</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BonnieSept:
<strong> I married the OM six years ago. I was the OW. His ex and my ex are now both re-married. For us I could not imagine my being still married to my ex. It's been so many years now it's hard to even remember a lot of things. I think it's rare for it to happen and even more rare for it to be better the second time around but it does happen. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was a BS first before I was the WS. Was with my ex-W for 10 years. Have been w/ OW for 3 years now - she had been married for 6 years. Neither of us had any children. I also have a hard time remembering lots of the details of life w/ my ex-w.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by daoren:
I was a BS first before I was the WS. Was with my ex-W for 10 years. Have been w/ OW for 3 years now - she had been married for 6 years. Neither of us had any children. I also have a hard time remembering lots of the details of life w/ my ex-w. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well this certainly sucks. Just another great aspect of being a BS - we fight to forget while the WS struggles with remembering anything. Ughhh ...

Please don't take personal offense Daoren. Just me trying to learn, although sometimes it does still hurt.

Jo

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Resilient:
Well this certainly sucks. Just another great aspect of being a BS - we fight to forget while the WS struggles with remembering anything. Ughhh ...

Please don't take personal offense Daoren. Just me trying to learn, although sometimes it does still hurt.

Jo [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No offense taken. I've been on both sides of that fence and neither side is fun. I was pretty pissed off about being the BS because my ex-w would always say "It's always the guy that cheats." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> After her A, we did just about everything wrong, and by the time I found myself in my A about 4 years later, I didn't give a hairy rat's behind. FWIW, I would have ended up getting a divorce even without the A.

I know what you mean about trying to forget - I can still remember all of the things my ex-W wrote to her OM in her emails... the things they wanted to do to each other, etc. blech. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

<small>[ March 03, 2004, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: daoren ]</small>

Hey Carlajo, I have a question for you...

In you r first post onthis topic, you hit on something very close to my heart at the moment. That is the other person being around your kids. My WW brings her boyfriend around my kids all the time, we are not even divorced yet. Last night I stopped into the local pizza joint, as I didn't feel like cooking for myself, and who do you suppose is there? Yeah, my WW and the OM...with MY KIDS!!! He has a 7 yo daughter that my kids really like, and they tell me how nice Tom is to them. He even bought them christmans presents that my WW had the total lack of class to bring to my house. How do you handle this? How can you NOT fly into a rage when you know that your kids are around this other person.

Any tips on dealing with this would help. Right now we share the kids 50/50, but we are in a custody battle for full custody. The courts and the law say it doesn;t matter that she is doing this... they trust her judgement. I hate this, I wouldn't mind divorcing her if it weren't for the kids... I hate what this is doing to them.

What can I do... both for them and for me to deal with the OM?

I,like Bonnie married the OM. We've been officially 'together" since my divorce in 2001 and married last July. Both his ex and my ex are remarried also.

I spent a good portion of my time in the beginning obsessing about the past....harboring regret and anger <I was a BS too>...comparing the two relationships. I've finally learned to let go of the past and focus on having a healthy marriage, DESPITE it's unhealthy, immoral beginnings. From reading this forum, I know many out there don't believe that's possible, but in some cases affair marriages do work out. Neither my ex nor myself can imagine not being with our respective spouses now.

Bleeeech.

I am sorry but this is yuck.

"I've finally learned to let go of the past and focus on having a healthy marriage, DESPITE it's unhealthy, immoral beginnings. From reading this forum, I know many out there don't believe that's possible, but in some cases affair marriages do work out. Neither my ex nor myself can imagine not being with our respective spouses now."

Jeez. Rationalizations. I like the part about it being UNHEALTHY AND IMMORAL in the beginning...But Presto! FORGET ABOUT WHAT YOU DID AND NOW IT'S A HEALTHY MARRIAGE! I am sure your former spouses would say otherwise. I am wondering why you're here surfing on the d/d column if it's so darn happy .

Affair marriages can work out...but their LIFESPAN IS SHORT.

LIke today...my xh sent me some emails the other day about politics..I am officer in large area group with political ties. He sends email (a forward)and I send him an email back thanking him and with a nice quote from a well-known columnist. We don't have much contact...

Buttttt.

I get ironically at time when xh is out with my son, an email supposedly from him asking "why did you send this?"...then immediately five minutes later I get the same email forwarded to me from the email addy of his new OWW...Da Wistress.

If life's so wonderful and they're sooooo in looooove, then WHY IS SHE HIJACKING HIS EMAILS AND WRITING TO ME? Easy. You always look over your shoulders when you are a cheater. If they could do it to the person they promised Before GOD to love, honor, respect, and cherish, then they'd do it to the OP/new spouse.

Matter of time my dear. Matter of time. And if you do manage staying together, one day YOU WILL FACE YOUR CREATOR ABOUT THIS LITTLE MATTER.

Wish I could just pat you on the back and say "way to go adulterers"...BUT I CAN'T. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

From Peachy:

"Bleeeech.

I am sorry but this is yuck.

"I've finally learned to let go of the past and focus on having a healthy marriage, DESPITE it's unhealthy, immoral beginnings. From reading this forum, I know many out there don't believe that's possible, but in some cases affair marriages do work out. Neither my ex nor myself can imagine not being with our respective spouses now."

Jeez. Rationalizations. I like the part about it being UNHEALTHY AND IMMORAL in the beginning...But Presto! FORGET ABOUT WHAT YOU DID AND NOW IT'S A HEALTHY MARRIAGE! I am sure your former spouses would say otherwise. I am wondering why you're here surfing on the d/d column if it's so darn happy .

Affair marriages can work out...but their LIFESPAN IS SHORT."

Not at all surprised by Peachy's response as I follow her story from time to time. The fact is a person who winds up marrying their affair partner will likely always be scoffed at by a person who's been through betrayal. If I didn't acknowledge that an affair was immoral, I'd still be considered 'foggy', <or much worse> and if I do concede a marriage based on an affair had an immoral start but can still work, I'm guilty of rationalizing.

I've been an avid marriage builder follower for a couple years, <wished I'd found it earlier> and will probably continue to peruse it for years to come. As I said I'm focusing on having a healthy marriage and the principles here can be applied to ANY marriage ....even the "doomed second marriages" as seen by those severely burned like Peachy.

As for affair marriage lifespans being short....stats will probably confirm that. Stats for first time marriages are also pretty pathetic. Time will tell.

A direct quote:

"I'm NOT having an affair!! I'm in love with (OM)!!! WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND???"

She married the non-OM 5 months after our divorce. To this day she still denies she had an affair. I guess, since infidelity wasn't involved, this marriage has a better chance, huh?

<small>[ March 03, 2004, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Who's Hurting Now:
I've been an avid marriage builder follower for a couple years, <wished I'd found it earlier> and will probably continue to peruse it for years to come.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WHN: me too. I've applied many of the MB concepts to my current marriage in the hopes of not making the same mistakes I made with the first. Yeah. I screwed up with my first marriage. Hopefully I can learn someting from my past mistakes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Who's Hurting Now wrote:
I've finally learned to let go of the past and focus on having a healthy marriage, DESPITE it's unhealthy, immoral beginnings. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WHN,

Can you tell me how you're accomplishing the above. How are you reconciling the past and your part in the demise of your previous marriage, yet able to focus on building a healthy new marriage? Have you made mends with your ex? Have you two talked and do you feel any degree of remorse and expressed that remorse to your former spouse?

I'm basing these questions on what I would need to do in order to find some peace within myself if I were (in theory) in your shoes.

Jo

<small>[ March 03, 2004, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Want My Wife Back:

I definitely feel your pain over seeing your W's new boyfriend with your kids. That sucks. And it sucks that you can't do anything to stop it. I insisted on a no overnight guest clause in our final settlement papers, OW and exH don't live together, but outside that you can't do much of anything legally to stop him being around your kids. I'm really sorry.

I was lucky(?) that my exH waited awhile before bringing her around our son. We were separated just a few months (well before I finally filed) when my son came home one Saturday from being with his dad talking about "daddy's friend." I blew up at that, and told then-H that it was too soon for son, and too painful for me to have this woman who destroyed my marriage introduced to my son. At that time I still had hope for the marriage, and him dating - especially her - felt like a punch in the stomach. I felt like they were all off playing family, going to the zoo and playing in the park, just as though I never even existed! Just as though it didn't matter that I was grieving and still trying everything possible to salvage my family.

Even though he didn't legally have to, exH had the decency to agree and I don't believe OW was included in any activities until just the last few months, well after divorce was final. (EA started 6/01, we separated 3/02, divorce final 5/03).

You asked how I handle it. Sometimes I handle it very well - remain supportive and enthusiastic when my 4 year old talks about doing things with her, or even when we read a story about Snow White and he tells me that "Miss Julia" is pretty like the Princess Snow White. Uggggg. I have to admit I get pissy with exH whenever her name is mentioned or the subject comes up, but never in front of son. I want very much for my son to have the adults in his life get along, and I want to spare him the tension of hostility among us as he grows up. As it looks like she's going to be around for awhile, I try to put aside my hurt and anger because I think it is easier for him.

But I still hate her. I'm glad she is good to my child, but I wish she didn't exist. As much as I didn't want the divorce, still love my exH (though I'm working on this), I think I'd handle a new girlfriend better than this woman who carried on at least an EA with H prior to our separation (he denies PA until he moved out). I blame exH far more, but she didn't help the situation at all. So far I have resisted the urge to confront her, cuss her out, or otherwise acknowledge her presence. If they really marry, I suppose I'll have to be in the same room with her at some point (something I've been spared up to this point), and then I'll be civil because that is the grown up thing to do and because of my son.

I'm grateful I've so far avoided the scene of exH, OW and son eating pizza like some Kodak commercial!!! I'm sooo sorry that happened to you. My ex getting married so soon just seems like a slap in the face to me, another very clear signal that the marriage didn't mean to him what it meant to me. Frankly, I don't need another reminder.

My H moved out of our house and immediately into the OW's. Supposedly he married her less than a year after the divorce was final, but interestingly his W-2 over a year later still listed his marital status as single.

My kids have said that he spends a lot of his time sitting in front of the computer, playing solitaire. The OW sends emails to me, pretending to be him, but does a really crummy job if she is trying to imitate his writing style. She limits the amount of time my H is allowed to spend with his children, and I have seen him purposely avoid calling her to say he would be late when he wanted to do something kid-related, so she couldn't complain in advance. She has managed to antagonize all of our younger kids, casting aspertions on my almost adult son's masculinity, stomping off in anger when my little, language-disabled child inadvertently says something that upsets her - it is interesting that she has managed to shoot herself in the foot with respect to my children by acting in ways that I could never have even predicted. Our two older children have nothing whatsoever to do with their father; one has not even spoken to him in 5 years.

If my H and the OW's relationship is a healthy one, I'd hate to see an unhealthy one.

Nelly1:

That is horrible! What a wretched awful woman. Your poor kids... I can't imagine being so insecure that I'd want to come between my husband and his children. I'm glad for your kids that they have at least one stable, mature parent. Shame on her for being so awful, and shame on your exH for allowing that sort of behavior.

My son (24) just told me tonite that, a few weeks ago when X told son he was engaged and wanted OW to meet all his children, that son would like her....

Son said "I dont ever want to meet her and dont ever ask again for me to meet her. If you want to continue having any kind of contact with me you will respect my wishes"

I had such mixed emotions about it. It is all still too sad. X just threw away a great family, 4 great kids, for what? I dont know, Im still too dumbfounded. Pizza on Sunday for 45 minutes isnt what our family was about. X cant be happy with this life. It is so against all he and I worked to instill in our children,but then that was all an illusion too. I was the classic enabler..hiding his drug use from them. Hiding all the abuse and he still shows absolutely no remorse for anything he ever did, all the abuse and lies.

Fortunately I am past that. My life from here on out is mine to make it the best it can be. And I have 4 great kids backing me up, cheering me through school, laughing with me at the dinner table, and, yes, even having good times with the new man in my life <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Smiles,
Dawn

Wow. I guess I am more surprised than I should be at how many WS completely disregard their children's feelings about divorce and a quick remarriage. Sunrise, I'm glad that you have moved on to a new relationship. You certainly deserve better than your ex.

And I am surprised at how many WS actually marry the OP. Whether the marriage survives or not, the number of affair marriages is higher than I expected.

Thanks for all the replies. I don't feel so alone, and actually feel a little relieved that my ex isn't the biggest butt-hole out there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
A direct quote:

"I'm NOT having an affair!! I'm in love with (OM)!!! WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND???"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please allow me to translate:

"I'm NOT having an affair!!" = "This is not FAKE!!"

"I'm in love with (OM)!!!" = "This is REAL!!!"

"WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND???" = "PLEASE STOP MAKING ME JUSTIFY MYSELF AND MY WRONG DOING"

Dupe post. Sorry.

<small>[ March 03, 2004, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Carlajo-

My kids are 4 and 2, my 2 yo doesn't really have a sense of whats going on... he is the one that tells me Tom is nice. My 4 yo cries every time he has to go to my WW's apartment, then when there... he cries and tells me he wants to come home with me everytime I call to say goodnight to him. It rips me apart to have this happening to them. I con't understand why my WW has to do this... why is she so blind to what this is doing to the kids?

She has been bringing them around this guy since day one, she lies to me about it when I confront her about it and simply doesn't acknowledge that this is at all bad for the kids. She gets combative whenever I ask her to stop doing this. I don't know what to do about it... my attorney says that until the heraring (which is scheduled for sometime in April) there isn't anything I can do. It really bothers me... like you said... that they go about playing "family" as if I didn't even exist.

I admit that I married the OW after divorcing my EX of 16 years of marriage. First off, I will say I wasn't happy with my EX. But in retrospect, I realize that what I did was very selfish and I didn't have the right to stray. I should have 1. tried to work things out. 2. If that didn't work then I could have divorced her.

One issue that continues to surface is that I realize that my new wife and I don't really trust each other. I had that with my EX and I will tell anyone, that is priceless. The new wife is very insecure. She says she just misses me so much when I'm at work, but I'm slowly realizing that she doesn't trust me when I'm away from her. We love each other, but I'm starting to get scared that I will resent her later on. About a year ago the OWtold me I could see my sons anytime I want (which I do). But now she starting to say things which indicate that she may be changing her mind.

The other is that although we divorced about a year and a half ago, I still have tremendous guilt about the divorce(mostly my relationship with my sons). I know it was very hard on them and I really don't think we'll ever be as close as we were. Both of them are cold with me, but my youngest does open up more when we get to spend time alone together. I think some of it has to do with the ex saying negative things about me and my wife. I try to overlook a lot of things when I knew that I put myself in this situation.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that affairs aren't fair to anyone and I'm not sure many relationships after the affair work out for the long term. I'm hoping mine does, but only time and some adjustments by each of us will tell.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Guilt Is My Name wrote:
One issue that continues to surface is that I realize that my new wife and I don't really trust each other. I had that with my EX and I will tell anyone, that is priceless. The new wife is very insecure. She says she just misses me so much when I'm at work, but I'm slowly realizing that she doesn't trust me when I'm away from her. We love each other, but I'm starting to get scared that I will resent her later on. About a year ago the OWtold me I could see my sons anytime I want (which I do). But now she starting to say things which indicate that she may be changing her mind.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi GIMN,

I can imagine that most the BS here are feeling a small degree of vindication when reading what you wrote above. I'm sorry, but I can't say that I feel too much empathy for the situation you put yourself in.

I just don't understand why someone would marry an affair partner when clearly that person doesn't respect marriage.

I do thank you for your honesty though. It's not easy baring your soul here especially when you're a WS in a sea of BS.

Jo