I met with my lawyer today. I met with him once before for an initial consultation and was really impressed with him. He is a believer in marriage and is not a shark out to make all the $$ he can. In fact, he wants me to take a reasoned, measured, rigorous and cautious approach to respond to my wife's actions.

In October, I consulted with a young female lawyer who was a real shark. She basically said there are lawyers who believe in negotiation and mediation, but that she isn't one of them. She gave me the impression that she would eat my wife for lunch if I wanted her to. I walked out of her office with a real uneasy feeling in the pit of my stomach. I don't want to see my wife hurt.

Today, my lawyer answered my questions about my "rights" and next steps, but spent half our session basically counselling me on the behaviours I must display over the next little while. So here is some free advice for any of you who may want it (cost me $125.00 for half an hour but was worth it). These points were raised by my lawyer, but in no particular order:

1. We can litigate, mediate, arbitrate, negotiate, or corroborate, or I can act as my own legal counsel. First and last options are dog losers in my lawyer's mind. First will lose both wife and me a huge amount of money and the last option will more than likely take too long and accomplish too little.

2. I was counselled to take the high road in dealing with my wife, even if she is irrational and acting horribly to me. The goal is to be the type of person wife will respect 10 years from now and someone she will regret leaving.

3. Lawyer said I should fight every basic instinct to retaliate or react with every ounce of power I have. I was told that my attempts to be logical and rational with my wife have only inflamed her more (hint: most men do not realize that this rarely works on women). I have written "level-headed" letters to her and have tried to change her mind using reason. Never worked, and in fact may have made things worse.

4. Lawyer asked me to sleep on it for at least one week before responding to the "changed locks" matter. He said, wife is pushing buttons to elicit a bad reaction from me, which will justify her to say to everyone "see, I told you he is like that and that he'll never change". Don't give her the opportunity. My wife's mother has been married 4 times. Three of wife's "fathers" walked out on the family whenever there was real conflict. Wife does not know how to respond to me because I simply will not go away. Doesn't know how to handle it.

5. Lawyer recommends that he write a letter to my wife (but that I should think about it for about one week first) telling her that I will be making certain financial changes to our current arrangements shortly, in order to be able to afford an apartment (currently live in aunt's house while she is in Florida for 5 months - this ends April 15th). He will also strongly urge her to move toward a negotiated settlement, which may only take two lawyers three hours, and which will cost very little money. My wife is scared right now, because I have changed from the pushover to the initiator; doesn't know how to respond to my new fearless attitude (the truth is I am scared ****less by all this). She responds by being wither downright nasty and offensive or acting like she knows nothing and needs things from me. Can't figure her out except to say that she is getting pretty bad advice from some corners.

6. Give myself grace. Don't be too hard on myself. I have no way of really knowing if this is true, but my lawyer said that statistics clearly show that the divorced man fares much better in general than the divorced woman 10 years down the road (to any women reading this, don't give up! If you are the BS, I believe God will take care of you and honour you). He gave me a pick me up by saying, "Mark, your wife must have a screw loose if she is willing to give up a good looking, great father like you, who has a fantastic job and a wonderful heart (even if half of it might be a pack of lies, I needed to hear it for my own well-being).

Shaken

Shaken
Thanks for the update. It sounds like you have gotten a great, level-headed lawyer. Keep him! His advice to "sleep on it a week" is perfect, it cuts down on reactionary behavior. But what advice did he give about the locks after the week is up? Do you have options to handle this?

Our stories are so alike, but I am sad to say that my wife has gotten the best of me at times. As level headed as I can be, she has the ability to really upset me. Our wives sound the same as you may remember. Mine just keeps coming to take things. She denied everything in the initial complaint. Changed her mind many times and just wants to take me down. She is convinced that she is perfect, she has people spying on the kids at school, and it is really upsetting them. She doesnt realize the damage she is still doing to these kids and me. It will be too late for her in the end. I asked her to use this time to repair her relationship with the kids. Instead she is further damaging it. She has lied to everyone about what happened, about her tactics etc. I think she lied to her lawyer also. She lied to a counselor, and he took her side. She is just so lost right now. She has always been in charge of everything, but just seems lost. I feel bad for her and would have wanted her to come home, but her true colors are surfacing though this process.

His advice is for me to think about it for a week, then, on my instructions, he will be happy to draft a letter to my wife.

Though lawyer's advice centred around the things I outlined in my note above, it also had as a major component me using what little leverage I still possess, that is beginning to withhold some money or paying fewer bills as a way to bring her to the table to negotiate a separation agreement "that neither of us will like, but which will be equitable".

This would all be in lawyer's letter to my wife. Lawyer does not think she has a lawyer herself because of all the poor decisions she has been making. Of course, she is also trying to cover up small lies with progressively bigger ones (trying to cover up an affair in a small town is like trying to make Jello stick to the wall - you can't do it).

Shaken

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by avondale25:
<strong> Shaken
Thanks for the update. It sounds like you have gotten a great, level-headed lawyer. Keep him! His advice to "sleep on it a week" is perfect, it cuts down on reactionary behavior. But what advice did he give about the locks after the week is up? Do you have options to handle this? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Hired Help:

In your case, changing the lock was not only the right thing to do, it was a way to maintain your sanity, not to mention your possessions. I have taken very little from the house. In fact, a few weeks ago my WS packed a few boxes of my books for me (including our wedding album - that was a downer, let me tell you) and left them just inside the front door for me. I left her a note saying that she needs to keep them in the house because I currently have no room for them (I have no fixed, permanent address right now). There is no reason for her to change the locks IMO.

I am very sorry for the damage your wife is doing to your children. Mine is doing the same thing, but does not realize it. For example, she is away this week at her mother's. Last week was spring break, yet she told my kids they could stay home from school this week too. I soon put a stop to this line of thinking, because my second son is in learning assistance. His teacher was quite appalled when I told her what my wife said. It is as if she is not thinking at all. Of course, many of us know what the fog of an affair can do (it's all that seratonin in the brain).

Of course, I know the real reason she said kids could stay home from school: she wanted them with me at my house, so I would not go to "our" house and find out the locks were changed (our house is very near the school; my house is 30 miles from the school).

Shaken

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Hired Help:
<strong> Our stories are so alike, but I am sad to say that my wife has gotten the best of me at times. As level headed as I can be, she has the ability to really upset me. Our wives sound the same as you may remember. Mine just keeps coming to take things. She denied everything in the initial complaint. Changed her mind many times and just wants to take me down. She is convinced that she is perfect, she has people spying on the kids at school, and it is really upsetting them. She doesnt realize the damage she is still doing to these kids and me. It will be too late for her in the end. I asked her to use this time to repair her relationship with the kids. Instead she is further damaging it. She has lied to everyone about what happened, about her tactics etc. I think she lied to her lawyer also. She lied to a counselor, and he took her side. She is just so lost right now. She has always been in charge of everything, but just seems lost. I feel bad for her and would have wanted her to come home, but her true colors are surfacing though this process. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Please see my post on GQII. It iss a classic example of what NOT to do in this situation.

Good Luck!

Thanks, GWK:

I read your thread, and it is definitely some food for thought. Thank you!

Can't be sure if I am doing the right thing or not with respect to my wife changing the locks. Honestly, I am more p'd off in principle than I am in practice. I am never in the house anyway (haven't slept there since end of October). In fact, I get the creeps whenever I am over there. Just the thought that wife and lover had at least one night there makes my skin crawl.

Anyway, on Wednesday afternoon, I decided to empty most of my personal things out of the crawlspace under the house. At least I have a working key to this part of the house. I also have a mailbox key (we have had rural delivery to superboxes for a while now).

I decided that if I can't get in the house I'll do the mature thing and rifle through the mail (my mail still comes to the house and wife gives it to me every Friday - thought I would save us both a step). Anyway, there was one Visa bill with both our names on it (this is a joint statement for 2 different cards from the same company). Honestly thinking it was one of my bills I opened it, only to find out it was wife's statement (I have not used my card in about 4 years and owe nothing on it).

Anyway, some of you may have heard the old saying "be sure your sins will find you out". Well, my wife's sins were found out that day. I guess I have given her too much credit for brains. Some of you who know my story know that I first found evidence of a PA on Valentine's weekend. Well, it seems that on February 14th, my wife visited a lingerie store near us called "Sins Lingerie". She spent $59 that day and stupidly put it on our "joint" credit card. Who would have thought that the only mail of my wife's I have opened in years (and this by mistake) would have this item listed on it?

Anyway, I was not surprised to find what I did. I am a little sad about it because I fondly remember the days when my wife used to buy lingerie for me (a little impractical IMO, as it's usually just about ripped off in short order <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) Oh well, more evidence if I ever need it. I really don't much care anymore to be frank.

Picked up wife and older son from airport this morning. I had no desire to talk to her, but I was there for my son, whom I hugged and hugged. My other three children were excited to see their mother and, of course, I did not want to spoil it for them. I left almost as quickly as I came, as I had a pre-arranged ride with someone. My wife offered to take me anywhere I wanted to go but, frankly, I can no longer stand the sight of her.

Do any of you have any spouses who are both attractive and horribly ugly at the same time? My wife is like this....

No word from my MIL about the 7-page letter I sent her while WS was visiting.

Shaken.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by God-within-kily:
<strong> Please see my post on GQII. It iss a classic example of what NOT to do in this situation.

Good Luck! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Well, the latest news is that last weekend I informed my wife that I will be subtracting my lawyer's fees from her next payment (not a lot of money, but $125 for 30 minutes), for legal advice based on her changing the locks.

Today there was more finality in the air. I was told by my employer that, contrary to my previous belief, I am required to take spouse off my extended health and dental plan upon us not living together anymore. Since I moved out end of July 2003, I should have taken wife off the plan 8 months ago. I was not what I would consider "happy" removing her benefits, but confess there is a delicious irony in me no longer paying for her contraceptives.

I also opened a new bank account and will be closing the joint account tomorrow.

This weekend I will let her know about the medical and dental. Next week I will be informing her that, unless she agrees to sell the house so I can get my share of the money out, I will pay only the legally required $1399.00 per month child support (4 kids) and not a cent more (no spousal support) and she will have to pay most of the bills I have been footing for the past 13 years.

I feel divorce is getting closer and closer, but my wife will have to begin paying for HER DECISION to abandon the marriage. This is particularly true now that I will be moving out of my aunt's loaner home April 15th and will definitely have to start paying for my own place.

Yes, I would still take her back if she dropped OM and made a solid, consistent effort to work on the marriage. I doubt this will happen, and am ready to file for divorce myself to be honest.

Shaken

SBNS,
You said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I was told by my employer that, contrary to my previous belief, I am required to take spouse off my extended health and dental plan upon us not living together anymore. Since I moved out end of July 2003, I should have taken wife off the plan 8 months ago. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have YOU read this in your policy? The reason I'm asking (and I know policies differ) is that my H was not required to do this, it becomes a "requirement" upon divorce, not before. Even though we haven't lived together in almost 2 years, I'm still covered by his policy (for which i'm thankful, after having unexpected major surgery last fall).

I would hate for you to act upon someone else's (even if it's from the HR person) knowledge without being sure of it yourself - we don't want it to come back and bite you.

<small>[ April 02, 2004, 06:06 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>

Shaken,

Watch out for the loss of medical insurance. If your wife gets very sick and is not insured, she may use up your assets to pay the medical bills since they are still in both of your names. I wonder about the advice you were given. Check it out first hand. Usually, the divorce ends the medical coverage, not moving out. And even then your wife can apply for Cobra coverage if she chooses.

Like you, I would gladly take my wife back if she would drop the OM, agree to No Contact and start her part of the job of rebuilding the marriage.

Alas, I fear this will never happen. Very sad.

<small>[ April 02, 2004, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: JustinExplorer ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was told by my employer that, contrary to my previous belief, I am required to take spouse off my extended health and dental plan upon us not living together anymore. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you are in the US, I believe this is illegal. You cannot drop a spouse from insurance (health, auto, life, etc) while divorcing.

Your lawyer sounds good. REmember he is not your counselor. You may also need one of the these.
Some suggestions. There are many good books on helping people with the emotional side of divorce, get some. Also get Mom's House/Dad's house. This will help you formalize your custody proposal. Other books will help you with your property settlement proposal.

Do as much work as you can prior to meeting with your lawyer. You can draft a document and he can edit it for you with legalese. This saves time and money, especially if your lawyer uses e-mail.

I had the lock issue too. My first lawyer goaded me into it. I only changed the locks after X took all the business stuff out (3 months after he left). The police told me he could reenter at any time. Police can be very helpful in these situations. X's lawyer drafted a letter saying he wouldn't enter the premises, so the police had this too, as did the locksmith.

Good Luck.

Some of you have asked some good questions, but mainly the same one: do I have the right to cancel wife's medical insurance and am I sure that I have to?

Sadly, the answer to the first question is not that I have the right, but that I would be committing fraud if I kept her on my family insurance. I had this verified with my employer's benefits office. I also printed out a copy of the policy for my wife and phoned her to tell her (left her a voice message, as she was not home). Told her I was really sorry it came to this, but that I have to remove her from my plans and should have done so when I moved out of our home in July.

I live in Canada, so the situation is not the same as it is for most people on this board who are American and, while getting excellent medical care, pay huge amounts for insurance.

Our total family medical premium per month is $108 CDN, or about $75 US. My wife will, starting May 1st, have to pay $54 CDN for her medical insurance. This will not be a life or death thing, but will PERHAPS help her wake up a bit.

The big thing for her will be the extended health benefits and dental coverage she will lose. Extended health in my plan pays 80 percent of all prescriptions, amongst other things, and this will hurt her a bit. So will the loss of dental coverage (heck, a cleaning costs at least $125).

Anyway, thanks for your posts everyone. This will be a very telling week or two, as I will soon inform wife that I am cutting back money, paying only the required child support amount.

This is the worst experience of my life. I would gladly take it all back for one chance with my wife. But she stopped caring long, long ago (at least 3 years IMO) and I can no longer afford for her to have her cake and eat it too.

Shaken

Depending on your plan... if you and she are covered by a group health plan, you need to carefully check the definition of dependent. If the definition says that a spouse is no longer eligible at a legal separation, then you can drop the coverage due to her no meeting eligibility requirements. However, if you plan has more than 20 employees that will just trigger a COBRA qualifying event for your wife. The courts most likely will ask you to pay the cost of COBRA which is generally hundreds higher than payroll deductions are. You cannot drop her without a "qualifying event" usually, especially if you participate in a Pre-tax section 125 plan. You need to check with your employer, but be very careful of the language you use. Some plans just define spouse as being legally recognized in the state in which you live, others go on to say that the same residence is required etc. Of course there are sometimes state laws too.

Until you have a legal separation filed and approved by the court, I don't expect there is much you can do. and even then you may still be looking at picking up her premiums until the divorce is final.

It's really hard to say. Cobra laws if applicable do protect individuals when they lose coverage. If she is not employed or is employed where benefits are not available, and you have previously been providing this coverage, I would check with your lawyer as to his/her opinion regarding this.

There are so many what-if's. Read your SPD( Summary plan description) very carefully. If you don't have one, request one. By law, it has to be provided to you.

In my case, my ex changed jobs right about the time he left home so I was covering myself and the kids on my coverage until his benefits kicked in. Now he covers the kids and I cover myself but i'm still responsible for the first $250 on each child and he is supposed to pay 50% of any balances but never has other than the ortho bill which I finally just paid my part then turned over to him.

Hope this helps.

Lynn

I'm so sorry. I didn't read your last post for some reason before I responded.. Just ignore me.. you have this under control...Probably just the Lortab... I had knee surgery this morning. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Rules are different in Canada for sure.

I work for a group health claims administrator in the states but we do have some candian dental clients.

Regardless, I wish you luck with everything.

Lynn