My husband and I've been married for five years. From the very beginning, our relationship was doomed. My husband is an alcoholic and we separated a year after we were married.

He promised to "sober" up and went to AA--of course that was due to a court order, as part of his punishment for his FIRST DUI.

Two years later, we had a child. Our relationship was still on the rocks. I told him that I wanted a divorce because I wasn't happy and he REFUSED to give it to me. He boo-hoo'd and promised to get better.

Last August, he was jailed for his second DUI. We had to shell out $8,000 for his defense attorney, not to mention, manditory state fees. His license was suspended for one-year.

Last month, he was involved in an accident and he paid the person he hit $300 to keep them from calling the police. He continues to drive around town, without any regard for breaking the law.

Each time I question him about it, he totally ignores me. He lost his job in Feb. and I quit my job earlier that month to start my own business. Now, we're using up my reserve cash, as he is ineligible for unemployment.

Instead, he took a large chunk of money and decided to go to a real estate school, approximately 30 miles away. Each day he's on the road, he's taking an enormous chance at being arrested.

I'm so sick of him that I honestly don't know what to do. I can no longer stand to even look at him. I feel like he's taken too much from me; asked to much of me and I'm done.

Am I wrong for wanting to give up?

MSJones

It's not to clear what you are looking for. You came to "Marriage Builders" and jumped right to the divorce forum.

It sounds to me like you are mad at your H for his mistakes, which is understadable. The question is, what do you want in the way of advice.

Do you want to improve your Marriage, because that is what this site is all about.

There are many people here that can give you advive on dealing with the situation that you are in and give recomendations on how to improve things.

If you do find yourself on the undesired road to Divorce, then there are others that can offer support.

WIWH

I am sorry but why did you end up having a baby with an alcoholic. Maybe you thought he would change for the better after the baby came.

I would have divorced him way before children came into the picture. But I am just that way. He is driving illegally now and risking other people.

Wow, before you go broke, you better divorce him. He cannot even get a real estate licence unless he has a good driving record. You know he cannot be driving people around showing homes. What is he thinking. I think they need a special drivers licence but I am not sure.

Sometimes you tend to hang in there a little too long. Have you urged him lately to get treatment?

<small>[ April 07, 2004, 01:04 AM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you want to improve your Marriage, because that is what this site is all about.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I disagree -- I came to this forum "Divorce/Divorcing" because I am divorced (was when before my first post) -- I came here for advice and support because I was hurting.

Welcome -- I for one did NOT want to improve my marriage, but understood that *some* marriages, no matter what you do, will end in divorce. The concepts in the Marriage Builders site is sound and based on good principles. Whether it will save your marriage or end it, is totally up to you and your spouse.

Firstly -- BE SAFE. You have a child that you need to consider first and foremost. Your fears are valid! The man you married is sick -- sick, as in he has a disease. Have you tried attending ALANON? They may be able to give you some support in dealing with the alcoholism and setting some good boundaries for yourself and your child. It sounds like you are concerned financially, and so you should be. Be aware that anyone who has an accident in Canada has up to two years to pursue a claim (don't know what the rules are in the US). The fact that your husband threw some cash at them won't stop that, and he could well be looking at a future lawsuit if the persons present a claim. Because he broke the conditions of his policy (driving without a valid license), his policy will be voided. Any financial restitution will come in form of a personal suit, which includes ANY assets -- including YOURS and your child's.

In response to "special driver's licence" -- he needs an endorsement added to the existing policy, which would cover people in his own vehicle as part of his business. Again -- he would have to present a *valid* license before the policy endorsement is added.

It sounds like you have thought of the financial aspects of this, and you are afraid (as you should be). Divorce is a two-part business. Emotional (the cost of what it does to you and the children of the marriage) and Business (the financial, the lawyers, the agreements). You've started a *business* during the course of your marriage, be aware that he could obtain 1/2 of the assets accrued in that business and potential future earnings of the business (consult a lawyer).

Firstly -- get yourself a lawyer. Find out what you and your child are entitled to. Realize that the cost will be YOURS alone as this man doesn't have anything. You most likely will not receive a penny in terms of child support. This man has already been in jail for DUI, so it is highly likely that he would also serve jail time for non-payment of support. Realize that you alone will be financially responsible for raising your child and providing everything for that child (which by the sounds of it -- is the same as what you are doing NOW).

Secondly (or maybe this one should be FIRST! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )-- protect yourself. Physically. Do NOT let him drive with your child in the car. Do not leave your child with him alone. If he drives under the influence, you can bet your bottom dollar that his responsibility IQ is 0. Keep your child safe.

Financially -- protect yourself. Get yourself a credit card in YOUR name. Take your name off ALL joint credit cards. Write all your creditors and tell them you are not responsible for ANY debt after the date of your letter. You will be responsible for 1/2 of the debt of all the cards you hold now until you do this.

READ THIS SITE - Plan A and Plan B. Understand the concepts. Get yourself some counselling. IF the drinking would stop, would you still want to be with this man? IF he stopped driving, would you still be with this man? Sounds like the alcoholism is what is getting you down. I am not encouraging you to end this relationship, but I am saying that you need some firm boundaries and you need to take steps to financially and physically protect yourself and your child. Taking these steps are a clear indication to him that you are NOT going to be responsible for the choices that HE is making in his life -- he's totally on his own. He CAN make the choice to make those changes -- but it seems that no matter what you have done to this date, he is not. You said he just ignores you when you question him. It's time to STOP questioning him and time to MAKE A STAND.

- The drinking HAS to stop. NO OPTION.
- He HAS to stop driving without a license. NO OPTION. He has to make arrangements to get to and from his classes. (His license will be re-instated in August -- gives him 5 months to pull up his socks and take responsibility for his choices).

It's obvious that a court decision (removing his licence) has not made a difference in this man's life. I highly doubt that your threats of leaving will do anything either. Start taking those steps to protect yourself and your child. Even the Harley's advise to leave when you are in danger -- marriage vows or not, you have to protect yourself.

This is not the first time I've been on the marriage builder's site. In 2000, when we first split up, I went to the marriage builders site, printed out the PDFs of exercises and tried to engage him in them. He never looked at them.

In 2001, I started going to therapy and ended my sessions at the end of 2002. I went through two years of intense individual psychotherapy to deal with our marriage. My husband came to two marriage counseling sessions and decided that he didn't have any problems. So he quit.

His father was an abusive alcoholic. His mother was a passive housewife--who'd rather stay with that kind of man, than try make it on her own.

I, on the otherhand am very independent. I put myself through school: no student loans or grants. I was married once before, but that relationship ended in divorce because I was too immature to deal with the responsibilities of marriage.

I think I'm hanging on because I don't want to be a twice-divorced, 30-year old woman. However, at the same time, I know that, the longer I stay, the more resentment builds.

The most important things to me right now are (in this order): my children, my business, myself. Right now, he doesn't seem to make the list. I really enjoy being my own boss. He doesn't really take what I do seriously. He doesn't see the value in what I do; perhaps because he doesn't see the value in me...period.

At this point, I don't really think he loves me; he just needs me. He is an extremely selfish man who fails to see the beauty in difference. He's a chip off the old block. His father is very controling, dominating and self-serving. When we visit them, he refers to the things in the home as "my TV, my VCR," etc. When his mother speaks, he talks over her or just flat-out ignores her. His father really does not respect or appreciate his wife. Oh sure, he'll tell anybody that she's the best thing since sliced bread. But he treats her like a "wife" not a partner.

To answer the question, "Why did you have children with him?" We were not supposed to be able to have children. He was sterile; which made things even more complex because everyone in his family just "knew" that the baby was not his. Turns out, his son is his spitting image.

In conclusion, I've been a loyal member of the site for four years now. I suppose that's why I feel like enough is enough.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you want to improve your Marriage, because that is what this site is all about. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Since when does a poster decide for others "what this site is all about"? Yeesh! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> In conclusion, I've been a loyal member of the site for four years now. I suppose that's why I feel like enough is enough.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We've both been at this site about the same amount of time! I've since remarried.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Am I wrong for wanting to give up? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think I'm hanging on because I don't want to be a twice-divorced, 30-year old woman. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wrong reason!!!

Check out the suggestions that Elan gave you!

I think you already know the answer to your question.......it is going through the motions that's holding you back. Protect your family and yourself from financial and physical harm!

Msjones,

Do not feel that you have to defend yourself here in any way. As far as I know, MB is open to all who respect the rules and are looking for help and support.

Your title 'what if the spouse refuses to leave' really was not addressed in your post but I will say that for your own sake, if he refuses to leave, then you leave.

I would divorce him asap because if he injures someone or kills them, you are going to be held financially liable for it. And as he doesn't have anything, where will the $$ come from?

Rent an apartment, move in with a friend, just get away.

Good luck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Since when does a poster decide for others "what this site is all about"? Yeesh!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What this site is about was determined bu the founders. What you use this site for and what you get out of it is up to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Marriage Builders Home Page

In this Marriage Builders® site, you will be introduced to some of the best ways to overcome marital conflicts and some of the quickest ways to restore love.
Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr. has saved thousands of marriages from the pain of unresolved conflict and the disaster of divorce. His successful approach to building marriages can help you build yours.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree that there is plenty of support for those of us that end in D but most would not come to a site like this with the initial intent of D. They come here to try to save their M.

Ms Jones, I didn't realize that you have been a long time member of MB. My point was not to put down anyone that is here for support in a D. I'm here for the same reason.

I've decided to take some action today. I removed him from my insurance policy (requested an exclusion) and I'm doing some research on how I can get rid of his Tahoe.

Both automobiles and the house are in my name. I don't think I'll have any problems selling his vehicle. I also need to remove my name from our joint checking account--pronto! I'm just monitoring it to ensure that the last few checks have cleared.

I'm scaling down our monthly expenses and looking at divorce options. I don't think he'll fight me on the divorce. He may contest the property division though. His family is going to be the biggest obstacle. Certain family members will convince him that he's the victim and I'm unreasonable. Of course, none of them have had to fit the bill for his indiscretions.

It helps to keep "someone" posted on my progress. And it helps to have objective advice...even if it's not what I want to hear right now. I know it's what I need to hear.

Thanks,
MJ

I agree about the family member opinions. That holds true for just about everyone.

Some of my family sees STBXW as a monster that is destroying my life. Yes she is the one that wants D but she is not a bad person, she just wants something diferent. Some of her family even thinks the same of her.

It took a while, but I got to the point that it didn't matter what anyone else says. All that matters is what I know to be true.

Still working on the checking account thing but haven'yt gotten close to the insurance and auto stuff yet. All in my name also

WIWH

What do you all think about msjones turning her husband in for driving without a license? We all know he’s probably still drinking and driving and putting people’s lives at stake. Does msjones have a moral obligation to society to turn him in? Or is her obligation to him stronger?

1. He is a non-reformed alcoholic
2. He is a criminal and still doing the criminal acts
3. He does not have a job
4. He cannot have anything in his name
5. He does not take responsibility
6. He is using up the rest of your savings on a job he cannot do because of the DUI's!

How many more years will you put up with this? Take the cars away telling him you hate to see him commit criminal acts by driving illegally and see what happens to your marriage. Something will change! Change can lead to marital health!

<small>[ April 10, 2004, 06:47 AM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

Another thing, sometimes an alcoholic does not want a regular 9-5 job. They would rather be a Realtor where if they wake up with a hangover, they do not have to go to work or work under a boss (authority).

Have you thought of why he wants to go for this particular job?

Honestly, I'm beyond the point of focusing on his needs. I have to focus on my needs and the needs of my children and the demands of my new business.

I've already announced to his family that his truck was for sale. I've also made this announcement to others. It's a good idea for me to share my intentions with others to help me be accountable, just in case I have a lapse of emotional judgement.

Too many people know that he's a drunk (although he hasn't taken a drink for 6 months), refuses to seek treatment, or get a job. I've also hired a full-time nanny to help with the kids and the house, since I'm the sole breadwinner and need to focus on my business.

I'm having a very positive day today. I'm reviewing my business plan, putting the finishing touches on my marketing materials and focusing on my list of qualified prospects. My plan is to totally immerse myself in my children, my business and my healing process.

When my accounts receivable start to kick-in, I plan on going back to my Psychotherapist. I have to do everything in my power to make sure that I deal with whatever issues have made me stay with such a mate.

Thanks to all for your support.

I think you are on the right path! Keep on going! In that direction.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm having a very positive day today. I'm reviewing my business plan, putting the finishing touches on my marketing materials and focusing on my list of qualified prospects. My plan is to totally immerse myself in my children, my business and my healing process.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with Baba. You are on a great path for yourself and your kids.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's a good idea for me to share my intentions with others to help me be accountable </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now you have shared your intentions and have all MB'rs to hold you accoutable for totally immersing yourself in your children, your business and your healing process.

Best to you
WIWH

Last night we had a huge fight...again. He's threatned to take our son away if I go thru with the divorce.

I must be honest here: my parents went thru a VERY bitter divorce. As a child, I was deeply wounded by the extreme nature of their conflict. I don't want my kids to go thru the same thing.

Now, before anyone else says it, I'll say it: "I shouldn't let what happened in the past dictate my current situation." I realize that many spouses use the kids as a pawn, to try and get the other spouse to reconsider divorce. In most cases, it backfires; as the threatening spouse finds it unbareable to exist in a loveless marriage.

Thins are going to get real ugly, real soon. His threats (idle or not) simply solidify my disdain for remaining in this marriage. I have to believe that he's speaking from a place of pain and anger. I honestly don't believe he's sincere about thinking our son would be better off with his parents (who, by the way, have deep pockets and have expressed an "interest" in raising our son).

At this point, I feel like I need to be focused on increasing my cash flow--quickly--to have a good attorney on retainer. I must also draw from inner strength to supress the bad memories of my childhood.