She wants to stay seperated and continue to take care of herself and not attempt to work out our issues, her agenda clearly is focused on what she wants out of life, she has adopted the mindset of being a "single girl" however she doen't want to go thru with a divorce.

She has no desire to do anything regarding the basic fundamentals of marriage, everything has been totally the opposite way.

When it comes to sex she has said to me that she doesn't want to even attempt that with me because she says it would confuse me about what she wants out of our relationship and give me false hopes, she says "if we have sex then that would make you think I want you back and want to work on us" and "I am not ready for that and I'm not sure I want that and it'll make you want me more"

She is slowly adopting the same mindset of her twice divorced female friend. Her friend told her "act as if you are getting divorced" and have no responsibility for marriage and that will help you get past this so you can get on with your life.

Her friend obviously has no respect for her being a mother to our son because she constantly asks my W to do things with her that take her mind off being a mother and a married woman, she convinces her to "be a free woman, don't think about your H or son, they will be fine".

I have half a mind to go after this friend of hers for "creating situations detremental to the developement and emotional well being of a minor"

Maybe I should just start the legal divorce process and see if she actually fights for her marriage and son at all, if she doens't then I'll know exactly where she stands.

Ah, Hunter Fox, the last paragraph is the gem.

She alone doesn't get to dictate what will happen in your relationship. She can say what she won't do, but not what you won't do.

You have some control as well and you have choices. You can chose to continue playing by her rules or you can change the rules.


Have you been in Plan B? Written a Plan B letter? Anything like that?

One thing about filing... it'll hand you back some control and send her a clear message she can't have it both ways.

HF, I caught up on your other thread. You may want to delete part of it. Does anyone else know about those two weeks?
Look into legal separation. Also, look up Father’s Advocacy Groups. Your wife needs to be contributing to child support, so you should go to the Human Services Dept. or the equivalent and file for support. You don’t have to be divorced or legally separated to do this although each state is different.
Also, if you feel comfortable, drop me an email. I have a link for you of a site where they’re trying to develop resources for people who need temporary help. Since your family seems determined to give no help, you should feel free to ask others. My email is greengablesmb@hotmail.com.

It’s time you stop letting your wife have it both ways. By the way, there isn’t anything between her and her roommate is there? It seems odd that they would fight about her spending time fixing her marriage.

Tonight I dropped off our son at his mothers house. This am I picked him up from his grandmothers house. He has slowly but surely been changing from saying grandma to mommy. I told my W about this and she went full tilt off. She is now demanding he not see her anymore until she feels he is ready, and she said from now on in I am going to watch him on Sun, Mon and Tues you can have him on Wed Thu Fri and Sat.

She said I dont want him going over there to that evil womans house and I dont want him seeing her at all!!!! She said IF I EVER CATCH YOU GOING OVER THERE WITH HIM I WILL FILE FOR FULL CUSTODY, END OF STORY!!!!

He was really growing and learning well because he had a female that actually took an interest in him and did good things with him, now he has to loose that because of her anger at a situation she created in the first place.

I told her I was glad she was going to start to take him more and take more responsibility with him. I only hope and pray that she's not taking more responibility just because she of her anger, because having him more and more will start to wear on her as she sees that it is not that easy to raise a child and its going to limit some of her free time.

It does bother me that she is getting more and more comfortable with us never getting back together and raising our son under 1 roof. She believes that this is going to be in the best interest of the child when in fact it is going to do more damage than good in the long run.

Now, since she is going to take him more often I am going to have to set some boundries as who I want around my son and what will be tolerated. The first person will be her friend that is fueling this seperation and has taken it upon herself to come between us.

I am going to make it well known that if she goes to the bar then I will pursue her for full custody. It is time that I draw the line on what kind of behaviours I will tolerate. I am going to make her toe the line if she is willing to take on more responsibility for our son.

Thoughts?

My thought, Hunter, is you should get a lawyer and how. If you have not been splitting custody 50/50 don't start now.

She's going to file for full custody? When she hasn't had that for two years?! When she's not even paying child support?!

As far as I know you can't stipulate who your child sees when with his other parent except in cases of abuse. I could be wrong on this though.

I don't think her tone bodes well if it's basically the same as you paint here.

Why does this friend/roommate hold so much sway with your wife?

Why does this friend/roommate hold so much sway with your wife?

Because they work together and she rides to work with her. They go to ladies night together, they go out drinking together, they share pot together, they share life experiences that are anti-men together.

My W is 30 and her "friend" is 53. They do a lot of "hanging out" together. Her friend is twice divorced and like to share her painful marriage experiences with my W and my W is emulating her lowlife behaviour. The "friend" was extremely jealous of my W initially because I would treat my W with respect and she said "I was a good man and she should value such a good man that she has".

However because I'm not around as much, this "friend" is encouraging my W away from our marriage. One night her "friend" said to her while I was in the room, ya know HF is really going to hate me for turning you on to the corner bar so much and taking you to ladies night every wednesday" My W turned to her and said "he's going to hate me even worse for going so much"

I see the same patterns starting to develope again that she exhibited when she was with her roommate from before. It did nothing but draw us further and further apart. It did'nt cause us to divorce but this situation may just end up doing that. Problem is that my W doesn't see it.


p.s. There is going to be a visit to the lawyer's office on Monday.

<small>[ May 04, 2004, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: HunterFox ]</small>

Hooray. I'm glad your going to get good legal advice now. Much better than waiting until later.

I still think there is a very weird dynamic going on with this older woman who has latched onto your wife or possibly vice versa. Could this "friend" be a lesbian?

I'm not suggesting your wife is, just maybe this friend is. The way you tell it, it sounds like a Svengali. The guy who mesmerized a young woman and made her do what he told her to.

If your wife would leave this woman, I think you'd have a chance. But after two years, you've got to protect yourself and your son.

BTW, unless your mother is truly evil, I see no reason why you can't take your son to visit. After all, you can't rip him away from a mother figure at this point in his life.

Let us know what the lawyer says about custody and support.

If your wife would leave this woman, I think you'd have a chance. But after two years, you've got to protect yourself and your son.

They are not roommates but they do live in the same apt complex. If my W would put some attention on our Marriage then yes, we would have a chance, but misery likes company I suppose. No, they are not "lesbians" at all. My W's friend is "getting back together" with her old boyfriend and I have noticed that my W is not to happy about it, I think she feels threatened that they won't have the "closeness" that they have shared.

One night after a hard night of drinking my W was so completely smashed that she could not make it home and her "friend" put her up in her apt for the night. (their apts are 4 doors apart, that particular night I knew she was at the bar so I went to my W's apt and left her a huge bouquet of roses, just because, but she didn't know about that till the next am when she left her friends apt and went home, she did call me and thank me) My W said that her "friend" didn't want her to go home alone because of her "condition".

At this point I think I am going to have to take a stance and make her decide if she wants to continue to be married OR choose the bar and make that a un-movable boundry.

I'm sure I will here how controlling that is but I really cannot justify staying in this marriage if she is going to continue this behaviour.

I hope she chooses to stay away from the bar because if she goes there again then I will have no choice but to put the hammer down and MAKE her decide one way or another.

Once I say that I know she will throw the whole marriage thing in my face and make me feel guilty for making that decision, she will probably say things like "I'm an adult and I can do what I want.

I'll just say "for the past 2 years this seperation has affected the quality of our son's life and our marriage, I am getting tried of this indecisiveness on your part affecting his growth and future and if you have any respect for that then you will stop this BS.

Okay, I think I finally am understanding. They are co-alcoholics and neither wants anyone to come between them.

Hunter, you’ve got it a little backwards. You won’t be forcing her to decide. You’ll be making a decision about what’s best for you and your son. A decision you have every right to make. Yes, she’s an adult and she can chose what she does. So are you, and you can chose too. That choice may be to leave your marriage.

As for her laying a guilt trip on you…. That’s to be expected. People who refuse to own their choices will do that. Don’t fall for it. Really, what they are saying is “How dare you not act exactly as I wish? How dare you not enable me to take you and the family down with me? How dare you decide to take care of yourself when I want you to allow me to live life without responsibility?”

And Hunter, if I were you, and I’m not, I change the stipulation from staying away from the bar to staying clean and sober. No drugs and no alcohol. Period. The picture you’re painting is of an alcoholic or an alcoholic in the making.

If you think your wife may be an alcoholic, remember Plan A won’t work with an addict. And you cannot have a real relationship with an addict because their most important relationship is with the drug. You are only there to further that relationship.

I don’t think I’ve mentioned how much admiration I have for you and other fathers out there who are bringing up children alone. It’s hard work, and society doesn’t give fathers much support or credit right now.

You could have run away. You could have followed your mother’s advice and relinquished your child. Instead, you took responsibility. Heck, you could have found some woman to live with you, keep house, clean, whatever. And you haven’t.

YOU and your son will be just fine. You two will be successful.

Hey, another thought. I know this is really long. But I think this important because I sense a “knight in shining armor” in you. I may be projecting my own rescue instincts onto you and if so, ignore this.

If however, you feel the need to rescue your wife…. read on.

There is an important distinction between causing discomfort and causing harm. Suppose you step on a rusty nail. Being a responsible intelligent person, you go to the doctor. He gives you a huge tetanus shot. It causes pain. In doctor lingo that’s “discomfort.” It hurts now, but does good.

Now, suppose you go to your barber and he slits your throat open. That’s causing harm. No good comes of it.

You can take the same thing and apply it to people. Sometimes, we have to let them feel discomfort and pain. Rushing in to fix it and make them feel better deprives them of the impetus (the pain or discomfort) to change and grow.

I find the above difficult to practice. I was the caretaker and peace maker in my family of origin. But it gets easier, especially after I’ve been through my own tough times.

Okay end of mini-lecture.

Hi there... I feel for you and your son in this situation.

My suggestion, and you can take it or leave it, is...

First, meet with the lawyer and start the divorce. Remember, in most states it takes time before it's final. (I'm in Michigan and we have a 6-month waiting period.) Make sure to hash out that you want full custody, and she can have visitation (since it sounds like that is what she wants right now anyways). Also, make sure they have her start paying child support. You shouldn't have to be taking care of your son on your own, as you didn't bring him into this world on your own.

(You need to be the one to file for divorce and start the custody "battle" before she does, because the person who files first gets the better deal. She is already threatening you to do it, so you need to do it first.)

Then, before she gets served the divorce papers, I would write her a letter. Tell her that things can not and will not remain the way they are. That you have filed for divorce to protect yourself and your son. Tell her that if she wants any chance of reconciliation, you require her to give up all drugs and alcohol (plus anything else you feel you need from her... like no more contact with "friend"). Let her know the time line she has to work with, as she may need to seek help to stop these hurtful things. Don't go into feelings and things, because it's clear she really doesn't care much at this point. Just put the facts out there.

Finally, I wouldn't talk with her anymore. Cut the ties for now so she has time to fully see what life will be like without you. Let her see that she can't have her party life and you on the back burner too. Let her see that she has a major choice to make, don't tell her, let her see it.

She's a lucky one and doesn't even know it. You love her, are taking care of your son, sending her flowers, etc. Just take care of you and your son and leave her to figure things out on her own. She will. If she's got a brain, she will figure out where she should be. If not, then she's not good enough anyways. Don't you deserve someone who will be there for you every night? Don't you deserve someone who doesn't drink, smoke, party? Doesn't your son deserve to know his mom is going to be there when he needs her? If she can't give you guys this, then you need to move on anyways. You deserve better. I pray that she will come to her senses.

These are just my thoughts... but I am going through a very similar situation, and did all this. Unfortunately, he chose the other life and not me and the kids. It's for the better, and my life is already beginning to improve.

God bless.

Eloquently said, scubed!

I just beat around the bush too much.

I am going to say to her tonight that if she continues to go to the bar and meet and talk with other guys then I am going to have to go ahead and file and that I will start the process on monday.

She has a lot of anger in her for the bad choices she has made and is completely convinced that it is all my fault we are at this point.

She is currently having a hard time with her employer (her and her "friend" so I told her about opening where I work. She jumped at the chance and both of them applied today. She is more concerned about looking out for her "friend" because of the loyalty she feels towards her. Everything today was "we" (her and her friend).

She told me last night "I don't know why you and my friend have such a hard time paying your bills, I certainly dont and I'm doing just fine, I just can't figure it out.

She is so freakin blind.

Even with what we have been thru I still feel it better if she put aside all this BS she has in her life and we raise our son together and work past our issues. She told me she can't do that until she has 100% completely forgot about all the bad times that our relationship had because that is what is keeping her away.

Maybe I should find someone with a decent maturity level. This is such crap.

HF