I did want him to see the paperwork, cause I fell into the old habit of showing him anything before I mailed it, before I did things. It was the way of our marriage for 25 years. I couldn't do anything without his okay. And I thought this being a particularly serious matter, that I what I filled out on the paperwork, which was not a lie, that he should see.

Oh, by the way, X did e-mail me, and again, he is demeaning me again. Telling me that I created a lie. That I did not tell MB the truth. Let him tell his truth. He repeated to me here, and if I had a tape recorder, he did the transaction of the phone. Yes, it was for the barn and the house. But did he have my okay, no, just used my name and SS# cause he has bad credit.

I will tell people here, cause he wrote in the e-mail to tell you all, that yes, he put in a new toilet, which I did post before. Yes, he tried to let my son let me use his printer. But the son is not happy with that situation. We have a printer downstairs for all the computers to use, and it is broken. So I thought, maybe I will just buy my own printer. Yes, he has paid finally the childsupport just 2 days ago and alimony. Which everyone knows, that I have had to fight and fight for. We even went to court. And yes, he did put in the e-mail, that if I were to turn this paperwork in, he will not have anything to do with me, he will have the kids against me, and he will not give me another penny. He said, I can go to all the courts in the system, and he won't give me another penny. And yes, he did say he called me names, but of course I provoked him.

I see where there is nothing here that he is responsible for. It is all because of me again. The same rhetoric stuff. But I can see, that he didn't address his girlfriend in the e-mail. He made sure to hit all the rest of the post that I posted except for the girlfriend.

More of the threats to me. If I don't do his way, he threatens me. Cutting off my alimony and childsupport. Cutting the kids off of connection with me. Is this a man that cares, no. Is this a man that is sound, no. Is this a man that has GOD in his life, no. I am praying for him. He needs GODS help.

Like I said, he watches everymove on MB for my threads. And he is out to get me. I only told the truth, and that is all. He acts scared, so if he is, then he is the one that has committed sin.

I am leaving shortly, to have a good day, and get away from here. Later I am doing something with my boys. Time for me and my boys. The roads are kind of icy to day. The rain yesterday froze overnight, and there are quite a few accidents on the road. I will be so glad when spring has sprung.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

OK, I'm back. Gonna try again........ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I thought this being a particularly serious matter, that he should see.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Faith,
THIS IS A SERIOUS MATTER!! This is a FELONY
Just call the dam* cops and let them go arrest him.......
THIS IS FRAUD. He is out to destroy your credit.....he is out to USE YOU for your credit, or get whatever he wants, and then browbeat you into accepting it whenever he is caught!

Yes, he went ballistic when you confronted him. HE IS WRONG!!! AND HE GOT CAUGHT BREAKING THE LAW.
First the rental car and now the phone? WHAT ELSE will he "purchase" with your SS#???? He is going to keep this up till you take action, OR you put a stop to it because YOU get in trouble for all the bills HE isn't paying!

CALL THE AUTHORITIES.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> X did e-mail me, and again...Telling me that I created a lie. That I did not tell MB the truth. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, SNL, or SUDFUD or whoever you are...........YOU tell us the truth, then if your xW is lying...........

We are all waiting to hear "the truth." We'd LOVE some "truth" here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He said, I can go to all the courts in the system, and he won't give me another penny. If I don't do his way, he threatens me. Cutting off my alimony and childsupport. Cutting the kids off of connection with me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, Faith, this is a flat-out LIE designed to intimidate you and get you to back down again.......

He CANNOT refuse to pay his court-ordered alimony and/or child support. I mean, he can, BUT IF HE DOES, HE CAN BE THROWN IN JAIL FOR IT.

He is simply lying and intimidating you into submission so you will back down and leave him alone to continue doing what he's doing, lying to you, frauding you behind your back, stealing from the phone co. etc., AND YOU WON'T DO ANYTHING CAUSE YOU ARE "AFRAID" HE WON'T GIVE YOU THE *PITTANCE* HE IS COURT ORDERED TO GIVE YOU.

B***S**T on him! (And that don't stand for Betrayed Spouse).

CALL THE AUTHORITIES AND GIVE THEM ALL THE EVIDENCES OF HIS FELONY FRAUD THAT YOU'VE GOT.

<small>[ February 21, 2004, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: lupolady ]</small>

Lupolady - I am scared <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> and yes I know how he uses his actions to get me into submission. I have someone that I can talk to. If ever I need someone, I have the womens resource center I go to, and my counselor there said they can set up a time for me to talk to someone with these problems. I guess I will talk to them. Plus all the hospital bills that X won't pay, cause he tore my rotator cuff, and won't pay the bills. Yes, I am scared, but I am leaving shortly to get away from my house. I need time away, and I will be back, to go to the library for working on my paper.

Lupolady, I do feel this man is a scared person, caught in the act of deception. I really don't understand why he has to lie so much, and why he can't be honest with me and with the MB people. Off to get things done. Bye.

Faith. He IS doing exactly what I said he was doing. I see the desperation and the desire for him to have a spiritual awakening and become the man you want him to be...But that is between him and God only. What worries me is you continually mention..."WHEN DOES THE WS DO SUCH AND SUCH AND THE BS DO SUCH AND SUCH." You're no longer spouses ok? I know you love him still but it's not real love ok? It's dependency. He's what you've known for 25 years. You haven't known any other man YET and when you do finally, you'll move on quicker as I have.

You'll realize that we don't need their lies, their temper tantrums, their irrationality anymore. And that we deserved better in the first place. Did you ever read Dobson's LMBT? Whole section on excuses WS give for leaving their spouses..One was the "i never loved you" lie.

You've got to seek a printer elsewhere. It is a control issue on your side too. I see the anger fly right outta you when you think he's been seeing the OW. And he sees your rage here as you write it for us to see. Is that either good with plan A or B? Or MB? It is LB'ing. Personally I don't know if you desire reconciliation or if you just want him outta your life. Personally I think if he walked thru the door today as is, and asked to come home and get remarried you'd do it in a heartbeat. Be true to yourself. If you want him back, you'd better try better than this but personally, I wouldn't want anybody like that at all in my life again. No sir. And I know you're subconscious wants to use HIS printer at HIS house on HIS COMPUTER so you can see and hear if OW is back on the scene.

My suggestion? Go to the library. If you lived here I'd let you borrow mine. You don't have any boundaries with your xh b/c you ask to get in his house just like he asks to come over to yours. Boundaries are boundaries. My xh has not ever been invited in and isn't. If I needed a new printer despite he has a whole office of about ten or twelve computers and printers, I would rather go to the library or pay and go to Kinko's around the corner first.

Your sitch with your x is like this now...Pretend you're at a fancy casino. You are at poker table(I know this b/c Jethro used to play blackjack so much at Atlantis in the Bahamas and sometimes I'd watch them play poker). That's like you after everybody is dealt their cards, flipping yours over and saying "I bet nobody here can beat this hand..ha ha." You're giving your life away, your strategies away with regard to any unresolved debt, bills, and your mindset and what sets you off and makes you angry and what doesn't. He can easily push your buttons because he is READING HOW TO DO IT EXACTLY ACCORDING TO YOUR WORDS. He even told you to "tell the MB people the truth about the phone". See?

Realize that if you're divorced and if adultery was an issue leading up to it that:
THERE PROBABLY IS AN OP.

Nothing we can do about it. Unless they did a complete 180 and wanted to change and come home.

My question is when are you going to do the 180? And do it for yourself, not for him. If he's outta your life why do you get infuriated that HE'S TALKING TO HER AGAIN. ??? I don't get it. My xh is remarried and sure, it's crappy b/c they lied, cheated and did everything unholy to get to this point but I don't get mad that he's sleeping with her. What's one more f at this point? Nothing to me. I am more concerned with the fact it's me taking cold showers than him sleeping with his former mistress.

Maybe this time last year or even 2 years ago I was like this..
"how could you be sle eping with her or seeing her after all we did? How could you. I bet you were on your cell with the OW."

Now it's like this:
"Oh well. You got yourself into this now. Your deal not mine."

It's like you are in a classroom where there's this bad little kid scraping his fingernails on the chalkboard making a horrible screech. You yell at him over and over "stop it. stop it. Can't you see what you're doing is making me crazy? Quit it ok?"

Well instead of doing that now, two years after the fact, WALK OUT AND AWAY FROM THE ROOM WHERE THE KID IS SCRAPING HIS NAILS ON THE CHALKBOARD SO YOU CAN'T SEE IT OR HEAR IT ANYMORE.

That means no more going to his house for silly reasons. His not getting in your house for silly reasons. Locks in door. Because you have children together, there will have to be some communication but do as I've tried to do (and yea, he's sucked me back in trying to find stuff about my life but that's BECAUSE HE'S HEARD NOT A THING AND WE DON'T HAVE THE SAME FRIENDS OR GO IN SAME CIRCLES SO HE'S IN THE DARK)and just deal with the kid issues or specific issues regarding the settlement of unresolved financial issues and that's so you can move on.

And for God's sake, don't use YOUR posts here to explain his dilemma and give his lame apologies for what he's done to you financially. If he wants to post about what he's done, then he'd do it. But he pretends he's not that poster and he doesn't want anybody to really know who he is and just pops in and out giving random advice that's foggy. You're enabling him when you do it.

He's a big boy. Let him come forward, say who he really is and explain his stuff if he wants to.

In the meanwhile, leave him alone and get outside today and enjoy the beautiful weather.

We also keep you in our prayers ok? I know you will make it. You have a good future ahead. Think to yourself when you're outside "the future's so bright, I gotta wear shades." remember that 80's song? Have a good day and EXORCISE THIS DEMON FROM YOUR LIFE ONCE AND FOR ALL...or commit to doing a flawless plan A and the divorce busting 180 if you decide within your heart and soul that you want him back.

I am praying you make that good decision regarding that ok?

Moved per request, my apologies; trying to be helpful.

<small>[ February 21, 2004, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: F4me_exH ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by F4me_exH:
<strong> You folks...need a reality check, if you expect to be of any use to faith4me in her recovery.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a given, but we are trying to be loving, caring and gentle w/her.

I don't think we'll ever get to the total reality of this situation.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very little that she posts is accurate, she seriously distorts the facts frequently, and regularly omits key information....she also rarely posts her contributions to our various altercations. Her goal is to be a victim....many of you recognized this long ago, made efforts, and eventually gave it up as a lost cause, as have I.....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>
I believe you.
I have always suspected this. AT LEAST 1½ years ago, I recommended to both of you that you stop this insane "dance" you do together.

I have tried to make this apparent by veritably shouting her down to DO something, rather than continue to complain if it's "all that bad."

Since she does not, I have no choice but to conclude that what you are saying is true. I have known "victim mentality" poeple before (I work with one now - in fact), and I reconize the symptoms. VERY difficult to get them to stay in one spot long enough to admit to any wrong-doing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>If I was even 1/2 the man my exw claims I am, my kids would have nothing to do with me....yet she is the one with all the problems with the kids...that ought to make you wonder. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can see this, too.
She is constantly complaining about having to FEED all these kids!! I have repeatedly told her to have them all go get JOBS and buy their own food!

That's how it went in our house once the kids were out of school and of age.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> re coming to the house, we made an agreement, she could stay in the house, and I would come and go for business and children reasons....or we would buy her a house and she could move, and I stay with the kids.... her choice...she chose to stay. I am there very little, and many times I am fixing or helping her with something, but you don't hear about that.....nor do you hear about the phone calls to me to pick-up some milk or something and bring it by.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, we DO hear about it......she DOES tell us she asks you to bring food by. She intimates that she does not have enough food to feed the veritable army that stays at the house. I don't "get it." I never "got it" - and I suspected she was calling to get you sucked back in, so the "dance" could continue.
The fighting, the disagreements, etc. All under the guise of "needing" your money for food.

IF you are telling "the whole truth" - then all my suspicions are correct. For your own sake, then, you should stop the dance, and get off the ride.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>....you people have no idea how vicious she can be be. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THEN WHY DON'T YOU BE THE FIRST TO GET OFF THE MERRY-GO-ROUND??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I get it now, she wants nothing to do with me, and I will oblige her just as fast as I can...but I do find all her "contacts" confusing, if that is what she wants.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would whole-heartedly agree with this statement.
Why not TRY to "Total No-Contact" thingy? Put her on a Plan B of sorts.

If nothing else, it will show who is the real intruder.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't, won't have any more to say, there is no reason or point....but you might keep in mind when you only hear one side of the story, and your advice may do more harm than good.....and work real hard at getting the complete facts, ask lots of questions, before your kneejerk reactions. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>

Thank you for stepping up and telling your "side of the story."
In truth, this is how it started last time.....when both of you began posting back and forth, till the Moderators had to finally banish both of you from the boards for a time.

I hope it doesn't come to that.
I know there are many well-intentioned people here. Many kind, good-hearted people who only want to help both of you heal from this devastation.

How would you suggest we "help" Faith heal? WHAT would be useful for her healing? We have tried explaining that this contact between both of you is counter-productive to growth. It's just more of the same that was your M. You stated as much yourself.

HOW can she grow when she does not want to change? HOW are you changing and growing? What are you showing her that indicates you are "moving on" and healing? Just some more food for thought.

Thank you again for your response.

<small>[ February 21, 2004, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: lupolady ]</small>

Moderator needed - I checked and Xhusband is posting. I see he made a new name just for this post. I would appreciate if I had a place to vent, and he would stay off my thread. So please could you do something about this. I stay off his threads.

As far as defending myself, there is nothing to say. Each and everyone of you decide for yourself. All I know, is XH and we all know your real name here on MB has violated the rules. You are to stay off my threads and I stay off your threads. Please abide by the rules. Your anger shows in so many ways, with your posting, with me posting, and now you have done the one thing that you are not to post on my threads. Good bye XH.

Uh...seems you've left alot out. Alot.

You're both actively engaging one another.

I have a question.

At this point, what in the heck does MB principles have to do with your relationship with x?

You've NOT detached. I see alot of stuff now and although I believe he's about the financial end and still alot of ego there about stuff, he did give some insight and there is a huge difference in what you have said and what he said.

What I am concerned with is your moving on. You went to eat with him? Out to dinner? And you want him out of your life? I don't get this at all.

Please let me know and others here if you are going to make some steps to just move on. Positive personal stuff and no more about him. If you don't want to move on, then be honest about that too. Both of you are gonna have to cut ties w/each other if this "new life" thing is to be successful at all.

And my guess was exactly right and it "outed" him. You both are so engaging each other it's really bothering to me. Do i go to eat w/my x? Do I have anything to do with his house or my house or anything like that at all? No. That's the point of a divorce.

I'm not sure what to say at all right now. The last thing I want to hear is a back and forth arguement with you guys when I am working to exorcise my x from my life and move ahead. So the printer's fixed? He comes over and does stuff for you? Boundaries? Is there even one now?

I suggest for you to focus on you right now. And I think it was Muzo or Wifty who said either you two separate life and financial issues or else there's not going to be any new life for you. As long as this stuff is intertwined, the longer the arguements period.

I know this b/c of the hummer issue and the few remaining with me. But that's the extent of the issues..I might have to do legal stuff or go to get changes made but that would include my lawyers.

If you can't be the x he wants of his dreams then put up the fence and get some decent boundaries and separate the legal and financial crap once and for all. My x wanted this "great x relationship" where he, me and the wistress would be great friends..Stupid. I don't want that and the issues with he and I were a bit different that yours with your x. You can't move on like this at all.

Just so you'all know, I will be copying this post and also putting it on SNL's thread.

What is happening here is quite easy to see: Faith4me and SNL are addicted to each other. Now, I am POSITIVE they will both protest and deny and maybe even accuse me of something to shift the focus (which I will ignore), but the simple truth is...this is an addiction just like any other. If SNL and Faith4me were alcoholics, we would not just keep telling them: "Just STOP DRINKING" because you can tell an alcoholic that a thousand times and they won't stop. It's an undeniable craving--and a true addict will not see the damage they are doing OR the damage being done to them! EVERYTHING will be lost and sacrificed in order to "get" the addiction.

So, working from the frame of mind that their abusive interactions are an addiction, what's the first thing we learn in any addiction recovery program? That the addict has to WANT to stop. That we can not "make" them or "convince" them or "explain it" to them...they have to see it as a problem and WANT to stop of their own volition. Clearly neither SNL nor Faith4me see this as a problem in their lives, nor do they have any desire to stop.

Once an addict DOES see that their addiction is a problem over which they have no control, what's the next thing we do? The addict has to go through the pain of withdrawal. Yes...pain. Even through their interactions are abusive and cause them both enormous anguish and suffering, it is still some sort of sick connection. If they were to realize that this connection was an addiction, they would have to suffer the pain of withdrawing from the other--and right now, neither one of them is willing to withstand the pain it would cause themself. Faith4me is not willing to withstand the withdrawal pain of having no one to "call on" for help and no one to "blame" for her victimhood; and SNL is not willing to withstand the withdrawal of having no one to "control" and no one to "blame" for his abusive outbursts.

The payoff to both of them is that they maintain the unhealthy addictive connection, neither one has to face themself and realize that their issues are their own issues, and they continuous have someone else in their life to blame for their unhappiness and misfortune. As any true alcoholic would tell you, drinking is not the problem--drinking helps FIX the problem. Well for SNL and Faith4me, their abusive-addictive connection is not the problem--HE or SHE is the problem. See??

So as people who care for two people who are addicts, what can we do? What would we do if they were addicted to alcohol? We have to set boundaries so that their abuse of each other does not hurt us (protect ourselves), and we have to let them suffer the consequences of their addiction, and we have to let them hit bottom.

It's sad. I'm afraid for them. I am afraid that it will get very bad before either one admits that they are the one with the addiction. :tear:

Just to set the record straight, I'm not speaking about SNL and Faith4me without knowing where they're coming from. My relationship with my abusive exH was also an addiction, and just as I am stating in my post, I myself had to recognize that it was an addiction that was hurting me AND suffer there pain of withdrawal. I kept coming up with reasons and excuses why "I needed to call my exH", and I virtually had to train myself to NOT call him...to NOT interact...to think of alternatives (like if I needed milk, I got it or I asked a kid to get it--not him!)...to break free of the addiction. I know of what I speak.


CJ

Peachy - there is a lot that SNL said on the thread. I read it, and really don't have much to say. I don't trust the man, he has lied, been deceitful and still is deceitful.

I don't tell him much of my life anymore. There is no need to tell him. As far as dinner, I went, cause it was dinner for my youngest sons birthday. My youngest son asked me to go. X went in his own vehicle, and I went with my 2 boys and a friend of my sons. I could of stayed home, and that would of been okay too. But my youngest son asked me. If it wasn't for his birthday I would of not gone. SNL has taken the kids out to eat many many times, and I have not gone. I don't feel comfortable with X, and he is not a man to trust.

The situation with the rotator cuff, is my X knows that the arm he grabbed was a arm that I already had 2 surgeries on, and have a disability from it. The situation was that X went to the bank, and went to the safe deposit box without both of us being there. And the representative of the bank was the one that told me there was an error made. X did mix up the keys in the 2 key jackets that we had, for 2 different boxes. So I took the key that I thought was correct and it was the key for the other box. Which when we went to that box after the affair, we found he had hidden money in that box.

I called him to get the right key, and of course he wouldn't give me the key. And of course he neglected to tell you all that he was calling me a FB and spitting in my face.

I read the posts he made, and once again I am the bad mother, bad wife, bad person. I know that God made me, God knows that I am a good person, and I know that I am a good person. We all know that X hates my guts, he even wrote in in the e-mail yesterday. He wrote he HATES me.

He doesn't even say how he comes over and doesn't even call me. I came home from church today, and he was here. Yes, in my home and I had to come home and he was here. He doesn't follow the rules, which he states. And that is why this home is not a safe home for me, unless I get a PPO. Yes, he has threaten me with alienation of my kids. I have the e-mails he sent yesterday. I have where he called me a FB on the e-mails.

No I don't trust this man, and there are serious matters going on in my life, I just found out some more today, and I will not tell him anything. He doesn't need to know, and yes, X has not stated that he has a violent temper. He has put holes in the walls, thrown things, called the kids names, and me names before. He yells, even now at the kids for something they did not do right with the business phones. The kids will tell me, and I just say, I don't answer the phones anymore. He yells at his mother when she answers the phones, and she told him that she will just not answer the F888888 phones anymore. XH has a violent temper, cause people don't follow his ways.

That is his problem, and I am trying very hard to move on. And things may move faster than what I intended for them to do.

I am leaving this Saturday for a nice week in Florida. A cousin of mine, and I are leaving. She just lost her loving husband to a heart attack in October. And she is lonely. She wants to go where it is warm, and chill out. So her and her husband have time shares, and we got a time share in Florida. She is helping pay for my plane ticket. And the rest we are working out. I am getting us in free to Disneyworld through a friend of mine that has worked there for about 15 years, as a chinese interpretor. We will be meeting her and her husband when we arrive.

I have a great church, and have met a lovely woman and her husband. They have helped me in many ways. And with the new info that I have, when I get back from my vacation she is going to help me.

Yes, SNL and I were co-dependent on each other. And I don't see where X didn't put in the thread the things that he did. Just all that I did. I could go on and on and state his failures, but what is the use. He has graphically put me on paper as the emotional wreck, the distant wife, worthless mother to my children, I was none of these. I had many issues to deal with this man. I tried finding solutions and giving ideas to help correct some issues. But he would not accept advice from me. That is okay, at least I had some grand ideas.

He goes on temperments, and will stay on temperments till the day he dies. There are many people who love each other and have opposite temperments. But he doesn't see it that way. Every marriage will be work. There is no marriage that is not work. It was interesting of the Nigeria couple stood up today in church. And they talked briefly about their marriage and how they both have had to work on their marriage.

Committment and love are the 2 basic standards for a good marriage. Committment to follow the bible on how a man and wife are to treat their spouse. Love, the same as God loves each and every one of us.

My life is going towards the church more and more. I have found an awesome church, and more and more people are becoming my 2nd family. X doesn't have a church, and today we talked briefly about church. He doesn't want a church that you have to listen to sermons, or sing. He was a church, where you ask questions and go back and forth. If that is his liking, then I hope he finds it. I love singing, I love music, he doesn't love music. I love fellowship, and greeting others in the church. I am now a greeter of the church. It as interesting this morning, and I got a lot of big HHUGGSS... and gave many hugs.

I am emotional more than my X. I do love my MIL, and always will be there for her. MIL respects my opinion, and judgment. She knows that I will care for her. And I told her she will never be in a nursing home. Just as my mother will never be in a nursing home. I tell both my mother and my MIL that I love them. And think and pray for them.

Oh yes, the printer is not fixed. And my son is fixing the printer, not X. It is needed for all of us here, not just me.

Yes, X needs to move out of state. Which he will probably move this year I hope. Since my youngest son will be graduating from high school in May. Then my oldest daughter will be moving, sometime this summer she says. With what I really don't know, she doesn't have a job, and has a big debt.

My other 2 said they will live with me until they get a job. And of course the youngest son will live with me when he comes home from college.

Also, the kids would rather live with me than their dad. They all have said that. I take care of them in many ways, that the X doesn't see. Finances will be hard for me. The only asset I have is this house, and who knows how much it will sell for. So as far as financially set, no, not at all. I will have to work at a job, some job, till retirement of 67. What a way to have to live after 53 years. And devoting since 1990 to working for the xh for no paycheck and nothing to show. But that is what happens when you work for your husband without a paycheck. I tell many woman now that if you work for your husband to get a paycheck. It is surprising, that I find they already get a paycheck. Cause their husband was looking out for their wives, and not for themselves. I will make it, may not beable to vacation, or have a lot of materialistic items. But I really don't need the materialistic items. I am downsizing, and making my life simple.

Bye for now.

F4M, you are taking poison and expecting him to die or get sick from it.

Stop the self-destructiveness right now. Separate your finances. Stop the calling him for help. Really truly work on just yourself.

Have you joined a women's support group at church or something where you can gain the internal strength you need to emotionally divorce this toxic human being you used to be married to?

Because right now, the two of you are no where near being emotionally divorced. You are still to the stage where you want to totally annihilate the other. You are still married in this way.

What I want to know is how is this or any of this back and forth and passive communication between you and the x in any way related to MB at all?

For the last several months, we urged you to est. healthy boundaries from him.

Asked you to change locks and not let him in your house. What a violation of your privacy. And to walk in and see the man using your computer...like I said, he knows everything about you..

My guess is that nothing has changed. You're both doing the destruction tango. How can you heal unless this madness stops?

I swear if I walked in and my x was here, he'd be arrested then I'd have somebody look at my computer forensically to see if he's put anything there (spyware or other monitoring programs) to check out my use...Then I'd put a big fence up, get an even bigger dog, and have all locks done and a burglar alarm asap.

But you don't want it.

It's pretty darn clear you want contact. Yep. You sure do. As long as either of you have anger and daily contact with one another, then you stay connected.

When you gonna wake up and smell the cappucino? It's over. You're divorced. You can dislike fact he talks w/OW. But you can't do anything about it and blaming him is not exactly MB way...

You've both become EXCELLENT REMINDERS OF HOW TO LOVE BUST. How to destroy it.

Here's what I've observed that I will NOT DO in a future relationship:
1)allow my privacy to not be respected
2)let my life be an open book for the guy I'm seeing to have full access too. Marilyn Monroe once said that men desire "mystery". No mystery here.
3)Become passive agressive and not say what it is I am exactly wanting out of a relationship..ie: you complain about x, talk of what he's not doing, and say what you wish he'd do (church, love God, find God, etc.)
4)take words from professionals and throw them out the door ...the women's group you attend for example...I don't know of any survivor's group for divorce or spousal abuse that would agree with the choices you've made. Plus you say you've been to a counselor...I know my counselor would tell me I need about a hundred more sessions if I did some of this stuff...
5)go out to dinner or be in the company of regularly my xh when I am supposedly "moving on" with my life. Hint..if you want that wonderful guy one day who will treat you with the respect and dignity you DO deserve, you have to be around the right one...THIS X IS NOT THE RIGHT ONE.
6)Ignore the wise words of Einstein who once said and I am paraphrasing this..."the definition of INSANITY IS TO DO THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND EXPECT THE OUTCOME TO BE DIFFERENT."

You've done the same stuff over and over and you're outcome is exactly the same. Maybe that's why neither of you could reconcile or do any healing from MB...You have to actually CHANGE. Not spiritual mind you. It's about changing the THINGS YOU DO TO THE PERSON WHO'S SUPPOSED TO BE YOUR PARTNER.

Yea, I may be divorced, but I am still going through stuff and am on this board so I can find the other people who've gone thru something similar and see how they positively deal with things...and I use MB techniques to help me move on and know I will be in a very healthy, very pro MB relationship one day and that one won't end like this...

I'm asking you to be true to yourself for once. If you want sufdb back, then go back to square one with MB. If you want him outta your life and start afresh, then do a plan B now...build some fences, separate all financial accounts and hire attorney if it's too sticky and do what should have been done when you divorced this guy. It's like you're stuck. Stuck between the past and moving on to what your future is or could be. sure. Sometimes I get sad when I think of my x and what COULD have been but I realize that I don't want him the way he is now..the man he's become in the present. He's not wanting to change and I know it wasn't me who did the changing...I did all the MB techniques and got a little success..but only after a near flawless plan A and a plan B. And it was short lived b/c of his own issues.

Your x isn't married to the OW like mine is. I suspect he left b/c of issues AND the OW. So did either of you work on the issues? I am not sure and I kinda doubt it. But I think you should carefully re examine this whole thing and see what it is you actually want and then pursue it. Dr. Phil says that all relationships can be opened up for renegotiations at any time...you just gotta be ready for the negotiation and decide to win it.

I like you and have prayed for you for a while but am getting really frustrated here. I do. I just want you to find out what you want and do something about it once and for all and show us the result of that honesty with yourself.

Peachy - the world that hsd encased me is really tough. Life is getting better, and recently there have been more secrets that have come out, and I am a caregiver, and a rescuer so I am really struggling with my life.

I don't want XH has a man with bitterness, name calling to me, self-centered, unthoughtful, duo-personality man, disrespectful person. I am searching for my life as well. I am not self-centered, as XH has stated many times. I am not an angry woman that XH has stated many times. I actually have been labeled as a whimp. I used to get angry, with XH cause he wouldn't see my side of things. And like now, he doesn't listen to me, but will take the sides of the children. And in the past when I wanted to have a conversation with im only, he wouldn't tell the children to leave, but stay. And justify this by saying they need to intereact.

That is one of the issues we had in the marriage. he didn't respect me as a wife, just as an older child. I respected him, and did things many times his way. Cause I thought that he should be the head of the family.

Like today, I said, that I do wish that my oldest daughter would move out. I don't believe my XH heard me say why. Cause he just said, well, we will see if we can make room for her with him and grandma. I really don't believe he heard any other word I said. And I am the recipient of the conversation, and I do feel this way.

See XH has given the oldest anything she wanted. And he is still continuing on the path of protecting her, and not letting her find her path in life. One day, she will be out on her own, and if dad continues on the path of protecting her, she won't survive. She needs to get out on her own, and find the path of self-support, taking care of herself, and not coming home to ask for money. After all, I have 3 other children that are in desire of financial needs, and 2 are doing very good in aeronautical engineering. And they are not getting the financial support the oldest has had all her life.

I am here to help me grow, move on, and leave XH behind. As you can read, he is done. Which is fine. He is the one who had the affair, and went ballistic. So he can find himself a new soulmate, or continue on with the old bimbo.

Yesterday, I did some good moves toward a job at church. I am not sure what the pay will be, but Pastor and I have some plans that when I get back from my well deserved vacation in Florida, I will do some research. He suggested that I do the searching, since he is divided among many projects. And I told him that I am honored to take on this responsibility. So he gave me names, and when I get back, I will report things to him as needed. We might also, travel to some other places that have adult care, to see the system, and how it is working. Also, they might build another building on the next 5 acres for another project that I might be interested in.

I talked to pastor about a good bible. Cause the ones that we have are so difficult to read and understand. He recommended a very good one for me and a website. So I ordered it, and it was expensive, but he said, many of the people of the church have ordered this one, and are so happy for the recommendation. So I ordered it and a book cover. Pastor, showed me how the bible works, and how one can understand the verses. I am committed to my church, and feel this is my 2nd home. I feel so good going to church, and feel so loved by many of the people there.

Yes, I have low self-esteem. My XH called me FB, and other words for so long. And then told things to my face that he never loved me, and that he didn't love me at the altar. That is hard to take. And then when I heard him talk sexually to the other woman and say that he loved her and not his wife and gave kisses, I wanted to throw up and was very angry. I am getting better, but I do have back flashes with him spitting in my face, and calling me names.

Peachy, where I live now, the subdivision is starting, and the workers and construction crew is working from about 8am-7pm. It is a sad situation, and I fear for my dogs. So I will go to the people hopefully tomorrow, and I am going to ask for the temporary orange fencing, so that the son and I or the kids next week can put it up so the dogs stay out of the machinery tracks. It is so sad, cause it was so nice to take the dogs for a walk, to the pond and the creek. The trees are going down, and the earth is being pulled upside down. Beautiful trees, farm land is becoming a flat surface of land with no character. Makes one really sad.

Also, the woman that I take care of on Thursdays, is in the hospital and she had a stroke. The daughter called me from Colorado, and they are going to put the house up for sale in March. The mother is going to be put in a assisted living complex. She has the house that I am interested in buying. I talked to the pastor and he said I should talk to a CPA, and we have a CPA at church, so I have to talk to her when I get
back.

I didn't expect this until July or August. So this has really caused some pressure on me. And I have to talk to the couple at church that is interested in looking at my house. The house is really not in a very good shape. Cause a lot of it is not finished. And now the downstairs bathroom wall is torn out and the shower needs to be tore out and redone. Because of the water leak, that I asked XH to fix in the divorce decree. The tiles are falling off and the grout is so nasty and cracking. The guy that did the shower did a very poor job.

Also, XH is pressuring me to go to court this week, and I really don't have time. He is pressuring, cause now his life is at stake. But when I wanted to get things settled legally, he didn't want to take the time. So I may not go this week, cause I really need time to get ready for the vacation, and I still have a little bit of the job left to do that I started about a month ago. The guy has been very nice, and asked if I could help some tomorrow. Which I will maybe for 3 hours.

I am here on MB to help myself succeed. To get myself ahead, and also ask ?'s about things that I don't know. A good amount of people here have good advice and have done the research themselves.

There is nothing that I can do to help XH. He is on his path of personality, what is marriage, why stay married, and etc. Let him focus on what he wants. And I am not going to go into his rhetoric of who said what.

I know what I have done in failure of the marriage. I know how I have improved myself, so far. And I know some of the things that need improving. I am struggling with school, finances, and coping with everyday situations.

So that is why I am still here. To seek advice, and do better for myself. I care about many of you here, and I know that many of you communicate privately, which is fantastic. You all have made some great friendships here. That is what happens in a forum. I have made some good friends here, and we communicate once in awhile. It helps to talk to others in the same situations.