I too grew up in the 60's and the era of free love and all that blather. I spent 8 years in college living large in a more innocent time full of turmoil and discovery in this country. My answer is one from a movie "more than Lady Di...less than Madonna". My H is not interested in the details...nor am I interested in the details of his youth...we both walked into our marriage with a very good idea of where we were....so names and dates were not given. But once I was sitting around a table in Alaska with about 6 other women...all who were a bit younger than I was. Somehow (ha) the subject shifted to men and sex. The lady on my left said "I married my h right out of high school...I've never been with anyone else." The lady to her left expressed similar circumstances and it went like this all around the circle until it got back to me. At a loss for words...and slightly embarrassed, all I could say was "well, I guess I'm the only slut here." I have been married for 19 years and I have never even come close to infidelity. In some ways it has meant that I do not feel the curiousity that many of these ladies expressed that day about other partners.

Lost,<p>I've posted a bit on this topic of "is the past is important or not", -mostly on the resolving conflict board... I'm sorry if some of it came accross rough, but on the flip side I'm glad the tone of this thread has changed quite a bit.<p>Some of the other posters above seemed pretty protective of their right to deceive their spouse before marraige, and then persecute him as being a "tiny man" for his insecurity when the truth surfaces.<p>It is true that we are the weakerr sex in many ways - our insecurity and fragile egos are dificult to comfort sometimes...<p>but in contrast, you sound like a loving wife, who is understanding, sensitive, and compassionate about your husband's insecurities. I think you have the best chance possible for helping your husband... <p>I read your post above and am praying for clarity for your husband - that he comes to see your past for what it is, and the present for the wonder ful gift and opportunity that it is... <p>Good luck...

Dearest Lost,
how much time has passed since your H found this out and is acting like this? He sounds like he may not be secure.<p>I had a similar thing happen with my husband. I was somewhat loose in my younger years too. I am not proud of it but that is what happened and I can't change it. I have the duty know to make sure my daughters do not fall into the same traps I did. I have told my husband who was my boyfriend at the time. He insisted to know all the details and I told him. He acted weird for awhile. It took him time to adjust. He told me some things about himself that he wasn't proud of. The things that make it easier for me are as follows:<p>all are new creations in Christ. the old you "passed away" the moment you were saved. I don't remember from your posts if you were born again or not. It is not good to dwell in the past and that too is in the Lords book. The past will distroy you if you dwell and pick on it as if it were today. You need to forgive and respect yourself too. I am sure to also praise my husband when we are intiment. He sometimes brings it up in ways like was that the best you ever had. I can truely answer yes because his love bank over flows with me. All the affection it is all there and is right.
Forgiveness is commanded. Your H needs to get over this and he needs to respect you and cherish you as his w. You are older and wiser and chose him to spend your life with. I hope things improve for you because I can feel your pain through your words.

<p>[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: Lulu ]</p>

It's hard to believe that with so many women out there that there are so few replies to this thread. This is your chance to speak out and be heard and no will even know who you are..

OK, if you are stillooking for answers...<p>...what I really want to know is - what is normal? I read somewhere that for women 4 partners is average. <p>I must be spot-on average (well, on this anyways!) H was #4 (and my exclusive partner for 20+ years now).<p>
And secondly, does your H or SO know all the details of your histories? <p>He knows how many, and who. Never has asked for details or wanted to know, even way back when, when I offered to answer any q's he might have.<p>There was a poll on # of partners a while back...here's a link...<p>www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=000938<p>Kathi<p>[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</p>

I just dont get it. Have you and your H read the books? Have you two done the EN survey, the LB survey? Been to counceling? It just sounds to me like he is bashing you and no-one is making any changes. I dont think you enjoy the turmoil, and I hope that you realise that the longer this problem rocks on the more damage it does. What have you done to change the picture? Please do something! I feal like I am having a bad dream and I am watching helplessly as your marriage is bleading to death and NO-ONE WILL DO ANYTHING TO STOP THE D___ BLEEDING!!!!!! Wont someone venture out into the rain and apply a dressing, a turnacate, a bandaid, shoot it and put it out of its missery?
I have been sober for bout 4 1/2 months and this is making me thirsty. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

I read your first post, which is basically intended as a survey. Prior to your marriage you had sex with 30 partners & you wanted to know whether you are normal person or abnormal based on law of average. Whether we are normal or abnormal cannot be determined by number of sexual partners we have had but it is our own mind set will decide what we are. A person may not have single sexual partner but he or she still could be sexually abnormal depending on that person’s state of mind. I remember one story. Two saints wanted to cross the river. They saw one woman trapped in the water while she was trying to cross the river. Her all clothes were swept away by strong current. Woman requested for help. One saint carried the full nude woman on his shoulder & crossed the river. He gave her his some cloths to cover her bare necessities. Woman went where she wanted to go & the two saints were going towards their destination. While going, the other saint started talking, “you have seen that woman, full nude. Don’t you?” “ Yes.” “ When you were carrying that woman, you were touched by her intimate body parts. Isn’t it? ” “ Yes.” The other saint continued asking question about the woman. The saint who carried woman finally said, “ Look, I carried that woman from one end of the river to another end of the river but you have been carrying her all the time.” Coming to the main point again, a nun who is supposed to remain unmarried can be considered abnormal if she marries & even though has legitimate sex partner whereas swinger couple or sexually freed person may consider themselves normal despite having many partners. My wife became escort without my knowledge & by the time I came to know she had already slept with approximately 5,000 people in three-year periods. Moreover, she tremendously enjoyed it. However recently she quit her profession even though I did not force her to quit. So I still consider her as normal human being. So you need not carry guilt for multiple partners in the past.
I read few posts in which promiscuity is correlated with low self-esteem or opposite sex approval needs. Again, some body has said that woman is more likely to be unhappy & unfaithful in her marital life if she indulges in premarital sex. One of my female friends is doing Ph.D. in sexual behaviour. She herself is broadminded person & she has conclusively proved that sleeping with multiple partners does not necessarily mean low self-esteem. It could simply reflect the fact that person is fun loving in nature. There are great personalities and leaders in the history who were promiscuous in nature. They were not promiscuous to raise their self-esteem.
Again it is observed that we tend to evaluate our spouse based on his or her faithfulness in sexual behaviour. Though I don’t underestimate the importance of sexual faithfulness, I personally feel that sex is just one aspect of personality. Many times, it is observed that some promiscuous people have exceptionally good qualities. I myself am bit religious person & hence do not prefer promiscuity but I believe that if person is considered in totality, he or she can be wonderful person with one weakness however. In my wife’s case her other good qualities outweighs her sexual drawback. Therefore I saved my marriage & yes I still consider her as my prized possession despite the fact that she has countless sexual encounters in her account. I recently read one book entitled as why I chose to become prostitute. Author is qualified woman in U.S. who chose prostitution by her own choice. At one place she says, woman’s most intimate part is not between her two legs but it lies between her two ears (brain), & I share that with my husband only. I agree with her to a certain extent.
I don’t have precise advice to offer as to how to convince your husband or what you should do under the circumstances. You can expect good advice from few people like frankly my dears. However, I can say that you need not feel degraded merely because you had sexual encounters with many people. You need not have to think that you failed or degraded 30 times morally. Think in a positive way. From your post it seems you are wonderful woman. You have not failed by sleeping with 30 partners but you have successfully discovered that sleeping with 30 people does not work.

9, including 2 husbands. 5 from 18-20 when I got married to #6. Married for nearly 8 years. One fling while I was single, and now married to #9. X wanted to know, I stupidly told him. He'd only been with one other, and was FURIOUS that I had more "experience" then he. In fact, he used the you've had more than me to justify an affair and the nearly yr long 'relationship' with another couple. Yes, he forced me into swinging. It was only 'fair' since I was such a tramp (not the word he used). It was an obviously abusive marriage that I escaped 4 yrs ago. Back to topic- Do I think you're abnormal? No. I have friends who's lists are much longer AND shorter. The average # is just that, a combination of numbers.
My H and I haven't had a total recall session because it doesn't matter. We were both married for over 7 yrs before. He was faithful to his wife, and he knows what my H put me through. We're together NOW, that's all that matters. The past is just that, the past. Unless you told him you were a vir., he needs to grow up and shut up. Good grief.

Hello All,<p>Boy, I thought this thread was dead. It’s hard to believe it’s been 11 months since H found the journals. It’s all been a big blur. We are on some emotional roller coaster! At times things seem pretty normal and everything is going great and then the next thing you know - he shuts down - I know he’s thinking something bad, moods go bad and I wish for the day to be over.<p>I don’t really think I’m being too hard on myself. I feel so totally awful for what I’ve done to him. I can see his side, too. He never thought I could lie – he always thought I was terrible at it – and to find out I’ve lied about my past since practically the night we met – was a terrible blow. He feels like there’s so much that he doesn’t know about me – and he thought he knew everything. Add that to what happened with the co-worker a few years back and I feel like I’m still lucky to be here. <p>We have read His Needs, Her Needs and we went to counseling first three years ago and then again last July. Problem was – everybody keeps saying H has to just get over it and he would leave feeling angry because he wasn’t the one that did anything wrong and he’s the one that has to make all the adjustments. And how does one go about “getting over it?” The really weird part is I don’t even remember it. He knows all the details because he read every page (I never got through even one of them). And I think maybe I’ve altered my own reality as time has passed. I don’t remember it the way I wrote it. It seems like it wasn't even me. I simply have demolished his perception of me.<p>I figure all I can do it tell him (and show him) how much I love him. I keep promising a future… I just wish he didn’t feel such regret about his life. I feel like I need to be the strong one through this for him – he has no idea how hard this is for me. <p>Thanks for all the encouraging words. I’m still hanging in and so is H…. I wish he’s post on MB – it really does help to just be able to talk about it…

lost,<p>Do you know that we have the same name? What do we do in this case?<p>lost

Lost (original post-er),<p>I couldn&#8217;t have predicted where your thread was going to go &#8211; I usually hang out at the D & D-ing page these days. If you don&#8217;t mind the male perspective, you are right, it is a bit simple to tell your H to &#8220;just get over it.&#8221; It does sound like he has some self-esteem or image issues, which usually show through overt control and criticism of others. It is not really about your past or diaries, but his expectation of some perfect ideal. He may be so tightly bound to the ideal that he may not be able to get over it. He has no right to criticize your work, etc. Stay in counseling and both commit to work hard. Your H needs to face up the self-improvement that he needs to do. <p>BTW, on your original thread, I&#8217;ve always thought it too foolish to talk about &#8220;normal&#8221; and &#8220;average&#8221; regarding sex partners, etc. W had more past experience than me, but she&#8217;d always give me great compliments <underdogs always try harder>. The most &#8220;normal&#8221; thing anyone can do is to constantly raise questions about life, love and happiness, but you must realize you&#8217;ll never find any true answers. Life is too short &#8211; enjoy it in abundance!
[img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

it doesn't matter to some and it matters very much to others. each person is aloud to feel which ever way they wish. as some of you may know my wife thought it best to lie about her 40+ young men. it is devistating to find out how good of a liar your wife is not to mention the popularity. women should be able to have sex with as many people as they wish but lying about it doesn't mean it never happened. this has a negative effect on a relationship. believe it or not!!

How long has it been for you now, HOL? You are absolutely right that lying has a profound effect on a relationship. My H never thought I could lie. We used to play poker quite a bit with friends and he used to think I was so funny because if I ever bet a quarter he'd know I had a good hand - that I couldn't bluff. He's reeling from the realization that I've been lying all along. I just wish he'd put me out of my misery. I never thought so much about this in all of my life as I have since it all surfaced. How did I get the way i was? Why did I think it OK to lie? Why did I think my past did not make me the person I am today? And that's the thing that gets me the most.<p>I am not the same person I was when I was a teenager. I've grown and realized that life meant more than what I had thought. That values and conviction were truly important. I want to raise my daughter with a true sense of self-worth. I want her to know she should value herself more than I did. That giving of herself is a gift like no other.<p>H says maybe we should take the kids to Hooters (my 20 year old neice works there) so daughter (8 years old, mind you) can see what a "good job" you can get if you don't get fat. This is his state of mind lately.<p>It's been almost a year. If you had asked me 6 months ago, if things don't improve if I would still be here, I don't know how I would've answered. This weekend was absolutely awful and I have endured such verbal attacks that I think about his words continuously in my mind. I feel like I'm losing my ground. That I'm believe what he says about me. That I'm not capable of being a loving wife and mother. That I deserve somebody more like me.<p>I don't know how long I'm going to be able to keep doing this. I'm losing myself - everything I'd gained - all the self-respect (which granted maybe wasn't ever truly earned) is gone. I wish every day to be over before it ever starts. I dread him coming home because I never know what kind of mood he'll be in. God, I wish I had somebody else's life!!!

I have a question for you Lost..You say you rarely thought of your past before your H read your diaries (this is also how i found out) but how often did you think of it because of the fact that you would need to alter stories to not blow your cover? How often did you worry about being found out and how did it make you feel these few times that did occur? Could it have been more times then you recall? Could it have had more of an effect then you realized.

hol<p>it was 2 years ago april 20 that i found her journals. thing have been going much better the past couple of months between us but i think of it many times every day still. i just don't speak of it. This is not a permanent solution.<p>[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: hol ]<p>[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: hol ]<p>[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: hol ]</p>

Lost, i was happy to see that you started this thread but as i expected i am disappointed. As i mentioned my wife surprised me with a past that took it 40 + men (i have no idea where it stops just at least 40). i have been searching to find some sign that my wife wasn't the only one to go to such extreems (besides maybe porn stars and hookers) but i see no one here is even close. That's quite an accomplishment. i realize it was her right to do it with everyone she wanted to do it with and then lie about it but i still wish she wouldn't have. And i loved her more before i know she did. She was only doing what she wanted and had a right to do but i didn't want someone who ever wanted that.<p>[ May 18, 2002: Message edited by: hol ]</p>

I've been with 10 men/boys between the ages of 15-18 (I'm 21 now). I don't think my number is excessive and I don't think yours is either. Your past is exactly that-your past. Your husband is extremely insecure and needs to grow up. Do you constantly ask him questions about his past sexual experiences? I doubt it!<p>You are you regardless of how many people you've been with--he did fall in love with YOU right??

HOL - I'm sorry you're disappointed with this thread. I'm not sure what you were looking for, but many of the people that responded with numbers you might notice didn't really give the "number". My hope was actually the opposite of yours. I'm trying to say I "wasn't" normal. I know I never felt normal. I always felt like I didn't measure up. I know now I had to have had low self-esteem and didn't value my body for what it was worth. I did this in the early 80's (yet before AIDS) and it wasn't the sexual revolution as other posters can relate to. I still feel I'm different. I hope not everybody does what I did.<p>You don't ever really say what your W says about her past. Does she have her own reason for being promiscuous? <p>Your question about my thinking about it over the years really wasn't an issue. There were a few times when the past would come up, and I probably did get uncomfortable if I had to lie, but I think I convinced myself that it didn't happen. It was between me and God and I was going to take it to my grave. <p>I can't see how it makes me less of a person, but it does in H's eyes. This is what makes me feel like less, too. Seeing his disappointment truly makes me question whether I'm a good person or not. I always felt like a good person that nobody could see. Now I feel like a bad person just pretending to be good.<p>Conflictedexan - when you say "he did fall in love with you, right?" I could about burst into tears. I thought so, but now he says he doesn't even know who I am. Once a W****, always a W****. He thinks I've just been pretending to be this person that he's lived with for 16 years - that he never knew the real me. Sometimes his true feelings come out and he out and out hates me. I'm not sure if those are his true feelings or if he's just so hurt that that's how he takes it out on me.<p>He trusted me - he believed in me - and I let him down. I don't know how to make that better...

Lost,
She say's how they were all such great guy's. And they were good friends that she worked with.That she never had sex with anyone she didn't love. Most of her guy's were waiters or bartenders at different places she worked(not exclusively but most). She was a waiteress till she was 32 yrs old thats why most all of the men as she calls them were from ages 21 to 25 so she really liked the young ones. Imagine being 44 yrs old and feeling your competing with at least 40 different 21 to 25 yr olds in the sack. as if it's not bad enough to find out your at least #40 in line, boo! If i had known i would never have gotten in that line Lost. she rarely has orgazms and i feel it's because she not getting the youth and variety she is used to. She tells me she doesn't know why because she always did before. HMMM, it's no wonder to me..When you discribe your husband's feelings you are discribing me to a tee. She say's it was her life and she lived it the way she wanted to because she had that right and she is correct. She did have the right to have sex with as many diff guys as she could. She lied about who she was so she decided to take away my right to choose the type of person i was with. That is very selfish. Where did my rights go? But if she would have told me i wouldn't have stayed with her, that is a pretty weak argument. No Da!!<p>[ May 22, 2002: Message edited by: hol ]</p>

I had 10 partners by the time I married at age 24 and my H says he had 10 also. The funny thing is he was shocked when he found out how many men I had been with but thought nothing of the fact that he had been with just as many women. Double standard?? I think so. There have been some shared details between us but I think it's best to keep away from that.