X was over tonight, to see my oldest daughter I just picked her up at the airport this afternoon. She came home with a broken left Radius clean fracture. This is the arm that she broke when her dad told her to cross a monkey bar that was too wide for her and she fell and broke the upper part of the arm. She also broke the 3 metacarpals of that hand and has I think 13 screws in that hand. Now she broke her radius snowboarding in Colorado. She has to see a orthopedic surgeon to get a cast. At least it is a clean fracture, will heal nicely.

X got into how he has to give me $15,000 a year for alimony, and money for childsupport which will be till the end of May. That I can feed the kids and I on $ he gives me (5 in all). I said, you try and feed a family on this amount plus pay all the bills. I told him I was left to taking care of all the animals, which is time, and care.

Got into how I am putting the house up for sale soon. And he goes into how he is going to help me get the house ready. I said, I can't even show the one room, since there are no stairs. Before I put a step stool and a box, I had to step on buckets. The realtor said it is not safe, so no I won't allow anyone to go to that room. Anyways, it got into he hasn't done things to fix the house up for the last years. And I don't see where he is going to take the time to do it now. Anyways, it deteriated into a bashing, cause he will not allow me to talk directly to him without my oldest daughter interfering. I have asked him over and over, even while we were married, to have a conversation with him and I only. But to no avail. Again today, he lets her interfere, and that is why I felt during our marriage I was nothing to him, but a cow to produce children. Now he is letting them talk over me even while he is here, they don't have to give me respect, cause dad doesn't give me respect and they go by his example. My oldest daughter, just went for 3 weeks to California, Colorado. Broke her arm, has no insurance, bought snowboard stuff before she left, bought some clothes while she was gone, went out to dinner, and drank some. All this, and she doesn't have a job, but dad paid for everything. She doesn't have credit, and now she is sharing her grandmothers credit card that her father has with his mother, cause dad doesn't have good credit, and now his daughter doesn't have good credit. What an example. DAughter always told me she doesn't need credit, but now she has her grandmothers credit card, cause while she was gone she couldn't rent a car. Oh I guess dad paid for all that too.

We got into how he is not paying for the current childrens education in college, but the oldest got all her education paid for by me and dad. And the 2 in college are left to defend for themselves. And of course the last child knows he is totally out of the picture of any help. And of course I will never see the money that she is supposedly to owe us back. This daughter is so in debt.

He doesn't believe in the medical bills being paid. My oldest daughter had two surgeries on her Left arm, and those still aren't paid for, and that was 4 years ago. So I just brought up to him that my medical bills need to be paid, per divorce decree by June. They were suppose to be paid by the signing of our divorce which was June of 2003. So I am giving him 1 year, and so far, nothing has been paid. He is screwing my credit, and I am done having bad credit, and bills not being paid.

I know, just don't allow the guy in the house. He didn't really ask me, just stated, that he is going to come over. Part of the problem with a controller.

He tried telling me how I feel today. And I repeated what he tells you all here and tells me, I am the recipient, and this is how I feel. He hates when one does that, but that is the facts. I felt the way I felt, and I told him how I felt and that I am the recipient, so my feelings are valid.

He also, told me tonight, that I should make him happy therefore he will get things done. Yep. I am responsible for him being happy. Yep. I am responsible for him getting things done. So should I tell him that he should make me happy, by doing things and if he doesn't I should be unhappy?

There is a event that happened, and he seems to be so obsessed with this even, and I am afraid he is going to push his mother into doing something that she is not ready to do. All he could say, is there are others that are connected with this event. Where is the compassion, empathy and care for his mother. I see SELFISHNESS, and I told him to just leave his mother alone. I said, she is not ready to deal with the situation, and just wait. And all he could do is think of himself. What a jerk. If I could, I would of picked his body up and thrown him out the door. But he is way to heavy for me.

So once again, after watching Judas tonight, and the deceit, selfishness, of Judas, I will pray for my XH, and maybe one day XH will see how disrespectful he is to me and to his mother.

Of course, dad is great buddies with the oldest daughter, like she said before, dad pays for everything. And heck I would hang on too, for she got a great 3 week vacation, and dad paid for everything. Not my style of living. I was raised to be a dependable worker, be respectful to my parents and family. Not mooch off of family and friends. I pay my medical bills, and all my bills. That is the way I was raised, and will continue on that path. He is not setting an example for this daughter, and the 2nd daughter is going to go to work this summer in her degree of aeronautical engineering. She doesn't want to mooch off of her parents, and she does want to become independent. She is doing well in school and has a great opportunity in her engineering.

XH is so messed up. He doesn't even communicate with his brother. And hasn't in years. But he still says family is important to him. Which should be important, but he chooses to make his own path and follow his own path. Like he has stated to you all, he will do things his way, when he wants, how he wants.

Just a vent - was hoping that tonight would be a good night, but he falls into his selfishness pattern, and I am so tired of it. Satan is still strong in his life, and it really made me feel sad. Cause I did love this man so much and still care about him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Faith4me:
<strong>

Just a vent - was hoping that tonight would be a good night, but he falls into his selfishness pattern, and I am so tired of it. Satan is still strong in his life, and it really made me feel sad. Cause I did love this man so much and still care about him. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know, from being around here that you have a difficult history with this man.

But I'm having a hard time reconciling everything you said before the last paragraph with that paragraph.

In essence, you go on and on about all the faults you find in this man, and then say that you DID love him, perhaps not now, and that you do care for him even after all the negative that you've described.

Could it be that you are expecting him to be somebody he is not?

For example, you mention child support and I believe you've mentioned that he makes an income similar, but perhaps a bit lower than mine, and I'm looking at paying a similar annual amount in CS to my WW (gotta love those No Fault divorce laws, I could end up paying for the divorce as well.)

I've done the math, and I can tell you that for every new dollar I make, about $0.50 of that dollar goes to taxes.

Let's see 27-33% in federal income tax, over 7% in FICA (Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid) and another 6% to the state.

Then 20% of what is left over would go to WW.

She gets the CS tax free, and I am also moving to a higher filing status if she gets custody. I cannot even claim Head of Household, cannot deduct CS, nor can I claim the child unless I get this in the divorce decree.

So the bottom line is why I hear you saying many things, and have heard some resentment about how much he has and how you don't have as much, it's probably just as big a financial blow to him.

He has the bigger income and he has bigger bills.

I know that doesn't address your issue, but I hope you understand the point that I'm making here.

It doubly sucks to be me since I'm not the WS and simply by virtue of making more money, I probably have to pay.

That is why I have a big issue with the envy of "wealth"

I believe it is wrong to expect those with more money to pay.

If my WW wants a divorce, then fine, let her pay for it.

She wants to break a covenant, and the law support her doing this without having to pay a dime.

All she has to do is tell the judge she is unhappy, doesn't want to be married, and the laws in my state don't look at who is at fault, but simply say, Mr jSC, you make 4-5X what your wife does, so you have to pay for the divorce she wants.

I guess I got off on my own rant here. Thanks for letting me offer my somewhat opposing viewpoint, LOL

Tony

Way to go Tony. I agree with you 100%. What State are you from anyhow?? If it's MN have you been following the proposed changes they are working on? If it happens the parent with custody will have their income considered too. It's about time. By the way, I'm a parent that has custody and receives support. I also work and take full responsibility for my financial obligation.

If they change the laws to have the one with more financial status pay more good. And if the one that wants the divorce pay for the divorce that is even better. Then I would of just waited till he filed, and then he could of paid for everything.

My X is really screwed up. Yes, I care about him. But I don't love him like I used to. There is no trust towards the man. He has lied to me so many times and continues on with the lies.

I know my X is under the control of Satan. His actions show. Here is another example.

My oldest daughter was snowboarding in Colorado. She broke her Radius bone, near the wrist. She has medical bills of 2 surgeries from 5 years ago on her left hand, 13 screws in her 3 metacarpals that have not been paid. Her dad tried to get her into the same Dr. to see about her broken bone. She has a temporary splint on. The Dr. said everything has to be paid up front. Past bill and this bill. Now he is saying this Dr. is unreasonable, and now he wants to try to get something out of the place that daughter broke her wrist at. I don't live my life like this. This is so bazarre, that one thinks in this manner. He has bills he hasn't paid for surgeries he had on his sinuses about 6 years ago, and never paid them either.

I talked to my daughter, and stated my words that this is not the way to live. She agrees, and she is letting her father handle this situation. Now, if her father had let her handle this on her own, (she is 25 for goodness), then she would realize the delema she is in.

Anyways, I just ended with I hope something gets settled so that you can get healed.

I believe, the wayward spouse should pay more of the divorce bill, after all they are the ones that want the divorce and had all the fun.

Faith,
If you were to live in Mn like I do you would not be getting alimony. When I got divorced I got 400.00 a month for three kids ages 16,14 and 13. I worked a full time job in a nursing home plus picked up hours and worked part time at a video store. Your kids are mostly grown up. It is your choice to continue to take care of them. Your daughter is 25 yrs old for gosh sakes. If she can't respect you then let her go live with your ex. She needs to get a job and a life! I know you are going to school and that you have hurt your arm ect but I still feel that there has to be some job that you can do to supplement your income so you are not so dependant on ex.
There are jobs out there that don't require lifting ect. Even if you don't make alot of money it will help you to become a independant person.

Light bulb moment here, F4M.

Until now, I couldn't understand what my frustration with you was about. You know that I hold your husband is the most contemptable light, bar none lower.

But the last few vent posts have had a familiar flavor to posts, vents, etc. thrown at me by a person who holds me in the most contemptable light in her life. bar none.

What I've seen in this new light doesn't change how I view SUFDB, SNL, and all his other aliases. But it does change how I want to relate to you.

Faith, It's time to get the faith. To get over your ex. He's your ex. God is your life. Stop doing as Satan does, as John describes in Revelation - that you constantly stand before the throne of God, accusing your husband and harrowing up his sins night and day.

I mean, REALLY! God can see what SNL does. He knows the contempt SNL feels for you as he tramples through your life and the lives of his mother and children as well.

You don't feel anything but hatred for your husband. There is nothing in your posts that is loving. There is an attachment, but that attachment is forged in pure hatred and outrage for how much he has offended you.

You don't think so? Let me share with you about my former best friend who overstepped boundaries in her relationship with my husband. I asked her to back off. She couldn't. wouldn't. whatever. So I cut off contact. She was outraged. So outraged that venom spewed from almost every pore as she talked about me and villified me on a recovery board I used to participate in. I left the board - I had been a moderator at the time, and I resigned rather than continue to expose myself to her hatred.

She followed my husband to a recovery board that he goes to - posted under an identity that we didn't recognize, but from the moment she started writing, her hatred of me and him oozed out of almost every word.

I finally e-mailed her and asked her why she would EVER want contact with such evil, hateful human beings. That I was happy to leave our conflict at Jesus' feet and let Him help us sort it out in HIS own due time. But that no amount of abuse from her or contempt, or hatred would break down the boundary that protected me.

Please consider the magnitude of the weight of sin that hatred has on you right now. It's making you sicker than the torn rotar cuff SNL perped on you right now. What you are doing to your mind and body is drinking poison and asking SNL to suffer for it.

STOP IT! right now. See your "venting" for what it really is - another opportunity to spew hatred at a man, who, while he may deserve every bit of hatred you feel, isn't suffering one bit for you feeling it! Remember, you are drinking poison and expecting him to suffer!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Faith4me:
<strong> If they change the laws to have the one with more financial status pay more good. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess you and I will have to differ on this.

For one, I really resent when other people say "if you make more you SHOULD pay more"

I think we call it a DJ when one person says that another person SHOULD do something.

I cannot tell you what to do, but I can resent you saying that I SHOULD pay more.

And by saying what you did, in essence you are saying this is the way it should be.

Would you be comfortable with me saying, you SHOULD support yourself and your children since you have custody?

Probably not.

Let me add that I agree with KaylaAndy here as well.

Tony
Lives in IL

I have a lot of empathy.

It has taken me a long time to figure out this, but my first clue was attending a woman's abuse meeting (my first and only) in February, 2002, two months before the A was exposed and 2 months after the broken arm.

Everyone says don't blame the victim. What I saw was that there was something in common with these women, and I wasn't interested in having that something in common.

I now think I know what it was. I had a win-lose view. If Tom gave up Sophia, he lost and I won. If we bought this house, I won and he lost. Win-lose in marriage doesn't work. It has to be win-win or no-deal. With that approach, I hold no anger towards my husband. I recognize that he has a choice to make, just as I do, and the choice needs to be to his advantage. If he sees no win in our marriage, then I want him to end it. If I see no win in our marriage, then I will end it.

We've been through 12 years of a bad marriage, starting with the wedding night. I have quite a colorful tale to tell -- he broke my ulna in seven pieces, requiring 3 surgeries and nearly 6 months in a cast or splint, because I threatened to call the woman with whom he in fact was having an affair. This altercation took place 12 days after surgery, including a hysterectomy, that kept me in the hospital 5 days and had complications that had me on Cipro and Diflucan and stool softeners and I had a catheter bag... And when he punched me I was still within the 2 week period when I wasn't supposed to drive because the jarring could affect the surgery....And I can spend the rest of my life retelling this tale...

Bottom line: He made choices, and so did I. I took responsibility for his actions and tried to stop the affair. I took responsibility for the abuse and forgave him again and again. I was a VICTIM. No more. My attitude is win-win or no-deal.

The decision has already been made, at least temporarily, in your case: no-deal. BUT I can't help but wonder if it isn't really an ongoing saga of win-lose with both of you in contact when that contact doesn't appear to be necessary.

Your issue about bills not being paid -- well, the 25 year old was irresponsible to go snowboarding and not have insurance. It is not her father's responsibility. If the divorce decree says he pays the bills, then you can let the collectors know how he can be reached. Stay out of his business! Keep him out of yours!

I believe that you have the legal right to request that he not contact you except in a manner you believe is appropriate and necessary. You can let him know that you will file a harassment order against him if he doesn't comply.

You are in charge of your life.

Ten years from now, do you want to look back and say that you let him in the house because he promised to fix things up and then he didn't and you got into a name-calling contest... Unless he is willing to consider reconciliation with a win-win approach, you will be stuck in win-lose which really is lose-lose.

I feel very preachy typing all of this. I don't really understand it all. When I get to the point that I do, I won't be on MB trying to sort things out myself. And, by the way, of all the posters, I have been most impressed by what sufdb has had to say. Just a bit of humor there at the end...

<small>[ March 09, 2004, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

Java - will give an example of one of the classes I am studying. In Canada they have medical care through the government. The rich pay more to help the poor. This makes medical services available to all in Canada. The rich can afford to have subsidized health plan plus the government plan. But the poor can only have the government plan. Therefore, everyone is taken care of.

So why doesn't the one who makes the more money in divorce help support the spouse who doesn't have money, and has the children in their home. I am seeking a job, and hopefully will have a job this August or Sept. Yes, I am going to school, but am on medical still. See the Dr. in another 3 weeks. What XH did to me, did cause severe damage, which XH says he didn't do to me. Oh and tonight he stated that he cusses at me cause I provoke him. I guess I provoked him enough to have a sexual affair too. I guess then I must be the bad person. This is the pattern of an imbalanced person. Anyways, I am doing some side jobs. Have made some money, and I lost the job of taking care of the elderly woman, she had a stroke and is going into assisted living. But I have another opportunity to clean new construction homes, not sure I will beable to do it, but if I have to I will. Just wanting to heal, and the Dr. said, I do have spasms and tender tissue, tendon strains in my back from the injury. It is hard to sleep and to walk when your back is so painful. And when it gets really bad it affects my right eyesight, where things are distorted and my eye feels like it is buldging out. X really doesn't ask about this, and doesn't care. Cause he says he didn't do the damage.

Now to get to the 25 year old that doesn't work. I just had a conversation with my X about another issue that he is obsessed with. And the 25 year old came up in the discussion. 25 year old broke her arm and has no insurance and of course has Dr. bills that are 5 years or older from the previous hand surgeries she had. Dad tried to get her in to the same Dr. that did the hand surgery but the Dr. said pay past bill up front and this bill up front. Of course X was furious, and so now the 25 year old is talking like her dad. I talked to X about when are you going to let her grow up. Let her figure this out for herself. He came back with, he believes in her and when she gets rich, then she can tell me to go to he!!. This is way of dealing with anger. Criticize. This has been his and my disagreement for many years. He won't let her grow up, and she has told me she owes her dad so much money now, and of course why should she not suck up to her dad, he pays for everything. So she is to see another Dr. and have to pay tomorrow $100, and the rest on payment. Of course, this is not letting her see the repercussions of not having insurance, not having a job. I have told her that she will have to get out shortly, and maybe she will move in with her dad, if Grandma lets her. But this is not letting her grow up. It is sad that a 25 year old is not helping pay for her part of the living costs. And of course X told me today, that he believes in her and when she gets rich then she can let me crash. More of his abusive actions, when he gets mad. Which I did discuss with him tonight that he has a very short fuse.

There is another issue X is dealing with. A personal issue. And I called him tonight just to tell him that I talked to a person related to this issue. I was being thoughtful I thought, and it turned out to be X said, what about him, what about his feelings. All about him again, and I didn't hear anything about his mothers feelings. This issue deals with his mother. So we got into an argument, and I have to say, this man is so screwed up, and selfish.

He brought up he raised our family for 25 years, and I said so then you give up on the family. And of course I had nothing to do with raising 4 children, living with very little money and making ends meet. Plus I did cleaning, and babysitting, and giving piano lessons. He said, well nobody seems to care. I tried to express to him that he felt rejected most of his life by his father. And this is carrying over into his adulthood plus alcoholism is dominant in his (mother and father side) family. Which has side effects. X doesn't drink, but eats excessively, very overweight.

He got into how during the WHOLE marriage I criticized him, demeaned him, didn't listen to him, etc. etc. I said, you think what you want, but I became a submissive wife and I couldn't even pain a wall without his permission. I couldn't even go to the grocery store without asking him. Many people wondered why I asked him?

So the person I was talking to tonight, I did say to her that X was a controlling individual. And she said from the very beginning of her marriage she told her husband what she was going to do and not do. They discussed some things, but if they couldn't agree, they each would do their own thing. She said she was not going to have a husband tell her what she was going to do and not do. She had a brain that God gave her and she was going to use it. Anyways, I told X that he will never be satisfied with anyone he marrys in the future. Nobody will ever fit his bill, cause he wants a robot, not a wife. He wants to push this button, and that button, and if she makes a mistake he wants this wife to get on her knees in front of him and apologize for everything.

I now know, that my X, likes to debate. He stated this. I now know, that my X, doesn't want a woman for who she is, he wants a woman that will do whatever he says and goes by his orders. He doesn't want a human he wants a robot. The way he is so obsessed with this new incident, is showing a very insecure man, very little self-esteem, and looking to someone new for attention, admiration, and companionship.

X doesn't have anything to do with his brother which he is only 1 1/2 years younger. And I talked to him about his brother. He blames his brother for not communicating with him. X doesn't admit to his failure. So now, he is going to switch his attention on this new incident in his mothers life.

Life here has been really screwed up, and now I realize that my X is very mixed up, psychologically and emotionally. He won't admit that he has screwed up, and won't admit failure. That is a big thing, he never does wrong, and never says he did wrong. He always justifies his actions right or wrong. Just like his affair, he justifies it, and a man with this attitude is never going to be happy. I know he is a very depressed man, and I talked to him tonight about seeking counseling. Even taking medication would probably help him.

On my part, I was trying to help him tonight to include him in information I found out. But as I can see it backfired. So no more giving him information unless he asks. I no longer have to deal with a controlling individual, that put me down tonight, and stated that I was getting at him.

So sad, that he has come to this point in his life.

Yes, I still have anger towards XH. Probably will until he moves out of state. Wished he did a year ago. But I now know that he is a man of severe mental trouble. Tonight was another example.

I am trying to help this man, but you know, it seems to come to where I just don't talk to him, don't tell him anything, and don't even breathe the same air as him. He looks for words to say I am getting at him, putting him down. All I stated tonight to him was a conversation I had with someone that I thought he would of been interested in knowing what was said. And once again it backfired.

That is what happens to those of us who are givers and care about others. I wanted him to know, cause I cared about him. And once again he punched me in the face with words.

As many of you know who my X is, and the pattern he has set here. There is no way of getting through to the one that has stated over and over, he will do things his way, when he wants, and how he wants.

So I am letting God take this off my hands. I have prayed for my MIL, and my XH. With the present circumstances, I see XH needing more prayers daily. And depression seems to be taking control of him more severely every day. He has the signs: everyone is out to get him, no one listens to him (he stated that tonight), he is gorssly overweight, appearance is not that great (low self-esteem), can't seem to handle the business work, and his paperwork is so out of control, looking elsewhere besides his family here for support. So once again, I will pray for XH, and there is nothing wrong with praying for someone that I care about.

KaylaAndy, I think your reply was meant for me too and it was very timely <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Faith4me,

If anyone cares to know how messed up your ex is, they can read HIS posts. I haven't read here in quite a while but I remember how well you did when you kept your focus on you.

Please seriously reconsider getting his "help" with the house. He didn't do it when it was his responsibility to do and I highly doubt his offer is anything more than another way to entice you to give him more access to give you ongoing hassle and grief. I hope you can resist the temptation to be "fooled" by his demand to "help you" Faith4me. The choice is yours, not his. The risk is yours, not his.

Take care.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Faith4me:
<strong> Java - will give an example of one of the classes I am studying. In Canada they have medical care through the government. The rich pay more to help the poor. This makes medical services available to all in Canada. The rich can afford to have subsidized health plan plus the government plan. But the poor can only have the government plan. Therefore, everyone is taken care of.


</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess you don't see how someone might resent having someone else tell them what they SHOULD do with the money they earn.

Let's try this exercise, you send me half of the money you make, and I'll spend it where I think society will best benefit.

You see, to me, just because someone makes a lot more money than I do, that doesn't give me the right to say, you SHOULD pay a higher percentage of your income in taxes to support the government( and with the exception of one person, there will always be someone who makes the most, and someone who makes the least )

I have no problem with saying EVERYONE pay 10%. I have a big problem with saying as you make more money, the percentage that is paid in taxes goes up.

And that is what is happening with my paycheck. About half of my overtime check pays taxes.

Oh, and you can always get my job. You just have to learn everything you can about Networking/Solaris/Clustering etc. It doesn't require heavy lifting, just a lot of study and experience.

If you go into the teaching side, when I left the teaching side and instructor got from $5500 to about $7500 each week to teach a class.

Sounds like a lot of money, right? Well, if you are self employed, you pay a lot more in taxes, you have to pay for all of your insurance. Of course there is travel, you couldn't fly anywhere, stay in a hotel for a week, perhaps a rental car for much less than say $1200-1500/week (fly out Sunday night, fly back Fri evening.) Oh yeah, FICA, you now pay both halves of Social Security since your employer picks up half of your Social Security that you don't see on your check.

Oh, I had to get certified in all the classes I taught, so I had to attend the class (opportunity cost, can't earn money that week and I'm probably still travelling, another $1200+ the revenue not earned) then I might have to teach one or two certification teaches. Still more weeks of no revenue as the certified instructor is the one who gets paid to watch me, as he or she is responsible for the class.

The point is, bigger income, bigger bills. The ones I choose, I have no problem with that.

For someone else, who didn't earn my cash to tell me that I should pay more just because I have more. I've got a really big problem with that.

I'm not even talking about kids or child support here, just the general notion in our society that it is ok to soak the rich.

You know what, there probably is someone in the world who thinks you are rich. Why not call them up and ask them how they think YOU SHOULD spend your wealth.

Nothing personal, I hope you understand, I just don't personally like the argument that it is ok to take more from someone because they have more.

Tony

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> have prayed for my MIL, and my XH. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will pray for XH, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Prayers are good but I have a suggestion for you. I think you need to pray for yourself and quit praying for XH to be what YOU want him to be.

You are not the only one on here that continually talks about praying for their X when I see prayers for themselves would be a better direction.

Also, you have written on several occasions about your 25 year old disrespecting you and XH not doing or saying anything about it. He is not responsible for you relationship with your daughter. I personally don't think he should say anything to her when she is being disrespectful. That is up to you to stop if you don't like it. He has no role in your relationship and interaction with your daughter. Quit expecting him to fix it and fix it yourself.

Prayers that you will find the strength to handle what life has dealt you and move on to some better times.

Yes, X didn't fix the house while he was living here, and I really don't expect him to do anything else in this house. It is big talk, just so that he has access to being in this house. I am not stupid, or I wouldn't have to get things fixed now that he no longer owns this house. For I asked XH while married if I could find someone to fix what needed to be fixed in this house. And one example is a leak in the upstairs bathroom tub area. I found a guy, who tore part of the tile out by the shower head, and when the X put the shower head on he twisted the pipe and there was a big leak. When we would use the shower, it dripped downstairs and this was for about 10 years. He talked the talk of removing the outside wall and looking to see where the problem was. He has good intentions, but no follow through.

Now for the rich helping the poor. What about Robin Hood? If I ever get enough money, I will help the poor. I don't have to be rich, I don't need materialistic things, I don't need fancy products, I just want a roof over my head and a source to drive to and from work. My point, is the way divorce is now, in 90% of the cases, the woman is left in the dark. Society is a mans world. A woman who has the same exact job as a man, will earn less. Given facts. Experimentation is done a mans way. Heart attack research is done on men. Most of the women here on D/D are in the same situation as I. There wayward spouse XH is off and running having a good time, while the woman is struggling to support the children, support themselves, and try to pay bills on 1/3 of what the men make. I hear this from my XH. I know what he makes, I did the books since 1990 without a paycheck. He tells me he is giving me 15K a year. I would like to see him live on this with all the money he spends. There is going to be a law coming out, which won't help me, with my divorce being so recent, there might be a factor clause that will help women who were dumped and having the kids live with them to get more from the X. I have this young guy in one of my classes, that work for the government. He and I have talked and I told him of my circumstances. They are working on a law to help the women gain more and get access to more. It is about time, cause many of us will be struggling the rest of our lives while our X spouses go live high on the road. So tell me, what is your theory on men vs women in the job market? How is it that most of us women have our children, while our XH are children free and living a life of their own, and we have the responsibility of making sure the bills are paid for a roof over their heads, food, insurance, ammenities, being there 24/7 for the kids?

I do pray for myself as well as my X. I do feel hurt by my X and he still calls me a FB when he says I provoke him. See it is still my fault. He has never taken responsibility for his words or actions. Like the other day, he said I should make him happy, therefore he will be more inclined to do things. I am I guess responsible for him being happy as well. Once again it is all my problem, according to him. I don't make him happy, I don't make him sad. I guess according to him I am still the FB he called me many times. I conduct my life the way I should, being responsible and loving to my children.

The 25 year old, I have stated for her to not talk when I am talking to her father, but she says dad wants her to talk. This has been this way all our marriage. Now, I walk away. This is another factor of a controlling person.

My daughter the 25 year old is a good woman. She is following the path of her father, which is not good. She now realizes that after these years of stating that she doesn't need a credit card, she had to get one through her grandmother. I do think she is seeing now that her dad is totally out of control. All I can do is pray for her and set an example on my part that bills need to be paid, and how to lead a life of truth, radical honesty, and not deceit.

KaylaAndy,

VERY THOUGHT PROVOKING POST!!

I'm not going to address Faith because I haven't been on this board long and do not know the whole story.

BUT, Faith, read and re-read KaylaAndy's post and really let it sink in and pray on it.

Double post, see next post

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: javaSansContour ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Faith4me:
<strong>

Now for the rich helping the poor. What about Robin Hood? If I ever get enough money, I will help the poor. I don't have to be rich, I don't need materialistic things, I don't need fancy products, I just want a roof over my head and a source to drive to and from work. My point, is the way divorce is now, in 90% of the cases, the woman is left in the dark. Society is a mans world. A woman who has the same exact job as a man, will earn less. Given facts. Experimentation is done a mans way. Heart attack research is done on men. Most of the women here on D/D are in the same situation as I. There wayward spouse XH is off and running having a good time, while the woman is struggling to support the children, support themselves, and try to pay bills on 1/3 of what the men make. I hear this from my XH. I know what he makes, I did the books since 1990 without a paycheck. He tells me he is giving me 15K a year. I would like to see him live on this with all the money he spends. There is going to be a law coming out, which won't help me, with my divorce being so recent, there might be a factor clause that will help women who were dumped and having the kids live with them to get more from the X. I have this young guy in one of my classes, that work for the government. He and I have talked and I told him of my circumstances. They are working on a law to help the women gain more and get access to more. It is about time, cause many of us will be struggling the rest of our lives while our X spouses go live high on the road. So tell me, what is your theory on men vs women in the job market? How is it that most of us women have our children, while our XH are children free and living a life of their own, and we have the responsibility of making sure the bills are paid for a roof over their heads, food, insurance, ammenities, being there 24/7 for the kids?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well,

I too like to donate money. I just want to decide who gets the fruits of my work.

I don't see Robin Hood as the epitome of virtue.

Stealing is still stealing!

What is my theory.

Well in my case, my wife is the one wandering and wants the divorce. She also wants the child and then is asking for alimony and child support, and finally has told me on some occassions that I should be happy with the two days every other weekend I get with our daughter.

So what is my theory. If you cannot afford to raise the child, don't ask for custody.

I am just as fit to be parent and have primary responsibility for our daughter as she does. I'm certain she would not like the situation if the roles were reversed and she only got to see our daughter every other weekend, and had to pay $15K or so without any requirement for me to document how I was spending that money.

Granted, my situation is not the same as yours.

Tony

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: javaSansContour ]</small>

Robin Hood is not a good example of how charity should be given. It is not right to steal from another just because they have more than you.

I have to wonder, how much alimony do you feel you are due? Do you feel his salary should be split 50/50? If you are no longer contributing to the business how would that be fair? No one, not even an ex-h, owes anyone else an entire living. You are getting more than the vast majority of women who get zero in a divorce.


You are not responsible to pay everything for your adult children. That is your decision and one you are making out of charity. I'm sorry but they are old enough to have at least part time jobs to pay for some of their things and if not, well, tell your ex he needs to cover some of their bills too and not out of your alimony.

While you say your ex has never owned up to his wrongdoings, neither have you, Faith. You are very good at pointing fingers, you are very adept at finding fault but that bright light is never shone in your own direction. I'm sorry but you must have had a part in your marriage's failure as well. It's time you began accepting that and putting these accusations towards your ex to rest.

This is getting you absolutely nowhere and you are wasting precious time fuming at him.

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Not-so-Silent-Observer ]</small>

I have stated the part of my failure, but I guess you have missed those posts. We both did 50/50 towards the failure of the marriage. I have never stated that I didn't have anything to do with the failure of the marriage.

The thing about the business. My X husband, and most of you know who he is here on the boards, would not of had a successful business without my putting in 60-80 hours per week into the business. I helped him start the business from ground zero. I was the one who designed the paperwork, created the filing system, talked pleasantly to the customers. I had many comments about the way I talked to them as customers, and my X rarely gave me credit. I have the giving nature and ability to sympathize with many individuals. It is part of the nursing process. Which I am limited to 10# weight lifting. I dealt with people who were ill, who were scared of losing a limb, who were scared to have tests done. I learned to settle their emotions and learned to deal with their anxiety.

I did all of this without a paycheck, which I found out was totally unthoughtful on my husbands part. I wanted a paycheck, but he wouldn't make a paycheck out for me, so that I could of accumulated SS and experience. This was a big mistake on his part. Cause he told me NO! He said, I could take money out each week, cash and state that was my paycheck, but I couldn't make out a paycheck persay. He didn't want to claim it on the taxes. So I am the one that got screwed big time now.

As far as giving to the poor or charity. All of us would like to have enough money to give, it is part of human kind. If we were to take frivulous items out of our life, cut back somewhere, I am sure you would still be comfortable enough to live and know that you are helping someone else.

As for myself. I give money each week to my church. This my tithing. I have made a goal and have succeeded to keeping this amount everyweek. I am actually going to increase it in April. I talked to my financial advisor, and she thinks I can do it. It is a challenge, and I don't spend hardly any money on myself. I don't buy new clothes, buy jewelry, things to sit around the house and collect dust, I am a frugal person, and I would rather give up pop, and give more money to my church. This way I am helping those in need, and giving as the Lord would want me to.

Yes, I don't want someone telling me how to spend my money either. Taxes are high, and going to get higher. A divorce does affect the female much more severely than a man. I think Java, I do feel you see this. With all the statistical data in this country, women are treated unequally in all aspects. Women have a harder time meeting ends meet in a DIVORCE. I know, I am having a hard time meeting ends meet. And my X buys gourmet foods, cause like he tells me, he only has to buy for himself. I have to buy for 5 here. I don't buy gourmet eggs, like he does. I buy the cheapest brand, and we do eat more carbos cause it is filling, and cheaper. When my X says, he only has to buy for himself, I wonder why he would even say such a statment, cause that is what I am trying to get through his brain, I am living on so little, and I am feeding 5.

The issue with the kids living here and not paying is a source of ammunition, that X will use against me. If I were to press the issue of the kids paying to live here, he threatens me with words like again last night. He knows where to hit the blows and he uses them whenever he feels like pulling me down. Last night was the statement, that when my oldest daughter gets rich and famous, she can let me go to he!!. Yep, he used that against me. See it is control and manipulation. Yes, dad buys her everything. She doesn't make any money yet. And I don't have a job, but dad will pay for her trip, give her spending money, and etc. Yet, I only want help with food for now. And he threatens me, by stating you don't want to see my daughter grow, and do well. He said, he believes in his daughter, so do I, I love her and would give any part of my body to her. But I am falling through the cracks, and when he threatens me, he knows EXACTLY what he is doing.

Most know who he is here on the boards. And he has used these techniques with many posters. He is a smart man, with ability to use words to hurt and control.

Back to the woman issue in todays society. Java - did you know that the breast cancer tests were done on MEN! I learned this in the class I took last year. Did you know that mamograms machines were designed by MEN! I am not a feminist by any means. Just that society is not equal to women, and some women are more capable for equal jobs as men, and still get the less pay.

I have a friend who is a nurse at a hospital. They have some male nurses, for the men patients. The female nurses found out that he was getting more money per hour than they were. And you know why, cause they said he was stronger, and that he was capable of lifting a patient out of bed with his arms and placing a patient on a gurney himself if necessary. What an excuse. So God gave men stronger muscles, and they get paid more, cause of their physical ability. What about a women who is more capable of the medication, and medical procedures. That means nothing. Or is better at pre assessing a patient that may be having difficulty in breathing and a possible heart attack.

The friend I have at the hospital and some of the other nurses, went to the director and asked why. They were told the statement I wrote.

It would be nice to have a man in my life that saw me as a equal and treated me as an equal.

I know of a woman that I recently have met. She in the beginning of her marriage, told her husband this is the way it is going to be. She has a bit of spike to her, and I was so surprised, but her husband respects her for it. She gets what she wants, and doesn't have to ask her husband. I told her I always had to ask my husband just to paint the walls or change something. And there were times that I just said I am going to do it anyways, and he would talk out of anger with statements that he would tear it down, or destroy what I was going to do. It was anger, which he has a hard time with his anger. He gets ballistic too easily. She said, no man is going to control her, and tell her what to do. And that is where I did wrong. I didn't set boundaries at the beginning, and my X didn't see me as a equal. He saw me as a whimp that he could push around. But now that I am setting boundaries, he thinks I am crazy, and vindictive. He has stated that many times to me. But it is now me showing that I am a smart woman, very intelligent woman, great skills in mastering many jobs, I raised 4 children, on poverty income at times. I did well, and helped develop a business that was thriving. Without my skills, the business would of never taken off. I am good at what I do, I have great compassion for humans, I am a giver, a lover of deep emotional feelings, and a great love of animals. I love God, and am growing everyweek closer to him. And I do pray for myself, as well as the church prays for me weekly.

All for now, I took my drugs, and they are starting to kick in. The one drug (antispasm) causes grogginess, and I can feel it kicking in. Goodnight. More discusssion tomoroorw/

I dunno,

Everywhere I've worked, seems the women made as much as the men.

Let's see US Army, no differing pay scales, men and women paid the same. Women could jump out of the same airplanes the men did and get hazardous duty pay.

I do agree that some carreer fields are "off limits" to women, such as the infantry and I believe armor. However, women fly helicopters, command artillery units (Including Nuclear capible units) and do other things.

Later I was an instructor. Those pay rates I mentioned applied to woman as well, so I don't see women getting paid less there.

My current employer, Sun also seems to do a fair job of hiring men and women, and I don't see the women suffering nor do they appear to make less money.

So I contend that in my experience, women in the same career fields as men, CAN make the same money a man does.

What happens to many women:

1. The choose career fields where they don't pay as much, say a school teacher instead of a technical trainer.

2. They take time off to be a mother, or turn down promotions because it takes away from time with family.

3. They don't just take time off, they end their career and become a SAHM.

I do agree that there is are more men in power than women. What I don't agree with is that men TRY to keep women out of power. I'm sure there are exceptions, but you know what? In the long term, companies and employers that practice ANY sort of discrimination will put themselves at a competitive disadvantage.

To hire a lesser qualified man over a more qualified woman, just based on gender is a poor business decision.

(However, one could make an argument that if they cannot afford to hire the more qualified woman because she has a greater salary expectation, then they may need to "settle" for the man. However, that is a different criterion, and is NOT gender discrimination.)

Finally, as a cancer survivor, I want you to know that I get my annual "pregnancy tests"

That's right, I get an Alpha Feto Protein and a Beta HCG test every year, LOL.

Tony
After my cancer, I'm just half the man I used be, just like Lance Armstrong, LOL

PS, on the male nurse thing, could it be that if you HAVE to have male nurses, you might have to pa a premium since there may not be the same supply of male nurses as there are female nurses.

OTOH, not from personal experience, but I have read that Male Porn stars are paid much less than Female Porn stars. Where is the outcry in that industry? Oh yeah, it's probably a supply and demand thing. I'm pretty sure there are more men who apply for those jobs than women, LOL

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: javaSansContour ]</small>

"I don't buy new clothes, buy jewelry, things to sit around the house and collect dust, I am a frugal person, and I would rather give up pop, and give more money to my church. This way I am helping those in need, and giving as the Lord would want me to."

I was buying $3 pants at the thrift store while Tom was limiting himself to $200/month for lunches out at work -- including, very openly, $40 at a time treating Sophia to a nice, long lunch. I wasn't just a victim. I was sacrificing -- "give up" as the way to "earn" love.

Would the Lord want you to? The Lord sacrificed his life to end all sacrifice. I consider the saying, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice."

It has been really difficult for me to face that the reason why I stayed in such a bad marriage was because of a twisted understanding of what the Lord wanted.

I'm on the boards because I am struggling with these issues, and when I read what you wrote, I think -- that attitude is one of sacrifice which allowed me to put up with just awful treatment and think it was the Lord's will for me. BUNK!