Hi there! I am usually on the infidelity board, but Divorce has been brought between us. the problem is that WH thinks that our three boys will "get over it" if Divorce is the final solution.

WH is the product of a divorce and he never got over it. I KNOW that children never ever get over the fact that their parents will never be together again. Instead of having birthday parties, christmas mornings, easter egg hunts, weekends at the park and family vacations to look forward to...They are now going to be looking forward to seeing Daddy every other weekend and one night a week. Not only that, their entire routine they have known for so long is now shattered. Daddy is no longer there to do the things that he used to do with them and mommy is left to fill those shoes.

I am no the product of divorce, but I have seen the hurt in childrens eyes' when I look at them. INstead of eating together at the table everynight as we used to, there is now an empty space. going out to eat is not the same.

I was wondering if you all can give me some GOOD insight on how Divorce effects a child for the rest of his life or some good articles for my WH to read about this.

We are currently trying to reconcile the marriage and it looks like it might be able to be done, but I do want him to see what the kids will go thru if he does decide to divorce. Thanks so much!

MT3B:

I'm in the same situation as you, WH wants a divorce and doesn't think it will have an adverse affect on the kids. Our MC suggested a book to read: The Case Against Divorce by Diane Medved. It goes through the ramifications and consequences and how it affects not only the children but yourselves. I'd suggest reading it and perhaps having your WH read it too.

Schmink

If separated now, purchase "Mom's House/Dad's House" and How to Help your children cope with divorce the Sandcastle's way.
There are many good books out there and also counseling programs.
Look up www.rainbows.org to see if there is a class in your area.

I am brand new to the board and have been on the emotional needs board. Going through a bad situation with my W (see Things are really bad). One of my arguments to my W is that not trying to work things out and the old "It's better for the kids if we were apart since we are so unhappy" is a cop out. My father left when I was 4 and 34 years later it still affects my life. The theory that the kids will get over it is an adults justification to ease ones own guilt. It is never better for the kids regardless of age, but especially when they are little. I hope you work things out for all of you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It is never better for the kids </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A generic statement which may not be true.
Removing children from exposure to an abusive situation is better, if the parents do all they can to help the children heal, and make sure they (the parents) are emotionally healthy.

I&#8217;m sure that D affects kid&#8217;s healthy growth, happiness, frustrations&#8230; they will miss FAMILY, both parents not being together&#8230;

In what degree?
It depends most on custodial parent (better if both parents contribute to smooth these consequences by continuing to care, love and 'be there for' their kids&#8230;)


(PS: I'll never believe when someone say &#8211; "I stayed married JUST for kids' sake"&#8230; It&#8217;s just an excuse&#8230; sorry but it is!)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Removing children from exposure to an abusive situation is better, if the parents do all they can to help the children heal, and make sure they (the parents) are emotionally healthy </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are not in an abusive situation. This was a great family before the A my H is having. We always do things AS a family. So No, there is NO abuse in this marriage.

I was responding to the generic comment, not your situation.
BTW, since H is already out of the house, your boys are probably already experiencing some of the effects. These books are great resources.
Also, kids get depressed from separation.
Don't ignore the signs of depression if any exist.

I'm divorced and re-married. Same for my W. She and I both had one son. We added a third two years ago.

Both our first sons now have stepparents, stepsiblings, and half-siblings.

All of the parents talk well 99% of the time and there are few problems for the past couple of years. My W's ex-H recently had another child. My W went to visit them and has never shown any signs of anger toward the OW (even though she was in fact the reason my W split with her H).

The two older boys are 8 years old. I've spoken with both recently and they love our family -- the extended family. I've asked them would they prefer both their parents lived together and they've both said, no, because they are aware there was fighting.

My stepson said today, "My Dad really loves XXXXX and she loves him. He's very happy."

There are occasional emotional moments, but on the whole, all the kids seem to be happy with the situation. I put it down to the cooperation of all the adults. I'm not at all convinced that this is a bad situation.

Some things to consider:

I'm a product of a bad marriage. My mother stayed in the face of verbal abuse and physical abuse "for the kids". They are still married, now 57 years. My dad has changed, my mother is as wounded, defensive and hostile as ever. (The violence stopped 25 years ago; the verbal abuse, as far as I can tell, stopped 10 years ago.)

You now can read the posts of another young woman, who's parents didn't divorce until she was 23 years old. Read how she has inserted herself as referee between her parents. Clearly, her parents staying together for as long as they did left their mark on their oldest, as we see the evidence of it here on this board. (A_diff_view is the poster, if you care to read up on her 3 part story.)

Divorce is never ideal. It causes wounds that are hard to heal. But a bad marriage has it's own collateral damage that many would do well to consider.

What really SUCKS is when one Spouse BASHES and CONTINUES to bash the other Spouse to their kids and it becomes BRAINWASHING.
Such is my case. My kids think I'm worse than Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, Idi Amini and Osama Bin Laden all rolled into one...
They won't even talk about it to me; one kid finally half-heartedly talks to me on occasion (after USMC Boot Camp) and the other still refuses to - they've played games all this past 6 years since the Divorce.
I took the High Road - I never once said one single bad thing to them about their Mother. I left them with nearly all our Marital Property and moved away. Their Mother was the WS. Whatever.
----------------
Please, I ask that, if you do divorce, never have a bad word to say to your children about your other Spouse. It will help everyone out in the long run.
Just My Experience.
TDL

I'm in the process of a divorce. My STBX and I were married for 13 years. The last 3 in more or less total attempt to resolve our issues and work on things.

As you can see, the time came, we decided, more or less together, that it was time to split.

We have three beautiful daughters, 9,8,6. They are wonderful, the light of my life. I cried for quite a few nights over the prospect of living with this "daddy's house", "mommy's house". All of my dreams and expectations of life as a family were shattered. Gone. Done. I wouldn't ever accept the idea, becuase of the kids. but finally, STBX had enough, and said it had to be.

So, we made our agreement together, so we could tell the kids what was happening. And I moved out into the new house I had been building for my family. We share the kids...everyday after school they go to mom's. I pick them up everynight around 7:30 and they are with me all night. In the morning, I take them to school. Every other weekend we flop, becuase she is working nights and everyother weekend. One of the joys of nursing.

She is much happier, I am much happier, and the kids are doing great. Yes, they are generally, overall, happier.

Yes, there are moments were the youngest will say "I miss mommy", and I hear the reports of her saying "I miss daddy". There are times I am sure when they hope we all will get back together. But it won't happen.

We eat dinner together sometimes, my house or her house or go out. Parties are shared. Holidays are even shared, in the snese that I went there to open presents for christmas, then they all came to my place later, mom included.

Divorce is the end of the marriage, I still don't think it needs to be the end of the family. And certainly it is NOT the end of life.

Rather, indeed, a new beginning.

My kids have never seen a happy couple together. They have never seen a couple working together towards a goal. They have never seen what life, in a marriage, should be. They have seen what is shouldn't be. They have seen us try and work things out, tyr and enjoy life with each other and together. They've never seen it work.

So, yeah, the time has come...and I think they are doing well. Great in school, no issues, no problems. Sure, some sadness. But I am also sure, more happy times without the tension and problems of the miserable marriage.

When we talk about it, the eldest says instantly she is much happier, the middle has to think for a few seconds but says yes, and the youngest will say that she wants us all to live together again...but she's doing well.

So, it all depends on how you handle it. Read the previous post by safety I think it was...it sounds good. Kids see evrything, they learn from it. Show them something good. Show htem years of effort...and if it fails, show them it is good to learn form your mistakes and fix the problem. Don't show them constant suffering.

Most importantly, don't f!ck up the kids with a nasty, fighting, hideaous divorce. If there's another W or M involved, deal with it, for the sake of the kids.

That's what I'd say.

Once you get to the point that you KNOW, without doubts, that you have done EVERYTHING you can, than don't keep beating the dead horse. It get's really stinky. And the smell spreads...and it seems it must burn in the brains of the kids...that this is what marriage is...and this is how it smells. Yuck.

But ask me in 20 years...I'll be able to tell ya more.

I've seen ugly divorces, and they do nobody any good. I hope to experience a good one, where everyone is happy. Happier in fact.

Welcome to the board! It's a great place to work things out. You'll get a variety of viewpoints that will help you figure what is best for you and your family.

"I was wondering if you all can give me some GOOD insight on how Divorce effects a child for the rest of his life or some good articles for my WH to read about this. "

Newly gave you some great advice. I second the books that she recommended. They are extremely helpful and detailed. Divorce will affect a child from short-term, minimally to lifelong extremely. It all depends on how the PARENTS handle it. If both parents make a point to put the kids first, they will adjust well and go on to become well adjusted, happy adults. If one or both parents put the kids in the middle, use them as weapons, don't consider their needs first, the kids could be in for a very tough time. It depends on the coping skills of the child too. Some are just better emotionally equipped to deal with adversity. Some are not so well equipped. If you and your H do divorce it is imparative that you get counseling at least for you and him. Coparenting well would be essential then.

You said,
"Instead of having birthday parties, christmas mornings, easter egg hunts, weekends at the park and family vacations to look forward to...They are now going to be looking forward to seeing Daddy every other weekend and one night a week. Not only that, their entire routine they have known for so long is now shattered"

Yes, things would change. That doesn't have to be all bad. My kids enjoy having 2 bithday parties, 2 Christmas', 2 celebrations for big holidays! It's been a real bonus for them. Might I ask why their Dad has to be relegated to only every other weekend seeing them? It would be better for the kids if they could see their father more often.

TFS

momto3boys,

I am also a mom to 3 boys...and I'll tell you about my experience with divorce and how it has affected my kids.

For one, my ex was extremely abusive the 10 years we were married. (to me) He was verbally abusive to the boys. My children were ok at first but my oldest is now having problems. He is suffering from depression (is in the process of being evaluated. He is threatening suicide and is extremely angry. He's always wanting to hit someone. He says that he doesn't understand why he is even here (alive) and explodes when one of the younger ones even makes a face at him (he is 14 BTW). I just recently found out that he is smoking occassionally and has tried smoking pot. The good side of this is that he is talking to me about this and we are trying to work thru this and help him. And ya know what? He has a good life. He has 2 brothers, 2 step-brothers and a great step-father now. He has wonderful grandparents who would do anything for him. He is an axcellent athlete, excelling at baseball and was picked as Player of the Year for his football team and nominated for the Lineman of the Year award for the entire league. He also has a job already. He works on weekends for a friend who has a landscaping business.

But his grades a falling in school, he's been suspended for fighting (he actually didn't start it), is losing weight (he's 6'2" at 14 yrs old and has gone from 180lbs to 171lbs.)And it all is coming back to him feeling like his dad has abandoned him. (his father only sees him about 2x a year). This is what divorce can do to kids.

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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<small>[ March 24, 2004, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: HofFenceSitter ]</small>

momto3boys-

I applaud your reconcilation efforts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Don't be disappointed when you hit rough spots. It will happen. But there are ways to work together to make a happy, healthy marriage. The powers of commitment are incredible.

For those interested in the effects of divorce on children, I found the following reference that you might be able to pick up at your local library:
CHILDREN OF DIVORCE videotape
$24.98 (plus shipping, and sales tax in three states.) ITEM CODE: A3275-WEBHV Order 1-800-645-4PBS, or from http://shop.pbs.org/tuqKmdPAPQ/products/A3275
This video should be shown to any couple who is even contemplating divorce -- or to any couple who has kids. Join host Fred Barnes as he
exposes the myth of the "Me Generation" that "if divorce is good for the parents, it’s good for the kids." Taking a no-holds-barred approach, this 60 minute tape seeks out the leading authorities and both young and now-adult
children of divorce to prove - with their thoughtful, stirring first-person accounts - that divorce is ultimately very damaging to children.
Features Barbara Dafoe Whitehead, Judith Wallerstein, etc.

Also, the Smart Marriages website has an extensive list of articles that include topics related to the effects of divorce on children at:
http://www.smartmarriages.com/marriage.reports.html

Good luck and don't be shy about asking for help along the path toward recovery. There were probably lots of people there at your wedding supporting you and the commitment you were making to marriage. Many of them I'm sure will be ready to stand up and give you a hand during your recovery.

HoFS

<small>[ March 24, 2004, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: HofFenceSitter ]</small>

MitZi...I have a question.


First, Momto3, let me say that I think you should do everything to save the marriage. Perpare yourself for the long haul, it isnt a week or month project, it will take years. Years. And spend them doing all you can.

Mitzi, how can you be certain these problems were cuased by divorce? How do you know it is not the marriage itself, and being witness to the abuse? How can you separate the divorce from the marriage problems? Perhaps if you divorced even sooner, perhaps things owuld be better now?

I don't know the answer, and I am NOT trying to stir up problems. I am very interested in how you can distinguish the two.

Thanks.

certainly if both H and W feel the right thing to do is seperate then staying together wont help anyone including the kids. if one parent is a severe abuser then it to is a bad situation, but the abuser will be a lousy parent no matter what. the problem there is not the marriage or divorce it's the abusive nature of that person in those circumstances you may have no choice. but it is far from ideal situation, it's just the best you can do. however, i still believe that trying to work the situation out between each other should be the priority for everyone involved. although i respect everyones opinion and believe that there are some very well adjusted kids of divorced families, i believe they dont get to play on a level playing field as kids who have their parents (in a happy relationship) together. i would love the opinion of an adult from a divorced family who felt they had as much if not more than a married family. my opinions may be tainted by my situation.

It is always so hard to make generalizations like such and such is good, and such and such is bad. I am in the area of child development and mental health and this is what I've read...

It is very dependent upon how the parents handle it. It both strive to minimize the negative impact on the kids - then the impact of divorce can be minimal and overcome. Like TFS said - if both parents put the kids above thier own emotional needs, don't use them as weapons, etc.

That being said, parents that behave in ways that hurt their children when in the course of a divorce are going to do just that - hurt their children.

But research that I have read shows that marital conflict is typically the part that damages kids (with our without divorce) - not the actual D itself. so it truly is about how the parents handle themselves and how involved they remain in the lives of thier children. and of course D is not somehting to be taken lightly.

hope this helps...
lfc

I hate to see what divorce has done to my family.....I think the whole thing was self-centered behavior on my ex's part. It still is. He isn't thinking of the kids...only himself.

Sure kids can get by...and possibly "move on" acceptably with new relationships. But divorce is hard on everyone...especially the betrayed spouse.....who, by the way, has to be the strong person, keep the family together, traditions going, homework, etc, etc.---BUT make sure the "Kids are number 1". RIGHT.....and this is all financially a sound move---99% of the time, it isn't.

I think these opinions are determined on what side of the fence you are on. If you are the betrayed spouse and the custodial parent--I feel divorce generally sucks. If you are the WS--it seems like they can rationalize away almost any problems with their behavior and their actions towards their families and how it will affect their children ---and the really sad part is our society is allowing them to do it. Given enough time comments like these are what I hear all the time:

"Oh, you have such wonderful kids--and they are doing so well...how do you do it all alone?"

They don't realize the struggle, the emotional hurt, the constant ways divorce affects us every day.
or
"Well, maybe divorce was good for all of you...you seem to be doing fine" See what I would like to say above....

0r
"I see you have a new someone that comes over all the time...things must be going well" Life is still a struggle...and I think we all feel the devastating hurt and the "whole" that is missing from our family.


I can tell you how my kids feel about our divorce. They feel betrayed by their father. They hate having to uproot their lives every other weekend to go up to their house. They don't like his wife at all...and having to have her thrust at them by my ex makes it worse. They hate that the relations between my ex's extended family and us has been strained....my ex's family--especially the grandparents want me out of the picture...and life to go on as usual with my ex and his "wife"....won't happen tho with my kids---it just makes them mad. My kids hate having two Christmas's. They liked our life as it was---and unfortunately, it will be changed forever. My kids have lost their innocence through this whole mess....and that they never should have had to face. Their foundation has been shook to the core...are they still great kids--yes they are---Does it affect their outlook on life...you bet it has. Are they cynical about marriage now...yep, they are. Guess I am rambling. Sure, some divorces are better than others....but NO divorce is a good divorce as far as I am concerned....and we make it way too easy, expecting everyone to just pick up and move on. Divorce scars...and I think it is a shame in most instances. Pat