I haven't had an increase in 5.5 years. By law, I could have had one 2.5 years ago but got bad legal advice.

I just told doofus, you know who he is - my not-so-wonderful x, that the time had come for me to request one.

The man may have NPD and he is passive aggressive. This could get interesting, friends.

Hang on and pray I get what the children need. You know, sneakers don't cost what they used to. And second graders don't need what middle schoolers need.

It's been long and tough.

Now it will get ugly - I'm afraid.

(all triggered by him refusing to pay $75/ child for an art camp)

I'm sorry you have to go through this cinderella. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I'm in the middle of dealing with crap like that too, and I know how stressful it is.

It really burns my a$$ how so many deadbeat parents are out there, not thinking about giving THEIR children better things in life.

I know in my case, my stbxH is extremely selfish, and cannot comprehend buying anything for anyone unless is benefits him in the immediate. It's sickening.

I say to you, YOU GO GIRL!!! You go and do what's right for your kids, and let the law throw some moral ground to your ex.... it sounds like he can't seem to get to it on his own. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Karen

Isn't CS regulated by the court system? Can't you just ask to have it looked at? For me it is taken directly from my check, (Michigan law requires it done like that). When ever I get a raise my employer sends the new figures to the state. Same with hers. Then it is adjusted. So far it has only fluxuated a few dollars a year because we both get raises and it offsets any significant differences. Good luck with your quest.

In Tennessee, you don't get one automatically unless you request one and you CS is handled by the system. Ours is not. He has been very good at paying the federal minimum but has paid pitifully little of the medical expenses. I am thinking about putting in the system rather than as an agreed order through our Juvenile Court system so that it will be easier, in the future, to get an increase.

I am not looking forward to dealing with him on this. I'm thinking that, if I do it through the CS system, he can deal with them instead of me. I might be safer that way.

This will not be fun.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by STP:
<strong> Isn't CS regulated by the court system? Can't you just ask to have it looked at? For me it is taken directly from my check, (Michigan law requires it done like that). When ever I get a raise my employer sends the new figures to the state. Same with hers. Then it is adjusted. So far it has only fluxuated a few dollars a year because we both get raises and it offsets any significant differences. Good luck with your quest. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm in Michigan, and I understand that I can request a review (or he can) once every two years and no more than that ... have never heard of it fluctuating according to his/my pay.

If that was the case, I would have had them review it when XH was working a steady factory job and I was making student pay. *G* (Just kidding, I passed up the 2 yr. review because he has been helpful with school-related expenses.) Now I am probably making more than him... maybe. Let's see if he keeps this job past the probationary period. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

It would also affect my manfriend; his daughter's mom had CS reviewed when he was working 50 hour weeks at prevailing wage and she had quit her job ... now she's working, he's laid off and most of his unemployment goes toward a huge CS payment... more than my XH pays for TWO kids. And he can't do a thing about it for another 1-1/2 years.

They will put him in jail if he can't pay. How does that help anyone? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ May 27, 2004, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: xpButtercup ]</small>

He thinks it might be fair to the children! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Seems we have some new law. Don't know what it means.

He even sent me a link to DHS website.

There is something wrong here.

I do not trust him.

Don't tell me to try to do so. Usually everything blows up in my face. I bet this will too.

I do not feel good about what I will find there.

Do NOT!!

I think the biggest problem with CS is that the parent paying usually has a tougher time living off of what is left. I am just seperated and I will give so much I can barley make my lot rent and bills much less eat a meal everyday, and they will have 7 or 8 hundred left over at the end of the month and I have like 50 dollars maybe. The other problem I have is that I can't account for where the money goes, she leaves me, tells me she doesn't love me, takes the kids, has never managed money worth a flip and all of a sudden I am suppose to beleive that she needs more money for the kids, and just the kids?

If I could see a budget and logically understand that every dime of the money I send is not enough to pay for the KIDS needs, then ok lets explore options. I know that in a few cases I have seen with CS the residential spouse usually ends up benefiting personally from CS and gets to save their money. I would say that if you can logically show in a budget where his money is going, and it is important to show where the money you provide for them is going as well, then you would have an easier time getting him to come with some more funds. The argument that was used on me, well I supply the place to live so I dont need to contribute cash that is your job, well my kids are more than welcome to live under my roof anytime and she can pay CS for a family she never gets to see when she wants to. From what I read in your post it is a 1 way street, you and the kids are short on money and it is his job to provide even more, when in reality it is both your jobs to provide more money if needed, equality right. Other than taking him to court to try to get more CS monies what have you done? (not asking just making a point) It would be much easier to get more money from him if you could show him how you have tried to make up for the short fallings in money for the kids,or how you will also help contribute.

Just some things to think about, I know it is really easy to cast judgement from one side, especially if you have never looked at from the other persons point of view. It would be a lot easier for me to cough up more money if I understood where it was short, what you were contributing, what was not being bought, what the extra money was needed for etc..etc.. From a CS paying point of view all we are is pay check that gets to see the kids on occasion (and by demanding money and not showing why, that is exactly the message you send), it is a hard nut for us to swallow, especially if your like me and want to live with them yourself and be a good father. Not trying to cast judgement on you, just letting you see from the other side of the fence and that maybe a rational conversation backed up with budgetary data may help ease the pain for all of you on the issue. I know if someone could do that for me, I would just give you more, no court would need to tell me, I just need to know your not out getting hair do's and buying $300.00 make up kits and paying for 2 cell plans for yourself every month when I am having a tough time eating myself. Yes that was and is an issue with mine so you can understand why I am a little pointed on the issue. It is just easier if we understand what th problem is and saying sneakers aren't cheap wouldn't cut it for me. Sorry if I offended it was not my intent, just giving another point of view.

As one who is facing paying a $1K/month for the privledge to see my daughter every other weekend and at her whim, it's a bit of a sore subject.

Of course my wife is the WW, so I think it's totally unfair that she can file for a D, without working on the marriage, and demand CS and she has the nerve to also ask for Spousal Support.

In my opinion, infidelity SHOULD play a role in custody, yet it doesn't.

So here is yet another POV on the whole CS issue. Money taken from me, and no checks on how my W is using the money.

Yet let a man MISS a CS payment, and there is an finanical electron microscope looking into his finances.

Yeah, I'm a bit bitter over this whole issue.

Tony

STP,
When ever I get a raise my employer sends the new figures to the state. Same with hers. Then it is adjusted.
That is not how it is done.
Any adjustments require a court order (a hearing).
It may be adjusted if the CS order includes cost of living.

Ccooger,
The courts don't have the time to get into the minutia of each expenditure, so each state establishes guidelines. CS is intended to cover the shelter, food and incidental costs for the children when they are with that parent. My state presumes the cost to raise two kids is 25% of the joint income of the parents, allocated by the parenting time. Let's say spouse A makes $25,000 and B makes $75,000, or $100,000 jointly, so the cost to raise the children is $25,000. Child support is sometimes intended to get the parent's net incomes to within 10% of the other. If there is 50/50 custody, then it is presumed that each parent contributes $12,500 of care, which A can't afford on their $25,000 income, so CS is paid to make up the difference. This presumes A contributes 25/100*$25000, or $6,250 / year, and would need 12,500-6250 or 6,250 of CS to make up the difference.
A income of $25,000 + 6,250 = $32,250 cannot compare to B's income of $75,000 - 6,250 =$68,250.
The people who typically complain they don't get enough are the A's scraping by to support their children.
We all know that abuses of CS occur on both parts, but remember, the money should be going for the care of the children, not the X.

CC - expecting to control your X's expenditures is a control issue. Most people can't agree on finances within a M, and it gets worse with a D.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by newly:
<strong> Ccooger,
The courts don't have the time to get into the minutia of each expenditure, so each state establishes guidelines. CS is intended to cover the shelter, food and incidental costs for the children when they are with that parent. My state presumes the cost to raise two kids is 25% of the joint income of the parents, allocated by the parenting time. Let's say spouse A makes $25,000 and B makes $75,000, or $100,000 jointly, so the cost to raise the children is $25,000. Child support is sometimes intended to get the parent's net incomes to within 10% of the other. If there is 50/50 custody, then it is presumed that each parent contributes $12,500 of care, which A can't afford on their $25,000 income, so CS is paid to make up the difference. This presumes A contributes 25/100*$25000, or $6,250 / year, and would need 12,500-6250 or 6,250 of CS to make up the difference.
A income of $25,000 + 6,250 = $32,250 cannot compare to B's income of $75,000 - 6,250 =$68,250.
The people who typically complain they don't get enough are the A's scraping by to support their children.
We all know that abuses of CS occur on both parts, but remember, the money should be going for the care of the children, not the X.

CC - expecting to control your X's expenditures is a control issue. Most people can't agree on finances within a M, and it gets worse with a D. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Newly,

I agree to a point. However, isn't seeking more money from the other non-custodial parent also a control issue?

On one hand, we have one parent who spends money on the child and the non-custodial parent thinks he or she should know how that money is being spent.

On the other hand, we have the custodial parent making a judgement that the non-custodial parent should pay more.

They both are a control issue.

I think it is reasonable, that if you are asking me for money, or even more money, that you should be required to show me what you are spending that money on.

I don't have to agree with you, but in a joint custody arrangement, I should be able to verify that the support I am providing is actually going to the child.

I do think it is naive to think you can split one home into two and all parties continue to enjoy the same standard of living.

So I feel a WS should not be entitled to enjoy the same standard of living. Custodial parent or otherwise.

Tony

I think too many people believe they can or should maintain the same standard of living.
It's just sad to see parent's who can't afford their children's needs, because an X doesn't believe they "deserve" it.

I thank God that I am able to provide a home for my children. I shop at Walmart & Target, and we are not extravagant.
My children deserve to be raised in a decent, healthy environment. This is my responsibility to my children. I would hope this is everyone's.

Here's my perspective:

I was a stay at home mom till the divorce. I strongly believe that a parent in the home deters kids from drugs, alcohol, sex, etc. So, when I divorced I got a job working 8 am to 1 pm, Mon-Fri. I also sew for people, so my minimum income per month is about $800. Added to the child support that my ex, who made $2,000 a month, is supposed to pay of $600 a month, and we can get by just fine.

However, he was angry that I left him because of his abuse and anger and is "punishing" me by quitting his job and calling himself "self employed", and claiming to make barely $800 a month himself.

Guess who suffers? Yes, we have food and medical care thanks to the state. But I'm always behind on my bills, and just had to tell the kids no to a pool pass, even tho we don't have air conditioning. We don't take vacations, or get new clothes, or go out for ball teams.......

It's just not right. And the Child support recovery people cheerfully tell me "but his back support continues to accrue". Big deal, tell that to the kids.

Java
I would agree they are both control issues.

all
I guess every situation is different, but when I give money to the kids for shelter (that she will live in too) food (that she is going to eat too) and incidentals (that she will probably benefit from) etc.. I should have a right to help GOVERN the finicials of my kids. It should be my RIGHT to ensure that the woman that took off and left me alone and took the kids before I knew what was happening, doesn't get a thin dime from the H she hurt and discarded like yesterdays news. She could be using the kids' money to buy her make-up, jewlery and numerous other things. You tell me the state doesn't have the resources to monitor that, but they certainly have the resources to monitor me paying or not, and I love to take care of my kids, I want to, it is my privledge to do so, but she left me and SHOULD NOT benefit off of the kids money. Bottomline is I need to get the kids I guess.

Our household income is 6 figures, and WW makes about 19% of that.

I agree our child is entitled to the standard of living that I earn.

What I don't agree to is that she should get primary custody and continue to enjoy that standard of living while leaving the marriage. This is why I believe that either the spouse paying child support should have more control over how the money he earns is used, or...

The wayward spouse is not given custody of the children.

Of course there are wayward spouses who are primary bread winners as well, but you get the idea.

I really feel like I'm going to get screwed over this simply because my income is higher than hers. Add to that the fact that in IL, infidelity play NO PART in a custody decision, and the general bias that women are better parents than men, and it's no wonder guys feel they get the shaft, even if they are not getting the shaft.

Bottom line is as a parent, I SHOULD have a say over how the money I EARN is spent on OUR child. Awarding MY EARNINGS to an ex-wife without any accountability to me is the ultimate in controlling behavior.

Once she chooses to divorce, my income goes from being OUR income to being MY income. That is the price of choosing divorce, or at least that is how I feel it should be.

Tony

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: javaSansContour ]</small>

To all of you guys who pay child support and the ex spouses think it's never enough. To the ones who are good fathers, I understand and I sympathize with you.

But there are fathers who don't do anything for their children. My ex quit his job when he got served divorce papers and took a job making half his usual salary. Because of that, I get $603 monthly for 3 sons. Well, it was ordered and he pays just enough and often enough so that they can't go after him for his arrearages. He is now back at his old job making twice what his pay was when we got divorced. He asked for no visitation but was awarded the every other weekend standard visitation. Since then he has seen them 10-15 times. (Since December 1999). He lives 10 minutes from us also. Keeps no insurance on the kids, doesn't help with out of pocket medical expenses or anything extra-curricular.(I have 3 sons that play baseball and football). And I never asked for anything else. Only child support. No spousal support. He chose to sign over the house and left me with a car.

Before I remarried, I had no insurance, and 0 extra money. My parents picked up the tab on anything extra for the kids, plus bought their coats and shoes. I had been a stay at home mom for 10 years, and had never had a job.

Now that I'm remarried, my new H has insurance on the boys. WE pay for anything extra. HE has become more of a father to the boys.

In cases like mine, I think the biological father SHOULD pay more child support. There is no other kind of support, so why not? I will be taking him back to court to get the arrearages (arouond $2500), and to get an increase in support. He and his new wife have no children at home (her children are adults). They drive brand new vehicles, have a new pool and go on numerous vacations. Plus they're both active alcoholics and drug addicts. My children deserve more child support.

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

But there are fathers who don't do anything for their children.
And some mothers who do even less than that...

<small>[ June 03, 2004, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Chris -CA123:
<strong> But there are fathers who don't do anything for their children.
And some mothers who do even less than that... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, there are parents that don't do anything for their children.

But as a single parent receiving CS, I must say that I would be very much against having to account for every cent of CS that I receive. My XH is already b*tchy because I own a horse. To him, that means I am spending HIS money on the horse. If they kids want for anything, it's due to my selfishness and greed, NOT because he pays only $75 a week for two kids. When not unemployed, that is.

We don't live extravagantly, but we get by. The kids don't have name brand clothes and *Horrors!* sometimes have to wear something that has been worn or slightly stained! They ARE just 6 and 9 ... accidents actually happen and it really isn't because I'm a bad mom. Kids being hard on their clothes?! The novelty!

They are fed and clothed and sheltered and bathed and educated and disciplined; none of which could ever be to the satifaction of my XH. To have to answer to this man, would be like having my wisdom teeth pulled... every week.

Chris,

I shouldn't have just said "fathers". I understand that mothers do nothing too.

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Let's see. He grosses in excess of $85K. I gross about $26K. I get $1300 per month for the children.

House note $650/m
last year's tuition for one child $4700
last year's school bus for that chile $1000
electricity $140/m
water $35/m
telecommunications $80/mon
homeowner/car insurance $180/mon (never carry minimum req coverage)
food - $300
gas $120/mon
life insurance $60/m
medical/dental ins $120

notice there are no clothes, movies, shoes, vacation, camp, daycare, school activities, or other frills on my list.

And no increase in CS in over 5 years.

And he refused to pay for art camp for either child. Haven't even asked him about band camp. He took son out of karate without agreement with child. And refused to pay any of d's french horn lessons.

I can't tell you last time he paid anything to speech pathologist, psychiatrist, either counselor, dermatologist, pediatrician, or pharmacy bills. Despite court order.

Oh, yeah, he wanted the divorce because he wasn't happy with me after 17 years and he wanted to go out with Sarah at work - she had two small children, was divorced, there was no one there to help her and he felt sorry for her.