</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Just some info from my own history. I miniminized my XH's behavior the whole time I was married to him. I went through a horrible four years after I divorced him. Now I am married to someone who is not at all abusive and I look back at what I put up with and think "Why? What was going through my brain?"
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear elspeth,

May I ask what you did put up with? Did he convince you that you brought it on yourself? that is was your fault or that you started it? Is your ex an alcoholic?

I only ask these questions because my H claims that the emotional abuse and verbal abuse is not really abuse. He does it mostly when he has too much to drink. He is an alcoholic although he denies it because in his family if you still go to work every day, then you are not a "real" alcoholic. His father and sister are also alcoholics. His behavior when drinking mirrors his fathers.

My H has never hit me, but the emotional and verbal abuse is terrible. The next day he will usually apologize and then I am expected to forget it and not be angry or hold a grudge.

Two previous occasions he agreeded to move out and go to AA meetings (drunk meetings he calls them). Well he never moved and never went to a meeting. He will go a month or so and do the rampaging again. Then we are back to square one. This has been a pattern for 15 years or so. We have been married 19 years.

Anyway, my question is, Is it me? Am I making a mountain out of a molehill. Should I just get over it every time it happens. The last time my 16 year old daughter and I locked ourselves in the bath until he crashed...Later he convinces me that it was not bad. and he denies things that he says...who's crazy here? Me or him?

Its like he has a power of convincing me about how he wants me to feel and think. Is this the norm for an abused wife?

thanks, Danneill

me 43
H 46
D 22 (mine by previous M)
D 16 ours
Granddaughter 9 months
EA and possible PA suspected last year
H denies...I have no solid proof

my thread is With his dead friends wife?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Danneill:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Just some info from my own history. I miniminized my XH's behavior the whole time I was married to him. I went through a horrible four years after I divorced him. Now I am married to someone who is not at all abusive and I look back at what I put up with and think "Why? What was going through my brain?"
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear elspeth,

May I ask what you did put up with? Did he convince you that you brought it on yourself? that is was your fault or that you started it? Is your ex an alcoholic?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think my ex drinks more than is good for him, or did, but I don't know that I'd call him an alcoholic. Anyway, he wasn't always drinking when he was abusive. The time he actually beat me up (which led to my throwing him out and then divorcing him) he was definitely sober. Experts in domestic violence say that abusers don't abuse because they drink, but they do often drink to loosen their inhibitions about being abusive. There are alcoholics who are not abusive, and abusers who don't drink.

Anyway, as to what I put up with-calling me names, threatening me, throwing things-not at me, but more and more in my general direction, slamming on the car brakes when we were driving, breaking things, pushing me out of the house one night when it was cold and locking the door (he let me in a minute or two), asking me what it would take for me to get out-just generally acting like an overgrown and dangerous two year old.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyway, my question is, Is it me? Am I making a mountain out of a molehill. Should I just get over it every time it happens. The last time my 16 year old daughter and I locked ourselves in the bath until he crashed...Later he convinces me that it was not bad. and he denies things that he says...who's crazy here? Me or him?
Its like he has a power of convincing me about how he wants me to feel and think. Is this the norm for an abused wife?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You aren't crazy. He isn't crazy, either, but his behavior is wrong. No you should not "just get over it". He has no right to treat you the way he treats you. You shouldn't have to lock yourself in the bathroom to be safe in your own home from someone who supposedly loves you.

Men who abuse power do so because they can and because it works. They typically deny and miniminize their own behavior while exagerating their spouse's-so if you burn dinner or forget to pick up the dry cleaning, that's terrible, but if they throw shoes at you, they were just upset and you're making a big deal out of nothing.

There is a wonderful book called Getting Free by Ginny NiCarty. I recommend it highly.

Just a question:

Would you let your daughter marry a man like him?

I too had a *husband* (if you would call him that) who would say things like:
*You think this is yelling? I'll show you what yelling is.
*I never do anything to hurt you
*I have no idea what you're talking about (when we tried to discuss anything that was remotely different than what he believed)
*You're getting upset over nothing
*We've never had that conversation
*I wouldn't have done ______ if you didn't make me so mad
*I've had it with your *****ing
*You are stupid (lousy, an idiot, dumb, crazy (fill in the blank)
*All you married me for is my money (when asking for grocery money or money for the kids)

At the beginning of all of this, when I really felt I was a useless person who didn't deserve to live and that I was the one with all the problems and caused HIM to be so miserable....I read "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans. Through most of the pages I cried. It was like my life in a play by play throughout the pages. When I started sticking up for what I believed in and what every human being deserves (being respected, treated with dignity)---that is when the physical abuse began. Easter Sunday 1998 he raped me. I remember going to my parent's house for Easter Dinner and wishing I was dead.

Me killing myself over him was NEVER an option -- but I knew that in order to LIVE I had to take the next step.....to Freedom and blessed Peace. It's not about THEM -- it's about YOU and those kids of yours.

I guess I am lucky that he has not laid a hand on me. He did push me once years and years ago. I do believe that when in these drunken rampages he may get physical if I fight with him.

He has not always been a "mean" drunk. He used to be a happy drunk, and of course a "horney" drunk. He does not understand that I am not turned on in the slightest bit when he has been drinking. That is abuse in itself. Many of them become "marathon man". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I feel I have the right to a sober H during SF. It's my body, If he can't come home sober, then no SF. Of course he LIES, claims he did not drink a drop, but I always know the truth during SF.

That is another issue. H complains not enough SF. Well its a no brainer....come home sober..
Danneill

Hello to both of you,

I am a recovered alcoholic, 25 years without a drink.

You can't change what the drunk is doing, but you can change what you are doing. You are both talking about classic alcoholic symptoms, and you both sound like classic enablers. No active alcoholic can get away with his nonsense without the support of family,friends and co-workers who cover for him and protect him from the normal, natural consequences of his actions.

Deceptions and cons are very much a part of any addictive behavior. He doesn't see any problem with his drinking as long as he can con you into accepting it. Minimization and denial are the standard operating procedure for the alcoholic. That is where he lives.

No drunk ever woke up on a morning when the sun was shining and the birds were singing and decided that this is the day I will do something about my drinking problem. We go for help when we hit bottom, and are facing a crisis. That is why it is so important for the alcoholic to face the normal, natural consequences of his actions.

You might find it very helpful to get in touch with an Al-Anon family group.

For me, the verbal and emotional abuse was far worse -- especially the emotional abuse of his saying "she's calling me and it would be rude of me to hang up" while he was having an affair.

I would say that the only way someone stays in a relationship with an abuser is if they have faulty logic themselves: the logic that their behavior change will lead to behavior change in the other person.

The only healthy thing you can do is not tolerate it -- get away. It's up to the other person to change.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ....I read "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans. Through most of the pages I cried. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm glad I'm not the only one naming this book on MB. I cried too. For me it was too late to try the suggestions to counter the behavior.

I strongly recommend the book.

Double ditto on the bok. It is really worth it, and I cried too. I put up with it for 26 yeras. And when I realized he was getting worse, and was never going to get better. 26 years of crisis after crisis, each worse than the last. I started to take steps to protect myself.

While he was in detox (again) I enrolled back in college. I was more vocal about how that was not how he was going to treat me. And when he saw he was losing his control over me, that he couldnt bully me, verbally abuse me anymore, then he became more physically violent.

The verbal abuse no longer was working the way it used to, so he stepped it up a bit to see if he could gain back that control. When that didnt work, he drank and drugged even more.

One of the last things he did to me was rape me. He came home drunk. I was upset that he was out again and driving drunk..in his drunken state he assumed that I was upset because I wantred sex. That was the last thing I wanted from a drunk who smelled like a bar room floor.

I saw a therapist for about a year after he moved out. I still cry and wake up with nightmares when I think of that night. And in that year of therapy I beat myself up. Why could I have let that go on for so long.

I say get as far away from him as you can..it has gone on far too long already. You dont want to be under him when he hits rock bottom. Youll only get squashed.

You are not crazy, but he may drive you there if you continue in this relationship

best wishes,
Dawn

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bumperii:
<strong> Hello to both of you,

I am a recovered alcoholic, 25 years without a drink.

You can't change what the drunk is doing, but you can change what you are doing. You are both talking about classic alcoholic symptoms, and you both sound like classic enablers. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, no, we are talking about domestic abuse. Alcoholism is kind of a tangent in this thread because some people who abuse power also abuse alcohol. In fact, they often abuse alcohol to enable themselves to abuse their victims.

Women I know who have been abused by alcoholics have reported that when their abusers went through treatment for alcoholism, they became sober abusers. AA really does nothing to help members stop battering, because after all, that is not what it is designed to do. Batterers need to take that additional step of recognizing that they abuse other people and seeking help for that problem. It is certainly easier to do that sober than drunk, but it doesn't always happen.

But thanks for your concern.

You are right..My ex always had anger inside him (even when he was sleeping..it was always there). Just when he drank, it removed the inhibitions that normally restrained his actions.