first, the X is now throwing out of her house the boy she is dating. Yep, she believes that dating involves living together. . .

now i saw them 1 year ago together at a party at her house, and after one minute, i knew he was a loser. . . but hey, its not my life anymore. . .

so finally, a year later, after he had been using her by living with her. . (he had no other place to live, he had been evicted from his apartment and lost his job) he has been discovered dating other women. . .

horrors! such a fitting ending to such a smart wayward spouse. . .

12 year old daughter had to tell her mom that "If X lets billy boy back in the house, daughter is never going to speak to her again!" ROTFLMAO!!!!!

then awhile back, i told daughter that now that sufficient time had past for the hurt to go away, i wanted to know what the ijiot X told daughter why she divorced me. . . so daughter said that she had already asked, and so tonight she told my what the X said the reasons were:

But first daughter asked me, what reason did you have to get divorced? My response:

1) i didn't, it was mom's idea.
2) X told me the reasons were:
i was too rich
i was too independent
because her parents should have gotten a divorce, we are getting a divorce. .

those were the only three reasons i was ever given. . .

X's reasons that she told daughter:

1) i wanted to be rich.
2) i played / worked on the computer at night instead of watching tv. (most times it was for my job, but yes, i was working hard trying to save for college and education costs. . . )
3) after X told me, X said that i tried but in X's mind, its just too late, too late. . .

daughters response? "what are you kidding me??"
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

yep, so I asked daughter, "So now will X like me more now that i am poor and broke?" we giggled a bit about that, and i then firmly told her that money status has nothing to do with liking someone. . . and that alot of the money was to go for vacation trips and college education. . .

so we had a good time, and i am definately going to date my daughter to give her an image of what a good date should be. . .

anyway, X is involving our kids in way too much drama, but that is what X needs, drama to feel alive, and that is how her family grew up, with lots of drama. . . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

so hard work and success is punished by the envious, the jealous and the one's of low self esteem. . .

wiftty

Wiffty,

If I understand correctly, I'm glad things are working out for you and your daughter. I understand that has been a concern for you.

Tony
Even if I divorce, I'll have a positve net worth, LOL

Wiffty:

I AM happy that you got "some" closure here. And I am even happy that you got a little "justice" too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

At least you can see this wasn't about YOU. She is obviously repeating steps 1 - 4, over and over again. Sad to watch huh?

However my friend, I will not let this go ...
(you wouldn't) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
then awhile back, i told daughter that now that sufficient time had past for the hurt to go away, i wanted to know what the ijiot X told daughter why she divorced me. . . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope. It is NEVER NEVER NEVER appropriate to discuss this information with a child. Period. There is nothing you can say to justify it. You say "sufficient time had past for the hurt to go away". From who? You? Your daughter? Both?

Maybe for you Wiffty, but not for the daughter. When parents discuss the details of the divorce ESPECIALLY when one spouse is painted in a less favorable light (however DESERVED) it sets up a conflict in the mind of a child. Kids want to love and esteem BOTH parents and even if they paint on a happy confident face for YOU, you can bet they are also doing the same thing for the other person. It causes great confusion in their minds.

Not until about age 18 or so do they have the capacity to understand things from more of a mature level.

At this age she is still thinking; "all good, or ALL bad". Kids have black and white thinking. No matter HOW mature they are.

Wiffty, judging from her Daddy, I would venture to say you have a bright young lady there. However she is STILL a child.

I am only lashing you with a wet noodle on this one because I think the temptation to ask was just too timely, however, as I say, I call a spade a spade on this one.

I just wrote to another gal on here "my son wants his dad to die" (or something like that) and I gave her my manifesto on this too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

We have to take the high road as parents on this one if we want our kids to grow up with a reasonably healthy concept in life.

But!!! I give you a standing ovation for taking your daughter out on dates to model a good date! Wow! Fantastic Wiffty... I really respect you for that one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

DZZZ

here is the problem diamonzz,

my X is VERY VERY VERY gender biased, to the point of telling out son that no matter what disagreement he has with his sister, his sister is always right. . .

well, how do you think my son feels? he told me this past weekend, that daughter needs to get away from her mom and to get a real life. . .

there are little hints of mauchovian's disorder, whatever its called, where a parent keeps a child dependent or sick so that the parent can be considered the hero or caretaker. . .

its disgusting, and in order to combat that very, very biased view, which she learned from her FOO, i will point out the fallacies in the approaches fo the witch. . . sorry. . . you lose.. . .

wiftty

oh, i figured out the money part. . . because X wants to very much to be wanted, she uses the money argument instead of saying no as a parent. . . therefore she then assigns money as the deciding factor whenever she wants to control a potential situation. . . now we had plenty of money, and therefore, she lost her control maneuvers. . .

she assigns money as power in a relationship, that is why she started dating a guy that was jobless and homeless. . .

makes sense to me. . .

and right now, daughter refuses to use the computer, do you think it might has something to do with the fact that if she kicked me out because i used the computer, she might do the same to the daughter??

wiffty

Wiffty,

I personally think there is a vast difference between standing in the gap for your children when you have to have hard discussions about "truth", and using children to get your own informational needs met.

I sit corrected if that is not what you were doing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am very passionate about that sort of thing for many personal reasons.

Munchausen by Proxy???? Wow. Can a person have just touches of that? Isn't that like being pregnant? You either are or your not?

Are you considering going for full time custody? Even as I ask this I realize that this isn't something that is easy to do.

I know in the case of my own boys my ex and I were given joint custody but because my kids were older teens by that time the judge left the order open for the kids to decide for themselves.

It was a terrible abuse of the system because my boys were torn and ended up care taking my ex to the point of their own security. They told me at one point: "Dad needs us Mom, he can't LIVE without us". "You are fine alone." So I have
some experience with a manipulator. He also used our kids for his own gain and yes FOO issues were at play here too.

I am hoping your children are not played like that.

I know for me, I just tried my hardest to remain solid, stable, and model that for them
no matter how much my ex's life spun out of control. Your kids sound younger than mine were though, which makes a little difference.

At first I would tell my children EXACTLY what he was doing, but over time and some family
counseling, I learned that the best thing was to hold my tongue and wait for the children
to be mature enough to see it for themselves.

My oldest is 20 now and he finally sees. Or he is beginning to let's say. The thing is though I have not dishonored their Father to them and I am so glad now that I took THAT route than the one
I was headed for initially.

I feel for you Wiffty, must be very hard.


DZZZ

<small>[ February 26, 2004, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Diamonzzz ]</small>

Thrifty Wifty (ha..neato nickname..),

Sorry for the idiotic rantings of your x...but that's what they do best.

My x told people that the reason we got divorced was because "WE DRIFTED APART". Yea. That can happen when one partner starts sleeping around. I don't think that arguement works too well as people will hear him say the "we drifted apart" crud and then they'll ask him how long has he been divorced or either how long has he been remarried and the truth will slip out...He will either have to say that he's been divorced not quite two months (with 8 mo preggers wife) or that he's been remarried for almost 2 mos now (with 8 1/2 mo. preggers wife).

See. I dont hafta do anything. It just rears its ugly head all by itself. And of course she'd say stupid things like that.

Your daughter is for sure being fed lies by x. And that's ok. What I do is only answer questions directly thrown at me. And carefully. You can't be untruthful or evading to children..kids need at least one parent to teach them how to be responsible and people of their word.

I just wouldn't elaborate on most of it and when daughter asks a question, answer it and then move on.

Hey Peachy,

Good advice IMO. You HAVE to answer some questions. But just the facts ma'am.

I liked what you said .. "then just move on".

I am afraid I sounded a little unrealistic. THIS topic WILL come up and our kids WILL ask ..
but I think waiting till they ask is better than to initiate a conversation ..

And yep, the ex will do a good job of discrediting themselves, but I still think we have to stay well behind that fine line of contributing to it.....that's all I was trying to say.

OMG so many times I wanted to scream to my kids "Do you know what a A@@ your Father is!!!" But I resisted the urge. I wanted those boys to have some respect for their Father. (now we are not talking about a WS here though.. so the "rules" are different) but just the same he was being HORRIBLE to me and lying the kids about his behaviour.

I had to bite my tongue so many times to NOT tell all, that I think my tongue has a permanent gash in it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />


DZZZ

Hey, Wiftty! I wanted to let this one sit with me before I responded. I wonder what your daughter thinks are the “real” reasons you ended up divorced. Not that you can ask her.

I think I understand your concern. It’s hard to see your flesh and blood learning values you disagree with. One can hope they’ll reflect and choose their own value set later in life. But there’s that nagging thought “What if they don’t?” What if X so inundates them that they never see clearly?

Good news, it looks like your daughter is growing her mind in spite of her mother’s best efforts to quash it.

Ms. D,

I pry only when major issues arise that need a clear headed second opinion. . . otherwise, i say very, very little. . .

no, i do not pump for information. . . however, if the kids are upset, then i will ask so that they can open up. . . after talking for quite awhile about this particular incident, two nights later, my daughter says that she might want to be a shrink, a talk doctor when she grows up. . .

now that was interesting. . .

anyway, she has benefitted greatly by getting MORE THAN ONE OPINION. . .

and i have also helped them interpret my X's actions, as well as telling them how to better get along with her. . . I sat up here at my computer, and discussed how to make X's perimenopause ride a bit easier, and how the kids are to help her out. . . so they also know that I might listen to them, and i probably will support the X when she is right, and give them a different opinion when I disagree. . . but seldom, very seldom, do i meddle, . . .

wiftty

Munchhausen Syndrome By Proxy

That is when the parent/guardian, quite typically a mother, relies upon the illness of a child in which to gain sympathy, respect, acknowledgement, etc. Some go the to such lengths, that at our local children's hospital, recently there was a woman who injected tiny amounts of feces into her child's IV, in order to keep her child hospitalized and her 'drama' of being the 'good mother' going. They caught her on video tape.

Some people are just so mentally unstable in some ways, and yet can hold it together in other ways. It truly is amazing...