</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graeme:
<strong>
I gave her my keys back and told her I could not live with being friends, that we are either married or not.. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, got it.

See, here's my concern......

I'm concerned she will see your openness to talking with/meeting with her as YOU not being serious that you will NOT be "friends only."

Do you see that? She needs to know that YOU are just as hurt over all this as she, that it hurts you over and over whenever you see/talk to her, but not acting as H and W.

I'm thinking she's doing what the "normal WS" would do when given a Plan B letter: They try to get their BS to abandon that idea and go back to the status quo.

It kinda sounds like you are getting stuck in that same pattern of behavior by spending so much time talking to her right now. I'm NOT saying there won't come a time to talk. It's just that I'm concerned this is NOT about reconciling. This is "talking" in order for her to continue to get her "fix" of you.

Yes, she still "needs" you - on some levels. Just wants to stay angry at you, and NOT act as though you two are M'd. But wants to know you are available to her.

My 2¢ only <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

God Bless,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lupolady:
See, here's my concern......

I'm concerned she will see your openness to talking with/meeting with her as YOU not being serious that you will NOT be "friends only."

Do you see that? She needs to know that YOU are just as hurt over all this as she, that it hurts you over and over whenever you see/talk to her, but not acting as H and W.

I'm thinking she's doing what the "normal WS" would do when given a Plan B letter: They try to get their BS to abandon that idea and go back to the status quo.

It kinda sounds like you are getting stuck in that same pattern of behavior by spending so much time talking to her right now. I'm NOT saying there won't come a time to talk. It's just that I'm concerned this is NOT about reconciling. This is "talking" in order for her to continue to get her "fix" of you.

Yes, she still "needs" you - on some levels. Just wants to stay angry at you, and NOT act as though you two are M'd. But wants to know you are available to her.

My 2¢ only <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

God Bless, [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi, well I don't really know what to say.

Yes all that you say, and all I read makes perfect sense.

So the going out for dinner etc is just enough to keep me interested so I don't "rock the boat"? Oh why do we play such games??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Will she expect this situation to go on for ever then? I think I've well and truly blown any chances of my plan B being taken seriously this time now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graeme:
<strong>Will she expect this situation to go on for ever then? I think I've well and truly blown any chances of my plan B being taken seriously this time now. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I think you can get back on track with your Plan B. Just reiterate your "conditions" to her. Tell her you realized (again) after the last go-round and time spent talking together how much you love her, and how much it hurts to try to just be friends, and chat occasionally.....blah, blah.

You know what to say.

Of course - tell her again that you're so very sorry for this whole mess. That you realize it all started with YOUR screw-up. But also that you realize you screwed up royally, and you are now trying to make amends to her. That you wish she could see it in her heart to try to trust you again, and let you prove to her that you truly love her and want to be faithful to her for the rest of your lives.

But, if she can't........well, then, it's Plan B.

I think that's the best way to get back to Plan B, without blowing it totally. She will know ~exactly~ what you are doing and why.

"Friends" doesn't cut it. You love her too much. This way (HER WAY) means both of you are miserable, lonely, seeking what you cannot find while hanging on (at least partially) to each other. YOUR WAY (Plan B) means you are away from each other, from hurting each other, and being hurt by each other, and can begin to heal, and move on.

Graeme, listen. AT THIS POINT, IT'S CRUCIAL THAT SHE BELIEVE YOU ARE MOVING ON. THAT ALONE is what is going to have her start to imagine life without you totally, and have her begin to re-evaluate if that's really the life she wants for her future.

I'm praying for you, my brother.

God Bless,

Hi!

Well it's almost 2am here in the UK, so I'm going to keep this short!

We just went out to dinner, had a lovely meal, chatted all night - no pressure stuff, went back to hers for coffee, then I left after a couple of hugs and a very sterile kiss. I can see that we're just in the same rut as always, although I would say that the last few weeks I've met quite a few ENs so at least I think the time has not been wasted. Leaving a positive impression before plan "B"ing must be the right thing to do.

She said she would call me so we will see what happens.

I know I've got to re-instate plan "B" if there is to be any chance at all of breaking out of this, so I will wait for the right time in the next week then tell her that it's one or the other now...

Thanks again and God bless

I think it may be best to do this by letter. I'm more able then to control what I say without emotions getting in the way (and of course I won't see her non-reaction <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> ). She did tell me to stop writing her letters but I think it's needed this time.

So here's my first attempt...

W,

I've been in a lot of turmoil the last while. I love you from the bottom of my heart, I love being near you, I love everything about you.

I know what a mess I've got us both in, and the only wish I've had for a long time was that you could start to trust me again and that we could begin to look to the future not the past. But that's not going to happen.

I told you the other day that I couldn't cope with just being friends. It's not what I want, I need someone to love and care for.

I've got to try and find a life without you so I think we're going to have to stop seeing and chatting to each other. With me around you can't move on with your life either.

I also think that we have to put an end to all this mess, so I will see a lawyer soon and get it over with.

I want you to be happy, I've looked after you as best I can. You have the house, I'll carry on paying what we agreed.


Love Graeme

Well, g, here's the thing.

It looks OK to me,sounds as tho you've covered the important points, buuut, I never had to write a Plan B letter, so I'm no good at judging.

Maybe you can post it on GQII and let some "experts" have a poke at it?

As I said, it looks OK to me, but what do I know? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

God Bless,

Hi, well I never did get to tell her I was moving on. After the 5 minute phone call 2 weeks ago, nothing. I suppose she expected me to call, I didn't, so now neither of us will.

It's over 2 weeks since we've communicated at all so I've no idea what she's thinking. I wouldn't be surprised if she thinks I've met someone, that's been her reaction before. But of course she could be quite content with the situation as it is.

I guess I just have to stick it out now and leave the ball in her court. I keep feeling that I want to prod things but I think it's best just to wait.

Plan B is certainly not for the faint hearted!!

Does anyone understand women!!!!

I prodded her.

I filled in the divorce papers and sent her a copy with a note saying that although it wasn't what I wanted we had obviously reached the end of the road, so we may as well get it all over and done with. I haven't filed them though.

The minute she got them my phone rang, then my mobile, then the phone twice again. Then she appeared at my door - having come 20 miles.

She was here for the last 4 hours. Doesn't want a divorce, says she doesn't know what she wants. Kept saying it was my choice and she wanted to be friends.

I don't know how many times I said that friends don't work, there was 2 choices only and as she didn't want me then I had no choice left, that I'd spent a year living in hope but that now I had given up.

Towards the end she tried "we're on holiday soon" "will you help me clear the garden" "won't you come for tea" "do you mean I'll never see or speak to you again". But there was nothing concrete enough for me to give in. She kept trying to say it was my choice...

When she went she tried to give me a kiss but I said no.

I did think it was tantalisingly close, but not close enough.

Hopefully she has lots to think about now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graeme:
<strong>
Plan B is certainly not for the faint hearted!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, graeme, it certainly is NOT!

Stand your ground. You said it, you have to let her know you mean it.

I think I told you she would try to weaken your resolve. Hold steady, friend.......

This thing only has two ways to go. Either she will "relent" and agree to try to fix your M, or she will pull further away, and you will end up Div'd. By putting yourself in Plan B, you are preparing yourself (mentally anyway) for the second option. IF she "comes around" during this self-imposed Plan B, then this time spent alone had BETTER have been well spend making yourself a better person, husband, and father.

Trust me on this: Recovery ain't for the faint-hearted, either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Trust me. This IS your best option of recovering your M.

And I'm praying for you.

God Bless,

G, so how's Plan B going???

Ominously quiet over there.

Hi GG,

I'm getting used to it I think. The worst thing is how time drags. Days feel like weeks, I even came on here at the weekend to see if it really had been just a few days - I honestly thought it was weeks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Anyway nothing at all has happened since my last post. Caught myself a few times trying to think of an excuse for contact, but it's not going to happen!

Anyone make sense of this one....??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I sent OM an email on 1/1/5 to the hotmail address I found on the PC. I said:

"It would be sensible for you to listen to what I have to say"

No answer - till yesterday, and I got:

"how can i help you"

I replied:

"you can't"

Just got a reply:

"I might be able to, quite happy to meet you, answer any questions that you have for me, speak soon"

What's he playing at?

He and WW probably had to talk before he got back to you.

How's everything going? You are still "dark" aren't you?

Take care, and God Bless,

Hi,

As dark as a coal mine! - not a foot out of line!

What will you say to OM if you talk with him?

Hi GG

I won't talk to him. Can't see anything that I can gain from that. I replied on saturday:

"I don't have any questions for you.
I hardly think that meeting is a very good idea do you?
I can see absolutely no reason why we would want to meet anyway."

Nothing back from him yet. No doubt he's just panicking that I'm going to talk to his W. No intentions of doing that either, although he is named on the D papers when and if I file them....

I will enjoy knowing he's squirming though!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Went to pick up the youngest last night (from outside the house), first time I've been over there for a while, it wasn't nice. He told me (without prompting) that his mum got "stressed" when he said I was coming for him and took to her bed before I got there (7pm)...

No doubt she also expected the usual card/flowers today - they won't be arriving..

I think that sounds good. No flowers, no canday. No meeting OM and beating him to a pulp. So, what are you doing to keep busy? I spent Sunday morning ironing and watching bad romantic movies.

I have no interest in OM. Anyway I'm told he's xOM.

I don't know why but today I woke up in a good mood (maybe because the weekend's over!). I have plenty to do in my business and am gradually getting more and more motivation to do it.

I think I'll stay away from the ironing and bad movies though!!! That may well do me more damage than good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ February 18, 2005, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: graeme ]</small>

I'm scared and weakening