WIWH,

First off, what you did was not a Lovebuster. It didn’t fall into selfish demand, angry outburst, dishonesty, disrespectful judgments, etc.

Just because she didn’t like it, doesn’t mean a darn thing. POJA went out the window when she decided to divorce you.

And so what if she’s mad?

I suggest you have all of her paycheck deposited into your own account and she can submit an itemized list of expenses with receipts every two weeks which you will reimburse out of your hard-earned money.

If her expenses fluctuate too much… the answer is not that she can’t give you a figure. She should average the expenses, then in a month with lower expenses, she saves for the months with higher expenses.

Exactly how does she think alimony and child support will work in the future?

BTW, you did not do a thing wrong in not telling her about opening a new account. It would have been wrong to have all your pay directed to your personal account without telling her. She does need to know when she can expect money and how much.

I still don’t get why she thinks she’ll get alimony. These days only high-powered execs with spouses who run their entire personal lives have to pay alimony. I know you don’t want to spend the money on a lawyer, but if she’s going for alimony, I think you may be better off hiring an attorney now, than paying for years and years.

Unless you think she’ll remarry quickly. Alimony ceases upon remarriage. Hers, not yours. Yep, I think you better do a cost analysis on the attorney versus alimony.


AS FOR THE BUDGET: Give her the bare minimum. And figure out your own budget. Remember you'll need to feed the children when they're at your house, plus you may want to purchase some clothes and toys/games for them. And you'll be paying for your own Christmas and birthday gifts this year. Additionally, you need to clothe yourself, pay for doctors, car, gas, electric, etc.

And don't forget that you are paying for their health care out of your paycheck. Make sure that is counted as part of your contribution.

Then, armed with that budget and her response, you two can start discussions on who pays the co-pay for dentists, doctors, etc. What extra activities the kids will do, and how much you can spend and who pays for what.

The extras like music lessons, ice hockey, right down the line can be a major bone of contention. Make sure you iron out either a max you are willing to spend on those things or a way to negotiate decisions on those activities.

Hired Help,

W is still at home with kids but all bills are paid from my check. She pays them from our joint account and I get what's left to try to survive. This is one reason I'm making the changes. I need a set income, no matter how little it is for now.

GG
Most costs like what you have mentioned will be waiting for an actual settlemet. Hopefully through mediators.

I plan on sending her a spreadsheet of her expenses tonight. With it I will basically be giving her an offer and making it clear that it will be a temporary arangement untill we can sell out house and work out a settlement.

The alimony thing will wait for more permanent discussions.

This, for now, is just to help me get the ball rolling in my independence.

W, I don’t think you should do her expenses for her. I really don’t.

That is her chore, not yours. Your chore is to do your own spreadsheet of your expenses.

And some expenses may be able to wait like buy a new car, but others can’t like paying the loan on the old car.

And I know you hope to use a mediator. But I’m worried. This woman is not playing nice. She expects to have her cake and eat it too! The primary example is she doesn’t have to deal with you, but still gets as much money from you as she wants. That’s unreasonable.

I still think you should deposit your entire paycheck into your personal account and then provide her with a check for the household expenses. You can even make it as much as she usually gets, though I bet a lawyer would be against giving her what she had in the past.

But, hand her a physical check. A physical check says this: This is my money that I’m giving you to contribute to raising the children. This is not something you are “entitled” to just because.

And if she needs more, she can explain to you were the money went and what she needs more money for.

GG,
I understand what you mean but my figuring her expenses is just the household expenses. Mortgage, car loan, elect, etc...

Anything beyond that will have to come from the little extra I am willing to let her have for now and what she will have to ask me for. Such as Vet bills, new shoes, cloths etc....

Staying with the direct deposit is simply for my convenience and to help me avoid contact with her. I think things will be easier for me if I don't need to be around her. Hopefully I'll stop missing her soooo much.

I still think that I should give her a little credit to stick to her word on the mediator. I need to see how she starts reacting from loosing controll of all our money first. Then I will have to make a judgement on how much I realy trust her.

Again, You and I are coming at this from diferent directions and I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

Non the less, keep pounding the sense into me. Eventually I'll get the hint.

WIWH, I don’t think we’re coming from such different directions. I’m just one of those people who likes to prepare for the worst. Hopefully your wife will play fair. And if she does, and you both are willing to get creative and make some changes, I think a mediator will work out very well.

And I’m sure my own bias is playing into this. A mediator would be the kiss of death for me because my STBX debates very well, and I’d end up giving in to very thing he wanted.

And ultimately, the decisions are yours. And you have the information needed to make the decisions.

My xh walked out on mediator b/c he was unwilling to listen to reason...your stbxw might do that as well.

I'd say retain lawyer and do easiest d at all possible.

You did not LB at all. Just like exposing A isn't LB either. It's another way to reveal the truth.

What I have come to learn is that many wS live in a fantasy world with their OP...meanwhile, they want us to be the ones left to pick up the tab, take care of the kids, do the laundry, and give them money. Or in my case, let them take the money. When we give any bit of reality to them about financial responsibility or doing the right thing, they will resist and resist. Eating large amounts of cake can make the brain not work too well I imagine.

Personally, I stopped allowing him to get by with that crud and made him have to be accountable...took four rounds in court for him to get it that he had to pay me each month. I honestly believe the WS thinks it is all about them and that we should just "admit how we made them cheat" or do whatever made them foggy, and then give up all our worldly possessions to them and go live a life of celibacy and poverty...

Arrrrrgh.

Get the attorney. Do it right so you don't have to deal with this or pay for this anymore.

Give her absolute minimums. She is demanding her freedom so let her have it. She wanted out. She had A. Let the other person involved support her.

And trust me, alimony ends upon remarriage. I got some and child support, but it was far less than what the state figures I should have gotten..but it's better than some. whenever I remarry, Jethro will do a happy dance..not much he will save , but it can support the clothes habit of his new W...

WishI WereHome,

I'm assuming you have already moved out of the home right?

based on that--you have every right to stop your direct deposit going to the joint account--

But--figure out about how much *Child Support* you will be required to pay--and continue to have that amount directly deposited into the joint account--that way she can't come back later and say you haven't been supporting your kids--

you no longer need to support her--only the kids--and she will need to go out and get a job--and if that means she is going to have to pay for day care--then so be it--

I was a SAHM--who also had an EA--when my ex said he would have to stop the direct deposit to the joint account--I said Okay--do what you have to do--I'll go out and get a job--no biggy--He actually got angry--

because his motives for doing so were different than your's--his were based on manipulation--he didn't want me to go out and get a job--He wanted me to accept things in the marriage as they were--his being out of town working, drinking, and doing whatever he pleased and my being home alone with the kids--with no emotional or physical support from him--He was willing to give the money--but not his time--I wanted his time--not his money--I could get my own job and make my own money--if that's all I wanted--

I wanted him to find another job and actually be home--as a daily thing--so when he said he'd have to change his allotment--I was okay with it--because it showed me He didn't want the same type of marriage I did--he really didn't want to be here--so I let him and his money go--

He continued sending money to support the kids--
he sent about $300 a week--which is about what his child support has continued to be--

In my case--it's not that I wanted the divorce--but I was willing to give everything up including the money--as I said--it wasn't about the money--it was about the neglect--and not having an emotionally or physically fullfilling marriage--


So think about this--does she really want the divorce? Or does she just want things in your marriage to change?

If she's really wanting the divorce--she would be out looking for a job or she would already have one--so maybe you should ask her that--

Are you really wanting the divorce? because with the divorce comes these things--

You can no longer be a SAHM--

I will no longer be supporting you so that you can stay home--so you will need to go get yourself a job--

I will continue to deposit X amount of $'s into the joint account to support the kids--as would be required by law--but this is how it's going to have to be--

So you need to think about it--is this REALLY want you want? or is it that you just want things to change within our marriage? Because if it's the latter--then we can do that--once OM is out of the picture--and not before--

Thanks al of you for your input.

You give me a lot to think about.

There are, however, a few things I need to clear up.

STBXW did not have an A. Maybe fantisized about somthing better but that is about it. I know this, and not just because she said so. You will all need to just trust me on that. And I didn't need the PI and we'll leave it at that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

We agreed that we would not make any definitive financial arrangements untill we sell our house. At that point, all of what each of you are saying will happen.

House needs a little work before it can go on the market so I'm looking at early spring, which is very soon.

I need to be very carefull of what I do because she is caring for the 4 most important things in my life and I cannot turn their lives upside down because of her.

GG,
I mean that were coming at D in general from different directions. You and I are on opposite sides of the D fence.

Also, You don't give into everything anymore, Remember. I'm just waiting on the word to help with those books.

Peachy,
I agree with the fantasy world thing. I don't know what she will do when reality hits her.

And your right, she wanted out, she wanted her freedom, she just wants me to pay for it. This is basically what I told her when I said that it wasn't right for her to ask for alimony.

She also complained about me getting the freedom and privacy that she is looking for. I made it clear that she forced me into a free private life against my will.(She did'nt like that either)

Thorned rose,

I've been out for 6 mo's now. Sh ehas made it quite clear to me that her mind is made up and this is what she wants. I refuse to ask her if she is sure anymore.

The way I see it is if she had the b@lls to tell me that this is what she wanted, then she can use those same b@lls to tell me that she was wrong if it ever comes to that.

We have 1 DD that home schools, and 1 not in school yet. 1 in school all day, 1 in school 1/2 day.

They will all need to go to school all day and the little DD will be in daycare so she can get a full time job.

Me and 2 counselors have told her that but she just don't get it.

Anyway, I'm getting a little off track of my original post. All I am trying to do for now is regain controll of my paycheck with as little imediate change as possible. The changes will start to come as we progress down this road that she chose for us.

Again thank you all for your support and advice, You guys keep me going through the worst I've ever been through.

WIWH

Hmm. WIWH, how about something like Plan B? There’s a risk, it’s true. But… what if Thorned Rose is correct and your wife would rather be happily married to you than get divorced and have to go to work?

I say this because your wife hasn’t dealt with the reality yet. In a Plan B scenario, one thing you want is to allow your spouse to feel all the repercussions of a permanent separation. In your case, it would be the financial aspect.

Just going to throw this in. What if you renege on the agreement not to deal with the financial stuff until you sell your house? Selling your house is months off, or more. If you renege, and only support the children, forcing her to get a good asap, there is a chance, albeit slight, that your wife will change her mind about the divorce.

The risk could be that she’d try to alienate the children.

I just don’t understand people who decide to get divorced but expect to retain at least half the perqs of being married.

GG ,
Im not ready to take the risk of going that far yet.I have stopped contact and am changing control of money back to me.

I'll see how she responds to this before I decide on my next step.

This alone will be more reality than she has seen yet.

Besides, I'm not sure that I want her to change her mind anymore. She will need to do a lot more than that.

Spoke to STBXW tonight and told her that we needed to reach an agreement by the weekend of how much money each of us can get by on so I can have my direct deposit changed before next pay period.

She acted like she had no idea that I wanted to do this. Got very irritated with me about it and very resistant to discuss it again.

This was after we discussed a mediateor that she called today. Made us an appointment 2 weeks from now.

I told her that I sent her an e-mail with a spreadsheet of her houshold bills and how much I would be depositting in our joint account for her. I asked her to look it over and let me know what she thinks so we can come to an agreement.

She said she would look at it but will not agree to anything at this point.

If she won't work with me, I'll take on the responsibility myself, wether she likes it or not.

Hired Help,

A suggestion--if you want to ensure the car payment is made--and you if can afford it, if she get's physical custody of any children--ask that you make the car payment as part of your child support--

Example--if the car payment is $250 a month--and the child support is $1000--you make the car payment and reduce the actual amount she get's in hand--

WishI WereHome,

If you don't have a lawyer get one--and have them go to the mediation with you--

That is what my ex and I did--it actually worked out pretty good--our lawyers were the one's going back and forth--

My lawyer would come in--explain what they were wanting--give her opinion based on what is the norm--what is acceptable and what is not--if it wasn't reasonable--we countered w/ something else-
if it was she let them know--it was acceptable--

And his lawyer did the same--

I could hear the two of them going round and round in the other room--but at least it wasn't my ex and I--going round and round--and both getting angry--and saying things that were mean and hateful to each other--

I wouldn't recommend anyone going into mediation without a lawyer present--only because you know that you have someone else there to discuss the issues over with--who knows what is reasonable and what isn't--

My ex wanted to be able to claim all three kids on his taxes--I said no way--but I'd be willing to let him claim one of them--I'd claim the oldest and youngest--he could claim the middle they all live with me--the oldest will be in college in a few years--so I won't be claiming her much longer--

I'm not sure when you moved out of your home--but in all reality--if you moved out last year--if you haven't already filed your taxes--she could file taxes as single head of household even though your not legally divorced yet--and claim all of your children as her dependants--and you not see any of that money--(she doesn't even have to use YOUR income if she files without you)
and when you go to file you wouldn't be able to claim any of them, and you end up paying the IRS more money--and yes it is legal for her to do that--(I know--because I looked into it--and did just that) he wanted half the money I got back--
My lawyer looked at his lawyer and told said "he wasn't entitled to any of it as I didn't claim his income" needless to say---he was quite angry--
as he had to pay out about the same if not more than what I got back--

So anyone who is in this situation--you should take heed--of that tid bit of information--

And as far as alimony goes--that differs from state to state--and the length of marriage--and if she's capable of working--if your required to do any alimony it may only be temporary--for her to get training for a job--if she doesn't already have a degree--if she does--then the courts could by pass it all together--

but in all honesty--I think you should look at the Plan B which was discussed earlier--when it comes right down to it--she may not want the divorce--and even though you say you do at this point--I think if things changed in your marriage
you'd also feel differently--and want to make it work out--if for nothing else than to show your kids that love is worth fighting for--

WIWH, Listen to TR. If your wife won’t even make a temporary financial agreement, how will mediation work? Apparently, she’s planning on allowing the mediator to do the whole thing. But it doesn’t work like that.

There could be a whole array of reasons why your wife won’t negotiate with you. Could be because you were better at negotiation and always “won” any debate, causing her to lose. Therefore, she afraid to negotiate this with you.

Or it could be she’s planning to be unreasonable, and hopes that the mediator will side with her.

Or it could be that she really doesn’t want divorce. She only wants things to be different so she can be happy.

You better look into that tax thing asap. I don’t know how it would apply since she hasn’t worked, but you could be sunk.

greengables,

gg, even if she didn't have an income--she could get the earned income credit--and there are some other credits she could get--

Thorned Rose and GG,

Taxes are done this year. That was the least of my concerns.

I too have been wondering why she avoids any negotiation with me. After seeing the e-mail I sent her maybe she will realize that I am not trying to screw her out of anything, I am just changing the way things are handled.

If she still refuses to talk about it, I will have to make a decision myself.

I think that her main reason for a mediator is to save money. If she is still unwilling to negotiate then, I will need to take more control of how things are handled.

She is the one that insists that she wants D but seems to want to just keep coasting the way things are now. Her life the same, without me.

I will be calling her tonight about our dogs vet test results and I'll ask her about the e-mail and see what she says

Hi WIWH,
First of all thank you for the education you gave me on the Love Bank. I too find myself in a perilous situation financially with my W who moved back to Canada and has told me she is never coming back to the marriage. (she also says she likes having me around when I visit her every 2-3 weeks). Anyway she has a leased vehicle (in my name) that she refuses to pay for. She felt I took advantage of her financially during our 1-1/2 yrs together when I became unemployed and had to rely on her to pay our bills. Our interactions are fine until it comes to settling finances where the "negotiation" turns into her demand for getting every penny back she put into paying all our bills. The ensueing conversatin goes South immediately whereby she usually hangs upmthe phone and I end up calling her back to try and settle her down. I find the tightrope walk between making deposits into her LB, staying away from Love Buster conversations, and avoiding withdrawals from her LB AT ALL COSTS to be very very difficult. Right now I am in default for her car lease, her insurance is also due and she refuses to pay one more dime, yet she contunues to drive the vehicle. I'm just lost! But I feel your frustration a ton!

Hi WIWH,
First of all thank you for the education you gave me on the Love Bank. I too find myself in a perilous situation financially with my W who moved back to Canada and has told me she is never coming back to the marriage. (she also says she likes having me around when I visit her every 2-3 weeks). Anyway she has a leased vehicle (in my name) that she refuses to pay for. She felt I took advantage of her financially during our 1-1/2 yrs together when I became unemployed and had to rely on her to pay our bills. Our interactions are fine until it comes to settling finances where the "negotiation" turns into her demand for getting every penny back she put into paying all our bills. The ensueing conversation goes South immediately whereby she usually hangs up the phone and I end up calling her back to try and settle her down. I find the tightrope walk between making deposits into her LB, staying away from Love Buster conversations, and avoiding withdrawals from her LB AT ALL COSTS to be very very difficult. Right now I am in default for her car lease, her insurance is also due and she refuses to pay one more dime, yet she contunues to drive the vehicle. I'm just lost! But I feel your frustration a ton!

Hi WIWH,
First of all thank you for the education you gave me on the Love Bank. I too find myself in a perilous situation financially with my W who moved back to Canada and has told me she is never coming back to the marriage. (she also says she likes having me around when I visit her every 2-3 weeks). Anyway she has a leased vehicle (in my name) that she refuses to pay for. She felt I took advantage of her financially during our 1-1/2 yrs together when I became unemployed and had to rely on her to pay our bills. Our interactions are fine until it comes to settling finances where the "negotiation" turns into her demand for getting every penny back she put into paying all our bills. The ensueing conversation goes South immediately whereby she usually hangs up the phone and I end up calling her back to try and settle her down. I find the tightrope walk between making deposits into her LB, staying away from Love Buster conversations, and avoiding withdrawals from her LB AT ALL COSTS to be very very difficult. Right now I am in default for her car lease, her insurance is also due and she refuses to pay one more dime, yet she contunues to drive the vehicle. I'm just lost! But I feel your frustration a ton!

Hi WIWH,
First of all thank you for the education you gave me on the Love Bank. I too find myself in a perilous situation financially with my W who moved back to Canada and has told me she is never coming back to the marriage. (she also says she likes having me around when I visit her every 2-3 weeks). Anyway she has a leased vehicle (in my name) that she refuses to pay for. She felt I took advantage of her financially during our 1-1/2 yrs together when I became unemployed and had to rely on her to pay our bills. Our interactions are fine until it comes to settling finances where the "negotiation" turns into her demand for getting every penny back she put into paying all our bills. The ensueing conversation goes South immediately whereby she usually hangs up the phone and I end up calling her back to try and settle her down. I find the tightrope walk between making deposits into her LB, staying away from Love Buster conversations, and avoiding withdrawals from her LB AT ALL COSTS to be very very difficult. Right now I am in default for her car lease, her insurance is also due and she refuses to pay one more dime, yet she contunues to drive the vehicle. I'm just lost! But I feel your frustration a ton!