My ex has been doing some things lately that I don't agree with, and I'm not sure how to deal with it. He has the girls every other weekend and also the nights that I work. I have them every day after school, my nights off and every other weekend. Yesterday he dropped them off after having them at his parent's house for the weekend. Our middle daughter (who we both have difficulty with) was apparently acting up on the trip home. According to all three girls, he said some pretty rotten things to her during the trip. One of which was that I f*#@!& up his life and that now she was doing it too. He also told her that it is ok for her to swear (he gave her a verbal list of words she could use) as long as she never said anything like she loves Jesus. He is very upset that I am a Christian and am raising them in the Christian faith. He will not allow them to listen to Christian music at his house and has threatened to break or throw out their radios if he hears it being played. I do not agree with these actions or words. I do not appreciate my daughter swearing up and down and then telling me that daddy said it was ok. I've tried to talk to him about stuff like this before, but he denies saying and doing things or just plain doesn't care what I think. After all, I am just an ignorant, brainwashed Christian lol!! I'm not sure what to do or how to handle this. It seems like all my hard work with them is destroyed after they spend time with him. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. Mary.

MP22 - OK I don't think it is good that any child swears... How old is your middle child?? Maybe it is just the age... But again I don't think that any adult should tell a child that swearing is ok... Maybe you and your husband need to sit down and discuss these issues and how they are affecting the children... As for the religion maybe you could both teach your children each of your beliefs and explain that you don't agree but you want them to have a foundation from both parents and when they get older they can decide which faith they chose to believe in...I guess I am lucky in the respect that my husband does not actively participate in the raising of my girls - because I really only have to answer to myself - But again I wish that he did take part in their raising - So I guess you should be thankful that your ex wants to so actively participate... I am thinking their are alot of hurt feelings here - and a lot of he said she said stuff going on - And I guess that maybe the best advice would be for the two of you to attend counseling to decide on which way to raise your children the best - and then maybe you could all go as a family... But I am pretty sure he is going to pop onto this thread and have a whole different perspective on what really took place... So maybe a counseling session or two would be the best for the both of you ... Good Luck..

I suggest counseling & Rainbows. And if you don't have the book, buy Mom's House/Dad's house, or refer to the wealth of books out there on parenting children of divorce.
There are even books for your tweens age to help them understand.

One thing I have learned through 30 years of working with kids and through rearing one of my own, and that is to be cautious of accepting a child's version of what happened. I can think of some interesting versions of the truth I got from my son, which weren't falsehoods, just misleading. Children can be truthful but inaccurate, especially when it comes to conveying the tone of what was said. For instance, I can imagine a situation in which your D swears and then says, "Oops, Mom hates it when I say that", to which Dad replies in a humorous fashion, "You can say X and Y and Z, but don't ever say anything like you love Jesus." I don't know if that's how it happened, I'm just saying there is another side to this.

So if you bring this up to the father of your kiddos, it is best to say, "This is what D told me happened, and she seems upset about it" or "This is what D told me happened, and I'm concerned about it". That way it is not an accusation before you know the whole story. By all means, you do need to talk to him about your D and swearing. He may not mind, but a lot of adults, including teachers, mind big time, and it does her a disservice to let her think it's okay. Sad but true, if you have kids together, you still need to POJA, even when divorced. I'd just avoid any suggestion that if he weren't a heartless atheist, he wouldn't let his daughter swear. You and he as two people have a disagreement on this issue that needs to be worked out so that your kids will have clear guidelines.

You can also work with D on some self defense strategies for when anyone, including her Dad, says something that upsets her. One I taught my son was, "When you talk to me like that, it hurts my feelings". A child can learn this, it is not disrespectful of an adult, and it works with well meaning grown ups having a bad day (like, say, my son's mother on several occasions). You can talk to them about how it feels to have two different standards of behavior to learn, one from Mom and one from Dad, and get their ideas on what would help them cope. You may as well do this, you won't be able to protect them from every teacher, friend, future boss, and hubby who has different views from theirs and yours, so the sooner they learn good coping skills, the better prepared they will be for what life tosses at them.

As far as the religious issue, even if you and their Dad were totally united on this one, they would eventually be exposed to other views and might in time convert to another religion or abandon religion altogether. Ultimately, it is up to them to choose a path. IMO, you should teach them what you believe and require that they attend your church while they are with you on weekends, acknowlege that Daddy has different views and that this was a source of conflict between the two of you and tell them that someday they will be grown up and make their own decision. Set them a good example, pray for them, and hope for the best-that's really all any parent can do, IMO.

BP's disrespect of those "faithful" to a Christian ethic has been a real sticking point - yet I think he's sincerely bewildered sometimes by the feedback I have given him (a bit too cynical, even acrimonious sometimes - wonders why I have anything against him since he didn't do me any harm...).

He doesn't understand how guile is tremendously apparent to those who have had a bit too much of it from smug, self-righteous "intelligent and thinking and impartial(since they don't belong to ANY religion) atheists. His contempt for religion cannot be hidden - I got sucked into one of his "sincere" question threads months ago, and regreted deeply sharing my faith-based convictions when he was simply only gathering information so that he could mock...

At the same time, please keep in mind, children do not always accurately report the goings-on between themselves and their parents, and some will not hesitate to play one parent against the other.

I would stay calm during these first few weeks as the reports come home, and document. I would step up my personal faithful activities, reading scriptures, praying with the family and going to uplifting, religious-affirming pageants and experiences.

I know that there are some religions across the country that put on heritage and religion plays during the summer. The faith that I belong to has five or six such pageants where no admission is charged and the only ones who bug you are the anti-faith church bashers that show up to disrupt the faith-going people from having a truly faith-promoting experience. There's one near Rochester, New York, one in Illinois, and several west of the Rockies. Since the "bashers" aren't allowed on private property, the pageants are incredibly moving and let out late enough the "bashers" are all in bed by the time they finish.

This is a great time to have your children gain and strengthen their own faith. Ultimately it's what you want anyway - for them to be strong and close to God. God knows and loves your children. You just have to live more serenely and loving than the environment they experience in their father's home. Problem solved in one, affirming, loving step.

hi mp22,

In my experience, kids relay "what happened" according to the message(s) they got from whatever it was. I found that if I didn't get caught up in figuring out exactly who said what when and how, and instead focused on what the child understood what was said, it worked out a lot better.

Also, some kids will portray things in a way that "keeps the peace" while others will portray that same situation in a way the "lights the fuse". It depends on what works for that child and what the child wants to happen.

It strikes me that d's explanation of dad's rule for swearing came after her version of a statement by dad that included a swear word. The swearing probably falls in the category of dad's rules at dad's house, mom's rules at mom's house. Btw, when my kids swore they had to give 4 examples of other ways to express it without using a swear word. I didn't have a problem with swearing as long as my kids could also express themselves in a situation where swearing was not appropriate.

It also strikes me that if d heard dad say (not that it is necessarily what dad actually said) that you f***d up his life and now she is doing the same thing, she might have gotten the message that dad will "divorce" her too if she doesn't align with his views and rules on everything.

Sometimes a simple "mom and dad believe different things and do things differently" is not enough. Is it possible to see a couselor who specializes in children's issues after divorce?

Take care

Why is it mp22 you don't talk to me before you let things the kids say get you going?

In the last 3 days....you have listened to them on numerous accounts say things that I never said. One of which was apparently I forbid the kids to call you on the phone (never will happen), one of which is apparently I am saying "I love you" to someone on the phone (this may happen some day, but it will take one hell of a long time for it too happen), and who know's what else.

And now, you've done it again.

Yes, this weekend was surprisingly rough on the standpoint of children's behaviors. Friday night they fought, Saturday morning they fought, Saturday on the way to Nannies they fought, they fought at Nannies, and then they fought on the way home. I had had enough...and I let loose...and I shouldn't have. This is true.

Yes, I am certain in my unhappiness I told them that our marriage had f'ed up my life and I told them I am not going to let their behavior due it too. That is correct, that is what I said. Yes, it is not appropriate. I was wrong. The kids have said their apologies, as have I.

Now, I never told the kids it was OK to swear. That's a story. What I did tell them....was that when they are older, they can choose what words they wish to use. I also DID tell them that to me, saying things like "jesus died for me" and other such things bothers ME like some people are bothered by hearing the S word.

So, never did I tell them it is OK to swear, nor do they get away with it at my house. In fact, I told the kids on the way to Nannies, if their mouth continues to talk back and be so disrespectful to me OR THEIR MOTHER, than soap will begin finding it's way in their mouth.

So, that is what I said. Yeah, I was mad. I was completely sick and tired of the constant, incesstant whining, crying, fighting, moaning, etc. No matter what they are given, no matter how much they are provided with, they just won't stop the BS sometimes...and this weekend was way worse than any other time that I recall.

So, that is why Mak will be in bed each night this week early. T hit her sister tonight, and she too was in bed by 8:05. K and I had a great evening together, took a bath, then read a book, and then went to bed.

So, perhaps you should start asking me before you start believing them. Didn't we agree to do this months and months ago? To ask each other what happened BEFORE getting all pissy about it? Else perhaps I should have done something about M's comments about "getting the wind knocked out of her" or how you said "I'm going to hit you in the face as hard as I can if you don't shut up"

See, I realize they like to use us against each other. I understand that K will say things when she doesn't understand what was said....and you think I forbid them from calling you???? Why would you ever consider this?? Have I ever done so?? No...

So, yes, I was mad, I got upset, in fact I was really upset and irritated. But never did I tell them feel free to swear.

Yes, I won't let them listen to christian music here...not the crap that I can't stand. Fernando, no worries. No, I never told them I was going to throw their cd's or cd players away....unless they keep leaving them laying about the house. If they want to use headphones, they can listen to anything...as long as it isn't something I think is inappropriate, as in nasty lyrics and crap.

If you talk to the kids, you will discover that the majority of their choice jokes and music is heard at Amy's or Meagan's house. They don't listen to it here....and I don't know what they do there. But I DO KNOW they hear all this stuff at the friends house...whom I believe attends a christian school.... Oh well, so much for that.

So, before you start getting all upset, I suggest you:

1. Know the facts.
2. Talk to me before you start making stories up about me.
3. Find out whom their friends are, and what they are really doing when they are there.

I also hear that Katie was watching a PG-13 movie while she was at her friends house...which considering the movie, and how it was edited for television even, was extremely inappropriate. She was watching the DVD...not the TV...and I wouldn't let them watch the tv.

<small>[ April 27, 2004, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: bp22 ]</small>