Eighteen years ago, we got married. We were both students and had a beautiful eight month old. My husband said he loved me, but I know that I married out of fear ... fear of raising a kid alone. I was going to break up with him before I learned that I was pregnant. During the first few years, he cheated 2 times and said that he never would again, but he made me feel that I was to blame for what he did. For years, we were up and down, and he constantly told me that he loved me. I never felt loved by him and I knew that I didn't love him. Still that fear of single parenting and thoughts of what others would say paralyzed me to stay in the marriage. I constantly expressed my need to feel loved. I told him that I was lonely, but he never really listened ... until recently when I told him that I want a divorce. Now he is everything I could have ever wanted in a husband, but I just don't love him. Several years ago, I met someone who became a very dear friend. Over time, I became attracted to him, and today we are in love. I have never felt this kind of love. Our relationship is not sexual; we are simply best friends in love. Our love banks are completely full. He wants to marry me, but he understands my situation and is patiently waiting for my decision with my spouse and family. Although, I am completely in love with my best friend, I feel guilty about getting a divorce because my husband and I now have three children. For the first time in my life, I am in love. Should I jump at this opportunity to love and be loved or should I stay for the kids sake?

Go for it. It sounds like you waited a long time to have such a relationship. in my opinion, sounds like too little too late from H. If he is anything like mine, he'll say anything to avoid a monetary crisis that divorce would bring. i can't be sure, but sounds like your kid is older, too. divorce is never easy, and i would never recommend it as a first option, but at this age, it's time to live a little.

You don't love him because you are having an affair. What you are feeling is infatuation. Love is an act. So the question is, Should you leave your H and break up your family for a fling?

Hmm, shall I use my more feeling empathetic talents, or shall I let you have it?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Emptybox:
<strong> Eighteen years ago, we got married. We were both students and had a beautiful eight month old.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmm, so you got pregnant, had the child then married the father? Is this true?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> My husband said he loved me, but I know that I married out of fear ... fear of raising a kid alone. I was going to break up with him before I learned that I was pregnant.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you didn't love this guy, wanted to leave him, and then found out you were carrying his child, so you decided to say.

I imagine you were feeling confused, scared, overwealmed by it all huh?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
During the first few years, he cheated 2 times and said that he never would again, but he made me feel that I was to blame for what he did. For years, we were up and down, and he constantly told me that he loved me. I never felt loved by him and I knew that I didn't love him.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, he cheated, yep that's bad, it probably made you feel awful. Yes cheating is all about him and what he wants and what his problems are.

However, your feelings are all about you. Do you think that not feeling loved by him is at any way related to you knowing/feeling that you didn't love him? Is it possible that he really does love you, but you knowing that you don't love him, don't allow you to feel loved by him.

Sure, he may not love you the way you desire to be loved, but that in no way takes away from whether he loves you or not.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
Still that fear of single parenting and thoughts of what others would say paralyzed me to stay in the marriage. I constantly expressed my need to feel loved. I told him that I was lonely, but he never really listened ... until recently when I told him that I want a divorce. Now he is everything I could have ever wanted in a husband, but I just don't love him.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, he gets the message now. It took a drastic measure but he gets the message. You have a choice here, you can be happy that he gets it, and be patient and see where this take you both, or you can bail.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
Several years ago, I met someone who became a very dear friend. Over time, I became attracted to him, and today we are in love. I have never felt this kind of love. Our relationship is not sexual; we are simply best friends in love. Our love banks are completely full. He wants to marry me, but he understands my situation and is patiently waiting for my decision with my spouse and family. Although, I am completely in love with my best friend, I feel guilty about getting a divorce because my husband and I now have three children.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sure you feel guilty, you promised to love your husband, perhaps put him before no other, perhaps except for God, and now you are breaking that promise. What you are feeling is normal.

You are torn.

From my view, you are also being a bit selfish. You may tell yourself that you deserve to feel loved, yet you admit that you don't love your husband.

I do believe they are both related.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
For the first time in my life, I am in love. Should I jump at this opportunity to love and be loved or should I stay for the kids sake? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you leave, don't further break his heart by trying to take the kids with you.

That's right. You've not been radically honest with him about not loving him, yet you criticize how he loved you, and then you have an emotional affair with another man.

If you choose to stay, then first learn how your husband shows you he loves you. Even if it is not the way you want to be shown love, learn how he is doing it. Start from there, and be honest about the things he does that makes you feel good, and be honest about the things he does that makes you feel bad.

There are questionaires on the main site about emotional needs (the things that make you feel good) and love busters (the things that make you feel bad)

If you choose to leave, then don't rip his kids away from him too.

I really think that should be part of the no-fault divorce law. Fine, you want to divorce your spouse, you cite irreconcilable differences, but he is not abusive, addicted, or incarcerated. Fine, you can leave the marriage, but you have to give up your children.

I know you are hurting, and if you choose to leave, he too will be hurting.

So I encourage you to take your time, and find the good in him, not the bad. Capitalize on the fact that his mind is open, he is listening, and trying to win your heart.

Sit down with him and do the questionaires with him since it seems he is open to learning and perhaps some change.

I'll bet you both see ways you can better meet each others needs and stop the love busters.

I wish you well, you seem far more open to this than my W who left 6 months ago and has filed for D, told me things very similar to what you say, etc.

You know how I feel? Betrayed! She wasn't honest enough to say those things and now she tells me I should be happy seeing my daughter 2 days out of every 14.

Riiiiiight.

Tony

IMHO, you cannot possibly assess your actual or potential feelings for your husband until you terminate the other relationship.

So to me, this discussion is useless. I have come to think that all 'one man vs. the other' ponderings are exactly that: worthless.

Instead, I believe you should focus on learning about your own values and beliefs as regards the institution of marriage, and what you are willing to do for your child, and why.

I've been where you are, and worse, btw.

Do you know the success rate of relationships begun while one partner was married to someone else? They are abyssmal.

Your current "lust relationship" has such a slim likelihood of lasting that you would be better off to spend your emotional energy working on your marriage.

Now, are you stong enough to be a Marriage Builder?

I am not having an affair, am I? I am in love but there is no sex, kissing, or anything else. I told my husband while were dating that I did not love him and I have told him throughtout the years ... I told him because I wanted to learn to love him, but he didn't want to kiss me or dance with me or do anything romantic which would have probably helped our marriage. He didn't have a relationship with the kids until about a month ago. Why shouldn't I take the kids?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Emptybox:
<strong> I am not having an affair, am I?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, you are having an Emotional Affair.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I am in love but there is no sex, kissing, or anything else. I told my husband while were dating that I did not love him and I have told him throughtout the years ... I told him because I wanted to learn to love him, but he didn't want to kiss me or dance with me or do anything romantic which would have probably helped our marriage. He didn't have a relationship with the kids until about a month ago. Why shouldn't I take the kids? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why should you break up the kids home?

Was your husband like this when you married him? You even had the chance to see how he was around children since you too had a child before you married.

I want to be empathetic here, but right now, I'm only feeling empathy for your husband. You made a decision as an adult to be the wife of your husband. So now you are looking to justify your "relationship" with this other man.

I feel for your husband, that you told him you didn't love him, but you married him anyway. Didn't you know he loved you?

Why shouldn't you take the kids? Because you are contemplating leaving for your own selfish reasons.

Tell me this, why should your husband have to lose daily contact with both you and the children just because you are unhappy?

Tonight, I'm an angry BS (Betrayed Spouse) Emptybox, I really do feel like I'm talking to my wife here.

Everything I've read here from you is about how you are unhappy.

You know what, marriage is about putting another person before yourself, so isn't parenting. If you are not willing to do that, then do as I suggest and leave alone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I want to close with thanks for coming back, after the 2x4's you've been hit with here, you do show some real character to return.

I do hope and pray that you will return again, that you will give some thoughtful consideration or soul searching to the things we are writing here. Ponder the notion that you don't feel loved by your husband because you don't love him. That's been said in many different ways here.

Also, I'm sure you husband has his faults too, heck if he is really comitted to this like you alluded to, get him on board here. I'm sure there are some folks with 2x4's that can bop him in the head if he too needs it.

I too need a good 2x4 upside the head, daily, LOL
Tony

Fear is the mindkiller...

I was just reading up on fear. I, like many, have determined that fear is the only problem we really face in life. Fear invokes the "fight or flight" response. Powerful chemicals are released and not much thinking is done. This causes us to do some really stupid things when we are afraid. Character, the one thing a person has to combat fear. Character makes us choose the right course of action when confronted by fear. Character is built up over a long time as we acquire wisdom.

Supposedly, you made a mistake years ago and married this man out of fear. That was after the first child and now you have three? Are they mistakes too?

People often re-write history when they are having an affair and you are having an affair.

The absolute best thing for you to do would be to get to counseling with your husband who quite obviously wants to do the right thing. Unlike this "friend" of yours, you and your husband have a shared history that will evaporate should you depart.

Divorce causes more problems than it is worth. Remember that.

You made a mistake out of fear before and look where it got you. Now you're ready to do it again while under the influence of the "fog" of an affair?

Shaking my head.

Have character! Do the right thing! Make the right choice. Your heart will follow.

Don't get it backwards and "follow your heart" and be with this "friend". A real friend, a real man, would NEVER mess with another man's wife.

He has never expressed an interest in keeping the kids. I really don't think he wants to.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Emptybox:
<strong> He has never expressed an interest in keeping the kids. I really don't think he wants to. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Using the same logic then, your husband has not expressed an interest in divorce, has he?

If not, then why are you considering giving him one?

This is the logic you are using about the kids, right.

Well, you are probably gone anyway.

Tony

You sound very much like my wife. She left to be with OM almost 9 months ago. We had many talks about love in the 17 years we were married. She would say she loved me and I'd ask are you sure. The answer was always yes. I am in the Air Force and had to go to Korea for 3 months. The last card I got from her and my kids was a teddy bear card. My daughters each wrote, love you dad, from your bestest daughter. Wife wrote, love W, your best wife. When I came back from Korea, I found out she was having an affair during the time I was over there. She told me she wanted a divorce and that she hadn't loved me for years. Now she either lied to me for 17 years or she rewrote our marriage. Its kinda weird, a year before we were looking at new cars and she was saying how it'd be nice for me to get this nice sports car and now she just wants me to just get "over it". Another thing, she moved out and left me with almost all the bills and left her 2 daughters that had always been her life. She sees them maybe a couple times a week. She chose seeing OM to her own D on Easter Sunday. I don't know if this is the road you are headed down, but I'm sure it would be an easier road than to try and actually work on your marriage... Do what you want, but be prepared for the outcome. It may not be what you want in the end. I don't know what my W will do, she still wants a divorce, and I'm afraid that's where all this will lead, but I know she'll regret it later in life. But, it is 'her' life....

Emptybox,

First let's address the affair. Have you told your H that you love another man? Have you proudly explained to your parents and your inlaws that you love another man and have been in contact with him for two years? Have you withheld information from your H? Lied to him about what you are doing, and who you are seeing? Is the man your best friend?

THen you are having an affair and it is worse than if you just went out and had sex with someone, because you have failed to be your H's best friend.

You then talk about how unromantic your H is, but you also say you have told him over the years that you don't love him. Let me think a minute, hearing you are NOT loved is NOT a surefire way to get someone to be romantic. Even my limited male brain knows that much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Finally, you are confusing something very important. You promised to LOVE your H, not feel in love for him. Do you know why? Love is a verb, it is something you do and you have NOT done that. What you have with your OM are "feelings" and while it may seem like love to you, it is NOT love. They are just feelings they are NOT actions.

You would do well to reflect on this and consider how much your H has done to support you, what you have promised,and how little you have helped him based on your constant rejection of him as a man worthy of love.

I have no doubt he loves you. I have no doubt he is not perfect. I have no doubt he can try to be a better H, but I also have no doubt you have been sabatoging this marriage.

The odds of a marriage to OM working out are about 3%. Not good. It will hurt your children, and frankly I don't believe for one moment that your H doesn't care about the kids. He may think as most males are taught that in a divorce he has no chance to get custody, but he does and I hope that some lawyer convinces him to fight for the kids.

Emptybox, it is time you grew up and learned what marriage and love is all about. This site is a good place, please do some reading of the articles, or at least send your H here. We can help either of you, it is just a matter of who really wants help and who really wants to be happy.

YOu and your H can be both. Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks to all of you for your comments and thoughts on my situation. I will consider your hurts, painful experiences, and bitterness as I make decisions about my future. I will also make every effort to "grow up" and be completely honest with my spouse just as all of you have done. May the grace of God be with each of us.

It seems you just came here looking for affirmation and you didn't find it.
Look on the concepts area of the site to read up on Emotional Affairs.
Your husband is meeting many of your needs, and your "friend" is only meeting a few. What will happen when your husband is no longer available to meet the needs he currently provides.

You owe it to your husband and your children to understand why you are where you are in life.

Divorce sucks, it's expensive, and it can possibly be the worst thing to happen in a child's life. Consider everyone involved in your decision.

Hey Just Learning,

You are sooooo right about the "sabotaging" part. That's what they do to justify their affairs. They want to look back and say that since your were such a bad person and since things didn't work out that they are justified in cheating on you. They do their best to provoke you to give them the response they want so that they can point the finger at you.

It has taken me a long time to look back on my WS XW's actions. By the time I knew something was wrong with my marriage, she was in full sabotage mode. Little to no chance of saving my marriage....

I suspect that is what Emptybox is doing, whether she is cognizant of it or will admit to it is another question.

<small>[ April 13, 2004, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: father of 1, husband of 0 ]</small>

Man, you guys ran her out of here on a rail...I understand her feelings are real, but I am with Father of 1, Husband of 0...I went through the same thing. By the time I realized things were wrong, my ex wife had sabotaged the marriage so bad, there was no hope for me. I have no sympathy for you emptybox. My ex wife now regrets everything a year later and would come crawling back if I were to ask her to, but I have moved way past her and her silly childish games. Someone who does something so decieving can never be trusted in my book of ethics and morals.

Just wanted to bump to the top...I think this thread will be of great help for some of you men dealing with a cheating spouse...PLEASE READ!!

Hey Lucky,

I don't think anyone here really wanted to run Emptybox out of here on a rail, although the responses did have that effect.

The fact is that infidelity involves an awful lot of deception, and that includes the self deception that Dr. Harley describes as the fog. Many of the folks who post here are familiar with the patterns of deception, betrayers all seem to read from the same playbook.

There comes a point when even for the betrayer, there occurs a bankruptcy of alibi. In this forum, we have seen these folks start a thread and when they see responses other than what they were hoping for, they just leave. The sad part is that there are other forums where they could get the help they really need. I think Empty Box wanted help, but she wanted it on her own terms. She wanted people to tell her what she is doing is all right. And that is just a waste of everyone's time.

The wonderful thing about the anonymity of these forums is that it allows for a degree of honesty and insight that you might not get anywhere else, but that you might desparately need. My hat is off to everyone here who "told it like it is."

I don't think anyone here really wanted to run Emptybox out of here on a rail, although the responses did have that effect.
I don't think it was any of the responses.
Sometimes, newbies will come here and do a "hit & run" post.
There are quite a few one time posters, who find the site, read one or two things, post and just never come back.

<small>[ April 16, 2004, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>