I filed for divorce on monday and now I feel like I have moved too fast. I feel as though I should have waited longer to see if God would turn my wife's heart around. I put pressure on her and casued a scene when she was visiting her BF at the prison where I pleaded with her to no longer go. Now I have a protective order against me and cannot see her or my children for a while. I just keep making mistakes over and over and just feel hopeless in this situation.

Phoenix, write out a Plan B letter and enact it now. It will guarantee that you don’t get into the situations like that at the prison which only has hurt you. Make sure you chose a neutral party to act as a go between when it comes to the children. Depending on the RO, that may even allow you to see the children sooner. After you send that letter NO CONTACT. None. Do it to protect yourself.

I am not even allowed to send her a letter as it would violate the terms of the order. I would be arrested if she says I violated the order.

Okay, is there a friend of hers you would trust to tell her you won't come any where near her? That while you still love her and want your marriage to work, you don't want to have any contact with her until she wants the same thing? And that you'd like so and so to be the go-between for child arrangements?

I'm just brainstorming here to open up some possibilities

Ok pal... i don't know much about your story but I think I can offer a little advice based on the topic of this thread, based on experience... take it for what it is worth.

First off... what state are you in? Is it Arizona or is the Pheonix in your handle a reference to something else? I'm in Minnesota, which is a no fault state (not that it matteres in this case) and i was told that the way the courts work with regards to divorce is that they require you to constantly push the divorce to get it thru. Meaning, that even after you have filed, if you want to, it can sit on the shelf for months and years with out progressing at all. So, although it may not be a good thing in regards to getting your wife back, the simple fact that you have filed isn't the end of the world. You need to put forth a lot of effort to get from married to divorced in the courts.

Second, with regards to the protection order, DO NOT DO ANYTHING. Don't contact a friend, don't write any letters, don't do anything that your wife could possibly construe as a violation. Nothing!!! I would assume that when the courts issued the order, they also set a hearing date and included the summons for that with the order? I hear that is theway these things are generally done. I assume that the order is temporary pendingthe outcome of that hearing. Get yourself an attorney for that hearing. It may not seem like a big deal... just a restraining order hearing... but it is NOT a family court case, it is a criminal court case. You cannot afford to NOT have a competant attorney present with you. Do it for your kids... if she wins you may be severly limited in your contact to them... and beingthat you appear to be the more stable of the two of you... this would be bad news for the kids. A good attorney is worth his wieght in gold with regards to these types of things... get one. After the hearing, assuming you win and the order is denied, then enact your best plan B... write the letter, leave her alone, don't call, don't bump into her, don't make your self at all available to her. Easier said than done... if you haven't done a plan b (or attempted it) you have no idea how difficult it is. You will likely fail at it a couple of times (most of us here do) but the sooner you get your act together the better... for you and her.

I know I'm drawing some conclusions based on assumption... and am probably painting with a rather broad brush here... but this is what I would do given hindsight and all. Take it for what it is worth.

Ahh spoken like a true man! I appreciate your candor. I guess what I am feeling is remorse for having to pull out all the stops to win(basically painting a very ugly picture of WW).

FYI Pheonix - rising from the ashes. State = Peach

My attorney has a copy of the PO and will be in court with me. He said that she did this as way to keep me from seeing my children beacause I have threatened to take them away due to her behavior and her poor choices (questionable inmate boyfriend), and that the judge may see this a abuse of the system on her part.

I am afraid right now to even talk to my children even though they have called me several times in the past 2 days. I am afraid because the police said that I am to not have any contact with them or I will be arrested. All she has to do is speak to me on the phone and I am done.

I will write the letter and do plan B to the hilt.

Pheonix-

Good to hear you are on top of things with regards to the RO. My WW pulled the same crap on me because I wouldn't let her bully me around with regards to the kids and the house (she moved out and wanted unfettered access to the house... I changed the locks). She was actually there picking some stuff up when the sheriff showed up to serve me... he was shocked, said he had never had that happen before. Funny thing was... his W did the sasme thing to him 2 weeks earlier...bad news for my WW that we got this deputy! He got really fed up with WW and started yelling at her to pack up the kids and get the hell outta here (here being my house).

I was in the same spot as you... the order said plain as day not to contact her OR the kids until after the hearing. Yet, she spent a week trying to convince me that the order really didn't mean what it said... She even had the kids calling to say good night and stuff, knowing full well that I couldn't talk to them.

Here is what you do... call the sheriff in your county and tell him what is going on. He'll likely tell you that if you are not initiating contact that you will be ok in talking to your kids...but document each and every case word for word. It will stirke the judge as a little strange that she is so threatened and scared of you that she needs a RO, yet she has no problem calling you. Ask your attorney to see what he says... but this is what mine told me and the sheriff confirmed it. He flat out told me that if she is calling me... they are not going to arrest me. You see the order cuts both ways, she isn't suppose to be contacting you either. So, if she is, she is violating her own order. Kind of defeats the purpose, eh!?

I feel for you, sounds like your WW is a screwed up as mine. We are on try number 3 for her trying to take my kids away from me. We'll see how it goes.

Good luck, and keep posting.

Here's a perspective from the other side:

I felt I had to file a restraining order as my xh had threatened to wait for me with a gun and was acting in bizarre ways. I was given an order for 2 weeks, and then there would be a hearing to determine if a permanent order was necessary. I and the children moved out of the home while he was at work to avoid confrontation and because I felt safer moving into town as we lived 10 miles out in the country.

During those two weeks, my xh could not contact me or the children. I felt awful, as I heard thru the grapevine how angry and upset he was. He drove by the house several times a day, contacted friends and told them I was cheating on him, etc. I sincerely wished he would try to understand how I felt and go to our pastor with the idea of reconciliation during those two weeks, but it didn't happen.

At the hearing, I presented letters where he threatened me, letters from friends detailing his actions towards me, and took the stand and told of how his behavior had frightened me and why I needed the RO. He took the stand and ranted and raved about how I was an adulturess, didn't submit to him as the Bible said, was crazy, lying, etc.

I won the restraining order. He broke it 12 times and spent over a month in jail. I got another RO a year later, which is still in effect.

Moral: If you are not at fault, don't act guilty. Be calm. Talk to your pastor or a friend about reconciliation or at least parenting together in a healthy way, But DON"T contact her or the kids or ask anyone to do so for you. It's tough, but it's only a short time. (And you can bet the kids are bugging her about why they can't see daddy.) AT the hearing be calm. Follow your lawyer's advice. Let her dig her own hole. And trust God to care for your children and know what's best for them.

Anna I have not threatened her. I have spoken firmly to her and demanded a love letter from her. She ran away crying saying I will not be harrassed by you. I have been angry but no threats on my part. She has also intercepted my mail that I saw on her car seat.

So far a total of 7 calls from the kids. They did no call this evening. I think she figured out that I will not answer.

It will be tough for the next couple of weeks but I need a break. I mean I fell asleep before 8 tonight and was simply exhausted. I am also afraid for my children and myself. This is just so sureal to me.

Pheonix_66,


--I have spoken firmly to her and demanded a love letter from her. She ran away crying saying I will not be harrassed by you. I have been angry but no threats on my part.

hmmmm--You demanded a love letter from her????
I'm sorry but you can't *demand* someone write you a love letter--and depending on how 'firmly' you spoke--it could be construed as abusive and harassment--

You can NOT demand another person be submissive or do what YOU want--you can respectfully ask--
but you can not demand--

She is not chattle or property--she is a person--

not even God *demands* submission from us--so don't even go there trying to use the bible as support for demanding your wife do anything--

God asks us to give ourselves--but He does NOT demand that we do--He does not force His will on us--

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ThornedRose:
<strong> Pheonix_66,


--I have spoken firmly to her and demanded a love letter from her. She ran away crying saying I will not be harrassed by you. I have been angry but no threats on my part.

hmmmm--You demanded a love letter from her????
I'm sorry but you can't *demand* someone write you a love letter--and depending on how 'firmly' you spoke--it could be construed as abusive and harassment--

You can NOT demand another person be submissive or do what YOU want--you can respectfully ask--
but you can not demand--

She is not chattle or property--she is a person--

not even God *demands* submission from us--so don't even go there trying to use the bible as support for demanding your wife do anything--

God asks us to give ourselves--but He does NOT demand that we do--He does not force His will on us-- </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TR,

If what you assumed was right, you gave the right advice.

However, I must say you are the victim of vague phrasing.

I believe he wanted her to give a love letter exchanged between her and the OM. I don't recall the direction, but that is the letter he was talking about.

However, you are right, you can't really demand anything, for her to write him a letter, or for her to show him a letter between her and the OM.

Ok, I'll go back to lurking. I just wanted to share a fact that I think was important.

HTH,

Tony

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pheonix_66:
<strong>
It will be tough for the next couple of weeks but I need a break. I mean I fell asleep before 8 tonight and was simply exhausted. I am also afraid for my children and myself. This is just so sureal to me. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you hit the nail on the head....since you can't change the situation right now, use this time to pray, get wise counsel, and catch up on your rest. Do some things for yourself....whether it's spending time at a hobby, reading a book, having coffee with a friend, etc. Don't dwell on your pain, but give it to God and work on being the best you can be, that's what your children will need.

Yes, it is surreal....I felt the same way, even tho I instigated the order. It's not the way it's supposed to be. Just keep praying. In time, your wife may even realize that incarcerated inmates are not the best choice for relationships. What do her friends and family think????

javaSansContour,


--I believe he wanted her to give a love letter exchanged between her and the OM. I don't recall the direction, but that is the letter he was talking about.--

TR--Either way--giving him a letter or writing him a letter--He can't demand--

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ThornedRose:
<strong> javaSansContour,


--I believe he wanted her to give a love letter exchanged between her and the OM. I don't recall the direction, but that is the letter he was talking about.--

TR--Either way--giving him a letter or writing him a letter--He can't demand-- </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As I said, with this I agree. I just want to make sure we are using the same set of facts. (I'm a facts kinda guy, LOL)

Tony

When they go for RO, it's time for hardball...I believe you have done the right thing. I would get as much info on OM/the prisoners and their criminal backgrounds for evidence of their character (like they need any more seeing a married woman anyway), and find all phone records, letters, whatnot. Don't talk to her or anything at all. Do not contact her.

She's running scared b/c she knows you have the goods on her. All she can do is try to play you point by point now. She thinks if she can play the abuse/fear card that she might win her day in court.

And I also had RO against my xh. He broke into my home and resisted arrest and they actually arrested him three weeks later. The county actually placed the RO on him for me. He was trying to steal legal docs, got onto my computer to find evidence (?) that I was doing same thing as him, which I was not. During the RO, I allowed him to see our son for visitation during the weekend. The RO is against you from your w, the kids aren't to be used as pawns during this. You should have your lawyer demand your visitation. I could've been the bad guy with the RO but I was not.

Now's not the time to fall apart. I know you still care for her and you want to save it. But protecting you and your kids isn't LB'ing. Imho, you're in a severe plan B now. You're just doing what's right b/c she's placing the kids in a dangerous situation if that guy gets out and she attempts to start somewhat of a life with him. Your kids need you now and you need to be strong for them. She's heavy in the fog. All the jailbird does all day is think of things to say b/c he can't show his actions b/c he's incarcerated. Their little fantasy will for sure fall down if she has to be around him. People don't get into prison for being incredible moral people and good parental role models. Treat her as you would somebody who's mentally ill ok? They can think and are dangerous enough to hurt themselves or others, but smart enough to lie and twist the truth. I was once told that by a clinical instructor when I did alot of brain perfusion studies in college.

I'd also get my attorney to immediately contest the RO based on grounds it's a spin and blame thing b/c she is the one doing something wrong and is possibly putting your kids in danger by wanting to soon expose the kids to this dangerous convicted prisoner. I'd tell attorney to do what he or she has to do and sit back. She is counting on you to back off after her little legal escapade ok?

Let's clarify -I did demand the letter from her that was from the OM. No I cannot demand things from other people but I was very emotional at the time.
My attorney will easily get his rap sheet from the DA, just a phone call. We also have more to get from him but I will not blow my strategy.

java - Stop thinking all men are possesive neandethals. I have never treated her as chattle, nor have I ever demanded she be submissive. What I expected was a partner who worked towards a common vision and shared the blessings of hard work. Often times with people (angry women) on these boards this is the attitude some people take. I appreciate advice but please ask for clarification before you read too much in. I will try to do better when I post as well.

My WW is mentally ill right now and is soo far gone I don't even know her.

JP - The advice about the attorney is the basic plan he and I discussed and will follow. We will request (oops I almost said demand) visitation as well as make up time b/c of this latest farce. Is it possible I could request a Phy eval on her?

<small>[ March 12, 2004, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: Pheonix_66 ]</small>

So, Peachy, You have been through what I am going through now. My wife has been coming back and trying to gather evidence against me in "our" Home to use against me. She hasnt found any. There is none. She is just a psyco and cant accept that she drove me to this. We have had some heated situations as she takes things. The law says she can take what ever she wants and I am to stand back. Fine, but I dont think she should be allowed there when I am not, and rifling through my things, my mail and the computer. I think a R/O to keep her out till we go to court is an oder. What do you think?

I believe an RO should not be used as a tactic to win a divorce. It is to be used only if there is a safety issue and one spouse is in imminent danger from the other spouse. I'm glad your attorney is on top of this. You need to find evidence and as much as you can. Request back phone records. Yes, BBACK phone records and cell bills, and get financial docs so you can find out if she's spending $$$ on the inmate. Maybe sh'es sending him cakes w/files in them, cigarettes, or other highly prized prison gear...lol! I would also request the psych eval. What sane person would want their kids around a convicted prisoner? Either male or female, it's an insane thing to do.

HH--yea, your W is trying and wants to find something. Give her nothing and get an RO if she breaks in your home. I would first get another type of order limiting her access to your residence first.

FYI, my xh was physically and emotionally abusive to me. Now, I wouldn't wawit one second if he becomes abusive with me again or touches me, I will have him in violation of his parole and he's gonna go to jail for longer than one night like last time.

Pheonix_66,

--java - Stop thinking all men are possesive neandethals. I have never treated her as chattle, nor have I ever demanded she be submissive. What I expected was a partner who worked towards a common vision and shared the blessings of hard work. Often times with people (angry women) on these boards this is the attitude some people take.

TR--Actually--it wasn't Java who made the comment about chattle and submissiveness--it was me--and I'm not an "angry woman"--

--I appreciate advice but please ask for clarification before you read too much in. I will try to do better when I post as well.

TR--And this was exactly what java was doing--giving clarification--to what *I* posted--letting me know there was something I missed--

--My WW is mentally ill right now and is soo far gone I don't even know her.

TR--I have a question--has she been diagnosed by a professional as mentally ill?? or is this just your opinion?? but just because you don't know who she is becoming doesn't mean she's mentally ill--

TR - I do not want to get into a battle of wills and opinions with you.

I do believe there is a serious issue with my WW behavior that has been quite disturbing and is potentially dangerous to my children. This is where the sense of urgency is coming from.

Mental illness - It is my unqualified opinion based on the conversations I have had with qualified professionals that I work with in phych hospital.

Additionally, Yes I firmly asked for the letter however she also had several of my bills on the seat of her car that she had stolen from the mailbox. One of which the phone bill with several hundred dollars in collect calls from the prison.

Peachy - I have original cell phone bills with his number listed several times. I also will have their bank account records requested by my attorney.