I got an email from a counselor and friend that I work with this morning telling me that a couple of coworkers got married over the weekend. It is the second M for both, his D was final a couple of years ago, she left her H to persue a relationship with him. This is sort of a touchy subject for me and probably others here. I wrote back to her that I hope everybody is happy and that hopefully there wasn't too much damage done to her 1st family. Besides being a counselor, she is also an attorney (no longer practicing because she found it to be too depressing), very intelligent, and just an all 'round good person. Here is her response: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> i know her leaving her husband is a sore spot for you but K has not been happy for a couple of years and neither was (her new H). i think all the kids are okay with it since they knew all of the parents were not happy. just like you and as bad as you hate to hear this your ex-wife to be , you both deserve to live your life happy.( okay even my ex, too) one of these days when you discover that you really are happy you will see just how much you were only surviving, not really living. to find someone who you know loves you to the center of their soul will be an experience that you have not had yet. how do i know that for sure??? well, if your ex-wife and you were that for each other you would not be able to stay apart... sometimes we are too far in the forest to see the trees, that my friend is where you are. not that it's your fault anyone divorcing can't see the trees for a while anyway. you are a good man, jeff... i pray for your peace of mind and happiness every morning. i have always prayed each morning for those i work with but since you told us about the divorce i have not failed to pray for you by name. when you break out of the forest, you will feel different than you ever have . a new life is waiting for you. yes, it will be different.. but different is not always bad. okay , i'm off my counselor soapbox </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Made me feel a little better about my unwanted D, maybe it will help some others too.

Well...I'm in a bitter mood of sorts today even though, all in all, I am very happy and content. But I believe that people are mistaken when they do all this talk about "not being happy in this relationship". Happiness does not come from a person. Like I told my wife, she is not happy in this marriage because she believes there is happiness outside of the marriage. That option is there and it's tempting her. If she were to change her thinking, change her thinking from herself and what she could have and direct it towards her family and what she does have she would find happiness. Frankly, I don't see how she can be happy being away from her family.

These people who rely on other people or relationships to make them happy are only later disappointed. They find themselves feeling the same way they did when they left their first spouse. Then they start to realize, "maybe it's me".

I know that I will be happy later because I am happy now.

I'm in sort of a funk too. Something I just read, and can't find again: If my WW put as much effort into our M as she is into her A, we would have been in heaven. I feel the same way only it would only have taken 1/2 the effort..............but then I was unaware we had a problem before she moved out.

Hey there guys, hope everyone had a good Memorial day weekend. Jeff, sounds like your counselor friend is over-justifying things a bit to me. This woman (the newlywed) walked out on her family to peruse another man… ummmmm, forgive me but who the [censored] cares if she was happy or not in her marriage?!?!?!? Isn’t a marriage supposed to be a commitment for LIFE…!?!?!? If she is unhappy, isn’t she supposed to find a way to work with her husband to address the problems that are making her unhappy? Doesn’t she have an obligation to her children to preserve their family… to protect them and nurture them? Sounds like she is only concerned with herself. I’m sorry, but I don’t care how you spin it… this is just wrong. And honestly, I think it is the WS that doesn’t see the forest for the trees. The WS is only concerned with one single tree… themselves. They fail to see what happens when they take the proverbial marriage tree and light it on fire…. All the other trees around it get burned too.

On a side note, I just got back from the Cambridge P.D. this morning where I filed a formal complaint against my WW and the @sshole for adultery. The facial expressions on the officer taking the complaint were priceless. She ranged from bewilderment to sympathy the back to bewilderment again. I think she was kida wondering what the hell just happened here when the interview was over. She was cool though. She told me not to expect this to go anywhere, she would file a report and get a case number from the county but that would be about it. I told her I knew that but just felt like I had to cover my bases. She just looked at me with a kind of long drawn out “oooo kayyyyyy…” looks. Oh well, I feel kind of petty doing it but what the hell.

That’s the funny thing about relationships. We say a relationship can’t make us happy, yet we pursue them with an intensity and energy level beyond say, getting a new car. Further, we all acknowledge that relationships can make us down right miserable.

I’m beginning to see the two camps here at MB. The one camp has been miserable in their marriages and tried to make them work any way. I’m in this camp. This camp believes relationships can generate happiness or misery.

The other camp consists, by and large, of people who were content in their marriage only to have the whole thing fall apart. Their spouse had an affair or walked out the door or both. The absent spouse says “The marriage has been a mess for a long time. I’ve been miserable.” The left spouse thinks “I wasn’t miserable. The marriage was fine until he/she wrecked it for me. And I don’t believe they were that unhappy. And if they were, it was they’re own fault because our marriage was good.”

The “You create your own happiness” doctrine supports this second camp. The funny thing is when our spouses set out to create the happiness our relationship is unable to give them, we get really angry! They leave to “find themselves” or they find another who meets their needs or they immerse themselves in work or a hobby excluding us.

GG:

Great point, I think I was in camp 1 and WW was in camp 2. I tried like hell and she threw up her arms and left. I guess my mistake was actually believing that the “till death do you part” phrase actually meant “…till DEATH does us apart”. She seems to have interpreted that as “death… or until you think you find something better, whatever.”

This councellor's theory sounds like the same theory WS's councellor projected after DD...did not matter that he had real issues to deal with ..her advice ..."Just go off and be happy"..now define what happy means...is my WS happy now in his choices...NOT...he miises his family and old life...he tells me this but has not got to the point where he is ready to do some soul searching...by the time he gets there...it may be too late...and we all know the stats on the success rate of second and third marriages...so where is the happiness in that?

Yeah Jeff, 1/2 the effort. I remember telling my wife when she moved out that she never even bothered to spend $10 a month on keeping this family together now she's spending $1000 keeping it a part (talking about her apartment). I asked her once if we were the only two people living, just me and her and the children, I asked her to close her eyes and really go there, just me and her, would she decide to move out. She paused and said, "No, I guess I wouldn't". That just goes to show, it's because of the options. Forget everyone else, I am out for me and what feels good to me today. Forget about them. Forget about tomorrow. Me. Today.

What a pathetic soul.

WMWB, good for you. Do what you must. I know I felt really good when I filed an order on him.

She is a glass half full type. You guys always bring me back to reality, good or bad. Thanks.

WMWB???: Good luck with the adultery charge, I'm sure you don't have real high hopes, I wouldn't. I am hoping to do the same here and be petty right along with you. Check out the thread in this forum - Got my first look at OM today.
I have to ask, your display name- Do you?

Well Dj, that is the million dollar question now isn't it? At first it was just WMWB with no question marks. Then once I started doing some digging into the allegations fo her previous affair and she started going nuts, trying to take the kids away, filing for D and all I began to question whether i did or not. I can honestly say, HELL NO!!! Not any more, not knowing what I know now, not seeing her in this light, no way. Life is too short to have to live with someone like that.

Now, if she changed... and it would take a heck of a lot of change, if she showed some real remorse and effort to want our family back... i would consider dating her. But as I said once before, it would take a lot.

Do you?

WMWB???: Right this minute? I don't think so but maybe, it would take a lot of work and counseling on both sides. More money spent on counseling than attorneys and thats a considerable sum. Ask me again in a few minutes and the answer might be different.

I posted this same thing in the Genral Questions II forum, geeze those guys freak if you talk about a M being over. I have to stay out of there, too many out of touch with reality. I know there are lots of cases way worse than mine that have been turned around but they don't seem to understand how weak?, hardheaded?, pessimistic?, whatever? I am.

DJ,

I don’t necessarily think it is you, I think there are a lot of folks here who are hoping beyond hope and wishing like hell that their WS’s will retrieve their heads from that warm secure place that they stuck it when they started the A. I was the same way… right up until I got served. That was the turning point where it all changed for me. At that point it all became about my kids and doing what is right for them. Now, the folks on GQII would argue that what is best for the kids is for the family to be put back together… and I would agree. However the reality is that from here on out we are in the process of getting divorced… that is the reality of the situation. I didn’t ask for this to be the case, but it is the reality that needs to be dealt with. So, that being the case, I find myself thinking less about my remorse for my family and more for securing the most stable, loving, and consistent environment for my kids to grow up in. I think that is with me.

Until some of those folks go further down this road and get served, they won’t see D as a possibility… and they don’t want anyone bursting that little bubble for them. God bless them and I hope things work out, but for some of us this question of taking the WS back after D is a real question.

It’s kind of funny though, I have been a MB member since September of ’03. I have gone from EN to JFO to GQII to finally DD. It has been a journey, and to be honest I don’t think I could have imagined myself being here when I was still holding out hope and posting on JFO or GQII.

I’d just like to add another thing. Many, many people here believe their marriage can and should be saved, and they tend to project that onto other marriages. But, even Dr. Harley said not all marriages can be saved. In the end, it takes 2 people to make a marriage happy and successful. And sometimes, creating even a tolerable marriage is too much work for one or both of the spouses.

A lot of people would are against the “too much work” idea. However, if you’re one of the people who has found it is “too much work,” you realize you simply can’t do it for the rest of your life.

As for what’s best for the children. It is best for the children to grow up in a home with a happily married mother and father. Anything short of that is less than best, but it isn’t worst either. And, in cases of abuse, addiction, mental illness and personality disorders, it is often best for the children if the parents separate, and possibly divorce.

I guess I’m no longer quite so gung-ho on marriage as an institution. I prefer to think about relationships. I wonder if that makes sense.

WMWB???: My first clue that WW and I had a problem was when she bounced her happy @$$ into my office and told me she had moved out. Her reasoning was that she wasn't happy and wants a D- third time this has happened since we have been married. Denied that there was someone else, ever, and still does til a month after her moveout day. Evidence says otherwise. Anyway 2 days after she moved out I got my papers. I was still in shock and wondering who the hell is happy?. So just the fact that I got served didn't do it for me. D-Day pretty much did though. Then I found MB and started thinking Hmmmmmmmmmm maybe not. My brain is still in limbo. I think the best environment for my kids is with me, also. Maybe not stable but I have WW beat all to hell on that count.

GG: I agree, the best is a family w/ happy parents. Not sure I have that in me anymore and if I did, WW doesn't have it on her mind at all. Noone can be a happy couple by theirself. This has all happened so fast, I'm still in shock. As always, I will do my absolute best for my kids.

Well, since K wasn't happy in her marriage and neither was the man she had an affair with, OF COURSE they did the right thing by having an affair with each other! Sounds like your friend is one of the too-frequently-found "just do what makes you happy at the moment" type counselors.

I hope she doesn't do marriage counseling.

Uggh.

OTOH, I suppose her intent was to tell you that she believes you will be happy again, once you get thru this bad period. That I believe, and I think your chance of happiness in the future is much better than that of your W, who chose such a poor way out.

Kathi

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</small>

Oh, dear. Reading Kam’s post I realize I probably sounded like I thought any relationship was okay. Affairs are NOT okay. They destroy other relationships, many other relationships.

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: greengables ]</small>