My WW and I are I guess in a cool down period. I do my best to speak with her every other day.
I know it is bad to discuss the M but I am trying to find out what her true intentions are.
I ask if she plans to go on with her lover whom she will not be able to see for at least a year? All of her answers are I don't know. She does't know if she wants a divorce, she is afraid to come back home and does't want to work on the M. She says she is not sure if she could ever love me as a husband again. She is unwilling to do anything at this point. Of course she has re-written the history of things and everything that has happend is my fault. She also presumes that every converstation I try to have with her is digging for information when I am justtrying to make converstation. Does guilt or shame play a role in this? Any thoughts?

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: Pheonix_66 ]</small>

Hi Phoenix66--

That sounds so familiar to me.
I don't know if it's guilt or shame, but seems to go with the territory of warward spouses in my opinion.
I swear, there are roles for their behavior.

My XH had the same answers. But, for me, I had to do all I could, to know that I tried.

His classic line was, "I feel like I have crossed a bridge and I can't come back". Whatever that means.
He knew, I would have given him every chance he needed to return.

He told me, the love he felt was no longer the same, I'm guessing more of a brotherly love kind of love.
He wouldn't give me a straight answer on divorce. When he finally did, his reply was: "that is the path I'm headed".
I always wondered, Why would he just not come out and say, yes, I want a divorce.
I wouldn't file until he told me that was what he wanted.
I took his reply as, yes, divorce.

I don't know if wayward spouses are that torn or not.
The pain they cause certainly doesn't feel torn to us, but, on the other hand, they can't give answers.

I'm not sure if my response has answered your question, but you question was familiar to me.

I hope for you, she turns around.

K.

p...I know it is bad to discuss the M but I am trying to find out what her true intentions are.


Any thoughts?


sufdb...That pretty much says it all I guess. You just won't let her be, because YOU won't respect her. Why is your need to find out her "true" intentions give you the right to violate her boundaries...when she wants to discuss the M she will...right? I wonder what else you do because YOU want to.

S I sense there is some angst in there about me.

sufdb -"You just won't let her be, because YOU won't respect her. "

How am I showing disrespect?

sufdb- Why is your need to find out her "true" intentions give you the right to violate her boundaries...when she wants to discuss the M she will...right? I wonder what else you do because YOU want to.

I didn't know having a conversation about my life and her connection to it was a violation of boundaries.

Please forgive my ignorance.

I will not address your last line as it only presumptuous and would be unproductive.

p...I sense there is some angst in there about me.

sufdb....Nope, don't know anything about you, and you asked for thoughts. From the little I read (and it is little, but your followup is consistent with what I "felt" from your first post)...you come across as impatient, and wanting what you want, and trying to justify it.

sufdb -"You just won't let her be, because YOU won't respect her. "

How am I showing disrespect?

sufdb...By not observing her boundaries, by trying to get her to do what you want...have relationship talks, you are not looking at her and trying to see what she wants without any regard to yourself....it is all about you. That is disrespectful (but not rude, if that is what you meant, disrespect comes in many forms).

sufdb- Why is your need to find out her "true" intentions give you the right to violate her boundaries...when she wants to discuss the M she will...right? I wonder what else you do because YOU want to.

p...I didn't know having a conversation about my life and her connection to it was a violation of boundaries.

sufdb...That's exactly my point. YOU don't see it, and are unwilling to accept someone else defining what you can do. This happens all the time, and is violated all the time.....what part of don't have any relationship talks do people not comprehend? Yet people push this boundary all the time, over and over and over....there justification is, well, gee I need to know....well, actually you don't. What you (et al) need to do, is respect boundaries...and if someone doesn't want to talk about something, then you zip your lip....or you leave the relationship (and that is the appropriate consequence visited on the one refusing to talk. Really quite simple actually.

p...Please forgive my ignorance.

sufdb...no problem. Not the easiest stuff to understand, especially for folks who habitually are focused on themselves and what they want.

p..I will not address your last line as it only presumptuous and would be unproductive.

sufdb...No problem, this is all for your benefit. Myself, I am at the 3 year mark in this disaster scenario that brings most of us here, and I pretty much have everything figured out that I need to... Do with my comments as you wish... good luck.

sufdb, Gee I wish I had your wisdom in all of this. YOU are such a good judge of character and reading between the lines. YOU are so wise in YOUR own eyes...

sufdb-you come across as impatient, and wanting what you want, and trying to justify it.

P-There are many issues involved including young children and exposure to criminal activity. There is no justification just a sense of what is the right thing to do.

Boundaries - First they must be established and communicated by the person who wants them. I do see your point about either don't talk or leave the relationship and I will respect that. That is fair however when we are emotionally torn by our situation and not yet adapted to the sitch it is hard at first.
Another boundary that should be respected is marriage but that never came through in your response. Frankly I have been doing well with little or no contact with her except for the kids. She had been calling me for a while for just silly things or making them up.


p...Please forgive my ignorance.

sufdb...no problem. Not the easiest stuff to understand, especially for folks who habitually are focused on themselves and what they want.

P-what you say here is so wise on your part because you know that I habitually focused on myself and care for no one else's feelings and desires. Perhaps I should just consider what she wants at all times.
I have a little trouble with a cheater getting all of what they want and I being taken and used a scapegoat for all that is wrong in their life. I did my best to give her the best that I could and be the best parent I could.

s-this is all for your benefit

P-I am unworthy but I will make accept it through your grace

s-Do with my comments as you wish.

P-I prayed over them to help me accept the wisdom in them

I can only address information that is presented, I did so, do with it as you will...if your response was sarcastic (seemed like in part it was) then you might want to consider how you talk/react to your wife if you can't even remain civil with a total stranger who simply answered the questions you asked....whether you like the responses or not (and if not, then ignore the parts you don't find helpful)....you asked, ponder that...again, good luck, it isn't easy, I know that.