Here's the thing. I would like to move our children out of the public school academy that they are in, that has been struggling and test scores dropping, into the local public school. I know that my ex will have a problem with this. He hates public schools, especially the local one. (My family has ties to it.)

I have primary physical custody and we both have legal custody. If I sign them up for the public school in the fall, what can he do legally?

<small>[ June 03, 2004, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: xpButtercup ]</small>

<small>[ August 05, 2004, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

What could he do? He *could* take you to court and have them returned to the school they were attending.

I moved into a different city (the SAME one he lived in) and two days before school started I was hauled into court and had to drive the kids to the school they were attending IN ANOTHER CITY for six months! (was a 45 min drive each way, and interferred in full time work) -- until I could have the judgement overturned 6 months later! (thus adding to the 42 times in court). Every time I stood in front of the judge, his lawyer would beg for one more week, or two more weeks to prepare.

So-- just another side of *what could happen*. Get your ducks in a row. If the kids want to stay in their old school, you can bet a judge will honor that. Also, if there is proof that the new school is a definate plus for the kids, gather that also. You will need to prove it's a better choice if you do get dragged into court.

OR -- maybe no sweat and the move would be easy sneezy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Ain't divorce grand?

My X is a non-communicator, which benefits me in these areas.
In our state, we have joint legal custody, but I have residential, which means the children attend where I live. I have learned that X will not respond to me with issues such as this.

I would type out a letter to X stating your concerns with your sons schooling (as a good coparent would do). This documents your concerns and also brings it to X's attention if he hadn't noticed it himself. In the letter, discuss the alternatives and any experts you have consulted.
Then say something to the effect of: For son's sake, I would like to move him to public school. If I do not hear from you by x date(usually two weeks), I will move forward with this plan.

I do this with my X and he NEVER responds. So I do what I've suggested, and I have proof of the communication (fax response sheets), and documented proof that I have kept him informed and involved. It's sad that my X is so uninvolved, but it's his choice.

Good luck.

There is no cost difference to me except:

1.) The charter school does not offer bussing. I have to drive them there and pick them up every day. It is about 7 miles one-way from where I live now and about 15 miles one-way from where we will be moving to.

2.) The charter school requires uniforms. I have to buy a specific type of shirt, pants or skirt/skort, shoes, etc. and replace fairly often. I usually buy my own clothes at yard sales or thrift shops.

3.) The charter school's latchkey program is not fully funded by my child care assistance, so I have out-of-pocket expenses that I would not have if they went to the public school's latchkey program.

4.) The kids would also probably receive free or reduced-cost lunches at the public school. The charter school has no lunch program so they bring sack lunches every day. Not cheap.

5.) There is a fairly substantial "supply list" each fall for students at the charter school as well as things that are requested on a monthly basis (snack, kleenex, etc.) that gets pretty steep ... not sure if the public schools demand so much.

Well I guess there IS a financial reason. I only thought of 2 things before I started typing.

My reasoning is there is ONE teacher for each grade level (public school has teams of 3 that work together) and my possibly-ADHD children are set apart as difficult. They have no extracurricular activities or gifted/talented options.

The MEAP (standardized test) scores for the charter school have been dropping, and they don't have to report certain things like the public schools do. The school has been struggling with funding, lots of teachers coming and going, the parent-teacher organization has 'restructured' many times and can't get the board of directors to work with them, etc.

I already plan to collect as much evidence as possible. I just don't know what is within his legal right to do if he decides that he doesn't want them moved.

Oh, the girl (6) is all for it, but the boy (9) doesn't want to change schools. He says there are bullies in the public schools. That is his main arguement. He is very sensitive. They will both have to change to the public school eventually as the charter only goes through 8th, with very few students in the 5-8th classes (they don't fill up). The transition will be easier in the lower grades than at 9th grade. He is starting 4th and she 1st in the fall.

I don't think a straight A student should be bringing home 6 pages of homework in 3rd grade either. 2-3 pages a night for the Kindergartener.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">not sure if the public schools demand so much. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unfortunately, yes the public schools do also - about thirty bucks at the beginning of the year per child, plus continuing expenses throughout the year. And then there was the request for $20 for the end of year teacher gifts - and that was for just one child.

As to homework, my 2nd grader typically gets 2, sometimes 4, worksheets, twenty minutes of reading homework, weekly spelling, a few odds and ends of homework, and often a long term project on top of all that. I particularly loved the one where she was supposed to go out in the dead of winter every night about an hour after her bedtime to look at the phase of the moon (no, we didn't do that). Another daughter was staying up until midnight regularly by seventh grade to do her 4 or more hours of homework. It is actually not as bad in high school as it is in elementary and middle.

<small>[ May 15, 2004, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]</small>

Can anyone help me with a letter to XH explaining my concerns about current school and desire to change schools? I don't want it to look like I'm asking his permission because I'm not ... but I would like it to seem like I am including him so maybe he won't take it like I'm making all the major decisions.

Buttercup - your list of financial reasons is good. Also, the busing situation, is a good point to state. Now for the MEAP test, gifted/talented programs is excellent. Do you know if your schools have AP classes. Advanced placement classes for your children? All in all, you could state the kids would be among children in their neighborhood that go to the same school. Kids could work on projects together. They could invite their friends over to do homework. The field trips, would be with their peers in their neighborhood. Also, the PTO, you could become a member of the school PTO.

Now for music, many bright students are very good in music. My youngest son, now graduating from high school, is gifted as well as his siblings, but he has the extra gift of playing in the symphony band. And the trips they did were awesome. They went to carnegie, to the superbowl in Florida. They played for points in another state and won 5 out of 5 points. The kids have a competition every year to excel in their instrument, and compete against other schools. Just a scoring of 1-5. Five being the highest score. I do believe that there are more social, well-rounded activiites in a public schooling. Just have to make sure the schooling is of excellence.

I would write a letter, stating the situation of getting the kids to school. The financial situation. Lunches provided by the school. Gifted and talented classes. Art, music. Physical education as well as social interaction with their peers of their neighborhood. Having neighbors being available if you are caught at work. The buddy house system.

Outline the pros and cons. And compose into individual paragraphs the point you are trying to get across without sounding like you are pressuring. You can also, state a few cons. Just limit it to 1 or 2 and not highlight them. If there are no cons, then great, move ahead.

With lunches, you wouldn't have to make the lunches the night before or get up early to make their lunches. Which costs you money, to buy the goods at the grocery store. This way you know the kids are getting food at school. Supplies, I know that is difficult with these charter schools. For they don't get the funding for the mundane things. Check that on your list.

I would recommned someone that you know very well, to go through your list with you, and help you arrange a letter, stating that this is what would be better for the kids. Therefore, this is the last year that the kids will be attending Charter School (NAME), and the new school they will be attending is (NAME).

Please, put in the letter, how important education is for OUR children. And that you know very well that HE is as concerned about the childrens education as YOU are. Also, you could have the mailing of school events be mailed to the father too. Many students have 2 addresses that letters from the school are sent to 2 homes.
You could kind of go in the future, to see our child in activites. And we could go to their sports games, music concerts, see their artistic talents grow. This letter needs to stress how important he is to the children too.

Good luck. I do believe you are very much interested in including the dad in all the childrens schooling events and educaiton.

How is your decree worded? I told my attorney that I would not be able to make decisions with x and that I would agree to joint custody only as long as I could make decisions without the two of us having to discuss things. So the decree states that I can make the decisions as long as I inform him, not consult but inform, him of the major decisions.

So, son and daughter are both changing schools this year. He wanted them to go to second or third tier private school. Instead d will be at a top tier public school and s will be at a small parochial school recommended by his psychiatrist and counselor both of whom deal with numerous ADHD children.

ACK!!

I called Friend of the Court and was told by a parenting time advocate that because we have joint legal custody that he would have to AGREE to change schools or I cannot do it. So I don't need his "permission" but unless he agrees to the change, I would have to go to court and file a petition to change schools.

UGH. Some of you "old timers" know what Humperdinck is like. This won't be fun. I am going to put things in motion next week. I will start with a pleasant informational letter about the differences in the available local schools. I just don't want him to focus on all of the benefits to ME of them switching. It isn't about bussing or lunches. It's about 37% passing the MEAP vs. 71%.

Ah yes, it is ALSO about the availability of special education, support and gifted/talented programs. See my new post in EN about Asperger syndrome.

He needs more than a low teacher:student ratio ... if he indeed has AS with possible comorbid ADHD/OCD then he will need daily one-on-one.

Please review and add opinions!!

~~~

May 26, 2004


XH,


I hope you had a chance to look over the information on Asperger Syndrome (AS) that I left there on Sunday. It would seem that L-- matches many of the symptoms of AS; not perfectly, but much more closely than ADHD or OCD. Hopefully we will learn more from Dr. ---- next Thursday.

I am concerned about the lack of special education services available to L-- at IA. I am hopeful that you will consider looking at the other schools available in the district. I have been researching L---- Elementary as well as the other two K-4 schools in E----.

Due to his social development needing daily attention, and social skills becoming more and more necessary in the upper grades, I would like to transfer him to L---- in the fall. L---- has an autistic special needs classroom as well as qualified special education staff, and the resources of E---- Public Schools and ISD.

I am worried that waiting until 9th grade, or even middle school, to transition L-- into public schools will just increase the trauma of the change. I think he needs time to meet and have a chance to make friends with his peers before middle school.

There are smaller class sizes in IA as the grade levels increase (I think only 11 students in the fifth grade) and I know that a lot of parents are leaving IA. I have heard from another parent that J.O. and A.B. are leaving, as well as others. This may lessen the chance of L-- finding and keeping new friends; he has already alienated many of his peers with his lack of social skills. Teachers are also coming and going at an alarming rate, and the parent organization is poorly supported.

One other point of concern is IA’s falling MEAP scores. They are far behind all of the other E---- elementary schools. Check out ses.standardandpoors.com independent school evaluation system. I can get you an extra print-out if you prefer.

L-- has expressed fear and anger about the idea of changing schools, very common reactions for AS children. He continues to play alone at recess and fails to do class work resulting in 2+ hours of homework some nights. I know there are things that I observe that you don’t get the chance to because they are weeknight and before-school routines, so I am trying to relay this information to you. AS is not something you medicate and it goes away. We will need to work together to structure L--’s free time and keep him from becoming absorbed in his fantasy world, as well as teach him the social skills that most children know automatically.

One of the things I will need the most cooperation on is that he should have a strict time limit each day for Pokemon and should be discouraged from even talking about it outside of his scheduled “special interest” time. Also, from reading about AS, he will need to be taught to recognize the facial expressions of others; he does not perceive anger, sadness, joy, etc. in others like most children do. Giving him a “stern look” doesn’t register to him, and sarcasm/metaphors have to be avoided as he is a very literal thinker.

All in all, we have a very special boy, and a lot of work ahead of us. I appreciate your continuing cooperation with co-parenting issues.

I didn't give him the letter. I am going to wait until we return to the doc and ask her about his need for special education services at school. It would help to have someone on my side!

The school is required by law to place children with special needs in the least restrictive environment possible - it sounds unlikely that placement in a classroom of autistic kids would be appropriate. The daughter of a friend of mine, a girl who could not speak due to cerebral palsy, was briefly placed in a classroom with other non-verbal kids, all the rest of whom were autistic, and her mother complained that she very quickly began to pick up autistic-like behaviors. One of my children's classmates, who has severe enough problems that a casual observer would probably recognize that he is autistic within minutes is mainstreamed with a one-on-one.

Please be careful about having your boy labeled too quickly with Asperger's. Asperger's, along with NLD, seem to be the learning disabilities du jour. When my youngest, who has auditory processing and language issues, was a preschooler, the school suggested that she might be autistic on the basis of her echolalia. Years later, her audiologist mentioned that one of the good coping skills that she had developed was repeating instructions to make sure she heard correctly. The audiologist confirmed that the supposed echolalia (which had disappeared as she got older) was actually a coping skill.

Almost all of the symptoms of Asperger's are not unique to that particular disability. Some of them are also present in children with Auditory Processing Disorder or with a variety of other learning disabilities, including ADD and NLD. Emotional maturity is not related to cognitive maturity, and I have known a number of very highly intelligent children whose social skills lag those of their peers.

The public school environment is very difficult for children who do not fit in the box labeled "typical," including for those children who have extremely high intelligence, and especially if they also have a learning disability. My kids have found that it gets better as they get older, and friendships are based less on sports and play and more on conversation and shared interests, even if the shared interests include video games (multiplayer RPG's with people they know in real life is a social activity - and it's a lot better than hanging out at the corner store). Would your son be interested in a Lego Robotics Team, which are available in many places?

I am finding a lot of non-AS behaviors as I look very critically at how he acts and reacts. We had a big headbutting over cereal this morning. The "policy" is, no more than two boxes of cereal open at a time. You finish one before you open another. He was arguing that we had three open before, didn't want either of the open cereals and wanted to open a new one, and I stood my ground. Yesterday he went without breakfast rather than eat what was available. Today, he was talking his sister into finishing the box that was almost empty, just so HE could open the kind he wanted. Being manipulative is something I've read AS children are not capable of. I told him if he didn't eat one of the cereals that was open, there would be consequences that he would not like. He begrudgingly ate. Making gagging noises and groaning if I was in earshot.

Also with jokes... he might not always understand a metaphor, but he is keen on joke telling and seems to "get" them just fine. I was pointing out to Westley the assorted plants the children were growing from seed in an egg carton, and one of the plants (from a bean) was 5x taller than the others, and Westley said "Where's Jack?" My son got that joke immediately. Another completely atypical response for an AS kid. So... where does that leave us... I don't suppose he could have some of the symptoms full-blown and some not apparent at all. It's the same with the ADHD, he displays many of the key signs, but others not in the least.

I don't need a "label" for it so much as I need to know how to help him, and have the patience to do so. The frustration level for us all is peaked and there is way too much yelling at home.

Xbuttercup - my oldest daughter has auditory processing problems also as well as language problems - these were not detected until she was in fourth grade and I will say now finishing 8th grade she made the honor roll for the first time and she is entering a technical high school next year -- and as time has gone on - she has really started to understand things more... She was core evaluated in 4th grade and was found to have a reading level of a 1st grader - but we came from a school district that if you spoke english you were doing great.. So she qualified for an IEP - which is an individual education plan - Which meant she was in an "inclusion room" - less students and more teachers - there were - A'students in the class and they were encouraged to help their peers who were having troubles - therefore the student who was slower - never felt like they were different... And then they also had extreme cases in the class that someone might be in a wheelchair or have some sort of down syndrome lets say - but they were all mainstreamed. When she was younger it was a constant battle for homework - I mean bad - alot of yelling -- but once I accepted that ok she isn't going to be an A student she is gonna struggle - but she is trying her best.. So when for instance report cards come home I go right to the effort - and conduct first - because as for the grade well I know that she tried her best - and once she felt pressure from me lift off - she started doing better - until recently I had her tutored once a week - and this woman a teacher would help her with her big projects - encourage because well she was a teacher and I was only her mother - I didn't know what I was talking about.. So it really will get better with time - if he ends up getting the right help...So I would suggest that he be core evaluated through the school and actually your doctor can also schedule testing also - good luck...And as for standardized testing I think you were talking about those scores and stuff - well my child has never come close to once getting any kind of good grade because she absolutely panics - but I have found out that though her levels are low - they are still passing as far as the country is concerned.. So good luck....

Well, I heard back from the special education director, and the only way they will help him is if the 'disability' significantly impairs his academics. Doesn't matter how frustrated and depressed he gets as long as he keeps his A's and B's. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Why do I get the feeling this is going to be a H-U-G-E battle?

Maybe because XH talked at me for 20 minutes last night about how DS is scared to death for school to be out because he hated the day care I sent him to last summer (he's been going there since he was 3, he's 9 now) because he was teased and bullied and says the teacher did nothing about the namecalling and pushing and told him not to be a 'tattletale' or 'crybaby' ... so now XH is threatening to take legal action to get DS out of the day care center we've always used if it happens again this year ... uuuuuuuugh.

XH and I have a meeting with DS's psychologist today to discuss her findings. Could be ADHD, AS, a combination or something else altogether.

Assuming he is going to need special services from his school (something he has not gotten ALL YEAR LONG at his current school) I want to bring up during this meeting, the idea of changing schools, to get her input and hopefully support. But after his veiled threat to take court action against me keeping DS in the same day care that he dislikes, I am worried that XH will pull out all the stops to make it hard for me to change the kids' schools.

I need some advice and encouragement! I DON'T need a panic attack today!

xbuttercup-- do not panic... just do what is in the best interest of your child - do not let him make it a power struggle between you and him....good luck...