Just a line from another post that might be interesting to discuss.

Is it really true that *happy people do not fall into affairs*. I mean, my ex slept around for most of our marriage (as I found out after the divorce) and it wasn't that he wasn't *happy*. Many of those years, "opportunities" presented themselves where he had one night stands. He travelled extensively, was away from home alot, and I would be home with the kids etc. So what's that all about?

Just wonderin......

"Happy" people do and can have affairs.
I do know my X became involved with his OW not because of inherrent marriage problems, but life's reality.

Perhaps happiness can be gauged by the intensity of the conflict cycle and disengagement therof.

In my case there was and still is much more conflict after d'day, resulting divorce and still to this day. Conflict does not equal happiness. Resolved conflict does spell onward movement and greater peace.


X felt he was entitled to some excitement which was offered to him and thrown at him (OW was his "dumb" 24 y.o. secretary) and he was CEO of company. He did not have to walk very far from the door to his office to get "stroked" as a man in authority! Everyone in his position did this, so why not him, was a response I got. False entitlement for a man that was happy with life and a long term marriage with all the responsibilities and tribulations of 4 children in their teens, preparing to go off into the world, but felt he could have more.

Question I ask is do those who have to live with the choices they made remain happy now they are no longer married to BS?

His anger at me for not being happy for him at this choice of his and the insanity that consumed this family was in part due to my response. He could not have it both ways....me being the public and respectable face of his happy family while he played 18 again (competing with older children as to who could "act out to" mommy more ). It was only when he refused to fulfill his financial obligations to this family that I served him with divorce papers.
Do people who are happy with their choices fight for the sake of keeping conflict alive? No.

I struggled for over 4 years to finish this legally. He fought everything not to be financially responsible (thanks to Canadian family law he could!) and continues now in his "happiness" , having married OW soon after divorce came through in a huge public display of vulgarity (ROTFLMAO somewhat) to continue to try to engage me in conflict through kids issues.
I firmly believe that X was happy married to me for the most part. It was however, not as exciting as a torrid affair which OW did not let die a natural death...fool married her.

Is he happy now?
I would guess not, he continues to try to conflcit with me by continuing to use the children in his emotional and financial games.

My reaction to this has changed so as not to play into his need for conflict with me which only serves to make him feel better about his life altering decisions. It is through conflict with me that he validates not only his choices, but also tries to keep me connected to him and more important keeps his present relationship ongoing.... A fine balance in keeping him responsible to the legal agreement in place re kids and not have him bring chaos into their lives by controlling who they are and what they do,as well as rewarding them for conflicting with me and any sibling of theirs who does not dismiss me from their life which feeds into his need to believe he was not happy before.

I have no interest in participating in conflicts with him which he tries to engage me in unless it is to uphold our financial agreement re kids or when he and OW brings chaos and mayhem into a childs life, which I am left to clean up.
Once all my children are independent with life skills to implement this and deal with the ensuing chaos and destruction to their own lives, and I am not left to mop up the mess, then NOTHING will bring me to enage in any conflict or anything else for that matter, with X.

Most important, I am happy to be me and have no regrets about choices I have made.The truth of living well and enjoyng life is the best revenge. a win win sitution for me!(which evidently infuriates X!)

I second your thoughts.

And sitch is almost exactly mine as well. My xh is CFO of a co and he eloped with his very preggers OW who is 25.

The part about his happiness and feeling that he is entitled to it was exactly the same as with me.

And I too do not believe my x is happy as there's much suspicion on the actions of his new W as to any involvements with me...I was not the fat, ugly, stupid wife who didn't understand him as he probably told her I was...

And my x acts out and gets angry and does awful stuff because I suspect he's agnry with himself. That's what my family and close friends believe.

That their new M doesn't bring them the "high" they were looking for and thus they have to seek confrontations or new A partners so they can recapture the "high" that affairs bring.

Was my xh happy? Before the A's began, sure we were. We were happy physically and had a good relationship then. Emphasis on THEN. It all blew up and came apart when I wouldn't stand back and let him cheat and then he went downhill almost immediately and morphed into this person today that I really almost don't know at all now.

And my vote is that happy people cheat. Depends on how happy the person wants to be.

One thing I know for sure..the person doing the cheating if they're happy to begin with, won't stop if they even "temporarily" end up marrying the affair partner just to appease the affair partner...or if in my x's case to legimize a birth.

"Happy" people do and can have affairs.
I do know my X became involved with his OW not because of inherrent marriage problems, but life's reality.
...
X felt he was entitled to some excitement which was offered to him and thrown at him (OW was his "dumb" 24 y.o. secretary) and he was CEO of company.
Many people have these opportunities but don't succumb.
"Happy" is not on or off. It is a sliding scale. Sometime we are kind of happy, sometime not so happy.
Perhaps he wasn't getting the "excitement" at home (not commenting on you in any way) that he felt deserved or was owed. Could you say he was 100% happy with everything in his life at the time?
Also, happiness is not the same as satisfied.

<small>[ April 19, 2004, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Maybe the word is not “happy” but “in love.” I do believe Dr. Harley’s theory that people who are in love do not have affairs. You can be unhappy and in love (for short times only), or you can be happy and in love. You can be unhappy and not in love, or you can be happy and not in love.

So plenty of happy people have affairs. But, I’ll bet 99% of them weren’t in love with their spouses. And when the chemical rush of infatuation took over, well, some succumbed to temptation.

Just for the record, in general, I think most people who have affairs are not only not in love with their spouses, but unhappy as well. The out-of-love-and-unhappy makes an EA or PA doubly attractive.

Peachy, your husband is a sociopath. He belongs to a very small minority of mankind luckily! and is not a good sampling for generalizing purposes.

I wonder if the WSs who are here are representative of WSs in general. Most here seem to have been out of love and unhappy. And naturally, they are unhappy with their choice to have an affair or they wouldn’t be here. Hmm.

I would tend to agree with Chris. For a long time I wasn't sure if I was in love with my wife, but I did love and care about her deeply. We spent most of our lives dedicated to raising our children, which I felt we both put our relationship on the back-burner. She had wanted to get married for years, but I was against it since I wasn't sure I wanted to remain with her. I wasn't happy or satisfied in the relationship, but I was content. There were always accusations and a little abuse on her part after my first child was born, and I was completely faithful. There was a time that we split up that I did take up a girlfriend while she was pregnant with my first child, which I can understand her feeligs after living together.

When we finally married, she became a totally different person and I was happy and satisfied. We were still spending all our time on the children (one with special needs), and we both neglected our relationship. I became more and more unhappy, because I didn't have that love or companionship in my life. She was doing a lot of volunteer things, and she was sleeping with my special needs daughter and our relationship suffered drastically. I approached her on three occassions regarding my unhappiness, and she would change for a few months. Things would always go back to being the same after those months. I would come home from work around 6, eat dinner, bath my youngest, while she helped my oldest with homework. We would get them to bed, and she would field phone calls or do volunteer projects. She would retire to bed about 9pm, and I was up twiddling my thumbs. She was always too tired for intimacy. When my needs were tended to, I was very satisfied and happy and never looked at or was attracted to other women. When I was feeling neglected, I would look more at other women. I didn't chase or get involved with them, but I was attracted to them.

This is why I think that people that are happy and satisfied in their relationships (physically and emotionally) do not have affairs. Why would you need an affair if your woman is taking care of your needs? This is the woman/man that you have a life with and are comfortable with.

In my first marriage I was a WS and it wasn't as much as being unhappy as it was being not in love. In my second marriage I could not even imagine having an affair because I'm so in love with my husband. I totally believe that it has more to do with love then being unhappy.

I'm not sure that everyone means the same thing when they say they are "unhappy" in their marriage. Most men mean unfulfilled, not sexually exciting or frustrated. For the most part, people don't have affairs if they are fulfilled in their marriage. When most people have affairs, they have found something they had been missing (and needing) in their affair partner that was not being given to them at home. The ones that do cheat when they aren't truly needing anyting that isn't already supplied, have personal issues and would cheat on anyone.

TFS

Not to rip on men...but there is also this "conquest thing" that happens to some as it would seem.

And yea, in my case it wasn't about a bad sex life (the opposite) or his not finding me attractive or anything like that. His business had suddenly gotten several huge lawsuits against it and he was pressured and wouldn't talk or do anything. He got angry, became a clam and shut up. Then he started going out all the time and not coming home at all. Anger soon followed. Because our son was much smaller, I only was able to go out with him if we'd have a babysitter or a relative to watch him.

It was a matter of stress that broke his spirit and began the downward spiral that he's still stuck in now. It was the "high" of the affairs he got during all this legal stuff with his business that eventually brought the man I once knew to his knees and it sickens me to see how he deliberately shut out everybody he knew and cared for and morphed into the guy he is today.

Trust me, I tried everything. He REFUSED to go to counseling or talk to anybody at all.

Sometimes it's not a matter of being "in love" or "happy". It's stress and how you handle it and how you either let it get to you or you find a way to positively deal with it. It was an addiction and distraction for my x. He also started gambling alot during that time and it was not uncommon for me to see him slap down 5k a night at a blackjack table which made me nauseous when we were on our last vacation together in the carribbean.

Happy people do have affairs. Selfish people have affairs. And angry and stressed out people get addicted to the rush that a n affair brings.

I believe on some level it's a hormonal response to an adrenaline rush that's the basis of affairs. That thing that makes you believe you've "clicked" with somebody. The Je Ne Sais Quoi thing.

I believe firmly that my xh might have had some sort of mental breakdown that literally warped his brain. Nobody does this kinda stuff rationally. NOt at all. When anybody who knew the both of us before this happened finds out where he and I are today, they are shocked and in awe. They can't believe it. People's mouths drop. Usually I get the "but why?..." comment. My x used to have it all. A close family. A good wife and mother, a good relationship, respect from those around him, be a good dad and literally in a matter of two months I saw it drop away after a series of million dollar lawsuits.

Saddest part is the lawsuits went away about six months ago. Today I got a call from him and he sounds much different. Sad and humble to me. Usually arrogant and rude, not today. It's like he wanted this fantasy while the stress was going on and when the stress lifted, he found the rest of his life around him, the reality it had become, all in ruin.

That's what happens when the fog begins to lift.

To add to the "adrenaline rush"/addiction theory...

Last week I had a patient who had recently been stabbed while walking out of a restaurant.

The assailant jumped onto him and all my patient could do was fight the guy off of him. The man was so worked up during the fight that it was over an hour later he realized when he saw the massive amounts of blood that he'd been stabbed.

Theory being that the adrenaline rush keeps you FROM feeling any of the pain. And for those who don't deal with stress well or are poor in communication, it may make them prone to become affair addicts. It's basically a distraction from reality. And sometimes the marriage is ok and the stress is not even related to the marriage.

All interesting and vaild points.

The crux is that given 2 people with the same life circumstances, "happiness" and/or "in love" feeling, one may still need to push life to the limit for themselves and go ahead and have an affair due to internal need outside any relationship equation, without thinking about the impact of this choice and resulting consequences, while the other person might simply never consider this at all. Not part of their internal makeup. A feeling of being able to conquer the world as well as an entitlement belief that all is theirs for the taking, in no way diminishes the happy or in love feeling for some personalities.

In answer to Chris, a consuming and very cliched "mid life crisis" with all the bells and whistles and the fear of death before experiencing EVERYTHING also played a part in this resulting divorce mess, so I agree he was not happy with everything in his life at that time, but nothing that I could do in the marriage to fulfill his biggest needs which were I believe external to our relationship.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> nothing that I could do in the marriage to fulfill his biggest needs </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Isn't it sad how we, the ones devoted to marriage, twist ourselves into pretzels trying to do just that -- fulfill their needs.

Great posts -- I have learned yet again so very much! Thanks!

I absolutely agree with TheFeminineSide. Some people are going to cheat regardless. This is due to their own personal issues.

When typical people are fulfilled, I don't think that they have the desire to go outside the marriage if they have everything within the marriage. This is why I am so impressed with the Harley methods of strengthening relationships. I think that can make a marriage stronger. I wish that my X would have participated with me in the Harley's methods, because I feel the outcome would have been totally different.

I have to disagree a little with justpeachy. I was a little like your husband to where I would clam up and not talk about my stress of worklife. She would take it personally, because she thought that I was upset with her. Earlier in our lives, we couldn't go out together and one would stay home with the children. This drastically affects a relationship.

Your husband was probably happy, because he could do what he wanted to do. The stress caused him to act irrationally in life. I believe the affairs happened because of unfullfillment in the relationship somewhere. He probably is one of those persons that wants his cake and eat it too. I can't speak for your husband, but a lot of men would not jeopardize their respect for their wives when they are fulfilled. A sexy 23 y/o is nice, but a fulfilled man will say thanks but no thanks. There are men out there that like "strange" or something different. Your husband could be one of them. Everyone is different and like different things and handles things in different ways. This isn't necessarily a mental lapse, but some people have different beliefs than others.

Speaking for myself, the time when I was fulfilled by my wife other women didn't phase me. My friend, who is a bachelor, couldn't understand this. I probably couldn't understand it either. I just know that sexual fulfillment is just temporary, because before I met my wife that is how my life was with many women. When you truly love someone, that sexual fulfillment is much deeper, better, and lasting. Sure it can be get boring if you don't add some spice, but I would take quality over quantity any day of the week.

LG,

Love this comment by you!

"A sexy 23 y/o is nice, but a fulfilled man will say thanks but no thanks."

Oh so true for many men because a man who truly feels strongly for a woman wouldn't want to take the chance of hurting her. They want to protect her. Things change though when a man is not fulfilled....

TFS

I don't think it has as much to do with "happy" or "in love" as it does integrity.

"Happy" and "In Love" are feelings; feelings can always swayyou in one direction or another, as far as you attitude and desire for something goes. However, integrity is what keeps you from acting on those feelings, at least in my opinion.

There were many times during my 13 year marriage that I wasn't happy or didn't feel in love. But my decision to stay true to my vows, come h*ll or high water, had to do with my integrity (and I'm not trying to beep my own horn here). I can say, with 100% certainty, that "I will NEVER cheat on my spouse." I just know that about myself.

I can say that as certainly as I can say "I will NEVER have sex with a goat." BOTH of those situations are abhorrant to me and I will NEVER choose to do either, regardless of how unhappy, how unloved or how drunk I am! (PS I don't drink...just an example.)

The choice to cheat is based on a decision. Decisions are based on who you are, inside and out, not by feelings that come and go. If you are a person who lets his/her feelings rule you, you will always be open to doing all sorts of things that are wrong. Feelings are like the wind; they come and go.

A person with integrity is the same, inside and out, day after day. You can count on them to be true to who they are, regardless of which way the wind blows.

Just my 2 cents worth.

PS I also wanted to say....

People do not "fall" into affairs. They choose them.

There is a big difference.

Ms. O,
You have expressed so clearly what I have been trying to communicate.

After all, as the song goes, "what does love have to do with it?".

Ms.O,

Boy did you hit that one on the head. Exactly how I feel also. Couldln't have said it better.

That's a keeper Ms.O! Without a doubt I can honestly say that my ex doesn't know what the word *integrity* means!