It's been a while. I haven't had anything to add of my own in a while, and my "advice" was unwanted so I decided to lay low.

Going to cut and paste here to save time, sorry if it gets disjointed...

XH and I met with son's teacher Friday morning. She is really concerned about the extent of his hyperfocusing, impulsiveness, daydreaming, said he is becoming more withdrawn, and not really depressed but not his joyful self anymore. He doesn't open up about school or friends... it's all gameboy and pokemon and yu-gi-oh and dragons and aliens and... all stuff going on in his head.

He's the smartest kid in class, getting all A's in above grade level work, the "star" Cub Scout with all the decorations... basically has no peers to interact with. He plays alone at recess. He talks to himself. He is hurt that his attempts to "help" others by correcting them when they are wrong is making them dislike him. It's hard to watch, having had a rough time with school (the kids, not the work) myself and being academically ahead but socially behind.

He is in a very good but very small public charter school. He really needs to have some interaction with kids his age that are as smart as him, is what I'm hearing.

He is the absent minded professor... can tell you 100 facts about anything, but can't remember to put his pants on after the fifth time you tell him. One day I duct-taped him to his chair at dinner to make him realize how often he jumps out of his seat during a meal. (He almost always stands next to his chair... always moving...)

more...

His gameboy time is limited. It annoys me but it's a great tool for getting him to get his chores done (no gameboy until done) and keeping him in line (first privilege to go is gameboy) ... even before he got his gameboy he would get completely lost in "battling" his opponents in his mind. He has played what he calls his "one player game" since he was very young... he jumps around, punching and kicking at the invisible enemy, having a grand time... alone.

He never sits to play unless he's buckled in the car. He never SITS. He moves when he reads. He stands by his chair when he eats a meal at the table. It is like an invisible force is always moving him. Maybe it is a chemical imbalance? I have always hated the thought of medicating children to make them "normal" but what if it IS a medical thing?

He is increasingly impulsive. Some kids will think about saying something, he will just blurt it out in class. The other kids go from their chair to the desk to turn in paperwork... he bounces around the room like a ping pong ball... eventually getting to the desk and back... in his own time. Disrupting the class.

He is horrible about correcting other people, adults and children. I tell him it is great to be so smart, but rude to tell other people that they are wrong. I can tell he thinks he is better than his peers. He says he is "helping" them by giving them the right information. I asked him how he would feel if someone corrected him. He said he would be grateful. *sigh* I told him that most people don't like to be corrected and they won't want to be his friend if he keeps telling them they are wrong. Even if they are. *G*

He is not interested in any kind of sports. Tried that. He is great in Cub Scouts and has all kinds of beads and belt loops, the "star" of his den, and once again he feels like he is superior to the other kids and doesn't really interact with them. I think he needs smarter kids to put him in his place *G* but the older kids don't want to play with younger kids. He is in third grade, only 8. He was tested last year reading at seventh grade level, and his math skills were around fourth grade level then.

He IS the geek with the glasses with his nose in a book. I love him just the way he is. But I don't want him to be as depressed as I was during the higher grades. He has the potential to become suicidal or violent. I know I can't shield him, but it seems like there has to be a better way or something I can do to help him with social skills. I see him outside, away from the other kids, carrying around a tuft of grass and talking to it... and I see the little girl who usually played with rocks and sticks all by herself at that age, and hated school from about 5th grade up.

There is no gifted & talented program in our area, and tuition-based schooling is well out of our reach. He is in the best school available to us, and I'm glad that they are giving him above grade level work when they can, and his teacher is concerned and involving us. I'm just not sure what I can do.

I'm looking into the public school system's Chess Club to see if he can join since he attends the charter school.

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I have looked at ADD/ADHD since preschool. He has always been more 'bouncy' than the other kids. He has some of the factors, but not enough or to the extent to be diagnosed. (I myself am just short of being diagnosed Adult ADD.)

I don't think I push him. I appreciate his eagerness to learn... so much easier than when a child struggles to "get" something. I am trying to get him to understand the difference between knowing something and acting like a know-it-all.

I think sometimes that my ex pushes him... no other kid in the Bear den has nearly the number of things done in their book... but if DS does them without complaint Dad probably feels he is just living up to his potential. I don't mean for it to be a brag when I said above that his reading, etc. is above grade level... that's just what his teachers have told me.

He probably sees how hard I am on myself in college and feels he has to be the best... but I don't consciously push him. I had a report card in high school with five A's and one A- and the comment I got was "next time let's see all A's" so I make an effort to tell him it's okay if he gets a B in Gym. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I don't want him to be just like all the other kids... I want him to be happy.

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Met with the teacher again this morning. XH is pretty much trying to make me the bad guy... he's messed up because of the divorce and of COURSE that was all my fault. *sigh*

The teacher really hasn't had much to offer in the way of advice... just going along with XH in that this may be about unresolved feelings about the divorce (three years ago)... we are going to try counseling (DS was very reluctant to talk to a counselor back when we separated) and see what happens.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Good Luck XPB. I think I have a "jumpy" child too.
Maybe there's another group of children with whom he can interact on his own level - perhaps homeschoolers. If you don't have the time for full time, perhaps some mothers will meet with you and your son for certain topics. It's a thought.

My neice has been dx w/Addhd. Her dad is a doc btw..they noticed she couldn't stop her "flow of consciousness" and how her thoughts would just hop. She'd be angry and very moody all the time and like yours...very jumpy.

she was taken by her dad to an awesome child psych (MD not phd) and they ran tests including blood tests and determined via testing she was classic Addhd. Experimented with one med, didn't do much. Second worked like a charm. She's making straight A's, is focused. Alert and even QUIET NOW. She's the best in ballet and her brain and body have finally gotten into sync. And my neice comes from an intact family with a great marriage. So your xh's arguement is stupid...as usual.

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To add insult to injury... he just had to get glasses. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> He thought he was going to hate them at first, then he got excited about getting them (we thought they would help him with his focus/attention in school) and now he seems bummed that they weren't the "fix" he was hoping for.

Finally got him to talk a little about school. You have to ask him REALLY pointed questions to get him to open up and talk about it. At first, the only kid in class he could think of when I asked him about who his friends were in school is one he has known since Kindergarten. He is actually the Kindergarten teachers' son. He has become the popular smart kid. My son is just the smart kid. "C" has lots of friends, DS feels like he has none.

He was REALLY hurt when the kids said that he wasn't smart, that he cheated and got the answers from "C". I guess to him it must have felt like they were taking away from him the only thing he feels he has that makes him special (his brain) and he was really upset about it.

So he is definitely jealous of "C" and doesn't think it's fair that "C" is smart AND popular, while he is smart and doesn't have a lot of friends. At the same time, he feels like "C" is his only friend in class... and the teacher said that "C" is trying to distance himself from DS to stay out of trouble!!

So we talked about making friends. About how sometimes you have to do what the other person wants to do (his friends have always been the ones interested in DS's interests) ... so if "S" is a person you'd like to become friends with, and "S" likes birds or something, and doesn't like Pokemon, do you think you could talk to "S" about what kind of birds he likes? Yeah, he thought that would be okay. He then was able to think of some other kids that are friends that he hadn't thought of before, and was starting to feel better.

This morning I told his teacher about the rumor and she hadn't heard the kids say anything... she was also really surprised to hear that DS considers "C" his best friend in class, as "C" seems to ignore him. Gosh, I hope "C" isn't only his friend in his imagination... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Classic ADD!!!!!!
My oldest went through all of this in grade school too. Frankly, I think there is a direct relationship between being particularly bright (Talented and Gifted) and having ADD. My oldest has always been top in his class - took high school Geometry in junior high, etc, but couldn't sit still, was always trying to "help" other kids, would blurt out answers in class without raising his hand, tapping his pencil on his desk, you name it. I used to pray that he would find one good friend. He would occasionally become friends wtih someone in class, but it never lasted for long before they became annoyed with him. I know you don't want to try the medicine, but I suggest you try it anyway. The first one may not work - so keep at it. He may only need the meds for a few years. No one likes to "drug" their kids, but it sounds like your son wants to be helped, somehow. I even tried the glasses trick to. I read every book about diet and allergies. Eventually I gave up and tried the medication. It did help. And eventually he didn't need it. He is a sophomore in high school now, and has lots of friends. he is invited to friends houses, almost every weekend. Girls call him now!
There is hope.
One last thing - I used to pray for him, daily, that God would help him sit still. After several people suggested that I try the meds, I finally decided that it was possible God was trying to answer my prayer, but I wasn't listening!

Boy! Do I know what you're talking about! My middle son sounds a lot like your son. He's 11 and in the 6th grade and struggles to get C's because he either gets bored or can't sit still long enough to pay attention. I do not medicate him. But I do give him herbal supplements. They help with his focus and attention span (Ginseng, ST. John's Wort and Gingko). My son, however, loves to do things with his hands (cook, anything mechanical, body work on cars) anything that occupies his hands and brain. When he was 2, he used to build things with Lincoln Logs. You could just see the wheels turning in his head.

Definately look into the Chess Club at school. When my son was in 4th grade, his teacher taught him to play chess. He still loves it. His teacher also understood how Dylan needed to move around and let him. He would let him wander for a few minutes and then quietly and calmly tell him that he had something interesting to tell the class and wanted to make sure Dylan didn't miss out on it.

And Dylan is always tapping his hands on something. I've thought of getting him drums but don't know if I could handle the noise! LOL

Good luck!

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Oh, yeah. I think I may have your son's twin.

Sounds like an ADHD child to me.

****read "Driven to Distraction" by Edward Hallowell. He is an ADHD/dyslexic psychiatrist with specialty in ADHD.

****for other info on links/websites, go to my son's school's website www.curreyingram.org

****if medication is ever recommended, don't think of it as drugging them out of their minds. Think of it as giving them another tool in their toolbox. My son was on Adderall. Is now on Straterra. This new drug does not help as much with focus but it helps more with attitude.

****pick your battles. If son has trouble sitting through a meal, consider the necessity of sitting. Will standing in one spot suffice?

****what would happen if the gameboy were awarded in increments for appropriate behavior rather than withdrawn when you didn't see the desired behaviors?

****get your school system to do a psychoeducational evaluation on the child. If he is in a public school, you may qualify for additional services.

****check into some of the private schools around you. There may be needs-based scholarships. But a private school is not required to do many things that public schools are required to do.

****read "1-2-3 Magic" by Mel Levine - behavior modification. Be consistent with it.

****See if you can find a book called "Parenting a Child with Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder" by Jane Hannah. She is the head of my son's school. Used to run an ADHD program at Vanderbilt University. His school used this as the textbook for a parenting class. It is a wonderful parenting book even if you don't have an ADHD child.

****seek out your local chapter of ChADD.

According to Jonathan Jones, director of Project Soar in North Carolina:

Nationwide, 66% of the children with learning differences drop out of school.

Nationwide, 75% of the children with ADHD drop out of school.

Get busy.

Also, check out ShwabLearning on the computer. And devour anything you can find by Richard LaVoied, "How Hard Can This Be?" is one of his books.

I have a 3 1/2 year old who fits the description of your son. I have been worried about him since the day he was born. He was born AWAKE and go-go-going...

There is a place in Plano, TX that I have been thinking about taking my son to because I too am leary of starting a youngster on drugs -- I would like to consider all of the alternatives first.

I have taken my son to a neurologist (he had a mild concussion). I described everything I had been going through w/son. He said they do not like to even think about a label until the child is 6-7 years old and then looking at everything. The one thing that the doc was even leaning towards was Asperger's syndrome. It is where the person is really smart but socially just not right. The person can have friends but doesn't interact like "normal" people do.

Anyway, just a thought -- but the Plano, TX place is called Achievement Plus. Drug-Free Treatment for ADHD and Learning Disabilities. Ad says, "In addition to our neurofeedback training, we are pleased to announce the inclusion of Interactive Metronome as part of our computer-based training systems. This new technology can train the brain to strengthen and improve a wide range of cogntive, behavioral and physical skills. The program improves timing, concentration, focus, coordination, reading/math and mental processing speed.

Oh, yeah, I'm thinking about just trying various sports (I have a feeling my son won't be into sports either) to see if I can hit on something that can be an outlet for all that energy. I'm not talking just your typical sports. I'm going to try Judo-type classes where he will have to learn focus and control as well. Gymnastics.

Then there is also maybe piano or something like that. I'm just trying to think of things where he will have to focus on what he is doing and therefore not able to just bounce around.

By the way, my son never sat in his high chair and still will not sit through a meal -- I have given up trying. I know that is lazy but people do not understand that you CANNOT get these kids to be still. I have had 2 other children and they are not like that. Oh, and my son isn't even really still in the car seat either. He is buckled in and does not fight it BUT he will always be swinging his legs or pulling on the seatbelt strap to the front passenger seat or trying to reach for something, anything to mess with. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

We pulled my now DD10 out of 3rd grade and W started home schooling her.

She is able to give her the level work that is a little chalenging to her for each subject.

She goes to a home school group once a week. Mostly for social interaction. Most Home school groups are based on abilities rather than age. She is one of the youngest in most things that she does but is able to interact with other children of the same intelctual level as her rather than just the same age.

She is much happier now than she ever was in school and doesn't have the stress of not being part of the popular croud.

Have you REALLY taken the ADHD inventory? Also, have you had his teacher do one?

It is hard to believe from what you have stated that this is not his difficulty.

My oldest boy is very similar. He has such incredible ability, but can't remember to bring his homework home. He is 99th percentile on tests, but is getting so-so grades in school because of attention and focus.

I would highly recommend looking again at ADHD. Although I don't know obviously about your child. You have almost given the textbook example.

Ensure that you don't 'NOT' want him to have it so badly that you don't allow it to be true. I went 2 years thinking, NOT my boy... he is too smart. Come to find out, now when he hasn't taken his pill, by 10am he is so out of sorts, that even his little brother will say, "Hey, did you take your pill?" He knows how much better he feels and interacts when he takes it. Although, it hasn't fixed EVERYTHING about his focus, he is so much better that he truly would be behind the curve without it.

Princess,
Sorry to hear you are having problems.

You son sounds like my nephew(x's sister's son). I wasn't around him that much, but remember he had some of the same problems. Part of the problem was he was super intelligent. You couldn't talk to him like a child, as he just kind of looked at you. But you couldn't talk to him like an adult either.

He also was very into computer/video games. Lots of time when we visited, he would not even say hello. He played sports until he got to jr hi and then he was too slow and too heavy.

He didn't have many/any friends that I knew of. WHen we were there, he never had anyone over. Part of that was his parent's fault I thnk because they were involved in everything, I mean everything, the kids were. The parents didn't have any friend's either as they stopped doing anything once the kids were born. In the 16+ years I knew them, we went out to dinner with them once. They would never get a sitter. I digress.

HE was diagnossed with ADHD and was placed on meds. Don't know which one.

Today he is a freshman at Syracuse Univ and is in the band.

I used to blame his problems, not being friendly, courteous, etc on his parents as they indulged him, but I'm not sure. My diagnosis was only seeing him a few times per year. Also my medical degree came from a bubble gum wrapper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

So check into the ADD/ADHD. It sounds like he has all the classic symptoms. Good luck!!

I was going to get him tested in the 1st grade. I saw all the DSM IV factors at home. I printed them off in a format that allowed varying degrees of answers from the teachers (almost always, often, sometimes, never) and gave one to each of his first grade teachers... and in return got letters insisting he was totally normal and very very against medicating him.

Well I was against medicating him anyway, I was just looking for some reassurance that he was the same way at school that he was at home (ie. it wasn't ME) as my ex wouldn't admit to having any problems with him during his parenting time.

It sounds like Dad and teacher are still against medicating except as a last resort (I am willing to try anything safe at this point!), as they are recommending counseling for him, grief counseling at that, when he's so obviously got all the ADHD factors!!

Oy. So do I need to find a psychologist, psychiatrist or just talk to his pediatrician to set up an appointment to have him officially diagnosed (or cleared)?


Here is a funny... we went to a pizza & karaoke party last night and the kids were adamant about NOT going up on stage... this is very unusual for DS who is a spotlight hog... so we made a deal and he went up and OH MY GOSH is he ever an entertainer. Sang too fast and kept getting ahead of the music, but belted it and wiggled his butt and just made the place laugh and cheer. BTW it was Tim McGraw's "I Like It I Love It" ... the boy just needed a cowboy hat and someone to help him with timing ... he is such a joy.

(He was ready to do another song but they didn't have "Play That Funky Music" and I wouldn't let him sing "Baby Got Back"!)

My son is 7 in the 1st grade. He seems to be very smart - 99th percentile - straight A's. He does seem to be a little antsy at times. I decided when he was 3 and playing gameboys and nintendo that he would also have to play some sports. We have told him in order to be healthy (which seems to be important to him)that if he doesn't want to play sports there will be no video games. He plays baseball in the summer, wrestles in little league in the winter and has decided to try little league football next fall. He doesn't even realize how much energy he is getting rid of not to mention that is is tall for his age and still not very coordinated. Mostly, I just want him to be a well rounded person and have lots of interest and that's what I try to teach him. I do often wonder if he should be tested for add/adhd. Anyway, I hope things work out for you and your son. You might want to keep suggesting different sports, you may find one he's interested in. I have to say, it really has helped my son's self-esteem. He won for the first time in 2 years of wrestling just recently. He was so excited it almost made me cry.

"Sorry" double post

<small>[ February 11, 2004, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: k57mo ]</small>

xpb ---

I'm gonna be the odd man out here.

I've heard of many children who do this in school, but were able to manage their behavior challenges without any drugs, in a home school program where school itself is removed from the picture. They learn styles of behavior based on appropriateness, including social skills. With a blend of play time, adventure, planned activities, and work with a parent (preferably) they learn skills that teach them to manage their differences, and the drugs become a non-issue. They do learn in an 'unschool setting' my older daughter graduated from a public school her Sr. year (her choice to make the transition from school to college) with a 4.06 GPA after 12 years of 'unschooling'.

I've personally had experiences with two children who are rx ADHD, and both were far better behaved after a year of home schooling where they were encouraged to choose their direction and follow it with a parent's help and encouragement. One at age 14 asked his mother if he could work for me in a construction crew - and she allowed him to work. He was an excellent employee, when I was injured on the job - he was actually the first one to spring into action and knew exactly what to do. The other one after several years of home schooling eventually went back into the public school system and is doing very well. He's currently sharing an apartment with a 'friend' and living in another city working on a construction job as a Sr. in high school.

Both are high level leaders in their circles, and very much socially involved in the communities/jobs.

In both instances the structured, planned schedule with 'education' being the central issue was actually burning the child out. When they were allowed to utilize a more physical form of education, they were able to not only gain control of their behavior, but also to find a balance between motion and education.

One of these two boys is getting a college education online (after working all day on a job), while supporting a wife and child - 3 months (he's 21). The other is planning to attend college pt/ft while working (he's 17). Both remain high achievers, and are very social, but both are very independent as well. Both boys are very close to their parents emotionally, but have struck out on their own with strong self-assurance.

If you want more info - email me.

Jan

You know, I know some wonderful home-schooled children. And I feel there is a place for that. But as a working mom who works because she HAS to, it makes my blood boil to think that I could have had that option if it weren't for some idiot man's choices.

I'm walking away from this thread.

I'm not putting that discussion down but it is a real trigger for me. It may not be an option for xPB for the same reasons.

The topic paralyzes me with anger and jealousy.

I live the life of the ADHD and have for years. But it is not safe for me to be here.

I had homeschooled my kids until my H left, and I too was forced to put them in school after going back to work. Three of my six kids have language learning disabilities. Homeschooling is a great option, especially for those children who don't fit into mold that public school wants them to fit into. Two of my kids were homeschooled through high school - one is in grad school, and the other is doing extremely well in college. For years my kids would beg to be homeschooled again, and they still mention it from time to time.

The child of a former neighbor of mine was "diagnosed" by the school with ADHD after his father committed suicide, and they convinced her to drug him. Of course it turned out he didn't have ADHD at all.

The public school system was not designed to handle diversity in learning styles. I have never been able to understand how something could be termed a disorder if it is not a huge problem in every day life. If a child has to be on drugs to manage school, but not home life, then there is something wrong with the school, not the child.