It has now been about 4 years post d-day"s

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#4........
#49+

It has been about 2 years since ex moved out and almost a year officially divorced.

In many areas I have moved on and many people have noticed the dramatic change in me, my health, mental attitude, spiritual, etc..

I am in school full time as well as working full time. I am raising 4 fine young adults without any moral or spiritual guidance from their dad.

I have a nice guy that I have been seeing. He even has a normal family LOL, who seem to enjoy having me as part of their family activities.

Why do I still feel so broken? Why do I still feel as though I am married. I feel like I am sneaking around when I go to visit him, or when he comes to visit me, I cringe at the thought of my ex appearing here.

Actually, I just cringe at the thought of ex coming here whether my friend is here or not. I guess it is really all related to the abuse I suffered for 28++++++ years.

I was in therapy for quite some time, and therapist actually felt that I didnt need to see her on a regular basis anymore. I know I am suffering from PTSD, but I dont know when it will end. Will it ever?

Ex was here on Sat, helping my 2 boys with the lawn work. I feel it is an intrusion. This is my house now. Outright mine by the divorce decree. Am I a B^%ch because I dont want him to help my boys on my property. They didnt ask him for his help.

PLUS HE BLEW GRASS IN MY FISHPOND WITH THE WEEDWACKER!!!

I just feel like I wont ever be free from him until he is dead, and I feel like crap for feeling that way.

If someone abused our daughter they way he abused me, he would be after them with a meat cleaver or a gun at the least. AND HE WOULD NEVER want that person on the same property as my daughter. He doesnt see himself in the same light. He thinks I should be grateful that he gave up time with his new family to do whatever.

Im not going to do the restraining order thing unless he threatens me again, but I feel like a prisoner in my home. I cringe when I come home from work and I dont relax until I see that his car is not in my driveway. When he was here doing lawnwork on Sat, I felt locked in my home.

I dont care if he stops to see whatever children want to see him. Really, only youngest (16 YO son) wants to see him, the others he is sort of pressuring. If daughter is caught at home and doesnt want to see him, he will just walk upstairs and go to her bedroom, so she feels sometimes imprisoned in her own house. I am trying as much as possible to let them sort out their own way with him, but I also feel protective when I find out she was upset by him just walking in and attempting conversation that she doesnt want.

Sorry, this is long, maybe I just need to rant. I have been thru this with you guys before, I just am so depressed over all of this. Its just one area that I dont feel I have control over in my life. Maybe the last step before I can completely heal.

And maybe I just need to reach inside and find some forgiveness, but I cant do that. I also dont feel like I can forgive someone who neither wants forgiveness, or even feels has done anything to warrant forgiveness.

Dawn

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: sunrise1 ]</small>

Yes, you will feel whole again. But, given how long you were married and how damaged you became, it will take longer than this.

But you will not ever be scar-free. And the whole person you will become is different from the person you used to be.

How long will it take? I don't know. What changes will you see in yourself? I don't know.

I think I am now a whole person. But I know I have scars. But look at a great piece of leather or a great piece of fabric. There may still be imperfections. But that is part of the beauty of the material.

As for the x? Is he coming in through unlocked doors? Do you need to change the locks? Do you need to talk with the children about your needs and your boundaries?

The last time my d let her dad in the house, I blew a gasket. Because I felt invaded. She was only 13. She didn't think about me. She was being hospitable. But I had a panic reaction. I knew what his reaction would be. And it happened. But I explained that his not being allowed in was my issue - not a major mistake on her part. That I would NEVER go into his residence without him being home - unless there was an emergency concerning one of my children. That I expected there to be as much respect for my residence especially as he has had no ownership of in for 4 or 5 years.

So, recognize it as your issue. Talk to your children and ask them to respect your boundaries. At least that is what I did.

((((((Dawn))))))

Remember how far you've come, not how far you feel you need to go.
Also, remember to count your blessings, every day. This helps keep the focus on the positive.

If you still feel bad, then perhaps you need more counseling, despite what the counselor said. Trust your intuition about this. This is your life and your emotional health.

Good Luck.

Sunrise,

I did EMDR therapy, it was meant to work on PTSD type feelings. I really feel it has helped me get over past abuse more then regular talk therapy ever did. Maybe you could consider trying it for a few sessions and see how you feel about it.

I think feeling whole again is a common "feeling" for people who were committed to long term marriages that failed. I don't know that it is particularly about the dysfunctional relationship(I suppose by definition, mostly all 20+ marriages that fail were probably dysfunctional for one reason or another). More about long term habitual emotional habits, expectations. Divorce is intially just a piece of paper, nothing changes emotionally. If one is a reasonably trustworthy/committed type of individual, then for a time, "dating" or considering oneself available for other relationships is gonna feel deceptive and dishonest...the key word is "feel", your brain knows you are can make a choice to "date" but your feelings do not...yet. IMO it is pretty much about time, it takes time for people to change, and that includes realigning ones "feelings" with ones reality. That speaks well about you sunrise, you take relationships seriously, and your emotions relect that characteristic. If you throw into the mix a serious history of "abusive" interactions (and I am unclear as to your specifics) then that just muddies up the waters some as you try to unravel your own issues with boundary setting. Humans are pretty resisilient, and the abuse would have to be really bad for it to have any permanent effect on you, IMO this is often an overempasized factor....when the truth is more akin to a rocky marriage (with both contributing), and poor boundary setting skills, things that can be successfully corrected, as it seems you have done.

What to do? IMO recognize that your feelings are normal, and healthy...and exercise rational oversight over them. That means even if it "feels" like sneaking about, do not conceal your new relationship.... "choose" actions that are consistent with leading your own chosen life. That is part of how you rewire your emotional responses, which will mitigate your depression as well. For example, a big fear seems to be your exH becoming aware of your current friend. Well, you are doing nothing wrong (I assume your friend is "free" and not spoken for elsewhere), so do not hide him. If he is over to your home, and your exh stops by unannounced, tell him the time is inconveinient and you need him to leave. Or better yet, tell him you have a friend, and to please stop coming over unannounced as this makes you feel anxious and uncomfortable...noting (if there is disagreement) that such feelings are normal for people in your circumstances. That puts the ball in his court, and if he is aggressive/uncooperative you can take appropriate actions...those are his natural consequences. Note, you are not denying him access to his kids, or even limiting him to times etc. you are simply setting a boundary of notification. This sort of thing is good for you, and clarifies stuff.

It is difficult when one parent lives with older kids, they have a right to have people over or be visited by the other parent (male or female) without some dictatorial oversight by the livein parent, unless you intend to require "approval" of everyone that comes over...which of course means uou have problems. It may seem unfair, that one parent has to "see" the exspouse, but you decided to have kids with them, so you just have to deal with it. I am sure if the kids lived with your exh, and you were ridgidly controlled in this way, you would not like it. This of course assumes the exspouse behaves well, does not use an excuse of visiting kids as a strategem to mess with their ex, and is a "responsible" visitor (not disruptive, polite, etc.). I also don't think your exh should impose himself on the kids who do not want to visit with him...you indicated he actually is not wanted as a visitor at the property, if that is true, then you and your older children need to hash this out some, they need to learn about setting boundaries too, and IMO it is ok for you to help with that.

Probably what would be best is some counselling sessions with a 3rd party, and the family to hash out this "visitation" issue. Perhaps in your circumstance, since there seems to be a lot of friction with older kids, there needs to be a phone call and more formal arrangements regard visiting/talking/hanging out...and this may help your exh as well, who seems to want some kind of relationship, so is a good thing.

As for helping out on the property. I dunno sunrise, who knows what his motivations are, but if they are genuine, and he is trying to be a "good" person to you the only ways he knows how, then that seems of some value. But regardless, this is clear. It is your property, and whatever is done (or not) to it, is absolutely your call. This should be communicated, and enforced if ignored I guess. But first (if possible) sorting out his motivations might alleviate uneeded conflict and misunderstanding on both your parts. If on the other hand, it is just a pattern of messing with you any way he can to "impose" himself on you, then you need to standup to that (again to rewire your emotions) and not allow him to mess with you...develop new habituations, so to speak.

Re the forgiveness thing...well, that gets a lot of press in relationships, but is another overused concept IMO. Unless someone has deliberately targeted you with malicious intent, I don't think forgiveness works very well (no point to it, except to let go of your own anger, which one should do anyways). What works is understanding human psychology, and why each of us does what we do, most of the time that will reveal what happened, and why, and what to do about it. People pretty much always do what they want (you do, I do, we all do), and sometimes that impacts someone else, and creates conflict and unhappiness, when choices and expectations don't match up...so you sort it out, and continue your life. Just live your life sunrise, do what sunrise wants, and your emotions will catch up with you, if you make bad choices, the unpleasant consquences will "encourage" you to reevaluate your "wants"...if the outcomes enrich your life, then your wants are healthy...but if you don't make choices, stay stuck, reactive (and not proactive) you risk chronic depression.... change is an anxious process, as it must be, but if you persevere, you will get through it, and time will "heal" the wounds.....seek understanding sunrise, and treat your exh as extended family, that is the status of exspouses with kids to each other...if in fact he is a dangerous unhealthy individual, then do what you need to do to keep him away...but if not, just let the past go, you don't have to "feel" uncomfortable around him, and when you realize that, you will be ok....he may have the same feelings too, maybe you need to hash that out a bit, so you can both let it go.

<small>[ May 19, 2004, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

Cinderella, thanks. Ex is, as far as I know only coming in when someone is at home. Locks were changed quite awhile ago.

Usually now he calls first, but I think sometimes he just stops if he thinks someone is home bust isnt answering phone. I will have another talk with them about their responsibiity for helping out around here so they are clear that I dont want heim here. And this was on Sat, my day off, I wanted to work in my yard at my leisure, not that he was here for 3 hours.

LOL, is there a cosmetic surgeon to remove these scars?

Newly, I wish I could meet with you guys Sat, but right now I dont think I can make it. I have a baby shower fri nite, and a suprise BD party to help out with on Sunday. I am still going to try, if I get everything done. What area do you live in anyway?

I cant bear the thought of going back to counseling. It took too much out of me, not to mention the time factor

Lora, thanks for your input. What is that therapy you mentioned. I never heard of that, but I dont think it is something that my health insurance covers.

SUFDB,
I cant treat ex as extended family. Abusive was extensive, a coule of trips to the hosp sprinkled throughout the 26+ years, really for minor injuries, but caused by his violence.

Once he twisted my arm badly and I needed to have it xrayed. He threw me out of the car in the rain on a busy highway about 1/4 mile from the hospital.

One of the abuses right before everthing unraveled was rape. Of course he was drunk, but that doesnt make it any less than it was.

When love songs came on the radio that were on CD's that OW gave him, and he knew these upset me (this was even while we were in marriage counseling, and telling everyone he was trying his best), Instead of changing the station, he would turn up the volume, and tell me how he loved this song, and laugh when I would become upset. Frequently he would whistle these songs around me.

he last time I tried to have a civil conversation with him, he accused me of stalling the divorce (I wasnt, his lawyer was taking long to respond to my lawyer)because I was living "high on the hog" since he left and I was never anything but a "fat f*&k", he is the one who has put on about 50 lbs since leaving, and I certainly didnt deserve any of the treatment he gave me, let alone to be called such a derogatory name in front of our 19 YO daughetr no less. That was then and there that I decided to end all kind of communication with him. I dont want to see him, talk to him or have him in my home.

A couple of times he was here he rough housed with my (large)dog and my dog in playing back accidently scratched him. He kicked my dog very hard,making him yelp and limp for a day. I called him and laid out the boundaries for his visits, but of course, his type follows no laws..narcistic to the letter, with the oppositional defiant disorder during his youth.

It has only the last 5 years or so that all the layers started to shed. It was 5 years ago that I found out that his favorite youth pastime was spinning peoples pet cats around and flinging them into walls. This was a at time that I would go around rescuing every cat, dog, frog and snail that needed help. I feel that he totally invalidated my life. PEOPLES PETS!!! I would rescue, and couple of towns over, he would kill.

Yes, I would say he is sick. Do you see why I cant bear to look at him, let alone let him in my home.

I guess I feel more like I dont want him to know of my friend, because it is one more thing that I dont want him to dirty. For him to make snide remarks about this or that to the kids. What he looks like or what he does for a living or his family (he is not a cop, but many in his family are, and he hates cops) or really anything.

It is my life now and I am being overprotective of my privacy.

Sorry this is so long. I could write a novel on this subject, but I need to go smile.

BTW....my friend and I rescued 10 orphaned baby ducklings today. I think Ill check on them before bed time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dawn, I really relate to the PTSD feelings, though my H wasn't as physically violent as yours. Mine mostly used threats (that he was going to kill me), intimidation (smashing furniture, throwing plants, ripping down curtains, etc. while screaming and threatening), and verbal and emotional abuse. He's also an addict/alcoholic with, what I think are narcissistic tendencies as well (though these may just be the result of the substance abuse).

I don't think people who haven't been through it can really understand the panic and revulsion we feel. We know it's irrational on some level, but it's a physical, gut-wrenching sensation. In the past, when I was numb to the abuse, it was the opposite. People were always telling me that I should be afraid of him and I wasn't. Since being separated for 3.5 years and without contact for 2, I am much more sensitive to those feelings. I believe this is a GOOD thing, a waking up to reality.

Please feel that you have the right to take care of yourself because it sounds like he'll push you as far as he can. Your kids can visit with him elsewhere, and since only your youngest son really wants to see him, you'll be teaching the others how to set boundaries for themselves in the face of manipulative and intrusive, if not outright abusive, behavior -- a very good lesson that we could have used ourselves!

Forgiving does not mean forgetting. Forgiveness is letting go of the past. It does not mean allowing the same kind of behavior to continue in the future, or even giving the perpetrator a second chance. What has your ex done to show he's changed? Sounds like nothing to me. If he changes, and makes amends to you, then you might consider relaxing your boundaries, but doing it now is just inviting more of the same.

Finally, I'd suggest a different therapist. EMDR, that Lora suggested, may be covered by insurance as it is a technique practiced by many therapists. It has to do with eye movements and makes no logical sense, but is supposed to work well on PTSD. I haven't tried it myself, but I've been in therapy for several years with a therapist well versed in 12-step philosophy. I've been attending Al-Anon regularly since my H moved out and it has helped tremendously as well.

Good luck to you.

Sunrise---I, too, had been married to an alcoholic and I gave til it hurt but I have discovered a book that is giving me strength and hope. Unlike your XH, my WH is not violent but I gave myself too much and had no boundaries.

The book I speak of is Women Who Love Too Muchby R Norwood. It is mind boggling what we will do as a co-addict. I agree with LetStry---Alanon is a place you will learn boundaries and what buttons your XH pushes. Learn all you can so that you can give your children something to protect them from future relationships that are all take, take take and give nothing.

TW

LetsTry Thanks. I know you know how I feel. When I first started therapy I beat myself up so much.

When I "awoke"

I couldnt believe what I had put up with. And I for sure will not let this happen ever again, by him or anyone else.

I have been having a hard time at work also. I have to deal with alot of nasty customers. and sometimes, tey are controlling and abusive. It is hard to stand up for yourself in the retail situation without being fired, but at least I recognize exactly what it is now and I do what I can without lowering myself in tought, actions or self esteem (and without getting fired)

Tossed wave. I will check out that book. I had been attending al-anon. I have a good group in next town that I go to. I havent been able to attend because of school work. I am also trying to get my daughter to attend. They have a great teen group and if she goes, she is hoping her bro will get the courage to go.


I would like the kids to see him elsewhere, and the older ones have been meeting him at grandmothers (reluctantly) but my youngest doesnt drive and ex works 2 jobs so he stops here between jobs.

I dont like my son getting in ex's car not knowing if he is high or has been drinking. We all know how well the addict can hide his addictions. My therapist said I have to train him to watch for signs and trust that he will learn that skill. He has to learn that skill with his friends..part of growing up. Just its not normal to have to train him to watch for his father's sobriety, the person who should be doing everything to protect son, but instead son has to learn how to protect himself from his father <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

EMDR=Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprogramming (or something like that) doesn't require a special therapist but is a technique used by some reputable therapists. I did it for a PTSD challenge relating to a hot air balloon crash I was in. Did it years after the fact and am, honestly, less anxious in elevators now than before and for dealing with an instance of abuse. Seems to have helped that, too. It was done by the therapist I was seeing at the time. And there were no issues raised by the insurance co. I think they billed it as a regular session.

Sunrise - it takes time hon. There are many scars that will never go away entirely. Scars leaves marks and reminders. I have been told this by two counselors so far. They said the pain will be less in time, but will never completely disappear. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Not feeling good about yourself or whole again. Is another issue. Your not feeling good about yourself comes from within as you well know. Could be the issues of a controlling spouse, could be issues of the physical abuse, could be issues of just poor self-esteem. I don't feel good about myself at times, cause the flashbacks come back about how I was told I was not a good person by my mother, my brother, and from my ex. Just like when my ex compared my sexual anatomy to the other womans anatomy and how she was much superior. These are all issues of low self-esteem. I know why the other woman affects me so, cause she called here and manipulated and coerced me on the phone to me with suicide. I am still dealing with how I let a mentally screwed person do this to me. And I fell for her scheme.

I am told that there will be a time, for myself that when I think of how my ex told me to go to my gyn to have my sexual anatomy checked out, I will beable to say to myself, you are a wonderful woman with all the attributes of a sexually beautiful woman. Right now, I don't think of myself as sexually attractive cause my ex basically told me that I was not adequate compared to the other woman. My ex has left this scar, and it hurts deeply. He tells me that he said the wrong words, that he just was wondering why I was the way I was and it is the way he is. And he doesn't see where I should be affected by this. I did tell him to ask the other woman what she would think if he were to tell her she is inadequate in that department.

PTSD, is a source of good counseling. Affairs, accidents, stressful environmental hazards, all have outcomes of PTSD. The men who come back from war, experience these setbacks. I know that when the other woman comes into my mind, I have these setbacks. Cause my ex did what she suggested at the time. Like visiting me at the hospital when my father was very ill and dying. He told me that the other woman told him to go to the hospital.

One day, we will feel whole again. Just takes time and the determination to make ourselves a better person. We will never get rid of the scars, hate to say they will always be there. I have asked how to rid the scars or make them less visible. Time is always the answer. It could take 2 years, it could take 10 years or longer. I know of a guy that was on the front line in Vietnam war. He said for 4 1/2 years he had a hard time with noises after the war that were exploding noises, and couldn't go to a movie with war and death. Now he has a setback maybe 1 or 2 times a year. He is able to see a movie of war, he has some difficult time, but is able to handle it. In the beginning it is like a trigger and he exploded. That is what being on the front line did to him, and he signed up for 2 rounds. I had a cousin that fought on the front line. His wife told me about his setbacks. He was taking medication for awhile, and was able to handle it. But he was set off about 1 or 2 times a year. This is quite common for the men of war. Each individual person has their own time. My counselors told me that my time will take awhile. Since I was dealing with the deceit and lies of my ex during his affair, and I was dealing with my fathers illness and eventually dying 1 1/2 years later. I really didn't have a husband to rely on for the loss of my father. He was there, but emotionally he was not totally there for me. He spent many of his hours here on MB talking about marriage. And he spent many hours talking on the phone with the other woman while I was spending many hours with my mother and my father at the hospital and at home.

You are fortunate that you have a caring boyfriend. You have made a step that you care about someone, and that you have allowed yourself to be with a good man. That is the first step. I am not there yet. I don't feel I can trust men yet. You are there, and you seem to trust the man. With your statement that you feel you are married to your ex. We who did commit ourselves to our husbands, have those feelings, and will have those feelings for a long time. I still don't want to date, for it feels like I am still married, and that I will never beable to be married again. The bible states with adultery and abandonment, that divorce is allowed. But God still hates divorce. Through the Pharisees God allowed divorce. I turthfully will never feel like I am divorced by the vows of marriage. I do live on my own now. I do have my own life now, but after 25 years of marriage it is difficult.

baloon crash??? That must have been so frightening! I have to make trip to library, I was just going to check out the book TW suggested, but Im going to look into this therapy also.

Faith, fortunately I never lost that....The knowledge that all men are not like my ex.

In the middle of all the abuse he would constantly, and I mean CONSTANTLY tell me that I should talk to other women, that I had it good, that I should be grateful that he worked 2 jobs to support my sorry A$$(he had to work 2 jobs to fund his addictions and the fall out from those addictions..DUI, lawyers, insurance surcharges, replacement cell phones and cars etc...)

Funny, only woman he really talked to..OW...claimed she had such bad home life..her ex supposedly beat her, and he felt sorry for her..little did she know what he was doing to me on the side.

The others explained EMDR pretty well. It has to do with reprogaming those painful memories in the brain so that they do not hold so much power and are more just part of the distant past. They no longer have the intensely painful feelings attached to them, and I think it has allowed me to grow a great deal too as I accept my past and move beyond it. I just go to a regular counsler who is trained in EMDR and it is covered by my insurance becasue she is on the plan. It was greuling and painful and draining at times, but I do see positive results that have seemed to last and build on each other more then regular therapy ever did.


Good luck

An aside to sufdb - regarding you comment that the older children are entitled to have their non-residential parent visit with them at the home of the parent with whom they reside - HOGWASH!!!! That home is the home of the parent and they determine who is and is not allowed in the home. At least in my book. Get over it and stay away from your x's home if she told you too. I will not respond to any further comments on the matter because I do not wish to hijack this thread. I just needed to vent.

Dawn, unfortunately time and healing are the only physicians for those terrible scars. But it comes.

I messed up my finances this month. It is not a hole from which I can not climb. But it will take time. Unfortunately.

But in class at church on Sunday - sort of a surrender class based very, very loosely on 12-step principles, I was able to admit that it was all my fault. X leaving and reducing greatly was not the reason my finances were messed up. Don't think I better use that debit card. Made it too easy to not keep records. I would love to be living on what my income would be if x were with me and I had his money. But I am the one who committed the errors. Me and only me.

For me to be able to admit that I was sad and mad ONLY at MYSELF was a wonderful sign that I am still healing.

Wasn't it Chicago who had a song, "Feeling Stronger Everyday"?

Cinderella, sorry about the money issues. I know that feeling. Last month my sewer and my heater broke the same day and it really put me behind alot.

Then I find out that my ex is going on a cruise with his OW and her daughter this week. UGGGGHHHHHHHH

The kids are just as upset as I am...all the time we were married we never had the money to take us on a nice normal vacation. Just tent camping (which I do love) but my kids have always wanted a trip to disney which we never could afford due to all his drinking/pain killer issues.

So, now he has told them about this trip, and here we are again with no money for any kind of vacation this summer. Last summer we had 3 days at my oldest sons rental house at college(summer resort area) and this year we will be lucky if we can afford that.

I have a busy weekend. I wanted to get together in south philly but I dont think I will be able to. Its a bad weekend for that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />