This could get really long so I am going to try to summarize things.<p>My family and I have had issues since I was married to John, I see now that my mother and grandfather saw through Johns act of being the "nice guy" way before I did, the told they were worried (which made me angry)one day my mom called out of concern for me (after she had seen an oprah show on domestic abuse) and asked if John ever abused me to which I said NO and got very angry things went downhill fast, I accused them of trying to ruin my marriage and told them not to talk to me anymore (I know it was a HORRIBLE thing to do, the biggest mistake I have made in my life in fact). I since over the last 6 months have made ammends with them and apologized for being so terrible to them, tehy accepted me with open arms and forgave me even after all the pain I had cause them (this is real love, to take me back after the horrible things I did and said) after talking to my mom about things she told me what had happened 4 years ago when she had asked me about John and revealed that he had said some not so nice things to my Dad and Grandfather when I was out of the house. My grandfather could see through him and knew what kind of person John was from the beggining My Grandfather had always been a good judge of character (I only wish I were able to tell him this, you see he died while all the argueing was going on and the last thing he ever saw of me was my huffy and arrogant attitude, I will never forgive myself for that, but thats a whole other story). To make a long story short, my Mom asked us to come up to her house for Easter, my Grandmother and Uncle and Nephew will be there, they are driving for 12 hours to get there, so I told her I would talk to John and that I would really like to come. I told John that we had been invited up and I really wanted to go, we always spend holidays with his family and since I am getting along with my parents again this would be a good way to make ammends, not to mention I wouldl ike to see my Grandmother, because I have only seen her 2 other times in the last 5 years. His response to me was "No, we agreed we arent going up to your parents house again (yet another mistake I made trying to make him happy, I do this way to often agree to his ideas to shut him up and stay out of trouble), if your grandmother wants to visit she can come to our house." (our house is a 2 hour drive from my parents)I said "Well I think if they are driving 12 hours to come visit its not too much to ask of us to drive 2 hours to go see them, I want to go and I will go while she is up, with or without you." HE got angry and said "I am not going to turn my back on my family on Easter when they have always been there for me, you can go to your moms house if you want but the kids arent going." so I said "Fine, keep in mind MAtthew (our youngest) is still nursing, what are you going to do when he wants to nurse? I think I should take him with me and you can take John with you." his response "No we will think of something you arent taking my kids to that house, and you can only stay for 2 hours." I couldnt tak much more so I said "Well, we can talk about it when the time comes, I think Matthew will come with me and John can go with you, but I dont want to discuss it any more tonight." He said "I am really starting to enjoy being at work more than being at home." I said "Good, I like it better when you are at work too." <p>
That was two nights ago, neither of us have brought up the subject again, butr the more I think oabout it the more I think I made a mistake in telling him he could take either child, my grandmother only comes to visit once or twice a year and she needs to see her great grandchildren, my husbands family all live within a 10 mile radius and visit whenever they want. So what I am wondering is am I justified in saying, I am going and the kids are coming with me, yes I made the agreement to not go up there again but it was a mistake (I am very wishy washy as of late, because I am still trying to grow a backbone and it takes some work). SO I am asking for your help on this one, should I (a just go up to visit my family alone and leave both kids here with Daddy on Easter? (I really dont want to leave my kids on a holiday) (b Go alone but on a day other than Easter and leave the kids with him (my Grandmother will be visiting for 5 days) (c Go on Easter and take both kids? (d Go on Easter and take only my youngest son who is still nursing? (e Go one a day other than Easter while H is at work, take the kids and just not tell him until I get home.<p>Thanks in advance for your help, I hope this makes at least a litle sense [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Tara

Hey kid, it's me again. Did you at least check that site I posted? Umm....since you have gotten yourself in a pickle here...I did read and understand how and what happened in the past. You are right. Your family loves you very much and are now probably very happy and relieved that you are back on speaking terms with them. As far as Grandfather, say a prayer and ask YOUR guardian angel to help you relay your sadness at not having 'closed' the issue with him. And while you're at it, ask your angel to watch over you and give you strength. (I am not overly religious, but I DO believe we all have our GAs). Since H sounds very controlling...may I ask? How does he act around HIS family? And how does his family feel and act towards YOU? I agree that requesting your Grandmother to come to you is not reasonable. She is traveling far enough as it is to come to YOU....remember, your H is not going to cooperate. Here is a suggestion. Why could you not ask YOUR relatives to perhaps have dinner at a different time than H's relatives? H does not have to go with you to your family's home, but make an agreement that you (yes, I know it will be hard) are allowed to say--take the kids with you at 7:00 in the morning...but you will be home by say 3:00 that afternoon, and then go over to his family's house. That way you BOTH get what you want. Maybe you could suggest he go fishing or bowling while you are gone, and enjoy some peace and quiet by himself. (as I said, yes, I know it will be hard on YOU, but it is a COMPROMISE...just get plenty of rest the day before). Then when you come home (and keep your part of the agreement...be on time...) you can go as a family to his holiday dinner. There is no point in trying to 'win' at this time. It will be too exhausting emotionally for you. I truly believe I would try this kind of approach for right now...until you can start gaining strength. I would suggest counseling, but I can almost hear his answer: NO I don't need counseling. (Do you have health insurance that would cover counseling? Husband might object to you going, but can he really STOP you? Tell him YOU need counseling...with or without him). And remember, your family kind of saw the 'light' before you did, and I am sure if you talked to your mom about the compromise, she would be happy to help you out. She is your MOM. Just ask her not to harangue you about H. Tell her you are trying to help yourself and you need her support. Just a suggestion. and again, PLEASE go back to the posts from yesterday and read that site. Don't throw the stuff you read in your H's face. Just use it FOR YOU!!!!! CLK-K

oops. missed the one about Grandmother being here for 5 days. If he gets too nasty about Easter, then take the kids another day, but don't hide where you are going. Don't give him ammunition to hit you with (you LIED to me). And if you do go this other day than the holiday, if you can get the kids to take a nap or something, sit down and quietly discuss what is going on in your life. Grandmother has been around a lot longer than you and probably has some good advice. But again, if the holiday is very important to YOU, then try my former compromise. But don't lie about whereabouts to husband. I think it would just make him nastier and as I said, give him one more thing to 'ding' you with. We have - ALL OF US - made mistakes in our lives. You are just a human, like the rest of the world. I don't know if I will get blasted for this, but I am going to post a prayer...say it 8 times a day for 8 days...and then send a little thank you note into your local newspaper. He is St. Jude, Saint of the Impossible. Prayer: May the Sacred Heart of Jesus be adored, glorified and praised about the world now and forever. Sacred Heart of Jesus, pray for us. St. Jude, worker of miracles, pray for us. CLK-K

Thanks for the suggestions CLK, I did read that website along with a few others, unfortunatly for me he meets the criteris for an abuser, in all of the signs listed except for two so its like 28 out of 30 that he fits into, not a good sign (grrr)I think your idea about me going in the morning and being back in time for his family dinner is a good idea but I know he wont accept that, he has told me the kids "are NEVER going to your parents house again" he says its a "safety" issue (the term he uses to manipulate because in the past if he has told me I am endangering the kids I always have listened) its all a lie though, my parents house is not a $300,000.00 house like all of his families houses are but its safe, there are definate problems with it but nothing safety wise, he says "its going to fall down the hill" because it was build on a hill and has wooden beams for a foundation but my parents just this year redid the whole foundation, so thats not holding any water with me.....anyway I know he will say the kids cant come regardless of when I go, I think my only options are either going alone or getting in a HUGE arguement to take them with me (and it will be a huge arguement regardless of what day I decide to go) he just doesnt want them going to visit my parents period, it doesnt matter how I present it...its definatly a control issue and I just dont know how to deal with it, like I said I am just now developing a backbone (after 23 years on this earth) and I dont always know how to stick up for myslef, and its hard to know which battles are worth fighting and which ones are worth surrendering, im this one is worth a fight...

As far as Grandfather, say a prayer and ask YOUR guardian angel to help you relay your sadness at not having 'closed' the issue with him. And while you're at it, ask your angel to watch over you and give you strength. (I am not overly religious, but I DO believe we all have our GAs). <p>I have been praying about this alot and it helps, but I still regret that I wasnt there for him and dint work things out while I had the chance.<p>Since H sounds very controlling...may I ask? How does he act around HIS family? And how does his family feel and act towards YOU?
In front of his family he treats me great, which is really annoying, he is only really mean when we are alone, his mom has told me in the past that I need to "stop being a snooty little *****" so I guess you can see whose side she is on.<p>I would suggest counseling, but I can almost hear his answer: NO I don't need counseling. (Do you have health insurance that would cover counseling? Husband might object to you going, but can he really STOP you?
He has actually agreed to go to counseling but insurance does not cover it and we are so financially strapped right now (I am in charge of bills, dont get me started on that, let me just say its not because I want to be) and we have absolutely no money at least not this month because our duplex is not currently rented out and we are swinging the whole mortgage, I am hoping to schedule something for next month, he isists that counseling wont help but he is going to go because thats a bargian we made the day I almost left, I told him I would stay on one stipulation that he would go to counseling, so now I just have to find the money for it.

Aw crud. He is making me angry, and I don't even know him. My family home (upstate NY) was over 100 years old and had a staircase in it like a straight down ski jump...and all us kids survived. As a matter of fact, we became adept at jumping the last part of the stairs by hanging on to the ledge above <this is to make you smile>. Ya know, until you get a stronger grip on things, you aren't going to "fight him off". He sounds like he's been in control for quite awhile now, so you cannot expect him to relinquish that control easily. You did not say how his family is towards you. IF and I say IF, you go without the kids for a few hours....and then show up at the his family's home, will he have bad-mouthed you or implied you are not being a good mother? Maybe I'm wrong, and I wish someone else would jump in here, but I think YOU need to see your family. They are going to be part of your "backbone". Explain to them why the babies are not with you, and that you need their love and support so that the next time you WILL have the babies with you. Give your family a chance to support you. You need them. Don't let this thing become a "pissing" contest. Your H will most probably be angry that YOU are going WITHOUT the kids, but he hasn't really given you much of a choice. It is a shame you Grandmother won't be able to see them, but unless you start building a support system now (with them and her) - they probably won't see your babies for many years. You are young, but you are SMARTENING UP FAST. I am so glad you read the sites. I gather you are breastfeeding. I personally didn't, but I know women who did and used to pump the milk for bottle usage when they could not be at home. So, can YOU go to your family for a few hours and then to his family home afterwards? You have got to get some support. This situation sounds like it is going to be tough. CLK-K

Didn't see your second post until I had posted back. OK-so this guy is one of "those". Mr. Wonderful around everyone but you. sneaky. Yeah, and remember, his mother is HIS MOM, and she is going to side with him. I understand the "poor" thing too....not enough money (yes, I was young once too). Do you have a family physician? Is it someone you like? (trying to figure out how to get you through the insurance loop). The way my insurance works is through referral. umm.... I am in the state of Florida. My daughter has been in a lousy situation (he actually HIT her) - and there are some agencies that might be of low or no cost. In this area it is called "Circles of Care". There has GOT to be something! (Will someone out there PLEASE jump in if they know of anything like this???) But first and foremost, go get your family's support. They need to understand what is going on and what you are trying to do. You need a safety net. And remember, this is not only for you. It is for your kids. Desperate times call for desperate measures...... you aren't there yet, but by the sound of it, if you really want to ..... wait a minute....I am not overly familiar with this board, but are there any areas out here that you can get to as far as counseling?? I'll look. You look too. CLK-K

Thank you somuch CLK, I really appriciate your caring [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I am checking out the websites you posted at the moment, thanks for being there *hug*<p>Tara

Other sources:
Someone posted an Emotional Abuse Article a while ago
I also finished reading the Verbally Abusive Relationship. These might help you understand.
I'm looking for more suggestions of books to read too.

Tara and Newly, Maybe you can both help each other (I am ASSuming Newly has some problems also). Keep in touch Tara and let me know how you are doing. I am concerned about you. CLK-K