I am a fool. I refuse to give any more advice at all. I allow my boundaries to be violated because my boundaries make someone unhappy or angry. I feel I have no value unless I’m making people happy, doing what they want.

I am unfit for marriage. Absolutely unfit because I’ll even lie to protect my boundaries and emotional safety. Because I want to make the other person happy, I’m willing to do agree to almost anything.

Shoot I can’t even get divorced! I’ve been bullied into agreed to learning “how to negotiate.” Of course, as soon as I said I didn’t want to go to any more counseling, it was pointed out that I was unwilling to negotiate.

I’ve been miserable ever since I agreed to this negotiation. I just wish my h. would see how unhappy being married to him makes me and let me go. Let me do what’s best for me. Otherwise one of us will end up dead.

<small>[ February 19, 2004, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: greengables ]</small>

Listen, you have the right to "change your mind". Put a short time limit on the negotiation and then if you see no permanent changes, CHANGE YOUR MIND and GET OUT. Of course he is trying one last ditch effort to manipulate you into staying.....

ARE THOSE BOOKS GONE YET????

I highly doubt you'll be able to survive without giving advice on MB, and than what would you do with all that extra time anyway!

About agreeing to counseling for negotiating. I did this too - two years ago. With a mediator I agreed to this, and guess what, it never really happened. X was in charge of finding a counselor to work with us, and when the first person never called him back, he never followed up. I finally found someone and we did see this person - but only because I followed through.

Currently, X has requested that we go to communication counseling as required in divorce decree. I acknowledged his request and agreed to go. And I haven't heard back on it again. My old self would have made the appt. when he failed to do so. My new self says, let him take responsibility and see how far it goes.

So, left to his own devices, will B actually follow through and make the appt? I highly doubt it. So stop stressing about it and go on with your life. What you are doing is "forecasting" which means feeling the emotions before the event has occurred.

Consider the appt. making delegated to B, and you'll only need to go if he schedules it. And even if he schedules one appt., will he actually follow through for future appts? Remember, he thinks you are the one who needs to be fixed - not him.


Be the best person that you can be for yourself and your children.

Have a great weekend - I'll be in Vegas!

And isn't it your birthday tomorrow, Newly? If so, Happy Birthday.

Baba, do I really need to answer? Remember what I said about just letting my boundaries be walked over?

Newly, I may be forecasting. I'm feeling the misery of losing hope of getting what I need, fear of being thrown back into convoluted, intricate lifestyle that causes me deep misery.

greengables,

--I am a fool. I refuse to give any more advice at all. I allow my boundaries to be violated because my boundaries make someone unhappy or angry. I feel I have no value unless I’m making people happy, doing what they want.

TR--This doesn't make you a fool--it make's you someone who loves to see other's happy--and there is NOTHING foolish about wanting that--

but you know what--You do have value--even when NOT making other people happy--You can not make EVERYONE happy--it's impossible--sometime's they have to find that happiness on their own--within themselves--

You have value because of who you are in Christ--
not because you try to please everyone--So look at who God say's you are--the same as He say's I am--a Sinner that He loves--a person who will on occassion (many occassions for me) disappoint Him-
but He love's and value's us anyway--even when we disappoint Him---why? other than the fact He created us--I have no clue--but it is a truth--

Other's will disappoint us--we will disappoint others--is it our responsibility fix their problems?? NO!!

How are they going to learn how to find inner happiness if we are always trying to make them happy?? How are they going to suffer the consequences of their actions when we step in a prevent that from happening?? How are they going to grow?? They aren't---

God doesn't say we are always going to be happy--
or that we should always be happy or that we should always make everyone else happy--Christ Himself suffered--He even said and did things that made a LOT of people very UNHAPPY!! but did that matter to Him?? Nope--not at all--because He understood that their unhappiness would cause them to make changes in their own lives--

--I am unfit for marriage. Absolutely unfit because I’ll even lie to protect my boundaries and emotional safety. Because I want to make the other person happy, I’m willing to do agree to almost anything.

TR--This does not make you unfit for marriage--it does mean that you love other's more than you love yourself--because as you've said--you don't see yourself having value as a person--beyond giving to others--but you do have just as much value as everyone else--and you know what else--it's not selfish nor self centered to believe that--nor is it selfish or self-centered to expect other's to treat you with the same respect you give to them--


--Shoot I can’t even get divorced! I’ve been bullied into agreed to learning “how to negotiate.” Of course, as soon as I said I didn’t want to go to any more counseling, it was pointed out that I was unwilling to negotiate.


TR--there is nothing wrong with negotiating or in learning how--but their are certain ground rule's that need to be followed--and it sounds like your husband isn't following those priniciples--

--I’ve been miserable ever since I agreed to this negotiation. I just wish my h. would see how unhappy being married to him makes me and let me go. Let me do what’s best for me. Otherwise one of us will end up dead.

TR--If your miserable with the compromise it's because it shouldn't have been a compromise--it should have been a resolution to the problem--

I'm going to post some information--so that way you can have a greater understanding of what is going on---

GG, my horoscope today is fitting for many of us trying to better ourselves:

"If you take the time to take a good look at your situation, you could see some very positive things today. A while back, it was as if you had gathered all the tools you needed to make a sculpture of your life. At first all you had was a lump of clay, and then a new face began to appear in your work. That new face is the new you! All you have to do is finish all the details - or even start all over again. Now you know you can do it!"

You can choose whether or not to enmesh yourself in that old lifestyle.

I'll be celebrating my BIG 40 by flying to Vegas tomorrow morning. I'm not yet upgraded, but on the standby list!

Do you really think B will follow through?

GreenGables

I'm sure other would agree that your advice is invaluable here at MB.

Wanting to make other people happy is a good thing. The care that you have for other people is one thing that has gotten me through some rough times.

When things get rough, there's GG with either good advice and/or possitive support.

From the sound of things, there hasn't been any negotiation going on. Just giving in.

I don't think I've ever heard of giving in enthusiasticly so somethings missing here.

You seem to be a very strong person to me that is just afraid to stand up and maybe that's why things are taking the down side for you.

What I would like to know is what advice would you give yourself based on your post? I know that if I posted something like this, you would have to have something to say <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Did something bring this on or did you just wake up feeling like that this morning?

Thank you all. I just got off the phone with Penny who said many wise, and unpalatable things. That’s what I pay her for! And your post, Thorned Rose, echoed Penny’s.

There’s a real pattern with me not seizing on my own value, and not only my value as a caregiver/enabler. But I’m smart. Very smart. And not living up to my potential at all. And I’m totally allowing B to walk all over me. So I have chores to do in the next two weeks. File for child support and write a letter to Bill saying how I need the books out of the basement by March 1, or I’ll have them moved.

Discussing the “negotiation” stuff can wait according to her. First, I need to take control over my life and my home.

She put my life back into perspective.

And based on what she said about marriage in general and how hormones trick us into marrying, I left a message with my good friend askign her to promise to kidnap me if I ever think of getting married again. If being deprived of sleep and food doesn't knock sense into, I want her to shoot me.

It's really the best solution.

Good to have you back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

greengables:


--And based on what she said about marriage in general and how hormones trick us into marrying, I left a message with my good friend askign her to promise to kidnap me if I ever think of getting married again. If being deprived of sleep and food doesn't knock sense into, I want her to shoot me.

TR--No--that's not the solution--the solution lies in knowing what your doing wrong when your relationships begin--and changing those behaviors-

If I might--I'd like to suggest you check out the information on this website by Chip Ingram--

http://www.lote.org/

He's doing a series on Love, Sex and Lasting Relationships--it's really awesome--I sat in my car last night listening to him--and was like WOW!! If that wasn't me in the past--I don't know what was--listen to his recent broadcast--it really is an EYE OPENER!!

I had relationship stuff flipped backwards--

<small>[ February 12, 2004, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: ThornedRose ]</small>

WiwH,
My post crossed yours. I have no idea what advice to give myself. Probably I say “Get over yourself. So, you’re not perfect. Who is? You’re nothing special there. Now, get out there and try to improve upon your imperfections rather than wallow in self-pity.”

And I’d say “You made your bed. You can re-make it or lie in it.”

Thanks. Nothing like swallowing a bit of your own medicine.

Just for the sake of others out there like me, I’d like to point out that there is a big difference between caring for others and appeasing them. I’ve succumbed to the latter.

After I get back from my long weekend (I’ll be gone from MB until Tuesday), I’m initiating a job search.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> After I get back from my long weekend (I’ll be gone from MB until Tuesday), I’m initiating a job search.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Enjoy your long weekend. And even though I know the situation,
do you really need to add more stress to your life by changing jobs NOW!

I think you are being a little to critical of yourself.

Hope you have something fun planned for the weekend. And I agree with Newly>

Do you really need the stress of a new job. If your current job is a big cause of stress then it may be worth it but no matter how you look at it, a job is a job and they all have stress.

Maybe a vaction rather than just a long weekend would be better.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by greengables:
<strong> I am a fool. I refuse to give any more advice at all. I allow my boundaries to be violated because my boundaries make someone unhappy or angry. I feel I have no value unless I’m making people happy, doing what they want . . .
Shoot I can’t even get divorced! I’ve been bullied into agreed to learning “how to negotiate.” Of course, as soon as I said I didn’t want to go to any more counseling, it was pointed out that I was unwilling to negotiate. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Learn these magic words, "That's right".

What? You say-I need to learn to disagree, not agree. Ah, but the problem is, you agree with the wrong things because you disagree with the wrong things. All you need to hear is an accusatory tone and you want to disprove the accusation without reflecting on whether it really is an accusation. Take it from one who has been there and still goes back for weekend visits-that's an easy way to let others manipulate you.

So when S (oh, we hope)TBX says that you are "unwilling to negotiate", you say, "That's right." Or "Of course". Or, "You got it, Cowboy Bob". The exact wording is up to you. You are unwilling to negotiate with him any longer, as anyone with a brain the size of a walnut would be, having seen how negotiations with him always turn out. If you were still willing to negotiate with him, the words "psychiatric evaluation" would turn up more frequently in the posts of your friends.

So keep in mind-agree with supposed criticism, and you don't have to agree to do stuff to disprove the criticism.

Job search is necessary. Job is stressful and emotionally draining and bad for my self-esteem. Being disrespected and devalued at work is tolerable until it’s a family business. Then, it gets all mixed up.

And el, good point.

GG
A new job will be a big step in you moving foward as you. Perhaps STBX will see this and understand that you are serious but I don't think he will. My guess is that he will be against it.

Either way it is something that you should put your whole self into as your new beginning.

You and I are coming at this from different directions but our destination seems the same. Always know that your not alone and with a heart like yours you never will be.

elspeth,

I think you meant: "...The exact wording is up to you. You are unwilling to negotiate with him any longer, as anyone with a brain at least the size of a walnut would be..."

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ManInLove

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The exact wording is up to you. You are unwilling to negotiate with him any longer, as anyone with a brain the size of a walnut would be...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ManInLove:
<strong> elspeth,

I think you meant: "...The exact wording is up to you. You are unwilling to negotiate with him any longer, as anyone with a brain at least the size of a walnut would be..."

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ManInLove

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The exact wording is up to you. You are unwilling to negotiate with him any longer, as anyone with a brain the size of a walnut would be...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gosh, yes, you are right.

You can't offer advice or an opinion and I can't have issues and triggers. We could always limit ourselves to the Kingdom.