You said you find my behavior sly and tricky (the meaning of wangle)? I don't understand why you would think I am either.
I don’t think you are trying to be tricky about it.
To me it seems more as if you are looking for a “loophole”.
And to me, it looks like you don’t “really” want out but more along the lines of your just fed up.

He brings me flowers and cards and that makes me feel bad.
Why do you feel bad?

I'm not moved by my husbands attempts to behave.
What if it‘s not an “attempt” at anything but he really is changing?

As Dr Harley has asked, (something along these lines), “You want to be happy. Don‘t you think the BEST thing to do would be stay together, fall in love with your husband again, have a great relationship and be a family with him and your kids?”
(This is not a question if you want it but wouldn’t it be the BEST thing to happen?)

What is preventing this from happening?

If you feel you have done everything to make this happen and it’s not happening well then what?

If you want a divorce, then you are gonna have to decide you want one enough to get one.

<small>[ February 21, 2004, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

You bring up good points. I do have to try to understand why I feel the way I do and why I'm so resistant to commit to trying to fix it. That makes me think of surrendering a little....I don't know why I have such a hard time accepting my feelings and expressing them honestly and openly with him - not worrying so much about the outcome. Just tell it like it is. I'm always telling him "I don't know" because I can never articulate what it is I'm feeling and what I think the reason is, I think could be wrong???? Frustrating. My husband is going on a trip abroad with my two older kids for 10 days soon which might be good for me to actually be in charge of myself for some time to think in peace. I do need to find out more about my bizarre thought processes and so will probably ask for book recommendations on a new thread. Thanks for your input. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I do have to try to understand why I feel the way I do and why I'm so resistant to commit to trying to fix it.
One reason IS the frustration. He has been the way he has for so long, why should you accept that things might permanently change?

That makes me think of surrendering a little
I know this is an extremely scary thing to do.

....I don't know why I have such a hard time accepting my feelings and expressing them honestly and openly with him - not worrying so much about the outcome. Just tell it like it is.
You have to learn to do it in a way which is not going to “blame” everyone (you included).
Feelings are not “right” or “wrong”. They just are. How you express those feelings can be right or wrong though.

A good book is
We Can Work It Out: How to Solve C... Clifford I. Notarius, Howard J. Markman
It’s teaches you a good way to communicate effectively and get your point across without the other person becoming defensive. I think it fits in very well with Marriage Builders ideas. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sounds good. Thanks for the recommendation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />