I started posting my problems on a thread started by someone else, so I now realize I am getting too far off the original thread topic, and that I should start my own thread on my own problems.

I have made progress in talking to my wife over the last few days, concerning what I perceive as a supeiro attitude she displays toward me. I have asked her to agree to change subjects, if I start feeling uncomfortable talking about a particular subject. I might be feeling my oppostional responses kicking up, or feeling frustrated, or feeling irritated. But I can ask my wife to summarize the subject and drop it, or set another time to pick hte subject back up again. My wife agreed to POJA on topics of conversation.

Right now, I am feeling irritated becasue my wife has taken an oposiotnal approach to solving a proble for my son to get better organized in the home for doing college homework. My son has some galf equipment and golf caddy bags around the house, and in his room. I suggested renting a storage locker nearby, where my son could stor his golf equipment, and have access when he wanted to use it. My wife refused adamnantly.

Of course, we are financially stretched with our son going to college, but if he can't do his homework, why go to college?

I could just rent the space without POJA, and offer to divorce if she wants to make a big deal about it.

I am still trying to come up with ideas, for approaching my wife for POJA.

I personally am at least somewhat oppositional, as I am dragging my feet on getting some family tasks done, that logically fall to me.

I am intimidated by my wife, when she is around the house, as she will occasiopnally go off in a tirade. So my foot dragging is in response to her tirade of a few days, or a week ago. Seems dysfunctional to me.

<small>[ March 12, 2004, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>

My son has some galf equipment and golf caddy bags around the house, and in his room.
Tell him to put them in his room.
If he doesn't, hello Goodwill.

It's your house. He needs to abide by your rules or he's out.
He's in college now, all grown up.
Time to stop babying him. He's not learning consequences for his own actions.

Whaler,


--Right now, I am feeling irritated becasue my wife has taken an oposiotnal approach to solving a proble for my son to get better organized in the home for doing college homework.

TR--Why are you irrated that she disagrees with you on how to handle this situation?? Isn't she allowed to disagree??

--My son has some galf equipment and golf caddy bags around the house, and in his room. I suggested renting a storage locker nearby, where my son could stor his golf equipment, and have access when he wanted to use it. My wife refused adamnantly.

TR--And I would have to agree with your wife--
if your already financially strapped why add to that burden???

Your son is an adult--and he should start acting like one--and taking responsibility for his golf bags and other golf equipment--

--Of course, we are financially stretched with our son going to college, but if he can't do his homework, why go to college?

TR--If you are paying for your son's college--and he's failing--let him know--any courses he fails and has to retake because of his own lack of responsible behavior--he'll have to pay for retaking those courses with HIS own money!!

Let me share something with you--most kids--when their parents are paying for college--tend to fail out--they think their parents will continue to foot the bill for them--having been an older adult in college--I seen this time and time again
the kids would say--"well, my parents are paying for it--so it doesn't matter" and once their parents lay down the ground rules--such as what I suggested above--the kids at first don't take their parents seriously--but when they have to pay for their own classes--they straighten up--
and take it seriously--


You will be doing your son an injustice if you continue to encourage his irresponsible behavior--
and taking on HIS responsibilities--for HIS stuff


Think about this way--if you continue to bail him out--(by paying for a rental unit) what will his work ethics be like?? He will expect everyone he works with to carry his work load---and he will be in shock the first time he get's fired because he isn't responsible for getting HIS job done--
because he will not know why he got fired--I mean
mommy and daddy always paid the consequences for him--

if he failed in school--mommy or daddy always called the school and yelled at the teachers--and got an extenstion on my school work--

it's called TOUGH LOVE!! Setting healthy boundaries for your kids so they can learn to be responsible for themselves--instead of mommy and daddy always coming to bail him out---

Dear TR,

Could you describe the boundaries taht you have in mind?

The tough love that I am focusing on for my son is to confront his ODD, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, or oppositional impulses.

I am working the Audio CD's and booklet of Dr. James D Sutton, titled: WHAT PARENTS SHOULD KNOW ABOUT ODD, 2003, from docspeak.com. My son is college age, and ODD theoretaically evaporates at age 18.

My son has been fired from at least on job for poor impulse control. My son has trouble holding jobs, largely because of he believes that the supervisors and owners have ideas not worthy of his respect. His ODD is a major prooblem in holding a job, and he has trouble being on time, which is classic ODD. At age 15 I had him evaluated, and he was found to be ADHD. The maturation of ADHD individuals is slower than average.

It is true that I am protecting him from real jolts. It is true that I am risking crippling him, by protecting him. But with ADHD, a supportive, dependable figure, is one of the keys to success, as opposed to jail, suicide, DWI, etc.

My concern for being too soft, is that I have allowed my son to put me off about sitting down and going over the way in which ODD habits can be identified and changed.

Today, I risk my wife going off on me. My resolve is to politely let her know that it would probably be best if we divorce. The only way I have found to handle my wife's oppostion, is to put it on the line. I did get a combination lock and a storage locker, and a list of some things my son is willing to store outside the house. I have asked for POJA from my wife on the storage locker, but failed. There are 8 weeks of school left in the semester.

Sometimes my wife will not raise a fuss when I over ride her refusal for POJA. But I think, in this case, her concern about money, is penny wise, and pound foolish. My son's room and ht ecomputer rooml are overly jammed with golf bags and wheel carts. My son is behind in his college home work, and the basic rule for ADHD is give the kid a place to do his homework. Spending $3000.00 for the kid to go to college, and not spending $60.00 so he can get his room organized to succeed, is illogical to me. My wife oppositionally ridicules the Dr. Sutton ideas, and if she had a principled disagreement with me, then I could present her side also.

I enjoy fiesty oppositional people, and I like their spirit. I am at least somewhat oppositional my self. But I try to keep my opposition in reasonable check. My wife is in denial about her ODD. For my next marriage, I am going to try to eveluate the oppositional level of attitude of the next candidate, versus cooperational tendencies.

My son says that he is too busy with schoolwork to talk about his ODD. I think the ODD is a factor in his dragging his feet on his homework and his organization of his room. I intend to try to ask him, "Since I have done this for you, I would like ot have a short conversation about ODD."

My plan is to be supportive for my son through this college semester, and attempt to get myself better educated on ODD, and to more effectively coach my son on his ODD. I have tried to let my son know taht I am evaluating my support for collge, on semester at a time. I have mentioned the concept of working a better job to earn more money, and take only a few hours for a semester.

I had been as your parents, yelling at high shool teacher to get my son through high school. It has been several years since high school, and I know George W. Bush and others get through college with heomeweork help, but I have been hands off in College. I think my son is ready to go on his own after this semester, if I can get his ODD on the right track.

<small>[ March 12, 2004, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>

could you sell off some of his golf stuff??

Or what about a storage shed that is in your yard that he could use? a one time purchase deal?

have you ever read james dobson's Tough Love book?
or Townsend and McCloud's Boundaries?

I know many ADHD kids--and all of them when you set up boundaries for them--yes they challenge them--but you stand firm with consequences--and they eventually learn to live within the boundaries--

He needs to learn to be responsible for himself--
get him an alarm clock--

Does he have a tutor at college? if not get one for him--or why can't he do his homework at the college library?

I found the BOUNDARIES IN MARRIAGE book in paper back. I should be able to pick it up tomorrow.

My son is good at playing my wife and I off against each other. I had sandbagged my son by not telling him that his mother had adamnantly refused to go along with a storage locker for 6 or 8 weeks. My son mentioned it to my wife last night, that I had gotten him a storage locker, and she began shooting out sparks, but he managed to get her calmed down, and my wife is still speaking to me, so I am not sure my wife is on board with the storage locker yet.

Getting the storage locker has worked out well so far. I put 6 large items into the storage locker today. My son has taken the intiative to get his homework table organized in the computer room.

Sutton recommends careful examining expectations for ODD kids. Excessively high, or otherwise unrealistic expectations are called Toxic Expectations. Expecting my son to crank out homework when his room is jammed with extraneous stuff is, I would say, a toxic expectation. Taking homework to the library, still takes a certain level of organization in the home.

My wife tends to come up with nice expectations, but without the steps necessary to actually achieve the expectations. Expecting my son to do well in college, when he is oppositional to 3/4 of the teachers, is also unrealistic.

I try to get my wife's POJA on issues, but occasionally I override her, and she settles down after a while. I just never know how long that WHILE is going to last.

<small>[ March 13, 2004, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>

I bought the books, but it was the Workbook that is in paper, and the Boundaries in Marriage as in hardcover.

BOUNDARIES IN MARRIAGE, by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend, Available in Leather, ISBN 0-310-24612-1, Hard back ISBN 0-310-22151-X, and

Boundaries in Marriage Workbook, Paperback, ISBN 0-310-22875-1.

My wife commented on how my daughter did not like to visit our home with her grandchildren. I answered that that was because I was not careful about my wife's boundaries, and my wife enjoyed steppping on my boundaries. I mentioned that we could try to be more respectful to each other's boundaries. My wife almost seemed half-way starting to say, "Yes.", but it was non-verbal.

Perhaps Law #10, Display Your Boundaries is something that I can work on, to apply, as teh boundaries in my marriage are murky, and not clearly defined or expressed.

My wife is short on asking me to share my ideals with her.

My wife fails to respect my types of food I like to eat, by disguising various things I have asked her not to use in cooking. My wife is sneaky and untrustworhty in the kitchen.

My wife throws newspapers away befor I have had time to cut out the articles I wish to keep.

The boundaries suggested By Cloud, have to do with changes that each of us can make in our own behavior, or activities, to enforce teh avoidance of what is displeasing to us.

<small>[ March 16, 2004, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>