Hi - Things are going rapidly down hill. I am praying, and changing. She's not 'in love'... My boys are terrified. I've told them we both love them very much, and will be there for them. There aren't any EA's, drugs, gambling, etc. I just don't 'make her happy'. I'm discouraged today. I brought the topic of our estrangement for the poast 2 months and she was very smug, finally admited she was filing Monday.
I can testify that prayer did indeed give me strength because I remained calm, and described my actions and intentions (study, IC, and action plan). I also agreed that I was not blameles, and offered several changes I'd demonstrated consistantly for over a year. No AO's, DJ's etc. I admitted to not providing adequate leadership in the home. I told her I'm not asking for an indefinite period of time but would appreciate 4Mo. to explore the MB process and IC.
She is very angery. Bad relationships all around in her family. Freinds not supporting her walking out....
I'll continue to demonstrate my commitement, but I'm feeling very down after sleeping not at all.
My boys are worth everything to me. Any advise, observations? Any possitive experiances with Separation?
Thanks,
MikeP

Welcome Mike,

I'm sorry that you are having troubles with your wife but you came to a very supportive,knowledgable place.

First,it would be helpful if you get yourself a profile which is a list of you and your W ages ages,how long married,when the trouble began,ages of kids and all that like you see at the end of most people's posts.That way anyone that responds to you has an idea of where you're at.

Now,are you sure that your wife(W) is not having an A(affair)? It is highly unlikely that your W of 17 years is just going to bail out on you for just not being "happy".People that have A's will lie right to your face so if you are only believing her because she said so,think again.

Do you have the book,'His Needs,Her Needs' by Dr.Harley.That would be a first step.Also,stay at this site for awhile and read,read,read.Read the posts and also read all the concepts here at Marriage Builders(MB).Then come back and post more and we will support you.

Remember,it takes two to make a marriage and if your W was unhappy,she had a *responsibility to talk to you about it and try to make things better BEFORE filing for divorce(D),geeze. But as most of us here know,many people that have these types of problems in their marriage seek out someone else to help fill their emotional needs(EN's) and of course that is NOT the right way to handle things.

You may also want to consider "snooping" around for information and by that I mean cell phone bills,credit card bills,e-mails etc to see if you can gather any pertinent data that would help you to know if your W is having an A.She will probably not tell you unless she gets caught at this point but you have nothing to lose if she is determined to go forward and file for D leaving you hanging on by a thread.

Take care.

O

Mike - ditto Octobergirl. Are you SURE she's not having an affair? What makes you think she's not?

Also, did you move out? Why? Unless there are compelling reasons NOT to do so, move back in immediately. Your boys need you.

Hi - I updated my profile. We met on a training ship, dated in Europe, and long distance. I think she thought I was a white knight who could MAKE her happy. Sporatic problems. Changing or no agenda. I admit I left the leadership of the family vacant, we haven't been succesful at saving money since having kids. No significant saving meens slow progress on house renovations - a major ET and status symbol in her family. The other major issue is she's trying to force me to move our family "Away", "somewhere Warm"... I've got 19years in with a major corporation, so the risks are major for me. Also lots of work in my field is being moved out of the US so I'm naturally cautious. I let this go on too long. I care deeply about her and the boys, but will do anything for the boys at this point.
I'm still in the house, not planning on leaving. She's on the couch... She's not mean, just feeling detached and without hope. Last year she spent months in major depression. Will not seek help. Seems better (able to function pretty normally, she's a bright and industrious gal).
She's trying to help her 71YO father (who she has issues with) who lives in VA near her brother. She's got a sister and 2 other brothers who she also has issues with. She's got a lot on her plate. I'm not sure anyone short of the Lord could 'make her happy'. I thinks setting goals and planning things ahead of time we could do much better. She's not much for negotiating, very facinated with the past. Distancing herself from the church...
Please share insights and advice, the boys are worth saving if everything else goes bad.
Mike

Hi again,

If we can,let's get back to the possibility of an affair(A).You skirted the issue so we need more info on what you're feeling about it.There seems to be a lot to contend with for sure.

No one can nor should be responsible for another's happiness.It just sets people up for failure unless you are happy within your OWN skin.This is where the focus should be for your W.Why does she want to move away? I think the premise of a warmer climate might not be altogether true.And you do have a lot to risk if you have been at your corporation for so long and she wants you to give that up.

I'm not sure what ET means for you? Why is how a home looks so important to W's family? What is that about? What happened last year to cause her major depression? Someone who is "clinically" depressed should be under the care of a doctor.She has never sought out professional help for herself? What issues has she with her family,are they significant here?

If she is still depressed and is not on any medication, then it stands to reason why she is feeling poorly and perhaps hopeless,hence filing for D, as if that would solve anything right now.It most likely will just make matters worse until she seeks help to understand what she is going through and why.

It is sad to watch someone you love drown in their own sadness,depression,guilt,whatever and it is also hard to know that we can only change ourselves,we cannot change others so if your W does not want to seek help for herself and her marriage,all you can do is let her know,lovingly,how much you care for and love her,want her to be happy and would like her to get help so she can be there for her sons.

So,if you have read the Plans A and B here on MB,then you shoud most likely be in Plan A right now and try to meet some of her EN's while you are both still at the house.Drag your feet about the divorce and hopefully she will never get to filing but we'll see.Read up on Love Busters(LB's) too and don't make any LB's if you possibly can at this point.

Continue to press for an answer regarding if she is having an affair and snoop if you must.At least you may find out why she is withdrawn from you and an A would definitely be a possibility.

O

P.S.

What do you mean "just checked out" regarding the possibility of an affair? How do you know for sure? Can you explain?

O

Thanks for your speedy and thoughtful replies.
She's 'checked out' as in not engaged with me at all.
I quite certain there is no EA. She is busy in the home and at school. I'd still stake my life on her honesty. She has broken with a couple freinds who chose EA's. I've not spent a lot of effort snooping, but it would be very hard to cover up. Seems like everything leaves electronic tracks.
It is very hard to sit relatively inactive while knowing a good portion of the answer. I feel couples counseling would by fertile. Maybe she just isn't willing to face some personal issues and wants to run away? I know her folks were hitters, each other and the kids. We had counseling on this topic 12years ago and it has not happened again.
On the Moving thing it seems like a destructive test - If I do it I'm damaged, can't fulfill all my potential. If I stay I can retire in 11 years. I could then move and work in another field.
You all are impressive listeners. THANKS,
Mike

Mike,

I don't know for sure if your W is having or had an A but we all felt the same way you do,such as staking our lives on our spouses honesty,and just because she is busy does not mean she couldn't or wouldn't find the time to engage in an A whether it's physical or not.We all believed our spouses even when they told us right to our faces,"No,I am not having an A".

I was a bit confused on one part of your most recent post,your W's parent's used to hit their children,is that right? What did you mean that you had counseling on the subject and it hasn't happened again since 12 years ago? Did you hit her or were your kids hit/spanked?

As for the snooping,it wouldn't be hard to draw up cell and telephone records online to see what calls may have been made by your W and if she uses the computer,check sent e-mails or even use keystroke spyware if you were to go to those lengths.Maybe even a PI if you were so inclined.

But,a woman or a man does not go and file for D or plan on filing without a serious reason to.And more often than not,from what I have read,when a person suddenly broaches the subject of filing for D without any warning and starts pulling away from their usual responsibilites in life,someone else may be waiting in the wings.

Is it at all possible for you to talk to any of her family members about what is going on? Maybe she confided in them or are they all dysfunctional to the point of not having a good relationship with them?


O

One other thing too to keep in mind considering affairs:

several people on this baord can attest to the "I love you but I'm not in love with you"(ILYBINILWY) speach which can also signify an ongoing affair.

O

Hi -
12 years ago we struck each other. it happend a few times. During Counseling (1st session I vowed not to, even to strike back). There was an incident or 2 when she struck me - apparently seeking a reaction.

Her family is pretty rough. Her dad struggling in grief (loss of wife, 2 sons losing homes...)He is a Christian and does love her and our boys.

I think with all the tragidy around her she's just facinated/seduced with the (false) idea of being in her own safe little place where she's in control. I think she's sick to death of men.

I'm envisioning years of turmoil and a certain level of damage to 2 fine young boys.
I just got an IC appointment for next Tuesday. If she does start filing, I'll have to counter, and engage her Dad and trusted brother. Her freinds tell her to get some counseling.
Wow - no sleep really hurts the spelling - Sorry.
Mike

Mike,

I am glad to hear that you are getting into counseling,even if it's on your own for now.Also,I hope it is suggested that you can get on an antidepressant(AD) while you are going through these problems.I am on one and it has helped a great deal with my severe emotions and depression,insomnia and weight loss in the beginning.

Well,I don't know what your W expects will come of getting a D but more pain and suffering.Does she talk about your boys at all and how this all will affect them? What do you think is her "safe place",is it being divorced and away from you?

I'm struggling here trying to get a sense of what your wifes main issue is.It's like there are puzzle pieces missing and it just doesn't add up.I don't understand why she won't open up,to someone about her being unhappy and when you talk about her being angry and smug,I just wonder if she isn't involved with someone else.She may be surrounded by "bad" relationships but that doesn't mean she needs to add one more(hers) to the mix.Wouldn't it be nice if she could break that cycle.

Anyway,hopefully you will get some other responses from the regulars here.One other thought for now.Does your wife want a separation? You mentioned the word in your first post.

Hang in there,try to do a Plan A to the best of your ability now and take care of yourself and boys.Keep us posted on how your counseling session goes too and if your W actually does file for D.

Take care.

o

Mike,

I have read your thread, and I have a few comments. First of all, sorry you find yourself here, but believe me, you couldn't be in a better place to try to save your M!

There are a few things you wrote that I'd like to specifically address:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We met on a training ship, dated in Europe, and long distance. I think she thought I was a white knight who could MAKE her happy.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Seeing what her "pattern" was of "meeting you" and dating long distance, IF I'M UNDERSTANDING THIS PROPERLY, then I'd be inclined to agree with the other posters. I would believe that she's probably having at least EA with someone she's talking to, either on-line or over the phone.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The other major issue is she's trying to force me to move our family "Away", "somewhere Warm"... I've got 19years in with a major corporation, so the risks are major for me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, this was a huge red flag to me......
My H has what I call a fear of success.... syndrome. EVERY TIME things were going well, he'd decide we needed to move, to get closer to his family, something or other - and we'd end up losing EVERYTHING and spend the next few years rebuilding.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She's....just feeling detached and without hope. Last year she spent months in major depression. Will not seek help. I'm not sure anyone short of the Lord could 'make her happy'.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here again, I see so many parallels with my xH!! You say there are "issues" with her FOO. I don't know how she relates now, but in our case, my H's family somehow has this ability to control my H. Even tho they fight like cats and dogs, whenever they tell him soemthing, or suggest some thing he "should" do, it's like he can't stop himself. HE JUST HAS TO DO IT!!! Never once considering what the consequences are to OUR home/family. This was even true when he was "unhappy" - and in between jobs.........he would complain TO THEM, and they told him he should just divorce me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> if WE were THAT unhappy. WTF?!?!

As far as "only the Lord making her happy...." comment: AMEN, BROTHER!!
AND - this is another parallel b/t our spouses as well!
UNfortunately, until she's ready to admit that to herself, OR the Lord Himself tells her that, YOU CAN'T MAKE HER SEE THAT.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Distancing herself from the church...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yup!! BTDT too!

Mike, know that you've come to the right place.

Please keep posting, keep reading, and learning. THIS IS THE BEST SITE ANYWHERE FOR GIVING YOU GOOD ADVICE ABOUT SAVING YOUR M, MAKING IT MORE THAN YOU COULD EVER BELIEVE IT COULD.

God Bless,

<small>[ February 05, 2004, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: lupolady ]</small>

Dear Mike

I just had to reply, I really don't have the time but I had to.
I too was married 17 years with 2 young children.
I now am a Kinko's having to use their computer for this, I used to have my own, in my own house, not anymore.
She too, was done, didn't want to try, just wanted out......Of course this was around the same time she started a new job.
Over the last few months of our marriage (end of 2002), she distanced herself, started saying she had been miserable for 17 years, then even to the point of saying it was now my turn to be miserable.
She was 35, did she have a pre-mid-life crises, some say yes.......she got herself in great shape, she looked like she was 25, then she said it was all going to be about her.
Then came the accusations of abuse.....she brought up very old fights, things before we were married.....how everything I ever did was abusive.
So I was thinking, I don't know what I was thinking?
Then I noticed, family pictures were covered up, there were no pictures of me up, anywhere in the house, this was about the time she started taking up yoga at her work, staying late to do that.....
saying no.......there is nobody else...........
So I am telling you, no matter how much you trust her........or trusted her......hindsight is 20/20.
Shortly after being serve a restraining order by her, to basically evict me out of the house, I found a checklist of about 25 things on this website....I think it was "How to tell if your spouse is having a affair".
Well let me tell you she scored 100% on it.

So here I am a year later....Served r/o 1 year ago, left my house never to return, withing 1 week of that she was introducing her co-worker/boyfriend to my kids.
Within 6 months, I had lost my wife, my kids, my house, my job, my self-worth, the boyfriend had moved in, and now I am finding myself going to court on Monday to fight the renewal of the Restraining order...........Do not let this nightmare happen to you, it sure sounds like their is someone else in her life..........and that someone else might just take away your family.

Hello again. THANK YOU ALL! It's good to have some interested and intelectual feedback.
Research I've found suggests that untreated postpartum depression after 2nd boy, depression from her Mom's tragic death, and perimenapausal condition may be a trigger and barrier to resolution. If so, and treatment is rejected I probably am in little position to keep family intact. I'm looking forward to applying the Harley's concepts when opportunities are presented. I'm working on a Plan A, and asked her to concider a period of several months to look at where we are, what we each want. Then How do we expect to get there. We can then look at the potential w/with out D and see what's best. She did maintain her composure, and did avoid AO, DJ, and payed attention. Previous smug attitude diminished greatly. She has been good with the boys and reports she won't use them against me. So - I'm growing loke a weed, stiritually, and relationship knowledge wise, but have no clue at to my destination. One day at a time.
THANKS for the advice to look out for myself and the Boys. I will. I'll also talk w/ my DR about medication.
Any wives who have made it back from this 'feeling' who can explain it' are welcome ot try. I think she's missing the point that it will not end a relationship, just complicate a fragment things. Heck - I'm way smarter than I was only weeks ago.
Thanks,
Mike