I have posted under different topics here before. Quick synopsis...WW has been involved with OP since May of last year. I was porn addicted prior to April of last year. WW filed for divorce 1 month ago and the kids still do not know about the D decision.

I have worked with Emergency Marital Technicians to work towards reconciliation. My wife and I did a Peacemakers Mediation last week , and have come to some agreements on material issues for the time being.

My question is this, what do we tell the kids. I lean toward telling them the whole truth. (Kids are 15, 12, & 8...2 boys and a girl). WW says all of the normal things still concerning her affair. She was given ample opportunity to "do the right thing" especially during the mediation process.

I feel that telling them that I had a problem, and what it was, and that I have stopped and made a decision not to engage in that practice anymore, and also telling them of my wife's problem, gives the kids a warning, and also gives them an opportunity for forgivness, and an understanding of what went wrong. I believe that this knowledge arms the kids with information to protect them into the future.

The idea also is that the kids will be an advocate by their own choice to get her to end the affair. There is Biblical precedent for this idea in Hosea Chapter 2.

I have been advised very emphatically both ways on this issue. What ideas are out there in this forum.

I told my children about their father's girlfriend, and that we couldn't be together because he had a girlfriend and I didn't want that.
It didn't help me. A year later, they are still seeing each other.

“””My question is this, what do we tell the kids.”””

About what? You say you’ve come to some “marital agreement”, what’s that mean?

“””I feel that telling them that I had a problem, and what it was, and that I have stopped and made a decision not to engage in that practice anymore, and also telling them of my wife's problem,”””

OK so you want to tell your kids that you were a pervert and that your wife is “whoring” around. I typically wouldn’t use the word “whore” but it is directly from the scripture that your referencing. OK so you tell them that, what POSITIVE impact will it make on their lives and mental well-being?

“””gives the kids a warning,”””

A warning about what? Teach a child in the way that he go and when he is old he will not turn from it.

“””and also gives them an opportunity for forgivness,”””

Whose asking for forgiveness?

“””I believe that this knowledge arms the kids with information to protect them into the future.”””

How?

”””The idea also is that the kids will be an advocate by their own choice to get her to end the affair. There is Biblical precedent for this idea in Hosea Chapter 2.”””

Since we’re relying on the Old Testament for this, make sure you also tell them that you’ve committed adultery by lusting with your eyes.

I rarely believe in telling the kids too much. For one, it will by your own admission, put the kids in the middle of you and your wife’s relationship. Thus if it fails, they will feel that they bare part of the responsibility. You cheated on your wife (biblically) and your wife cheated on you (physically). Should you now say something to them so that they may sit in judgement? Are you trying to get them to take sides? Shouldn’t the kids have the right to love each parent without one parent giving a one-sided story?

”””I have been advised very emphatically both ways on this issue.”””

Obviously, you can tell what side I’m on. When it comes to dealing with kids, my 1st question is always “What POSITIVE impact will it have on their lives and mental well-being?”. Best of luck to you.

I will advise you what NOT to tell the kids.

1) Dad used to be addicted to porn . . . he just couldn’t get enough of the stuff.

2) Mom has a boyfriend and she would rather be with him than us.


Maybe you could tell them something like this:

Mom and I have issues that have driven us apart through the years. We decided that we can’t live together anymore. We both love you kids and that will never change.

No matter what you say it is going to suck for the kids. Don't say anything that will cause them to loose respect for their parents.

I will advise you what NOT to tell the kids.

2) Mom has a boyfriend and she would rather be with him than us.
They should absolutely be told this.
Why do you think they should not know the reason mom left?

Maybe you could tell them something like this:

Mom and I have issues that have driven us apart through the years. We decided that we can’t live together anymore.
So you advocate lying directly to them?
Who decided they couldn't live together? This was a joint decision to separate and jjhbicycle agreed it was okay for her to be with the om?

We both love you kids and that will never change.
Why should he speak for her, especially in this situation? Does she love them? Will she always love them?

No matter what you say it is going to suck for the kids.
Exactly. Which is why the best way to deal with it is to tell them the truth.

Don't say anything that will cause them to loose respect for their parents.
So they should respect that it is okay to have an affair and divorce because of the affair?
Yes, he should teach the children to respect their mother (yes ma'am. no ma'am) but he should not hide the fact that she screwed up.

Chris,

Your tone is tiresome and often in a spurned-child mode. If the point of this site was criticism and writing with the best adolescent tone you would receive and A+.

I will not regurgitate your words and then find fault in them . . . that is your style not mine.


To the question at hand:


If he goes into his wife's boyfriend thing . . . then she will bring up the porn thing. and no, he should NOT tell his kids he was addicted to porn. Sorry. It is none of their business.
He has an 8 and a 2 year old . . . How does one tell a 2 year old about a porn addiction? Sometimes you give some pretty sh@tty advice.

I NEVER said he should lie to his kids. I implied that he should use age appropriate language to address the end of his marriage.

Keep up the good work . . . sometimes you actually make sense . . . not this time though.

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: Comfortably Numb ]</small>

kimmie,
I told my children about their father's girlfriend, and that we couldn't be together because he had a girlfriend and I didn't want that.
It didn't help me. A year later, they are still seeing each other.
You don't tell the children to "help you".
You do it to let them know the difference between right & wrong.

cn,
I "regurgitate" your words so you know specifically what I am responding to.

If he goes into his wife's boyfriend thing . . . then she will bring up the porn thing. and no, he should NOT tell his kids he was addicted to porn. Sorry. It is none of their business.
I agree it is not their business, especially since it is over. Just as a previous affair and reconciliation should not be told to the kids (usually).

So you are suggesting we should not do the right thing because it might make us look bad over something we have done previously?

He has an 8 and a 2 year old . . . How does one tell a 2 year old about a porn addiction?
Well that would be up to his wife to explain what porn is if she tells them about it. His bit would be to explain that he was doing some things he should not have been doing (see? age appropriate)

I NEVER said he should lie to his kids.
Yes, you did. You wrote, “We decided that we can’t live together anymore.”
(My understanding) is she had an affair and left. “They” did not decide anything.

I implied that he should use age appropriate language to address the end of his marriage.
Age appropriate means telling the truth in a way they will understand. It does not mean telling them something other than what happened.

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

It’s best if you both should talk to the children and tell them one story. I don’t believe sex should come into in any form because children, no matter what their age, don’t like to think about sex and their parents. It’s icky.

I like Bill’s approach. What POSITIVE impact can you expect? If there isn’t one, then don’t do it. And, keep the child’s point of view in mind. They’re point of view is much different from ours.

Being told of your mother’s transgressions by your father puts you in the middle. at any age. I know, I was 21 when my mother told me about my father’s sexual transgressions.

I would be careful not to make the kids feel like they have to pick sides. It hurts the kids more than it hurts the parent who is being badmouthed.

Maybe I’m reading things wrong… but it looks to me like we are talking about three (3) kids total… two (2) of which are boys and one (1) of which is a girl. Ages of the kids being 15, 12, and 8. That being the case, I personally think they are old enough to hear the truth… within reason. Obviously you wouldn’t go into graphic details about the porn or the affair… but simple, basic information I think is entirely age appropriate.

Also, on the subject of telling them the truth or some sugar coated story designed to appease them yet protect their image of their parents… ummmm, I vote for the truth every time. I think telling them stories is a very bad idea because now you are both acomplises in a lie as far as they are concerned. I think they need a parent to believe in and trust… if the WW is cheating and has walked out, well that leaves you pal. Again, I personally would not advocate giving them details…but a stripped down accounting of the truth would be in order. As an example, my kids were 2 and 4 when my WW left for the neighbor down the street. A neighbor mind you that we hung out with the entire summer prior to her A…. so the kids were aware of him and where he lived. One day my kids are sitting at the counter in our kitchen eating lunch and my 4 yo asks me “Why don’t you like Tom any more?” Now, this kids is what I would consider to be an extremely well thought out kid, meaning he puts a lot of thought into his questions and will catch on to a lie right away. Obviously I couldn’t concoct a fib… then he loses trust in me too. So, I simply told him that “Tom is a bad guy. He is trying to take mommy away from our family and I am doing everything I can to get her back.” Now, he knew she left us, he could tell that I didn’t want her to leave, I was the one who held them and cried with them, I was the one who was calm and collected whenever she was around. So, when he asked this question I really think he was trying to fill in the gaps a little… I didn’t give him the details, but told him truthfully “how it is”.

Furthermore, even today while we are in the middle of a nasty D, I still tell my boys that I love their mom and miss her very much… all true. I have no idea what WW tells them, but it surely isn’t that! So, to put it simply… I think the truth is the only way to go.

Yeah, looks like it was misread. (Kids are 15, 12, & 8...2 boys and a girl).

I agree with everything you said.
One of the parents needs to be the one they can believe.
Almost always the ws is lying to everyone, including their children.
And when the kid sdo find out what happened (and they will eventually), they will wonder why the bs lied also.

Even apart from the fact that this was not a joint decision, why on earth would anyone want their children to think that it is ok for parents to just decide they don't want to live together anymore?

I agree with Want My Wife Back.

I think a stripped down version of the truth is the right way to handle this.

In NJ we have to go to a mandatory parenting seminar before you can go to the divorce court. Husband and wives are scheduled at different times. While I agree that children should be protected, their (NJ) version of protecting the child/parent relationship was to lie at all costs.

For instance..this was their example.

Your child is waiting for father to show up for visitation.

Time is past expected pick up

your child is very upset, wants to know where Dad is

You know for a fact that Dad is not there because..say he drinks alot (or is partying with OW, or whatever), and is probably not going to show up

You (according to NJ) are supposed to tell your child that Dad is late because he has something very important to do.


I think that is a bunch of crap..when Dad (or Mom) lets the child down repeatedly, for whatever reason, and you are offering excuses to the child, even lying about it, just to protect that parent/child relationship, When the child eventually realizes the truth, then I believe that child will also feel the loss of 2 parental relationships. I feel that this is just not acceptable, to damage a child in this way.

Children are intelligent, they pick up on the unspoken much more readily than adults do. They will know what is a lie and will feel let down by the parent telling them the lie. The truth is always best. Just make sure it is a version that is age appropiate.

Leave the grown up stuff to the adults, children don't have to know every tiny detail all the dirt... unless you want to turn your home into a Jerry Springer format. Children at any age, will never be able to understand the entire depth of the problems that brought each of you to this point, as it is unlikely without complicated reasons. They do need to know that they will continue to be loved by both parents, that they will be safe and that the goal to protect their lives as they know it as best as can be done.

Children are often told the gory mature details in revenge or for vidication, or to punish the betrayer in some way. Children should not be involved in this as they are not to fault, nor should they bear the burden of the details of the breakdown of the marriage. As parents, it is our responsibility to make our children feel safe and loved by both parents, irregardless of our choices in our marriage/divorce.

It is not lying to children to say that parents could not agree on things, that they cannot live together anymore, etc etc. It is sparing them the hurtful details that they have no need to haul around with them. Why do we want to give our children hurtful facts that might very well harm their abilities to have normal relationships in their future? I don't want my failed marriage to necessarily mean that my children can't hope for a successful relationship in the future... I want them to be able to hang onto the innocence and the hope of having the right man in their lives. I don't want to affect their hopes and dreams by dragging them down with all the details of our failure.
Both myself and my stbx commited many serious errors in our marriage, it is far too complicated to try to explain it to my teens without it affecting how they feel about marriage.

I knew ALL the details about my parents ugly divorce and what led to it and what happened thereafter (A's, nervous breakdowns, PI's, court, hatred)

It ruined my childhood, and has severely damaged me as a person. I am still reeling from it in some ways.

I would have rather not known. I could have dealt with the divorce, so long as it was just about Mom and Dad not wanting to live together anymore. What a relief that would have been over all the gory details. Quote any biblical passage you want. It's not about that, period. It's about doing what's necessary to protect the kids at all costs.

I don't post much, but this is something I've thought quite a bit about. Background: my now ex-husband had at least an EA (I suspect PA) with co-worker before we separated two years ago, PA while separated (one year) before divorce last year. They are still together and talking about marriage (puke). My son just turned 4.

We have not told DS about his father's affair. DS spends time with OW, he likes her very much, and while it is very painful for me I decided it was more important for my son to have a good relationship with his father right now. I am civil to her, as I believe it is important for my son that the adults in his life get along. I don't want him to have the tension of constant battles among people he loves, and if OW is going to be around for awhile (as it now looks) DS should have a good relationship with her.

I think about it like this: what is best for my son, particularly during this difficult transition period, is for him to know that both his parents love him, they aren't leaving him, and he has two homes - one with Daddy and one with Mommy. Divorce, separation, marital problems in the family are all terribly tramatic for a young child. It shakes up their world, leaving them insecure about all kinds of things. I think information about "daddy has a new girlfriend and he likes her more than mommy" or "mommy doesn't love daddy anymore so she lives with her boyfriend" threatens their security even further.

For example, say a couple has a lot of financial problems; one spouse is a gambler and they lose savings, car is repossessed, almost lose their house, etc. What do you tell the kids? Do you tell them that daddy spent all their money? Do you tell them that the reason they don't have enough money for dance lessons or soccer uniforms is mommy's fault becuase she took that money to the track? No, of course you don't. That is too much information for young kids, it shakes up their world too much. They start wondering if they'll have enough food, where will they live, how will they get lunch, other things kids don't need to worry about.

Further, it pits them against the parent "at fault." That is not healthy FOR THE CHILD. It may be what the parent deserves, but not the children. They need a healthy relationship with BOTH parents, They should be told something about there not being as much spare money for the family for awhile, but that all their needs will be met and the family will be fine. That makes them more secure through a difficult transition. Same thing if the issue is infidelity.

To do otherwise puts far too much blame on their father, someone who they need to have confidence in and who they need to respect = for their own self-esteem and development. Kids just don't need that. While well-intentioned, I know, I think that information makes a separation/divorce even MORE difficult for a kid.

Sure, I think sometimes that my ex made stupid foolish choices that hurt me and our son, he should feel the consequences of that. Including damage to his father/child relationship. But my son doesn't deserve that. His father and I had problems, ex was a bad husband. But he is a good father. Son should evaluate his father on the basis of their interaction and relationship, not on the marriage and the crappy thing ex did to me. I wouldn't think it appropriate for ex to tell DS about all the mistakes I made in the marriage, either.

I believe it is my job to help my son come through this with a few scars as possible. Telling him details about what a [censored] his father was to me doesn't serve that purpose.

Just my opinion, sorry so long. If the child is older, then more of an explanation may be in order, but I still think it is so important not to place all the blame on one parent. It is not fair to the children to put them in the middle of an adult situation.

I know we are all doing the best we can.

Carljo

Very well put Carlajo.

why on earth would anyone want their children to think that it is ok for parents to just decide they don't want to live together anymore?
As Emeril would say, “BAM!
Exactly my point. We are to teach them what marriage SHOULD be and how people SHOULD handle mistakes.

You can tell the children that what the other parent is doing is wrong without “badmouthing” them.
If the ws is supposed to be somewhere & they are not, don’t make excuses for them. Simply tell the child, “I know dad/mom said they would be there. I don’t know why they didn’t show up.”

I think information about "daddy has a new girlfriend and he likes her more than mommy" or "mommy doesn't love daddy anymore so she lives with her boyfriend" threatens their security even further.
Agreed. Leave out “mommy doesn't love daddy anymore“ and “and he likes her more than mommy“.
Leave it at, “mommy/daddy chose to live with someone else” and explain that is not something married people do.

Why do we want to give our children hurtful facts that might very well harm their abilities to have normal relationships in their future? I
Which is exactly why you tell them the truth about what occurred. So they learn the right way to handle problems is not simply to leave when it gets rough, but to work through things. And also that sometimes people do NOT do the right thing and do walk away from problems with out fixing things.

Little kids can't understand
Adolescents can't process or handle it

Tell them about it... when they are mature adults.

In the meantime, give each other (parents) full support and unity in their upbringing. Show each other respect. Demonstrate to them how you want them to act as adults. Continue to raise them exactly how you would if they were together. Don't undermine each other.

Remember, even though your marriage may not have worked, you want them to learn (and it HAS to be through you) what a healthy relationship looks like when two people love each other and decide to get married. Not cultivate dysfunction.

There is no value to the children to impart to them the exact details of the breakdown.

If in fact both parents are still active in the children's lives, and if in fact they both love the children, THAT is the message that should be given.

My parents played my sister and I against one another and said hateful things about each other...

"Your mother has lips like petals... bicycle pedals".

"Your father is a son of a b***h and a B@$[censored]"

Those are QUOTES, dear friends, things that I witnessed my parents say about one another.

I, as a 7-10 year old, surely did not need to know that, or that my father slept with a woman named B****** M***** when my mother was attending to my 10 month old sister in hospital, supected with meningitis, but I heard allllll about it.

30 years later I still can hear the words vividly.

Please - don't do this to your kids. When they are adults, if there is a need, the gory details can be explained, adult to adult. Right now they need to know that their parents BOTH love them, even if they do not love each other anymore. Reassure the kids that this is NOT their fault, they did not cause this but sometimes grown ups make bad choices, or find that they cannot live together anymore.

I've never heard an adult child of divorce grumble that they didn't know the gory details from the onset when they were little, but I do know many that were distressed that they knew too much, too young and they felt that put them in the middle of their parents' conflicts.

I'm in a simliar situation, where WH is engaging in porn and pot... but I wouldn't dream of telling them about this. Their father is their hero and I don't need to burst that bubble. IF he can get his problems in hand, it would be destructive of me to damage that relationship. Meanwhile I can try to protect them from his bad behavior, without expressly telling them about it. They don't need that pain. I can bear that pain for them. Someday, if necessary, they can know the truth but at this point in time, there is no benefit to them to find out, and I'm not going to ruin them by telling them.

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