Wiffty,
Have been searching through readings on the net re your suggestion - implicit and explicit learning.

This is what I think...

I believe I have an implicit approach and understanding of 'family'. My own family background has provided me with many opportunities to learn the 'how to's' eg - child rearing, family unit, etc. Family life is an ongoing process and I learn lots as I go. I love being a part of it. I feel complete when I am with my children...Due to my nature, I also read many, many books on
child rearing, parenting and so on. But basically, I think my knowledge and behaviour come naturally due to my own experiences and understanding of what 'family' means to me.

On the other hand, with regard to marriage, I can see I need to take a more explicit approach. ie moving from the smallest parts to make a whole. Articles I read talked about being clearly focused, investment in learning in a meaningful way, responding and implementing what is learned and reflection and review.

So, I ask myself the following:

* Have my 'plans' been responsive to my husband's needs as well as my own?
* Does my 'talk' ensure my husband has been aware of what it is that I'd like him to demonstrate?
* Does my 'thinking' repond to my husband's needs in a way that suports his understanding and needs?
* Do I scaffold by demonstrated modelling?
* Do I provide explicit feedback to him and discuss this?

Clearly, I can answer "No" to the first one. No, I haven't been modelling intimate or affectionate behaviour or meeting his needs...He's basically looking for committment, contentment and happiness. This is simplified, of course! I can't meet those needs at this point and probably haven't been giving the attention to them that I should have since our children were born nearly 10 years ago.

2. I think we've talked - at length - about different issues. I'd like to think that I had articulated my issues.....probably haven't been giving the same time or consideration to his needs...too focused on mine, I guess!

3. Probably not! Don't seem to be thinking on the same level. Not sure how to achieve this!

4. No I haven't been modelling behaviour that I would expect someone who 'loved' me to demonstrate. My excuse - whether it be poor or not - is that I haven't been able to generate the feelings that I need to bring about the types of behaviours or attitudes necessary to show someone I love them.

So, the gist of the matter.....well, I guess marriage - unlike my understanding of family - takes a lot more committed effort in putting all the small parts together to make a whole. ie a couple.

Can I do it? How do I do it?.....

the reason why i am divorced is because my X told me one night that it was too late. . . so now that she spoke up, the reasons were also her issues. . . read my post about an interesting coupla weeks. . . just FYI. . .

if you want the article, although it discussed the learning in a different frame work, email me a whenifindthetime@yahoo.com, and i will email it back. Bt in the mean time, i have several observations that i can see where you have been living in the world of kids too much and not in the world of adults. (ps, a grad school prof explained this teacher stuff to me, as well as lving with a high school teacher)

First, you ask futuristic questions about trying again. i want you to read this next statement over and over again until you see it in everyday life, and people new to this thinking take quite a while to get it, because they assign personal meanings to random events. . . The future is uncertain and will always be uncertain. The present is filled with many repeating patterns an a larger that expected random portion of activity.

Second, you had a major implicit learning experience from your family of origin, FOO . There is where you were given your expectations of how a marriage partner and family acts. . . so there WERE qualities that your spouse had that you originally identified with, and he did not turn out in the future as you had expected him to be. and implicitly, you expected you and him to assume a similar marriage model to your family of origin, and that type didn't occur. however, implicit learning from before puberty is filled with improper and incomplete learning experiences due to you being taught with your parents' limited resources, knowledge and individual issues.

so in my opinion, your current issue is that you have now developed an ability through maturity to understand more about yourself, but also realize that your childhood plans have now been reached, and you are struggling with adulthood plans. now i was only given a glimpse about your FOO, but is suspect it wasn't as well balanced or unbiased as you remember it be. It never is. . .

my X probably also has very large shades of NPD, narcissistic personality disorder. . . as she has all of the signs, but is not totally devoid of feelings, but the ones she does are all for her own motivations. ..

Third, teaching issues, after being the leader of willing and immature kids, who are very respectful towards adult control, a teacher can be just like a high level manager when s/he gets home, expecting to run the house and spousal interpersonal relationships like their job where they spend more time. . .

when I asked my X about why she reacted certain ways TO ME, she always framed her reference as between a parent and a 5 year old. that was a very telling reason, but i certainly remember telling her that i am not a 5 year old, but an adult, and she would always look confused. . .

there is a great chapter about that in "If you meet the buddha onthe road, kill him" called the tale fo the power struggle. which i encourage you to read.

Finally, since you are regressing to a childlike emotional level, egocentric, you believe that you have much more power and control over others than you actually have. . . and that really comes from the implicit learning that you have received through your expereinces, and here you will learn to accept that as adults we are all individuals, capable of independent behavior. .. and to some extent non controllable. . . but leadable. . .

so you need to explore and really take your rose colored glasses off and understand your FOO dynamics, because right there, is from where your problems stem. . . (and for that reason, you can't see or EXPLICITLY related to their teachings, becuase they were assigned to by your random birth event) as well as your expectations and your expected levels of control. . . in your FOO, there could be codependency issues, enmeshment issues, emotional disorder issues, all kinds that you have no idea about, but learned many dysfunctional ones, and are now reliving them without even realizing it. ..

i too read about how i was predisposed to a statistic in a psychology book. . . i was predisposed to certain behaviors, just because of my family of origin and my learning experiences before graduate school. . . .. basically, you have a lot to learn, and more to lose if you don't want to pass these dysfunctional lessons on to your kids. .. as a very smart MD once told me, MLCs are many times learned experiences from your FOO.

wiftty

<small>[ February 26, 2004, 06:18 AM: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</small>

Okay! I'm still trying to get my head around your response.

Yes, I guess I do 'run' my household in a very orderly manner. I like things to be in their place, etc, etc,. Perhaps that is reflective of control issues but I see it as allowing me to effectively manage time, duties and responsibilities. Perhaps I want to have the 'perfect' relationship and hence why I'm constantly seeking the answers.

Not sure how FOO has affected my own behaviour though. My Mum worked part-time, Dad major bread-winner, fairly traditional 'job' roles, although Dad always shared household chores like ironing and vacuuming.

Very few disagreements - in front of us anyway. I remember Dad used to always tell Mum he loved her every day. Never remember seeing them kissing - I mean 'serious' kissing. Remember seeing them cuddle a lot though. Always made shared decisions about issues. Dad very protective of Mum (ie very supportive emotionally) particularly in relation to issues she had with her Mum.

Not sure how FOO has affected me in my relationships. You might have to give me some more specific things to consider here.

Knowing what you do now, if you were your wife....just work with me for a moment.... back when your relationship was breaking up, what would you do to 'save' it.... You have the advantage of 'been there, done that' experience so I'm curious to get an insight on how you would have handled it.

PS ...I read your post. Sounds like you've had an 'interesting' time of it. The whole divorce/separation thing is really hard in regard to the children. My aim is to try and keep it simple for my kids - hence the importance of being on 'good' terms with my husband - so that kids are as comfortable as possible given the situation. I relate to the support factor you're giving your daughter. I think its super!

PS Tried emailing you at whenifindthetime@yahoo.com re article you offered...but wouldn't send.

FOO issues, many times the qualities that you find attractive in your spouse are ones that you liked in your parents, but marrying one of your parents is not a good idea.

also, could the closeness you expect as modeled by your parents, as learned from observing your parents, what you feel missing that you can't explicitly describe?

as far as having children, i take that responsibility seriously. . . the are the hope for the future, and there are many different types of behaviors to model in marriage. . . problem solving, respect, unselfishness, negotiation, agreed independence. however, since my own personal quest here on this planet is to learn as much as i can to be as wise as i can, = be as smart as i can, i am always searching out the best for myself, improvements always. . .

as fas as books, you have enven begun to read the really effective ones. . . the ones that get to the core of the behavior, and the understanding of the psychological motivations .. .

how about the chemical issues of the brain? if you search on brain chemistry here, you will find out about how the feelings of infatuation, or what many an immature person interprets as love, is really a chemical release in the brain, that lasts only about 6 months. . .which is why the average affair only lasts about six months. . .

so the feelings that you had in your twenties should have died out a long time ago, and now you may have felt them again with someone else, or you may want them back. . .unfortunately, mature love is not like that. .

so go to amazon.com or whatever it is locally, and order these books:

1)If you meet the buddha on the road, kill him, sheldon kopp
2) The road less travelled m Scott peck
3) passionate marriage, snarch
4) His needs Her needs. from marriage builders.

good luck. ..

wiftty

You're right in that some of the qualities of my husband are similar to my Dad. eg practical, sensible, loyal, hard working. I guess I was looking for that when I was younger. Still need those qualities now but mixed with something a little more adventurous / spontaneous.

I realise that we don't have the same chemical feeelings as when we were first dating. That's not what I'm looking for because as you've said - and I already know - it doesn't last. Initimacy is developed on a level beyond that. Its like my Mum and Dad remind me of two parts that make a whole. They just seem to bounce off each other. Now that they're retired they spend a lot of time together and they really thrive. It's fantastic!

Will go in search of the books you recommend. Thanks!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">adventurous / spontaneous. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">so, you are not adventurous / spontaneous, but you want to be, is that right?

or

You were adventurous / spontaneous and now you are not, is that right?

or,

You were adventurous / spontaneous and now you want to blame changing or not being that way anymore on your Husband, is that right?


ok, first understand that you can act that way, but have to take into account how your spouse is going to feel about you and the situation. However, this is where i want you to get. . . you may want your H to act like your dad, he is not your dad. . .

however, you can still be who you want to be, you just have to be a bit more creative, and less expectational in your thinking. .. you must work and LEAD ANOTHER ADULT WHO IS NOT A CHILD WHO REQUIRES LEADING, and that type of leadership is much more work, much more effort, and much more rewarding that leading a group of small people who require leading or they will in effect, die. . .

organizing and leading a group of adults outside of a classroom is the anti-teacher. . . and often very hard for teachers, who are used to being in total control, to accomplish. . . those that accept this premise and understand this premise, actually don't get much enjoyment out of leading small, dependent children . . . . because the accomplishments for the adult are not very big. . .

thnk about it, and if your at first get mighty defensive, step back, and look at the world outside of education. . . and see that the rest of the world is all about adults interacting, and progressing together into the world of adult unknown. . .

my X's admissions on life: hates change, can't stand lack of control, wants to be right, and never adventurers into the unknown for fear of being wrong. . and does not want children to grow up, the antithesis of change or growth. . .

so do you want to grow up? do you want to lead other adults to grow up? you have to first. . .

wiftty

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2) you are approaching perimenopause, and you won't be the first woman to being to notice unexplained emotional changes. to some people, the slowly changing hormone levels change your outlook on life. . . go get a complete medical checkup and tell your doctor what you have just written.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wiffty, I luv ya, man, but I seriously CANNOT believe that you wrote this! Why is it that any time a woman is unhappy it's because she has a UTERUS????

formerly franklymydears but I forgot my stupid login/password! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi Wiftty,

Haven't been too "adventurous/spontaneous" ..want to be! Have been busy 'doing the right' thing...eg. following my plan, meeting my goals, making my parents proud, being a 'good' mum, keeping an 'orderly' house, trying to be a dutiful wife, doing all the things that i've thought 'society' has expected from me (expectations that I guess I have put on myself).....I guess, if I think about it, trying to follow in my Mum's shoes.

At my age, she seemed so content to be raising the family, working part-time and keeping the household running. She didn't seem to be suffering any MLC....guess I feel that I've failed to some extent because I'm not getting the same satifaction from the things she did.

Don't get me wrong...I love my kids and I mostly love my work...it's just that I'm really unsettled and it's hard to put my finger on why.

I certainly don't want to blame my husband because if he's at a place where he's feeling content..great for him. Guess I feel I bit jealous because I can't feel that same contentment.

I'd like him to come with me on the journey for adventure but he's 'happy' with where he's at. All these years I've been trying to explain that where we ended up isn't giving me the 'contentment' that I'm searching for.

It makes sense what you say about 'expectations'. Yes, when giving it thought, I had huge expectations of where I'd be as I was approaching 40 - probably not so realistic - and the sense of disappointment is overwhelming at times.

I can understand what you're saying about 'leading' but how do I do this without coming off as a 'control freak'...Wouldn't I still be leading to get to where I want to be? Is that still being self-centred? I'm finding it really difficult to establish some guidelines which allow my needs to be met without being 'ego-centric' ..I think you called it.

Here's another twist! I have said that I'm not looking for a relationship at present and I believe that to be true. However, went to dinner and dancing with a girlfriend last night - who is divorced - and got to talking...as you do!

Had a great evening but came home late and realised I was really missing a physical relationship. Now, you're probably going to shoot me down in flames for admitting this, but I'm being honest so I'll just have to bear the scars from your lashing.

I jumped on the internet and logged into a chatroom that my friend told me about. Sat up until 3am, flirting with a couple of fellows that I don't know and will probably never meet. Felt really good at the time ..guess because I haven't 'flirted' in many, many years.

So, help me analysis this - not too harsh though please! I'm already feeling guilty...if I want to make a serious effort at reconciliation, what am I doing flirting with men on internet???...guilt! guilt! guilt!

Need your practical advice to help me sort this one out.

Yes, I want to change...but does last night's behaviour mean I'm not serious about it? I do not have to be right ...I realise that to learn, you sometimes make mistakes - that's what life's about ....it's how to deal with the mistakes that's tricky! And I have no problem with being wrong....I can admit it and move on - and hopefully learn from it.

frankly my dears,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is it that any time a woman is unhappy it's because she has a UTERUS???? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">first, i do not respond to every woman being unhappy as having perimenopause as the probable cause. . .

second, it was a suggestion to investigate. . .

third, i personally know more than one woman to whom the little estrogen pill has made a huge difference in keeping the family together. . .

fourth, i have been very careful with this poster to use the socratic method. . . to give suggestions and possibilities, nothing more. . .

fifth, there was a person on this board who lived in the next town over from me, who in the end, came to her own personal understanding, that her MLC EA was mostly the result of perimenopause.

so the possibility exists, but you seem to have an issue with possibilities are absolutes, and suggestions for places to look as forgone conclusions. . . may i suggest reading a bit more closely, and a bit less personal on the gender bending? i for one, discourage gender bending as its a simplistic, visual assignment of blame to what can be physically seen a different. . . instead of looking under the hood. . .

wiftty

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'd like him to come with me on the journey for adventure but he's 'happy' with where he's at. All these years I've been trying to explain that where we ended up isn't giving me the 'contentment' that I'm searching for.

It makes sense what you say about 'expectations'. Yes, when giving it thought, I had huge expectations of where I'd be as I was approaching 40 - probably not so realistic - and the sense of disappointment is overwhelming at times.

I can understand what you're saying about 'leading' but how do I do this without coming off as a 'control freak'...Wouldn't I still be leading to get to where I want to be? Is that still being self-centred? I'm finding it really difficult to establish some guidelines which allow my needs to be met without being 'ego-centric' ..I think you called it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ok, you have to invite him, and then if he declines, you have to take the kids and go yourself. . . if you are in an EXPLANATION dance, where you explain, explain, discuss, etc, and nothing has changed, then you use the action route. . . you don't yell, you don't piss and moan, you very quietly plan, and then execute. .

you see, with a fully independent adult, he has the right to make up his own mind, and you can't take that right away from him. you can't be his master, nor do you want to be his master. . .

so, you must plan the spontaneous event, and then invite him to follow. . . if he doesn't, its his loss. . . but it doesn't have to be yours, you can do these fun things with your kids by yourself. .

second, if you are to make a serious attempt at reconcilation, then you must first, hang around with married people. those that are good role models, those that have the values to which you aspire. . otherwise, you will be thinking one way, acting another, and be very flakey in appearance. . .

third, if you want to reconcile, you must be able to learn to communicate without LB, without disrespectful judgements, and only about yourself. You must be truthful, and be open up to failure, because the future is uncertain. . . because people are uncertain in their reactions and expectations. . . but in the end, you have to give your spouse every piece of information to make his best judgement and to be able to decide to take the test. . .

how would you feel as a student if all tests were surprise tests on material you didn't know you had to study? its pretty difficult to even study for that test, yet, if you don't give your spouse the information of what makes you happy and what makes you unhappy, then he can't even take the test. . . however, after the lecture, demonstration is very necessary. . .

i fought for horseback riding lessons for my daughter with the X because all she saw was money, and what i saw was the interaction of the child with a 1,000 pound live, thinking creature that he has to lead, yet cooperate with, and that learning experience has been invaluable. . . and who knows what is to be expected, and you have to learn firm, but friendly. . .

the best revenge is to live your life the most fair and peaceful way. . .

OK, as far as your thinking about your parent's life, you are getting closer to understanding yourself, good work. . . and if you are done trying to imitate your parents, and are trying to live your own life, then you are finally growing up into an independent adult. . . way to go.. .

wiftty

WhenIfindthetime,

Have been giving your response some considerable thought...along with readings, etc, etc. Spoke with husband last night - who is keen to reconcile - and have decided to make a committment to the relationship.

I'd like to thankyou for your advise - whether I liked it or not - and for your perserverance in providing me with lots of 'things' to consider. It has certainly helped..and although I'm not out of the fog...I can at least see a light!

Thanks!

WHOA!

we haven't finished, really. . .

what is your plan?? how do you anticipate figuring out what to do??

wiftty

Not anticipating that everything will suddenly become clear....goodness knows, it hasn't been for so long, I'm not even sure I know what clear is.

My plan......well, firstly, I just got to a point where I felt I had to decide - either YES I was going to be committed to the relationship or NO I wasn't and would 'cut and move on'.......So, after tooing and froing for so long, I decided to just do it!

I felt that my husband is a really nice guy and deserves to be considered.... but most of all, my kids really want to have a family again. So, I have put aside my indecision about 'my needs' and made a decision....I will reconcile!....Yes, I'm still having moments where I'm thinking "Is this the right decision?"....but then I think back to what you said about not knowing the future and how things are going to turn out....so, I just need to keep reminding myself "Be Committed! Make an effort!" This relationship is worth saving for all the right reasons.

The Plan.......well, its still early days. Our first step is to make a list of all the 'things' we'd like to discuss and sort out. eg how we can develop intimacy again, etc, etc. We're still working on that at the moment. Next step is to try and formulate a strategy as to how we can work effectively on the areas we've both highlighted. eg weekly 'maintenance' sessions, how to commuicate better, etc.

It's going to be a slow process and we haven't mentioned anything to the children. They are used to seeing my husband at my house regularly (for cups of tea and chats) so I don't believe they are thinking there's anything else happening other than what they're used to seeing.

So, that's the plan at the moment! Probably seems a bit thin I guess but it seems like a good start.

If you have any advice to offer, I'd be happy to hear it.

yes,

first, the future is very, very uncertain. . . . that's what makes life sometimes so very unfair and difficult. . and other times nice and easy. .

second, using this web site and the information here, read SAA, Surviving an Affair. . . so that you each understand what the other has gone through. . .

third, take the emotional needs questionnaire for yourself and then one of your conditions must be that he takes the EN questionnaire, found on here, and then you are to meet and understand the differences between each of you. . .

the BIGGEST differences should pop out. . .
then you need to go back to your respective caves, and formulate a plan for MEETING your SPOUSE's top ENs, like the top 3. Now he has to do this also. . . or the plan fails because its one sided.

then when you get back together after a week, or a short time, you need to discuss what plans each of you have for meeting the other's ENs. then the discussion must come up with SPECIFIC steps of plans of ACTION!!!! remember, LOVE IS AN ACTION. . . NOT A FEELING. . . the LOVE ACTION generates feelings of undivided attention, security, warmth, fuzziness, sexually, etc in the othe other person, but SHOWING LOVE IS AN ACTION. . ( somehow, i forgot to include this point in our previous discussions.)

If you want to debate this concept, we can do that also. . . any time you want. .

Then the other spouse has to agree that the plans are valid, and acceptable. . . which leads me to the concept of POJA, which is your final lesson towards PLAN implementation. this final point will move you forward or keep you stuck. . .

you need to BOTH read up on the concept, chat about the concept here to get the hang of it. . as there are some subtlies, as it involves negotiation, which many people have not learned, because of controlling parents. . . and then you need to put that into implementation as the final step. . .

so, relationship students, your assignment is to develop a mature adult level, interdependent, relationship rescue plan, that both of you agree upon, but only you execute your part, and only you are responsible for your part. . .

you have one week, this is the first semester's final exam. . . type neatly and use spelchekr pleez

wiftty


finally, after you have a plan on how to meet each other's needs, and that may take more than a week or so, especially when behavior modification is required.

Wiftty,

Lol! I like your candour and your humour...keeps me smiling!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So, here's what I've got organised.....printed out copies of EN as you suggested....will be discussing that tonight, meet back next week. Also printed out copies of Love Buster's questionnaire to consider as well. Feeling confident!!!

Now, the POJA concept....where can I read more on this? Is there a site I can get onto...I know you gave me the site which determines what personality type...I still have that.....but is there something further I can read to help decipher the code?? Might need some further coaching in this..


I like the term 'Relationship Rescue Plan'....it encourages goal setting and action strategies(and I know you'll probably groan about that...but hey, I'm happy working towards something and a 'plan' allows me to do that)

So, big night tonight! Will keep you posted as to how 'things' go.

Thanks again for your time, perserverance and guidance! Much appreciated!

right here on this web site is everything you need to know about how to have a successful relationship.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html

click and go. . .

now the concept sounds easy, but its to respect the opinion of the spouse, and after awhile, ask some questions here, its actually quite easy.

the best one for this is Starfish. . . she figured out how to use it, i have not had any luck using it much, since i found this after my X went mad. . .

wiftty

<small>[ March 08, 2004, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</small>

LB ALERT!

DISRESPCTFUL JUDGEMENT ALERT!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and I know you'll probably groan about that... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">a typical controlling, manipulative statement to preface something that you want. Do you think you know more than you do? trying to soften the impact of your choice. . . yet assuming something about me that you don't really know??

try leaving out the assumptions, termed disrespectful judgements, on other people, give them a choice of their own response, and allow them their own independence of thought and mind.

kelly, you have alot to learn about yourself and how to be a respectful person with an equal in a committed relationship . . .

read up on DJ, and notice when you make them. . .

wiftty

Wiftty,

DISRESPCTFUL JUDGEMENT ALERT!
quote:

and I know you'll probably groan about that...

a typical controlling, manipulative statement to preface something that you want.


I'm not trying to get "what I want"...I'm trying to cope with the 'guilt trip' of working out the fine line between making plans and goals as opposed to your definition of being 'controlling'....I have let you make me feel that being organised and setting goals can be a negative thing.....but you know what...it's just dawned on me that it's okay to have goals, make plans and work towards achieving them. That quote had absolutely nothing to do with manipulating anyone....in fact, it has just allowed me to become smarter and realise that you've been trying to manipulate me! Every time I've mentioned anything about setting goals or making plans, I’ve felt you're judging me - setting me up as some sort of 'control freak' and finding a way to link it to my role as a teacher.


Do you think you know more than you do? trying to soften the impact of your choice. . . yet assuming something about me that you don't really know??

You want to talk about making assumptions about people….let me quote some of your classic statements over the past few weeks……….


"so you don't want to change your behaviour.."
"you have been living in the world of kids too much and not in the world of adults..."
"being the leader of willing and immature kids, who are very respectful towards adults control, a teacher can be just like a high level manager..."
"regressing to a childlike emotional level, egocentric, you believe you have much more power and control over others than your really have..."
"you haven't even begun to read....the really effective ones..."
"teachers are used to being in total control, to accomplish...don't get much enjoyment out of leading small, dependent children....because the accomplishment for the adult are not very big...."

These are just some of the examples where you have been making ‘assumptions’ about me….comments which reflect you don’t know me but are happy to judge me or make assumptions. Let me give you some advice, read up on the effective use of “I” statements……

If I didn’t want to change my behaviour, then I wouldn’t be on this site or reading books, or continually reflecting upon what I can do to be a ‘better’ person..
..You have very little idea about teaching …….the comment about not getting much enjoyment from teaching small children is a load of b******t and has made me realise that your problems from your own marriage mar your judgement about teachers. And I’m not getting into a debate about it with you because we are NEVER, EVER going to agree!!....In fact, I have very little interest in talking to you about teaching or anything related to teaching because you have a very narrow mind on this subject.

..You have no idea what books I’ve read or haven’t read…you’re just assuming the ones you’ve read or suggested are more “effective” than what I have read….. That’s a classic example of a ‘poor’ assumption!


try leaving out the assumptions, termed disrespectful judgements, on other people, give them a choice of their own response, and allow them their own independence of thought and mind.

You want me to think about 'disrespectful judgements'....Sure, I can do that, and I can accept that I have and probably will continue to make them every now and then (because I'm not perfect!!).......But don’t offer me advice when you’re not giving me the same respect to have my own independence of thought and mind!

I did some research on DISRECPTFUL JUDGEMENTS..... "force our spouse to give us what we want", "straighten out spouse", "imposing a system of values and beliefs on the other"..... I have no doubt that I’ve done some of these things throughout my marriage….however, I’m not trying to FORCE my husband to do anything at the moment….other than consider the information I’ve made available and allow him time to decide what he would like to do (ie discuss things further with a possibility of reconciliation or just remain friends)


kelly, you have alot to learn about yourself and how to be a respectful person with an equal in a committed relationship . . .

I have no doubt I have a lot of learn…..that’s what life is about……but as to being a ‘respectful person’….well, maybe I should have just been more honest with you as to some of the hurt and anger some of your comments have had on me. Don’t get me wrong, at times, you have give me some excellent questions to consider….but you also make a lot of comments which don’t reflect an understanding of ‘respectful’.

I don’t need you to be making assumptions about WHO I am or WHAT I have to learn. If anyone has been treating someone like a child, it is you who has been putting me in that role. You didn’t like your wife doing it to you and I don’t like you doing it to me.

I think our conversing has come to an end…because I believe I have outgrown your advice ….……I’m feeling more confident and empowered with how to approach my life and my relationships. I am a strong person who has a lot to offer. And yes at times, I am egocentric…..but guess what….I don’t think that’s all bad……Yes, I will continue to be organised, make plans and goals and take charge of my life…..and if my husband wants to join me in that journey, great!.......if not, I know I am going to cope and have a fulfilling life………Does this mean I’m saying “It has to be all my way”…..NO!!! Don’t make any assumptions!!!!

Best of luck with your own relationships!! I won’t be conversing with you again…as I’m moving on!