</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Remorseful:
...If I want to work things out with my H, I would have to get a divorce from him on his terms (70/30 custody, no child support, no division of investments)-- he claims this would show him that I was not trying to reconcile for financial convenience and that the slate would be clean with regard to my affairs ...

With regard to the girls, I didn't leave them . I still have regular contact with them. I was just respecting my H's wishes, hoping that we would reconcile in the near future...

But I do see that this situation has impacted them and now I am faced with a decision that will impact their lives even more. Of course, I just talked to my H today and he still hasn't filed because he is hoping I would agree to his terms before we brought this to court . So it looks like we are at a stalemate.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">30% time with so small children is not enough!
You already see 'impact' and it'll be worse if you continue doing the same!

You put your H's wishes before NEEDS of your girls!
He lost ('some'?) respect when you were cheating on him as a woman... if I were him you lost now as a mother!


I don' like him at all! (and I was BS!)
I understand he's mad, but his blackmailing at the expense of you& your kids - I'd run from like from hell!

I hope he won't ask you to kill yourself to prove your love for him and devotion to your family! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ March 24, 2004, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

I am so emotionally, mentally, and physically drained from all of this. Once again, I thank all of you for your opinions and I will take them to heart. This past week has been pretty rough, yet again. To update you, for the last 2 1/2 weeks, my husband has been switching days on me for when I am supposed to have the girls. He not only decides last minute that he has plans with this new group of people he hangs out with (some men and women from his work and some people he met at a bar)and asks me to have the kids on the nights he is supposed to have them, but he takes a day away from my appointed time with them. These "plans" that he sets with these people are not job related. So far he has bunked with them in a cabin to go snowboarding, he has gone to a rock concert on last minute notice, and just today he has requested I take them on one of his appointed days so he can bunk again in a cabin with these people to go to Mammoth. When he requested this, I got frustrated and I told him that he needs to take responibility on the days he has the girls and that if he were to make plans, he should make them when he doesn't have them. He then said "well, you say you want the girls more, but now that you are getting them more you are complaining." I tried to let him know that wasn't the issue--the issue was that he needed to stay consistent with our agreement. I also told him that I have absolutley no problem having the girls with me--as a matter of fact, it is wonderful that I have the opportunity to have them more. But I don't appreciate the fact that he springs these last minute decisions on me and thinks he can take my scheduled days with the girls away to make up for his change in schedule. I mean, am I missing something here? Is it unreasonable for me to be frustrated? Plus, he says that if I have a problem with watching them, he'll just find someone to watch them. This upset me even more, because I don't want him to just dump my girls at some babysitters house overnight! So I told him that he was being really irresponsible with the girls. Of course I won't let him take the girls to just anyone, so I know I WILL take them if he really decides to go that weekend. I told him that he has been doing this for the past 3 weeks and that we need to "do something" to get the schedule down where both of us HAVE to stick to it (in other words, we might as well get a divorce and get the custody arrangements made). I really am to the point where I feel going through this divorce AND NOT ON HIS TERMS is the best thing for my girls....Maybe he is just doing all of this to teach me a lesson. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

jskjsk: So you are currently living with a controlling spouse? What exactly are you trying to decide on? And was there any infidelity involved or are you just trying to overcome his controlling behavior? Sorry for being so nosy.

All Alone Again: I see your point. But I don't know that I would go to all the trouble to drag him through the mud. I honestly think I would be miserable--I would have to move on. But I guess from his point of view, he is probably going to drag this out as long as possible so he doesn't have to be financially obligated as the courts would decide. Hmmm. So maybe there isn't any hope of reconciliation--he is just scared to divorce me! UGH!!!

Hired Help: Am I the STBX in the question you posed--the psycho spouse that is making my H not love me anymore? I wasn't sure if you meant me or him. But I understand what you are trying to say. If you were suggesting that I was the one making the divorce difficult on my H, the only reason I would choose for it to go the "messy" way is to protect the rights of me and my girls--and to my H, that would mean a non-amicable divorce because it involves him having to be financially obligated.

Belonging: I never thought about the part where my H would not respect me as a mother. This is why I am seriously contemplating filing for divorce now--because I need to be with my girls. I have wanted to move back into my house, but my husband would not let me. To let you all know, my husband would basically not let me sleep there at the house--one night when he went out to a bar to escape from the hurt, I stayed at the house to be with the girls. He came home around midnight and I was asleep in our bed. He took off the covers and tried to wake me. I told him that I will leave early in the morning and I begged him to let me sleep. He said he did not want me there in the house, so he said he will do everything he can to keep me awake. He would keep taking the covers--and finally he would lay on me wiht his full body weight. I'm 5'4", 117lbs and he is 6'2" 160lbs. I told him to get off me and that I couldn't breathe. I squirmed until I got in a "breathable" position, but he was crushing me. He kept saying that he wasn't going to get off me until I left. He then lay on his back on top of me and put his legs and arms straight up in the air centering his weight on me crushing me even more. I couldn't take the weight anymore and I finally gave in and told him I would go. So I know that moving back there is deifnitely not an option.

Why don&#8217;t you consult a lawyer??? You can have a kind of separation agreement that will establish schedules and time for your kids you both have to respect&#8230; THEN continue on reconciling, or divorce&#8230;

I just think you should stand up for yourself and your kids. You cannot do EVERYTHING he wants just to get him back!
Must be some boundaries of yours!
Yes, you betrayed him, your family, he&#8217;s mad, hurt&#8230; I understand him too well, unfortunately&#8230; but he also has to decide what he wants! And you cannot wait forever that he decides either to reconcile or to divorce&#8230;

You were cheater but not less a person who should take care of her own pride, integrity TOO&#8230;..
Sometimes, wanting to satisfy someone we just make ourselves a plain &#8216;cloth&#8217; for someone&#8217;s foot&#8230;
I never believed that when we allow someone to put us down (because of ANY reason for that one might have!), they can love and respect us! (At least &#8211; I wouldn&#8217;t! &#8211; If you have no dignity, and don&#8217;t respect and love yourself &#8211; - NOBODY will!) So, set some boundaries &#8211; yes, you made mistake yes you want to reconcile, but not at any price!
Also, I&#8217;m not sure you rally want HIM when talking about reconciliation&#8230; maybe that family life back&#8230; cause is &#8220;easier&#8221; than go through divorce, financial issues, division of property, etc.
If so &#8211; that day will come anyway&#8230; better be now&#8230;

I can just tell you what I&#8217;d do&#8230; and we are different&#8230; we also have different approach regarding kids&#8230;
(I&#8217;d never leave without my children, nobody could force me out of the house WITHOUT them! If I had place to go it&#8217;d have enough room for my kids too, otherwise &#8211; there are shelters!)
I&#8217;d find the way to get my kids to be with me ALL THE TIME, with his visitations, before it&#8217;s settled either between the two of you or in the court!
I&#8217;d be with my kids and try to reconcile, tell him what I want and see if we can meet our goals&#8230;
Your As are a good &#8216;wake up call&#8217; for both of you&#8230; you either reconcile or divorce &#8211; don&#8217;t allow life goes in between&#8230;!

<small>[ March 26, 2004, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

Remorseful:

Your speculation as to his changing his visitation to teach you a lesson is just that...speculation. Please stop speculating as to why he is doing what he is doing.

The issues that others have discusseb with you are not issues that are at odds with each.i,e Save my marriage vs. Consult for legal help. They are not at odds...you can contimue to try to save your marriage AND consult an attorney on your rights. These are sensible things to do. The difference is...the former is an option...your choice...the latter is mandatory.

You know...what he is doing is major LBing. This is not good...it will not help save your marriage....set some time lines and goals...explain to him that you want to work on the marriage...if he continually refuses to do that...and continue his behavior...you will either A/ continue to be frustrtated B/ allow him to "bust" you to the point where you may want to file. My point is this. You have more power here than you realize to control your destiny. For goodness sake, take control of your life.

And, by the way...if you want some insight on this...go to Dr. Shirley Glass site @ www.Dr. Shirley Glass.com...she was (unfortunately passed away last fall) an EXPERT on infidelity issues...and her ideas mesh neatly with Harley's...but her perspective is different.


YOu must always keep one thing upper most in your mind...YOU HAVE CONTROL ONLY OVER YOU...

ASk yourself what you want...and how long you are willing to put up with this. Put some boundries in place (and don't waver)...if you don't you will never have any peace or get what you deserve. I guarantee it.


Best to you!

Belonging & Gregg:

I appreciate your points of view. I really am getting to the point where I am seriously thinking of filing. I know my husband told me a few weeks ago that he wants a divorce--I, of course, thought it was reconcilable and he was only saying that out of anger. Because he has been repeating his request for divorce to me AND now he is becoming quite irrational with current arrangements, I am feeling like he does not want to have anything to do with me. I know he is trying to use my guilt to have the divorce go on his terms, but the more irrational he is, the more I see that his terms are not the way to go. I have to admit, his being irrational is definitely making it easier on me to fight for my rights and the rights of the girls.

I know I didn't mention this before, but I did consult an attorney a couple of weeks after my H found out about my affair and kicked me out of the house. I was seriously worried about abandonment issues, but my attorney said it was okay for me to get my own place or stay with family so long as I have the kids with me 1/2 of the time. He said that if my H is giving me problems with the 50/50 arrangment, then I just have to come back and file. I know I have this option. I have been documenting the times I have had my girls and the circumstances. My husband doesn't want to pay child support or move out of the house to downsize to a smaller living space--I told him that anyone who gets a divorce is going to have to downsize, unless they are well-to-do and can afford to stay in their home. He told me that because I had the affair, why should he have to be the one to downsize to pay for child support and divide the assets?

Anyhow, now he is dragging on filing taxes with me. I think I may have to file separately and hopefully I can claim at least one of my girls for some tax relief...

Sorry for rambling. I'll be making my filing decision within the next couple of weeks.

Remorseful:

Your situation is alot similar to mine, in terms of my XWW not feeling appreciated by me, her getting an office job and some one telling her things to meet her EN.

In one sense or the other I do not blame your H for not wanting to pay child support. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Afterall what did he do in the marriage to deserve this? I would understand if you had a violent and abusive marriage, but you had two affairs on him. I am a BS and I was angry that my XWW wanted primary custody and me to pay child support. In the end she is the one who decided that the children would stay with me and her paying the child support. I did not do anything in this marriage to deserve this divorce nor having to pay shild support. Our goals (financial, kids education, retirement) everything was destroyed because of her affair.

I don't believe he should have 70 % custody, as much as you wanting full custody. So, maybe you too should file on your end and hopefully you two can come to a resolution. I don't want my XW to pay child support, and I will not go after her for it either, but i did say when you can afford to help me then do it. Whatever my XW did does not make her a bad mother. I never used my kids as a weapon, I just prevented her from exposing them to OM during affair.

You must work on yourself, get healthy and do what you need to do, you are the WW, read and learn and educate yourself on this site. I did, and had I had known about this site it may have saved my marriage and possibly prevented her from having the affair.

All Alone,

My H did not deserve this. I agree with you. But when it comes to supporting his own children, why is it that he would--or you would--be angry about that? I guess I'm just looking at everything from a logical point of view and I am trying to compartmentalize everything: the marriage (failed because of my affairs), our children (custody-physical or legal), financial obligations (child support expenses), spousal support (i am not even requesting this). My H is angry because he assumes that I wouldn't need the child support and that I would just go and spend the money on anything I wanted for myself. I know he feels this way because he is hurt by me, which is very much how you felt when your XWW requested the same. Because you feel the exact same way, I want to know what your rationale is for not wanting to pay child support for your own kids? Take the hurt away from it and map it out for me, because I am only seeing that he does not want to go this route because he is angry with me and he is looking at it as paying ME and not as a support toward the well-being of the kids.

I even asked if it would make him feel better if he just deposited the money into an account where he can see the details of where the money is going (a joint account for the girls where transactions are recorded or a trust fund for the girls) and he just ignored that idea. I am just trying to do what is right for my girls-emotionally and financially. It is apparent that my relationship with my H is shattered. All I have left from this marriage are my two girls AND a major reason to improve and know myself so this never happens again to anyone in the future. My H did not deserve this--no one deserves this and I hate that I was the cause of it. I have always known myself to be the cause of happiness, not pain. It is what I have to live with for the rest of my life. But all I can do now is move forward.

One thing I can appreciate is that while you were in my H's position, you are looking into what went wrong and educating yourself as to how it can be prevented in the future. How long did it take you to even make that step?

Thanks for your input. The truth in your words hurt. It takes a lot of pride-swallowing on my part to not get defensive and point fingers, but if it makes me a better person and will prevent future hurt, then I'll take it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by All Alone Again:
<strong>In one sense or the other I do not blame your H for not wanting to pay child support. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Afterall what did he do in the marriage to deserve this? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Remorseful:
<strong>H is angry because he assumes that I wouldn't need the child support and that I would just go and spend the money on anything I wanted for myself. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Knowing many couples around me, AAA & Remorseful’s H confirms the same here - it does not matter is it WS or BS – non-custodial parent does not feel it’s right to pay CS.
Unbelievable!
For they won’t be paying for X, but their own children!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Remorseful:
<strong>I even asked if it would make him feel better if he just deposited the money into an account where he can see the details of where the money is going (a joint account for the girls where transactions are recorded or a trust fund for the girls) and he just ignored that idea. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly the same I advised my XWS, and he ignored too.

I was thinking about psychology of a father (I don’t know any non-custodial mom…) and concluded that not only men think it’s giving money for personal use to their X wives, but also – jealousy ( she’ll now have money for her look and will easy get the other man ); above everything(?) - selfishness... If I pay "her", how much money I’ll have for myself, OW, etc… (...)


Sad!

Whenever I hear/read these kind of stories, almost never feel deeply sorry for adults (all of us made mistakes and all of us are paying them…) but very very sorry for – kids!
They have no that privilege of making life decisions, and we really have to put them as top priority when deciding IN THEIR NAME about essential things…

Remorseful, all I said had just one reason... At his age they are, your kids need you (assuming you are a good mom) much more than they need their dad.
(Sorry, dads... no man has convinced me opposite... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )


Good luck!

DEAR REMORSEFUL:

SOUNDS LIKE YOU BOTH DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WANT.

WHEN H TOLD YOU HE WANTED A DIVORCE...WAS THAT FOR ATTENTION...OR FOR REAL?

I THINK YOU BOTH NEED TO SIT DOWN AND REALLY TALK.

SOUNDS LIKE YOU BOTH NEED TO 'GET REAL' WITH THE MARRIAGE VOWS. YOU SAY YOU TOOK THEM SERIOUSLY...

DOESN'T SOUND LIKE IT TO ME..IF YOU TOOK IT SERIOUSLY...WHY DID BOTH OF YOU CHEAT????

WHAT WERE YOU BOTH LOOKING FOR THAT YOU DIDN'T GET FROM EACH OTHER?

SIT DOWN AND TALK TO EACH OTHER ....TELL EACH OTHER WHAT YOU BOTH WANT...INSTEAD OF TELLING IT TO SOMEONE ELSE AND CHEATING ON EACH OTHER!!

GET REAL....DO YOU WANT TO BE SINGLE???OR MARRIED???

PICK ONE AND WORK ON IT....AND DON'T JUST SAY, 'I'M WORKING ON IT"..STICK TO IT...DID YOU EXPECT THINGS TO GO SMOOTHLY? WELL, IT DOESN'T...

YOU HAVE TO WORK ON RELATIONSHIPS EVERY SINGLE DAY OF YOUR LIFE...SOMETIMES I THINK HUSBANDS AND WIVES PLAY 'HURT TACTIC' GAMES...YOU SAY SOMETHING TO HIM OR VISE VERSA, THAT YOU KNOW IS GOING TO HURT EACH OTHER...FOR ATTENTION...NOT MEANING IT...JUST SO YOU CAN TALK TO EACH OTHER...THAT'S NOT THE TALKING THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE...

GO TO COUNSELING TOGETHER...SOMETIMES WHEN YOU SIT DOWN AND HEAR YOURSELVES TALK TO SOMEONE ELSE, IT REALLY HITS HOME...

GOOD LUCK

A BROKEN HEART

WHY SHOULDN'T YOUR HUSBAND PAY CHILD SUPPORT???

IT'S NOT PUNISHMENT...IT'S BEING A RESPONSIBLE FATHER...

YOUR SOON TO BE EX IS PUTTING THE DIVORCE AND FATHERHOOD INTO TWO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES.

I LIVE IN PA. AND WHOMEVER MAKES MORE MONEY USUALLY PAYS CHILD SUPPORT. SO THE SAME AMOUNT OF $$ COMES INTO THE HOUSEHOLD..ESPECIALLY IF THE KIDS LIVE 1/2 TIME WITH ONE PARENT AND 1/2 WITH THE OTHER.

DO YOU WORK? COMPARE YOUR SALARY TO HIS.

SOUNDS LIKE YOUR H WANTS TO HAVE HIS CAKE AND EAT IT TOO....BE SINGLE...AND HAVE YOU AS THE 'BABYSITTER'...CHANGING PLANS AT THE LAST MINUTE SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED...MAYBE HE'S DOING THAT TO YOU, BECAUSE YOU HAVE DONE THAT TO HIM.

PUT TOGETHER A WRITTEN VISITATION AGREEMENT THAT YOU BOTH WRITE TOGETHER...DON'T NEED A LAWYER... GIVE EACH OTHER A COPY AND LIVE BY IT...THEN IT IS QUITE CLEAR WHO GETS WHOM AND WHEN....

YOU TWO ARE BREAKING UP...YOU CAN TELL...HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE A VISITING FATHER...AND YOU ARE SAYING THAT YOU MADE UP YOUR MIND...YOU WANT A DIVORCE...THEN FILE FOR ONE...DON'T TALK ABOUT IT...

OR WORK AT IT...YOU BOTH NEED A PLAN THAT YOU BOTH SIT DOWN AND AGREE TO POINT BY POINT...IF IT'S ALL ONE SIDED NEITHER ONE OF YOU WILL ABIDE BY IT.

COMPROMISE IS THE WORD HERE, A LITTLE GOES A LONG WAY, FOR BOTH OF YOU.

PUT DOWN WHAT YOU WILL ACCEPT AND WHAT YOU WON'T...SOUNDS SIMPLE...BUT WORKING IT OUT IS THE HARD PART...GOING WITH THE PROGRAM IS ALL SPELLED OUT AND MUCH MORE DOABLE.

GOOD LUCK.

A HEALED BROKEN HEART

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Remorseful:
<strong> All Alone,

My H did not deserve this. I agree with you. But when it comes to supporting his own children, why is it that he would--or you would--be angry about that? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>


You had two affairs during your marriage. Affairs are probably the most selfish thing one can do in a marriage. You have shown just how selfish you can be. Twice. It does not take a very far leap in logic to determine why he may have a problem with paying you money. He doesn't trust you. He doesn't trust that you will use the money for his children . . . that you just won't continue to be selfish and use the money for you . . . or worse yet . . . spend in on one of your OM.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <strong> My H is angry because he assumes that I wouldn't need the child support and that I would just go and spend the money on anything I wanted for myself. I know he feels this way because he is hurt by me, which is very much how you felt when your XWW requested the same. Because you feel the exact same way, I want to know what your rationale is for not wanting to pay child support for your own kids? Take the hurt away from it and map it out for me, because I am only seeing that he does not want to go this route because he is angry with me and he is looking at it as paying ME and not as a support toward the well-being of the kids. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>

See above. It may be that he doesn't have a problem taking financial responsiblity for the kids . . . he just has a problem with you being in charge of money. Again, you have already proven that you can put your needs above the needs of your family (2 affairs), why would you think that he should trust your judgement?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <strong>I even asked if it would make him feel better if he just deposited the money into an account where he can see the details of where the money is going (a joint account for the girls where transactions are recorded or a trust fund for the girls) and he just ignored that idea.
One thing I can appreciate is that while you were in my H's position, you are looking into what went wrong and educating yourself as to how it can be prevented in the future. How long did it take you to even make that step? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>

A joint account will not provide your husband with a detailed history of how you spend the money he provides for his kid's care. It will show when and how much money you deduct, but it will not detail how the money was spent. For all he knows you are taking the money to pay for a hotel with your OM.

I am not trying to make you feel bad. I'm just trying to give you perspective as to why he may be angered about paying you money.

In all reality, it doesn't really matter if he is angered, the courts will force him to pay you CS if you are the custodial parent, even if you were the adultress.

Can you now see, considering the above arguments, why he may feel the way he does?

<small>[ March 29, 2004, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Comfortably Numb ]</small>

I have no problem with paying child support for my my kids. But I tend to feel who ever wants the divorce should be the one who pays for it. Unfortunately, this is not the way it works.

Getting married, making a committment(for better or worse), having children and just learning from each other takes a lot of hard work and that is what many people do not want to do. I did not want my divorce, my XW had an A, she wanted the divorce soon after, why get married and bring kids into this world.

BTN: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> At his age they are, your kids need you (assuming you are a good mom) much more than they need their dad.
(Sorry, dads... no man has convinced me opposite... )
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kids need both parents to be there, yes mom gave birth to the kids but there are alot of dedicated dads who make lots of scarfices.

Remorseful
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One thing I can appreciate is that while you were in my H's position, you are looking into what went wrong and educating yourself as to how it can be prevented in the future. How long did it take you to even make that step?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You need to look into what went wrong with you as well, not only your husband. It has been 16 months since my XW affair, it was very difficult for me to get over this trauma. I got alot of moral support, came to this forum everyday and just read, learn and eventually realize I have to work on myself, get healthy again, forgive and move on. It is not easy and it takes alot of energy.

Life goes on, you only live once, things happen such as in the case of people having affairs. The world does not stop because you were a BS or WS. Get healthy, work on you, work on your kids. You may still love you H but don't give in to his demands. He is angry. Chances are he will still be agry even after your divorce. Try and get him to come to this site.

The old saying "what goes around, comes around". What she did to me, well, chances it will happen to her.