son been doing great in school, then a change. talked with teacher, son does not complete his work. falling behind, seems lethargic at times. spent time talking with him. brought up dad. maybe he would like to see him this summer. never thought I would hear so many F words come from my child mouth. this was a child who thought shut up was a curse word.

few weeks ago saw dad with OW, two of them together was too much for him to handle. son had heard dad & OW were M but deep down kept hoping it wasnt true. now the truth has hit him and he cant handle it. son has lots of angry for dad & OW. I cant write what he has said because X looks at this site. afraid if son did see dad or OW he would do something that would put him in jail. dad & son hasnt talked since 6-02.

we talked about public school, they have special classes for children who have learning problems. didnt put him there to begin with because of his weight. been working overtime to pay for his school but now need to spend time with him at nights. next year he will have to go to public school there is no other way.

when I think of what this man has done to our son. it makes me so mad. our son was honor roll student, never said a bad word. because X wanted another man wife he took away my son future. before X affair, son talked about college, working with computers. now just making it past the 8th grade a second time is hard.

has anyone had problems with older children having problems with D & then the other parent getting M to the other person who broke your home up. deep down my son wanted his dad back home, he wanted the family he had before his dad had A with MOW. that will never happen & son needs to accept his dad M to this woman. how do you do it without hurting your child anymore.

X told our son when he was 11 all about MOW, but promised him he would leave her alone & try to make his M work for him. every promise X made to son he didnt do.

My one son got into an argument with his father, and a physical altercation with his father, when the outcome of his fathers sexual affair came about. My son read dads e-mail to the other woman that was quite graphic sexually. This son, tells me what dad did was wrong. He I feel is finding out what morals are, cause he told me morally dad sinned. I said yes. And the youngest son is not doing well in school. This son and I talked, and all he wanted was all of us together. But now he realizes that dad is not the same. This son has lower grades, still honor roll student, but by a hair. I don't push him too much, according to the counselors I am to talk with him, and not push him. He hates this family is torn apart. And I have expressed my feelings to this son. And he has expressed his feelings to me. All my kids were so hurt, and resentful towards there dad. Except for one I guess. She hated me, and dad put a lot of garbage in her head. Now she sees the real picture. And I have had to set boundaries with her, and get down right mean. She needed it, and has to know that I am not going to be a woman that she can push around and call names. She knows the door is there, and if I have to I will kick her out. I have had to get tough, through counseling, cause my XH has really put some mean spirited thoughts into my kids heads. They are older. But now they realize things are the way they are. I show them figures, and facts. That is what counts. Dad talks, but is unable to show figures and facts.

Yes, the betrayer does wreck a family, wreck the childrens life, and wreck their once upon spouse. They show no remorse, or guilt. It is part of their plan. Sorry I cannot help you more, but I have faced many of what you have faced, and it is ugly. And painful!

I have a son in college, and my wife and I are not being accommodating to each other about our differences in opinions and beliefes. I feel that my son will be adversely affected by my pushing the issues with my wife. But I also feel that I am not setting a good example by letting disrespect prevail. I am brining up the issue of doing better at accommodating our differences, with my wife, but so far, not much progress. My wife, son and I are all pretty oppositional, if not clinicall ODD, so there is a challenge, and I suppose I should give it a little time. I intend to keep directly asking for what I am looking for. I intend to keep working on having my constructively worded requests, fereshly in mind.

I know 3 grown men whose fathers left their mother's for OW. All 3 of these men do not speak to their fathers. I think boys look up so much to their fathers to be the strong, stable person and feel so abandoned when their fathers leave.

Is your son in counseling -- if not, I would consider it so this anger does not fester and he doesn't turn to drugs.

Dad's at home, trying to work things out, so our situation is very different, but I have come to realize that the child's behavior must be the responsibility of the child, no matter what the child has witnessed. I got some very good tapes on child discipline called "Raising Kids Right." Look at www.kidbrat.com. One thing on the tape that was really encouraging was that they did a study of kids who were pointed out to them by teachers from each state who had been nominated as top teachers. Then the families were interviewed. They estimated that about 25% of the families had parents who did not come from ideal home environmnents. For example, one mother said that her younger brother died when she was growing up, her parents several times said things like "You know, the wrong child died" and she went on to become a great mother who resolved that every child of hers would feel valued. Your son's future is in his hands, and he needs to know this. It is not pre-determined because of the despicable actions of his father.

My son is opostionally oposed to counseling. I don't have another woman in mind, yet.

Perahps there are stragtegies to encourge my wife to be more respectful of my ideas. Ways I can suggest to her to be more accommodating. I have asked her how I can be more accomodating to her, because I feel I would like her to do better, so I also would like to set a better standard myself.

Perhaps a phrase, "I would like to help raise standards for accommodating our differences of opinions, and speaking in repsectful ways about each other's ideas."

Tonight I told my wife that I felt she was talking about religion in a way taht was critisizing me. There are parts of the Bible that speak to increased cooperation, rather than taking appositional points of view.

I am still in a stage of trying to make my requests clear, concise and non-emotionally disruptive.

A couple of great books to help you with your differences -- even when you have an ex that doesn't want to cooperate:

Divorce Casualties; Preventing Parental Alienation by Douglas Darnell.

Mom's House, Dad's House (forgot the author).

This divorce business is a huge undertaking without children, but even more so when children are involved.

The BEST advice I was ever given was to live my life the way I wanted my kids to live their lives. Thus, no wild parties, no yelling, no screaming, repect for eachother, love one another, and the list goes on. There comes a time when the kids do grow up and see what life really is like. They will remember your efforts to have a "good" family life for them and how you held them as a priority in your life.

All you can do is provide a stable home environment and lots of hugs and understanding for your child.

We can't worry about the other parent. We can do things ourselves for our children though. But if the other parent is being neglectful or abusive, then we have to take action.

Your son is reacting to this situation and I see it beginning in my five year old son. He dislikes the OW/W. Very much. Son will repeatedly say at very wierd times...like the idea pops into his little head that "he saw daddy push me down and that daddy didn't say the truth (his dad lied to him and said that son did NOT see him push me down hard but son was right there and saw it all age three)" among other things. I had a psych talk to him once and he said my son has a great memory...

They look up to their dads and want them to be strong yet kind and good. Heroes basically. When they do something like this it's horrible b/c they lose that shine and they never get it back. Like a permanent tarnish.

Boys especially see their fathers as weak in the aspect of having an affair. They realize their fathers have gone beyond the grounds of marriage and have committed adultery. At least the older boys do. My sons know that their dad was disloyal to his wife me, and disloyal to his children them.

In the aftermath of dads affair, the kids, had to pick up their heads and sort things out for themselves. In my situation, my X has put many things into the kids heads. If I try to say anything differently, they don't listen to me. See dad was the more powerful of the two of us, and I have lost. But God knows the truth, and one day the kids will see the truth.

So Far, I have not fallen into the trap of becoming a Wayward Husband. I am planning to ask my wife for plans on how to make the home more harmonious. Some of my wife's wishes are contradictory and oppositional, and create chaos.

For example, and these are intended as vents, not as a fair portrayal of the total relationship:

Our son totaled our 1988 auto, which was an extra car, in case anyone's car had to go to the garage, there would be relaiable transportation. The car is drivable, but the insurance company will not pay the cost of fixing it. So I found a car that I liked, $252 permonth, and my wife decided for this and that reason not get the car I chose. She did not really have a car picked out hereself.

Today, my wife's car's starter died, and she had my son drive her to work, because she is too ashamed of driving the totaled car. But she refused to get a replacement car. We have no car payments on any cars, and the three main cars are getting older.

So now my wife has created this disruption, and my son is driving her to and from work, and now my days off are going to be expediting her car repair, because my wife has decided to delay purchasing a car to replace teh totaled car, for this and that reason, but in the meantime she is creating discord.

I am getting tired of the discord. Of course she could rent a car, but she wants to save money, and create contention.

My son is oppostional, and my wife and I should be working to handle his coaching, but my wife simply has answers that amount to "Chaos is Good."

I bought sheets that fit the pillow top mattress she bought, but she won't use my sheets, and the sheets she uses keep popping off at the corners.

My wife has the idea that she is superior to me, because she reads the Bible and goes to church more than I do. My wife puts religious concepts ahead of family harmony. My wife brings up religion and discusses religion from a superior standpoint, preaching this or that morality, when me or other family memebers don't really want to hear it, and don't take the Bibel in the way she is thumping it. That is discord.

I am dragging my feet on some projects I should do for the family household, but it is tough to get motivated when I feel that I am being undercut.

But I intend to challenge my wife to come up with plans for more harmony, less disruption, and better budget management.

Today I expressed my frustation wiht the undersized sheets popping off the mattress, and my wife assisted me in puting on one of the sheets that I bought, that fit.

My wife and son seem to agree that a minivan would be preferable to a sedan, which would have lower gas mileage. So I shopped for Minivans, and found a type that I can work with, and found some for sale on the internet. I got one bill of sale faxed to me, for processing.

I have not yet developed phrseology for approaching my wife that she has a superior attitude.

Perhaps my wife has the idea that she can bring up any topic, at any time, and discuss it in any way she wants to.

Perhas I can say it is arrogant to feel that she can discuss anytihing she wants to, whenever she wants to, and otehrs should bow down to her selection of subjects. If there is a fire, OK. Otherwise, Ask for permission to discuss the subject first, and only conitnue the discussion, so long as that permission is not with draw.

Perhaps I should insist on a key phrase, asserting, "I would like to drop that subject for right now."

"I would like to discuss that subject at a later time, when I have had a chance to think through some issues. Should we set a time now when we can bring this subject up again?"

Control is important in a marriage. The feeling of control gives a feeling of trust. I do not have a feeling of trust in my wife, particularly in what subject she may bring up, with intensity, at any given moment. Overly intense complaining might be OK, if it can be turned off like a water faucet.

My wife's superior attitude might be easier to take, if I had a switch to shut it off. The other night, I said, "We need to stop talking for right now." a more cordial way to accoplish the same end, would be to say, "I am at a point of frustration with listening to ideas on that subject. Please switch to talking about something else."

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>