Hi,
I am new to this but am seeking some answers, advice. For many years my husband has shut me out of any important issues in his life. He always chose to walk away, from any problem or issue instead of dealing with it. I was often called a B****, told I was selfish, I felt that I couldn't do anything right in his eyes. He would drink extremely heavily even in front of my children and at times would drive while under the influence of alcohol. My children even began to have questions about the anger. He has not physically hurt me but the name calling and telling me that he would K*** me (he says he didn't mean it) caused me to snap and want out of the marriage. I have stayed in the marriage for years for the children. He says that he has never been verbally abusive to me and doesn't want me to bring up the past. He says he has changed and doesn't want to discuss the past issues. He believes that I am having an affair. I do have a friend that is a man whom I do e-mail and talk to to "vent frustrations" (along with several "women friends.") I wanted the male perspective since he says that he will not admit to any form of verbal abuse. Am I crazy for thinking that a husband calling his wife a B**** when he's angry, drinking and then not talking, is NOT normal?? My husband's only focus at this point is that He feels I'm having an affair. It's all my problem. (We both have made some positive changes.) He feels that he is now "accomodating"me, keeping me "entertained" yet he is still the one to get angry. He is not staying in our home at this time. I am trying to dig deep and find some feeling for him but I am numb. We have both done counseling. The counselor tells me he thinks I am ready to move on. My husband tells me I'm not trying hard enough, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> buys me books and gives me a time frame for reading them. He tells me he is moving back in whether I like it or not. He has told all of his family and mine that I am having an affair yet he feels that I am isolating myself by not going to family functions. I must say that there have been some good times, trips, etc... Maybe that is why I have been trying to find something left inside of me. Since he has left,I have felt more at peace than I have in years. Any advice?

Okay, take a deep breath. That’s the only guaranteed advise I can offer.

Now, the reason you feel more at peace is because you were abused. And I for one, do not use that word very often. A non-abusive spouse never calls names, and non-abusive spouses do not threaten to kill their beloveds.

Also, I think you should take the threat to your life seriously. I find it ominous that your H is telling you he’s moving back whether you like it or not. It feels scary to me, so I’m betting it feels scary to you too.

Also, your spouse’s behavior is consistent with the controlling behavior of abusive partners. Giving timelines to read books!

Now, you say he’s made changes. What are they exactly? Can you name them and give examples? Or did he tell you the changes he made, feeding them to you?

Here are some ideas:

Plan B in which you write a nice letter saying how much you care for him and want the marriage to work, but until such time as he does x,y, and z, you must have no contact at all with him in order to protect the remaining love from his destructive behavior.

Contact your local women’s shelter for advice and help.

Explain to all family and friends that you are not having an affair. That you were using this man as a reality check and that you are not emotionally or physically involved with him.

Cut off contact with male friend until such time as you are happily married or happily divorced. No need to give your husband ammunition. (Check out my “Not giving opinion” thread here for how “friends” can be used against you.)

Consider recording all threats, and asking for a restraining order. If your children witnessed him threatening to kill you, that may be enough.

Get your children some help, even if it’s only through the school counselor. Hearing Daddy threaten to kill Mommy is bad.

Find a good lawyer, just in case. Find out your rights, what you can do and can’t do.

change the locks on the doors.

Develop an “escape” plan to get you and your children to a safe haven if you need to flee him.

And since this man has threatened to kill you, I’ll add this, follow no advice if you think the advice puts you in danger.

PS: The good times are part of the abusive cycle.

What GG describes is called Emotional Abuse. A great book on the subject is "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans. This may describe alot about your wife.
And GG consistently avoids the abuse word.

By your post, it seems your H blames you for everything. This is projection. He can't accept responsbility for anything so it's all your fault.

Regardign your male friend. Yes it's great to have a perspective, but read up on the site on Emotional affairs which will help you understand the situation better.

Please seek out help from your local women's crisis center. Emotional abuse is hard to diagnose and recover from.

I found that the combination of Alcohol or drug abuse and emotional abuse make many of the MB principles useless. However, I have learned a great deal from the MB books.

The Verbal Abuse book is interesting, but it is a little extreme for my tastes, as Newly knows.

HOWEVER, in your situation, OC, the patterns and descriptions will be helpful for you. And quite possibly empowering.

Thank you! After hearing that I am a liar, selfish, unwilling to try, and that the words that were used "B" especially, were not abusive. I have been told that I need psychological help. It is nice to have some reaffirmations that I am not a terrible person for feeling so empty inside. Thank you!

It wouldn't hurt to file the papers and turn them over to an attorney or a process server until you are ready to serve him. All you would be out is the filing fee (I don't know how much that would be in your state.)

Do you have an attorney? If so, talk to him/her about Temporary Restraining Orders to be served at the time of divorce papers being served.

If he has threatened your life in front of witnesses, you need to tell the attorney that fact. Did you report the threat to police?

Lastly, if you're getting ready to leave, important fact:
Most women who are killed by abusive boyfriend/spouse are murdered when the victim is ready to leave/is actually leaving. It is the most dangerous time. Have a plan, have a safe place, and do not let him find out about your plans.

So sorry.

Probably a little help in reasserting your boundaries is not a bad thing, but your IC is giving you that.

So, what's your plan?

(You come here, you not only get advice, you are asked to report back on which advice you're going to take and when you're going to implement it! We're a tough crowd. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

Don't let your affirmation cause you to stop here.
There's much work to do to become emotionally healthy and it's a long road.

For your children's sake, please get counseling for you and them. Also, since Alcohol was a big piece of your case (as in many), please check with Alanon and alateen for additional help.

I am an ACOA and only now realize the impact it has had on my life. Help your children grow into emotionally healthy adults so that they can make good decisions.

I have a lawyer, have the paperwork ready to file but asked him to hold it. Why, truthfully, I'm not sure why. My lawyer told me that my H would be very angry when he got the papers, my mom has voiced concern and yet he, my H, says he has read some books and is a new man (physically yes, control wise, I don't see it.)I have not sought out a shelter. My H says I've been brainwashed into thinking that he has been verbally abusive, that he would never hurt me. I have done some reading on verbal and emotional abuse. If I bring it up, he just says, "we were happy!" I think one of my mistakes has been to fall back into old habits when I'm around him. I have told him too much already. I think that when I do file, (which I believe I will do, I just have to be sure for all our sakes) I will have the lawyer call him or have him served. He says whatever I need is what will make him happy. He is either very up and supportive or very down and threatning.
My H has been sure to tell me that I will never make it on my own, that we were finally in a good place financially...huge guilt trip on me. He has told all our mutual friends that I am just having a mid-life crisis and I'll get over it. When I do he'll make me the happiest woman on earth if I'll let him try. Guilt, Guilt, Guilt! How do I get pat the guilt?

Counseling,counseling,counseling!

You get past the guilt by getting angry. The whole guilt thing is a way to manipulate you. And guess what? You can say “S*cks to be you,” to him. So, he’s going to lose out financially. Too bad. A year’s worth of MC and the man is putting you on guilt trips, defiling your name and more. Not good.
I also think this MLC talk, claiming you’re having an affair, etc are a little off the wall. I’m having a fantasy where you sue him for slander.
But, I’m so glad you brought up finances. Have you protected yourself?

And of course, your husband denied that he was abusive. He probably said it was all in your head. Or that you were imagining it.

In my humble opinion, the only brainwashing was done by him.

Your husband sounds volatile. What did the MC say?
One thing another poster’s ex tried was to get her committed. Now, Peachy’s ex truly qualifies as a menace to society. He suffers from a personality disorder. And even now, when he’s remarried with a child on the way, he’s trying to control her entire life. He also bad mouthed her to anyone who would listen, still tells her she’ll never make it without him (evidence to the contrary), and recently has ruined her credit.
Most spouses don’t rise to the level of Peachy’s Jethro. I’m just telling you so that you’ll prepare for the worse case scenario. That way, you’ll be prepared for anything that he throws at you.

What does your lawyer say about how to handle filing the papers?
Can you get a restraining order?
Have you changed the locks?
Do you have a large brother who can be with you when H receives the papers?
Do you have a safe place to take the children should H respond with violence?
Have you protected yourself financially?
And what’s your plan if he threatens to kill you?


And good girl for having the lawyer and one who knows that your h. will get very angry.

Hello again,
I haven't been back for a few days as my H and I have been trying to work on our marriage. This has been very stressful for me as I felt that I was ready to throw in the towel, yet at the same time I am able to carry on a conversation about day to day events. He is putting some pressure on me to let him move back in. He wants some physical attention, hold hands, a hug. I can't (or don't want to) give that yet, I wonder if I will be able to?
He has made many physical changes, working out, tanning, buying new clothes, losing weight etc... I can't figure out why I seem to be unable to let myself feel anything when I am around him!? He is lovey, dovey to my kids in a way that he never was before. I almost feel that it's an act for them, in case I file, he can say he wasn't the one. Maybe it's a trust issue, still. I am finding that trying to rebuild a love that was completely dead, is extremely exhausting! At times, I feel that I'm giving him false hope but don't want to not try if it's possible. My family says that I have to quit beating myself feeling guilty about wanting to get out. I find myself falling into old habits of not speaking my mind and giving in to whatever he wants. I am trying with all my might to break that cycle. It's amazing to me that something that should be so positive is so emotionally draining.

I am Oceangirl's husband. I have been on this board since November. I just realized that she was using the site and had started posting. That is great. There are lots of good people here. She even posted on one of my threads and didn't tell me it was her. I responded to her! Very sneaky <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . No I am not mad Oceangirl.

Please read my other postings if you wish to know our story, or ask me questions. This post may make my wife mad and end my marriage or it may not,I am trying to do the right thing, and make something positive happen. My motives are true , and I want to save my marriage. I don't have anything to hide.

Lets start by clarifying some issues so we can have a positive, meaningful conversation. You guys can really help both of us.

1. My wife is having an affair. She is still communicating with the other man. It seems to be an EA, and has been going on since last July. I have cell phone records of 600+ phone calls between them, and a 2 inch stack of correspondence from the computer to back it up. Yes, she is having an affair.

2. Did I do some abusive things to my wife? YES! I may not agree with her that some of them were abusive, but if SHE feels that way, then YES they were abusive, and I need to be sure they never happen again. I have apologized to her for months, and am making changes. Those changes are not just for show, and unfortunately they don't happen overnight. I have been in counseling about my life and our marriage for almost three months I am going again on Thursday. She has decided she is OK, and she has decided that she is done with counseling.

I was very insensitive to her needs. I was an emotionally closed off, angry jerk for a long time. I shut everyone out, not just her. I am responsible for my actions, regardless of what influences or problems may have caused me to act that way. I admit that I did some wrong things, and my failure to meet her needs helped her to fall into this affair. I am trying become a better person, and do the right thing each day. What else can I do? Would a public stoning be useful????

3. She is in no danger from me. What else can I say.... Her actions speak louder than any words I can say. We went on a 7 mile hike through the woods by ourselves this weekend, on a trail where we saw no other people, and both of us lived to tell about it:) She did this willingly. We even had a bit of fun trying to find a restroom. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We go out to eat together, and do lots of things together alone.

4. She can make it financially on her own. She is capable of anything she sets her mind to. God she can be stubborn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> She is one of the best educators that I have ever seen. She loves what she does, and makes a real difference to some very challanged kids. Why couldn't she make it on her own? I never said she couldn't.

We both make about the same income. When this all started, I demanded that we split our incomes out into separate bank accounts, and divide the bills 50-50. I didn't want money to be an issue. I have tried hard to make things fair, and when she was short of money, I have spent what I have had extra to make sure things got done to make both our lives a little easier right now. That was not a controlling gesture. I did that willingly, and with love, and I never asked her to pay me back. It is not important. I did however, give my wife a spreadsheet that showed her our financial picture as a divorced couple. It is not pretty....Same income, two households. That is not intimidation, that is just reality. Let's all do the math. Yup, lifestyle change for everyone involved. Good or bad lifestyle change? Who knows....

5. Her falling back into bad habits and not speaking her mind is part of what got us to this ugly fork in the relationship road. Yes, I share the blame for the communication issues also. Her not speaking up and communicating NOW is not my fault. She is responsible for her actions. I do not read minds. Men and Women are wired a bit differently. I am learning the hard way how different we really are. I think we both need to become better communicator's and listeners. I gave her HNHN and another book on communication that I thought might be useful. I ASKED her to read them. She has not read them yet as far as I can tell. I guess that is because I gave them to her, not because they are not good books. I don't know. I was upset at her when I gave them to her, and I suspect that left a bad taste in her mouth. That is my fault. I am sorry.

She will not hurt my feelings if she speaks her mind. Please talk.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> This anonymous forum would probably be a great place to start. The only judge and jury here is a person's own heart. You can hang up any time you want. Please don't fall back into old habits. I promise I won't.

6. Kids.... I am living outside the home, at the recommendation of the MC, and have been doing so for almost 4 months to give my wife "space" so she can get over her fear of me. It is a sacrifice, and I am making it willingly for everyones sake. It is the right thing to do.


My wife has let me know how much my sacrifice means to her, by continuing her relationship with the other man...... and yes, I have threatened to move back in, since it appears that my not being home is very convenient for her and him. It puts me in an awkward moral position and I am still trying to reconcile the issue.

It would seem to be normal for a father and kids who really love each other to miss each other and be all lovey dovey. I didn't have kids not to be involved in their lives. Lovey dovey is nothing to be ashamed about. We need more of that in the world. I don't have the luxury she has of seeing them 24 hours a day every day, and every night. We have great kids, and we are good parents. Yes I have set a bad example for them with alcohol sometimes. I haven't had an adult beverage in 4 months and don't care to, so I don't think that will be an issue in the future.

If we get divorced, I will have nothing but good things to say to the kids about their mother. She is a bit "different" right now, but as a whole she is an incredible person. Each person on this board would be lucky to know her. We can't give the kids enough extra love right now....I will continue to Lovey dovey away!!!

7. Maybe one reason that she can't feel anything for me right now, is because there is only room for one person in anyone's heart, and right now her "friend" is the one still in there.

Please let him go, and never talk with him again. You have started taking those steps, please follow through. You told me that you had told him he needed to try and stop his divorce, and save his marriage. If you really meant that, then you need to break it off with him forever, otherwise it will never work for him either. You are a strong person to tell him what you said, thank you for being couragous. I know it has to hurt. I know he is having some major personal issues right now, but so are you....
He has other people around him to help him out. He does not really need you. Understand that what these good people on the MB site are saying is true. Let him go, and we can work on us, and it can work out and be great. Until then, all you are doing is punishing me, yourself, and hurting the kids. If that is what you want, and it makes you happy, then I guess you will have to keep doing it. I don't control your life. You are in control of it.

8. In the end, it all comes down to choices. Us or divorce. There is no hurry to decide either, I am not pressuring you. Life moves in strange ways, and you need to find your own path. I told you the other day that I still love you. I have swallowed my selfish pride, forgiven you for the affair and moved on. I didn't say I would forget. I can't promise that, it is impossible to do. Are you willing to do the same for me? Whether we stay married or not, I hope you can some day forgive me for being weak. Hating me, lying, and sneaking around will not make you happy. It is not you. It is not healthy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

In the end, the real issue is our relationship, not the Affair. I hope you know that I understand that.

What I can tell you I have learned over the past months, is that we are all victims of something in life. We can either let those events define us and consume our lives, or we can forgive, and do the right thing all the time, every day, no matter how hard it is. We can decide what has influence on US. Doing what is right WILL bring us happiness. I can't tell you what the right thing is for you, only your heart can tell you. Either way please do what your heart tells you is right with all the vigor and happiness that life gives you. Listen to your heart. It is true, and it will never fail you, if you are honest with yourself.

This half-way life is no good for either of us. Please start living again. I love you too much to see you this way......

So sorry, but I can't take the ultimatims any longer. There is no affair but the "friend" that he keeps referring to, I have known his family for a long time. My friends father is dying of cancer and yes he has other friends to talk to. We don't talk much but I do check up on progress (he on a feeding tube. This is a man that I have known for a long time. I am supposed to just send flowers and not care?)That is what my H thinks. My family has been supportive because they know that I am NOT having an affair. I doubt that I will ever choose to be in another relationship after this. Thank you for your support to both of us, but to all of you that don't know me, I feel terrible that you will judge me upon what my H. believes. I feel that all of this has made me quite bitter. My H. reads the MB posts and hears everyone tell him that I am having an EA. He then contacts me and after he says he believes me, he turns around and says he doesn't. I realized my mistake and stopped it dead in it's tracks. Ask him, I am a VERY strong person. I will not be controlled. I again recognized my mistake in letting the control happen in my marriage and have taken that into account and have gone ahead and filed after He again made ultimatums. He cannot trust ( I told him just to get back into my e-mails, He hacked into them in the first place.) Maybe we will both be in healthier places alone. He needn't worry about me having a relationship that's 1500 miles away. I can't see how he could even think it would or could happen. I feel sad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> that he couldn't just listen to me. I had been trying!!!!!!!

OC, review your post. In it, you are quite clear that your friendship with this man means more to you than your husband's happiness and your marriage.

There are all kinds of warning signs here. Even if it's not an affair, the friendship, and your refusal to give it up, has further damaged your marriage.

All things considered, I think you and your husband need some space to think. I think he's done a lot to harm your love for him. And I never think he has been mistreating you in a number of ways. But, asking you to not contact your friend is not mistreating nor controlling you.