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#769597 04/21/04 05:59 AM
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Irreconcilable Differences:
This is just stupid. It's a cop-out designed for people who would rather break their loving spouse to pieces instead of put forth some effort in a marriage.
I don't believe in divorcing for this reason. Anything can be worked out, or worked around, or fixed with the proper ammount of resloute, or perseverance.
This excuse for divorce is cruel and unusual. Why was this ever accepted into law as reasonable grounds for divorce?

Incompatibility:
Here's another stupid reason for divorce.
The idea that a marriage should be dissolved because one person can't cope with, or grow accustomed to, certain small behaviours or nuances of thier spouse... I hate it. I hate it like I hate hell.
The really troubling thing about this excuse is how many people claim this in regards to sexual issues.
He wants it too much... she doesn't want it enough... then, bam! Divorce.
Hell... I've got a much higher libido than my wife does. I'm not about to haul off and go through a divorce because of it.
I'd rather get used to the idea, and try to work on other things.
But, 'Incompatibility' goes so much further, and gets even more rediculous.
I'm not gonna go into it, because it would take too long. I'm tired.

Anyways... just had to vent a little.
I'm still trying to work things out. I won't be signing any divorce papers so long as she's being beligerant about everything.
All I asked for was another chance. One minute, she's gonna let me try, the next... she's not. Both of us are so back-and-forth on things. It's frustrating. This whole thing is so unstable, and fragile. I wish there was an easy way to get through this. Maybe there is. Maybe I've already got the answer in front of me, and I just need to find it, and use it.

#769598 04/21/04 07:48 AM
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Jarod - I strongly agree with you. Here's another one that my W used as an excuse to file for D - "Irretrievably broken". How can a marriage be "irretrievably broken" when no legitimate effort was made to work on the issues in the first place? At least she was honest enough and had the character to state that I was not guilty of "marital misconduct". When I submitted my discovery papers I was ask the same thing regarding her. I checked "yes" because I feel that abandonment is very much "marital misconduct".

No Fault Divorce is a scourge to our nation and families. Divorces are way too easy to file for and get approved. The lawyers reap all the benefits and the families and taxpayers shoulder the burden.

#769599 04/22/04 12:45 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hurting Promise Keeper:
<strong> Jarod - I strongly agree with you. Here's another one that my W used as an excuse to file for D - "Irretrievably broken". How can a marriage be "irretrievably broken" when no legitimate effort was made to work on the issues in the first place? At least she was honest enough and had the character to state that I was not guilty of "marital misconduct". When I submitted my discovery papers I was ask the same thing regarding her. I checked "yes" because I feel that abandonment is very much "marital misconduct".

No Fault Divorce is a scourge to our nation and families. Divorces are way too easy to file for and get approved. The lawyers reap all the benefits and the families and taxpayers shoulder the burden. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll tell you what.... if I have anything to say about it... this will not happen to my family.
I'm fighting like hell to keep this from falling completely apart. As the situation continues... I will only fight harder.

#769600 04/21/04 01:46 PM
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How can a marriage be "irretrievably broken" when no legitimate effort was made to work on the issues in the first place?

sufdb....And who decides that?

I realize this is a venting thread, but what is the alternative, hold someone in a marriage by force? The labels make no difference, if a person no longer chooses to live in a marital relationship, they must be free to leave...otherwise it is just a prison and no one wants that.... What is it with the mindset that we think we have a right to own someone anyways?

#769601 04/21/04 01:50 PM
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Keep fighting, guy, and I'm behind you all the way. I fought the good fight for many months until I was left exhausted and broken. Then the grace of God fell on me and I faced some hard truths about myself and her. I reached a point where I had nowhere to look but up, and Jesus was gracious enough to lift me up. There are so many things out of our control and sphere of influence, and my pending D is one of them. The Lord spoke to me many months ago "Pursue the way of peace" and that is what I am doing.

If you are in a No Fault state, and most of them are now, you will need all the strength you can muster. The best attorney in the land can't save you from a D if she is dead set for it, but perhaps you can limit the financial raping and keep your respect and dignity. Hang in there, brother!

#769602 04/21/04 01:55 PM
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I'm not sure that I'm "qualified" to have anything of value to say here because I'm only about 10 feet down what I'm sure is going to be a very long road, but I am struck by your "fight-it" attitude. Yes, if anything is worth fighting for, it's a marriage. But I'm not so sure that the feelings and emotions that are typically associated with fighting (anger, resentment, frustration, win/lose) are exactly conducive to resolving anything. Granted, we're all different and that we all react differently to our unique circumstances. It's cliche' as heck to say but maybe you would consider "letting go and letting God"? That's not to say that you shouldn't be trying - but maybe a different approach than fighting might work better? (Just so you know, I'm aware of the context in which you've used the word "fighting".)

#769603 04/21/04 02:53 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hurting Promise Keeper:
<strong> Keep fighting, guy, and I'm behind you all the way. I fought the good fight for many months until I was left exhausted and broken. Then the grace of God fell on me and I faced some hard truths about myself and her. I reached a point where I had nowhere to look but up, and Jesus was gracious enough to lift me up. There are so many things out of our control and sphere of influence, and my pending D is one of them. The Lord spoke to me many months ago "Pursue the way of peace" and that is what I am doing.

If you are in a No Fault state, and most of them are now, you will need all the strength you can muster. The best attorney in the land can't save you from a D if she is dead set for it, but perhaps you can limit the financial raping and keep your respect and dignity. Hang in there, brother! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unfortunately, Nevada is a No Fault state... I f***ing hate this place. I hate what it does to people... what it's done to me, and my wife.

If divorce wasn't so f***ing easy to obtain, people would be more willing to work things out! I'm sick and tired of this. I will not be another statistic.
I don't plan on trapping my wife into this marriage... but, rather, I plan on showing her there is hope.
I'm not getting too many chances right now. And, the fact that she is obessive about our daughter to the point where she rarely lets the kid out of her sights (meaning, I don't get to ever have her for very long) just makes things worse.
I've had the little girl over here with me all of twice in the two months my wife and I have been apart. One time was for a measly two hours. I had to fight my wife tooth-and-nail yesterday to get her for 24 hours.
My situation seems really hopeless right now... but, I'm never giving up. I love them too damn much.

The only hope I still have in all of this is that my wife still believes I am a good and decent man, and she knows that I love her and the child.

<small>[ April 21, 2004, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Jarod_Wynde ]</small>

#769604 04/21/04 03:18 PM
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Well Missouri. is a no fault state also, I'm fighting the same bogus frases and terms you are. I agree with you that it is too easy to get Ds in the circumstances. It is a cop out for lazy people who cant keep their promises. We should all write to ur legislators and try to get it changed. I'm also fighting the I'll give you another chance "maybe" thing. Meaniwhile I have thirty days to get my own ducks in a row and file my own petition. It really sucks when your spouse wont even try. It makes it worse when they're mental.

#769605 04/21/04 03:27 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by medic22003:
<strong> Well Missouri. is a no fault state also, I'm fighting the same bogus frases and terms you are. I agree with you that it is too easy to get Ds in the circumstances. It is a cop out for lazy people who cant keep their promises. We should all write to ur legislators and try to get it changed. I'm also fighting the I'll give you another chance "maybe" thing. Meaniwhile I have thirty days to get my own ducks in a row and file my own petition. It really sucks when your spouse wont even try. It makes it worse when they're mental. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At the very least, it should be that any divorce proceeding (with the exception of proven physical or sexual abuse) should require 2 years of co-habitating and marriage counselling sessions twice a month. That's a whole lot better than the in-and-out bull****.

Yeah... sounds like you're in the exact same boat as me... only, my wife isn't filing for divorce. But, she is going back-and-forth on giving me another chance... and, she's not exactly all there, mentally.

Ugh... I was happy yesterday until she started with me about the baby. Now, I'm pissed all over again. Listening to Disturbed and Papa Roach is kinda helping. I really just want to start a fight in public with a complete stranger, and lose.

#769606 04/21/04 03:35 PM
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I would check on the child custody if I were you. Here, unless there has been something ordered by the court, one parent cannot legally keep the children from the other. She is only hurting herself in the long run if she continues that.

#769607 04/21/04 03:45 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by medic22003:
<strong> I would check on the child custody if I were you. Here, unless there has been something ordered by the court, one parent cannot legally keep the children from the other. She is only hurting herself in the long run if she continues that. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, I'm perfectly aware of my rights.
I reminded her of this. She immediately went paranoid thinking I was going to try and take the baby away forever.

#769608 04/21/04 05:21 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SNL:
What is it with the mindset that we think we have a right to own someone anyways?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would counter with the following question, SNL: What is it with the mindset that we think we have a right to walk away from a marriage without even trying to rebuild it?

<small>[ April 21, 2004, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

#769609 04/21/04 05:23 PM
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Dupe, sorry.

<small>[ April 21, 2004, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

#769610 04/21/04 05:29 PM
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what, is this not america? why would one person NOT have the right to end it for whatever reason? we should all stay in abusive, loveless marriages where we are cheated upon and ridiculed and abused, just so marriage does not end. my kids have suffered because i try to stay for them. iw ould never have tried all these years if I knew then what I know now. the only way you should rebuild is if both people mak an effort, not one...and I am not talking about talking like they are. acting like it.

#769611 04/21/04 06:41 PM
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Glenda taking away the no fault ruke would make it harder to get a divorce, it wouldnt prevent a divorce. People would just have to put forth an effort to fix the problem. Abuse is dangerous and does not apply to what we are talking about. Abuse would definately be grounds for divorce. Just getting tired of being married is not.

#769612 04/21/04 10:03 PM
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res...I would counter with the following question..

What is it with the mindset that we think we have a right to walk away from a marriage without even trying to rebuild it?

sufdb...The thread doesn't seem to be about encourageing a reluctant partner to reconsider. I commented re some strong rhetoric (albeit venting perhaps, but ya say it, and all responses are fair) suggesting one partner in a marriage should be able to essentially imprison another....that is not marriage, and I commented accordingly.

So what does one do jo, make someone sleep in your (the general your) bed, make someone meet your laundary list of needs, make someone endure your presence...how do we do that? Involuntary servitude has a name, it's called slavery, we pretty much don't think people should be compelled to give up their lives by law or any other coercive means.

As for your question, I personally don't think one should walk away from a marriage without informing their spouse as to why (unless said spouse is dangerous).... as for rebuilding, I guess that is really in the eye of the beholder isn't it, and no one else is entitled or capable of an opinion about someone elses life. But then again I guess we could argue the merits of a world where everyone else gets to decide who can leave a marriage and who can't...you wanna live in that world?

The problem is not the ease of divorce, the problem is the ease of marriage. If we as a society passed laws that gave one person the power to hold another bound to them against their will, just think about that jo, and what that would mean. Aside from the injustices that would occur, there would be less people marrying at all, why take such a risk?

It is unfortunate this poster is distressed, and probably being treated poorly by his wife, and scared to death for his kid, and his ability to father her....but the solution is not in giving "him" power to own his wife, or force her to interact with him, be it counselling or anything else. And frankly the tone of his vent is troublesome, and may very well be something he should consider in trying to understand why his w has marital issues. But whatever role he plays in the marital disharmony, even if he is without fault at all, makes no difference, you cannot own another human being.

btw, heretofore I don't recall you engaging much in inappropriate poster baiting. My name is sufdb, I would appreciate your adherence to TOS and address me thusly. I remind you annonymity is something gauranteed to all who choose to post here, and whoever I might be in real life, or in another user ID is my business, and my business only, please respect that.

#769613 04/21/04 10:14 PM
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medic...taking away the no fault rule would make it harder to get a divorce, it wouldnt prevent a divorce.

sufdb...True...and it would also increase domestic violence, there is no free ride...it would also probably contribute to less formal marriage, and more cohabitation, a dubious benefit. The thing is, no one makes someone leave a marraige, all no-fault does is place marital decisions where they belong, in the hands of those living the marriage...not big brother.

medic...People would just have to put forth an effort to fix the problem.

sufdb....Not at all, nothing prevents effort now. But it would send stress and resentment through the roof as the spouse unwilling to divorce uses the law to beat the other one into submission.

medic...Abuse is dangerous and does not apply to what we are talking about. Abuse would definately be grounds for divorce. Just getting tired of being married is not.

sufdb...And who decides this for another? No one has the right to accuse another of "just getting tired"....it is a personal choice.

But what we can do is make marriage much harder to enter, there are lots of things we should do...but even a simple one is to include a statuatory requirement that one cannot be granted a marriage license for um...say at least 1 year after a divorce decree. We can also do a much better job of requiring and enforceing child support payments, and fair custody arrangements. Such things may make one who is "just tired" opt for a stronger reconcilliation effort.

#769614 04/21/04 11:01 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sufdb:
<strong> res...I would counter with the following question..

What is it with the mindset that we think we have a right to walk away from a marriage without even trying to rebuild it?

sufdb...The thread doesn't seem to be about encourageing a reluctant partner to reconsider. I commented re some strong rhetoric (albeit venting perhaps, but ya say it, and all responses are fair) suggesting one partner in a marriage should be able to essentially imprison another....that is not marriage, and I commented accordingly.

So what does one do jo, make someone sleep in your (the general your) bed, make someone meet your laundary list of needs, make someone endure your presence...how do we do that? Involuntary servitude has a name, it's called slavery, we pretty much don't think people should be compelled to give up their lives by law or any other coercive means.

As for your question, I personally don't think one should walk away from a marriage without informing their spouse as to why (unless said spouse is dangerous).... as for rebuilding, I guess that is really in the eye of the beholder isn't it, and no one else is entitled or capable of an opinion about someone elses life. But then again I guess we could argue the merits of a world where everyone else gets to decide who can leave a marriage and who can't...you wanna live in that world?

The problem is not the ease of divorce, the problem is the ease of marriage. If we as a society passed laws that gave one person the power to hold another bound to them against their will, just think about that jo, and what that would mean. Aside from the injustices that would occur, there would be less people marrying at all, why take such a risk?

It is unfortunate this poster is distressed, and probably being treated poorly by his wife, and scared to death for his kid, and his ability to father her....but the solution is not in giving "him" power to own his wife, or force her to interact with him, be it counselling or anything else. And frankly the tone of his vent is troublesome, and may very well be something he should consider in trying to understand why his w has marital issues. But whatever role he plays in the marital disharmony, even if he is without fault at all, makes no difference, you cannot own another human being.

btw, heretofore I don't recall you engaging much in inappropriate poster baiting. My name is sufdb, I would appreciate your adherence to TOS and address me thusly. I remind you annonymity is something gauranteed to all who choose to post here, and whoever I might be in real life, or in another user ID is my business, and my business only, please respect that. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You obviously missed the whole point of why I posted this.

I don't wish to "own", or "control" anybody. I simply wish that divorce wasn't such a quick and easy thing. 'No Fault' is a terrible pox on this nation. Divorce is often decided upon by one person, and the other is left in a panic, trying like hell to fix whatever is wrong. It's not fair.
I've made some mistakes... I'm not perfect... however; I am a good man, I am a good father, and I am a good husband. My wife is emotionally unstable, and has a mental condition that causes her to be chronically depressed, and hopeless. She should be seeking help, not a divorce.
I love, and care for her deeply. I want to see her get the help she needs, and I want her and I to have a happy, healthy marriage.
I don't think she truely wants a divorce, however... she just thinks it's the only way. There's evidence to support this. I've offered it to her (as a test), and she won't start the proceedings. She says she wants a divorce... but, she won't divorce me.
She's scared of something... certainly not me, else there would be a restraining order, and I would never get to talk to her (like there would even be a reason for it). She's scared, and she thinks she has to run... because that's what she's used to.
It hurts me so badly to see her in this kind of misery she's making for herself. I want her to be happy. She was happy for a long time while we were together... but, now she's just in the dumps all the time.

<small>[ April 21, 2004, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: Jarod_Wynde ]</small>

#769615 04/21/04 11:17 PM
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Well, my decree says we were both guilty of inappropriate marital conduct.

The two things I did wrong were:
- didn't keep the house neat enough to suit him
- produced a second child, fathered by him, that wasn't a girl
- told him "I would tell you to go ---- yourself but you would enjoy it too much

The things he did were:
- move out
- gather names and telephone numbers of women at his gym while he was married to me

Somehow, I don't understand what I did wrong being 'inappropriat marital conduct' but I don't care any more. I figure it doesn't really matter what the paper says. What matters is that God knows I tried and that He cares for me.

Didn't help the pain any - but by the time I saw that on the decree, it made me mad but I knew it didn't matter. Not my favorite words but I know I did all I could.

Somehow, I get the feeling they will never have a reason for divorce/dissolution of a marriage that says "I can't take the insanity any more and I have to have some peace before I develop tachycardia caused by trying to repair a marriage to a person who is so checked-out of the marriage it isn't funny".

#769616 04/22/04 12:02 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sufdb:
<strong> btw, heretofore I don't recall you engaging much in inappropriate poster baiting. My name is sufdb, I would appreciate your adherence to TOS and address me thusly. I remind you annonymity is something gauranteed to all who choose to post here, and whoever I might be in real life, or in another user ID is my business, and my business only, please respect that. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you considered not responding to folks who address you by other names? My hunch is, so long as you respond when being addressed as something other than sufdb, people will keep doing it.

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