</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is not lying to children to say that parents could not agree on things, that they cannot live together anymore, etc etc. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it IS lying to the kids to say this. I certainly do not want my children to grow up thinking that if they run into problems or disagreements when they grow up, divorce is ok.

Some questioned whether you should tell kids that the reason there is no money is that one parent has gambled it all away - why wouldn't you? Family secrets, the elephant in the living room that everyone tries to ignore - those are the things that destroy families.

So many of the arguments given for keeping treating the kids like mushrooms sounds so much like the reasons people used to give for not telling kids that they were adopted. Now it is commonly accepted that the best way is to let the kids know from the beginning that they were adopted, even before they are really talking. As they grow older, they understand the concept of adoption more clearly, but it never comes as a surprise. The same is true of letting them know the real reasons for the divorce. Most of my kids knew from the time he left that their father was having an affair, and most of them still love him - the ones who say they don't are the ones who were adults or nearly so at the time. Why would you want your kids to love a figment of your imagination? I would want my children to love me in spite of my faults - I would hate to have to worry constantly that someday they would find out something negative about me and would stop loving me. How can you build an honest relationship with your kids under those circumstances? It benefits no one - not even the unfaithful partner.

I wonder after reading these posts if any of these parents have read any books on Helping Children Cope with Divorce, or spoke to a counselor, or a clergyperson, or a peer counseling like www.rainbows.org.

Too many people are using the excuse to tell the children the truth to get them to side with them.
THESE ARE CHILDREN, NOT ADULTS. THEY CAN'T PROCESS AS ADULTS.
Think about it. As adults, many of us couldn't process what occurred in our marriages.

If a parent has an issue. Well research it. Chris, you sound vengeful and want to blame your X for everything. I don't know everyone's story, but come on. Do you really want to hurt your children like this?

Grow up! Act responsibly. There are resources out there to help. Some great books have been noted on these boards, namely, Mom’s House/Dad’s House, How to Talk to Your Children About Divorce and the Sandcastle's book. Rainbows also had a book. And while you are at it, try Children are from Heaven, by John Grey.

What are you teaching your children by blaming. It takes two to make a marriage work. We all know that. And we all know that we are also to blame.

Stop spouting about what to tell the children and get an expert involved if you can't figure it out yourself.
My goal is to raise emotionally healthy and aware children. My children are wonderful and amazing and the divorce impacted them. As a parent, it is my duty to care for the and provide the tools they need to become emotionally healthy people.

I'd like to see more about the kids, then about holding the other parent responsible. Suck it up. If the other parent is awful, then let the children find this out on their own. They deserve that much. Don't poison their minds.

(Off my soapbox now.)

For every "expert" you quote with one viewpoint, I am sure that another could be found with the opposite viewpoint. Just because someone has published a book doesn't make their opinion valid. Just look at all the garbage that was published years ago blaming autism on "cold" mothers.

For all of you who believe in lying to your kids about the causes of the divorce, would you also lie if your spouse were incarcerated because he or she had committed a crime? Would you avoid letting them know he was in jail for murder or extortion just because they might lose respect for him?

If children lose respect for their parent, it is because the parent did something wrong, not because the child knows about it. Respect that is based on a lie is not worth anything.

I am not saying that someone should always tell the kids. I did it, and it just made mine angry with me. And it made my H mad with me. I thought it would shame him into straightening up. But it didn't.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If children lose respect for their parent, it is because the parent did something wrong, not because the child knows about it. Respect that is based on a lie is not worth anything. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry but I didn't read this whole thread. Just bits and pieces.

I would like to comment on Nellie1's statement.

This is true and I have seen it happen. I have seen children loose respect for their own mother and not because she did something wrong but because she filled their heads with crap about their father that they saw to be untrue on their own.

So while respect based on lies is worthless, disrespect based on lies is also.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Newly
Too many people are using the excuse to tell the children the truth to get them to side with them.
THESE ARE CHILDREN, NOT ADULTS. THEY CAN'T PROCESS AS ADULTS.
Think about it. As adults, many of us couldn't process what occurred in our marriages.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Flygirl
Little kids can't understand
Adolescents can't process or handle it
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Nellie
Most of my kids knew from the time he left that their father was having an affair, and most of them still love him - the ones who say they don't are the ones who were adults or nearly so at the time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is pretty clear to me that differences in opinion on this matter are based on the ages of the children in question.

One way or another, the kids can always be given the truth in a way as to not make the other spouse out to be a bad person. That spouse is their parrent and if they do indeed decide to not respect them it should be based on their own judgement based on facts without intimidation.

WIWH

kimmie,
I am not saying that someone should always tell the kids. I did it, and it just made mine angry with me. And it made my H mad with me. I thought it would shame him into straightening up. But it didn't.
No one here is suggesting the kids should be told to try & get the ws back.

Yes, I spoke with two child psychologists. My kids did meet with them also.
I also spoke with three counselors.

Too many people are using the excuse to tell the children the truth to get them to side with them.
Yes they are. And this is wrong. Regardless of WHY you tell the children the truth (it’s better to lie to them???), it’s HOW you do it that truly matters.

THESE ARE CHILDREN, NOT ADULTS. THEY CAN'T PROCESS AS ADULTS.
Think about it. As adults, many of us couldn't process what occurred in our marriages.
Think about how you felt before you really knew what was happening. These kids are far more clueless of what’s happening and even less control.

If a parent has an issue. Well research it.
I don’t understand this. Research what? Do you mean what should the children be told? I have researched it extensively. And I cannot find one thing which says it is better to lie to the kid or it is bad/wrong to tell them what happened.

Chris, you sound vengeful and want to blame your X for everything.
I don’t recall mentioning my ex at all?!?
Blame her for everything? I do blame her for leaving for the simple fact that she left. And my kids deserved more of an explanation than, "we didn’t get along".

I don't know everyone's story, but come on. Do you really want to hurt your children like this?
Hurt them like what? The divorce is bad enough on them. They deserve to know why the parents could not work it out and made a decision to destroy their world.

Grow up! Act responsibly.
I agree.

What are you teaching your children by blaming. It takes two to make a marriage work.
And it only takes one to end it.

Stop spouting about what to tell the children and get an expert involved if you can't figure it out yourself.
You don’t make sense. If one figured it out & is spouting about what to tell the children, why should they get an expert involved?
I personally did get experts involved.

As a parent, it is my duty to care for the and provide the tools they need to become emotionally healthy people.
Which is why one should teach them that marriages are important and you don’t simply walk away from it "just because mommy & daddy didn’t get along".
is not simply walked away from.
Teach then that problems arise in all relationships and the correct way to deal with them is to talk it out and work through the problem, not simply leave.

I'd like to see more about the kids, then about holding the other parent responsible.
So you advocate something like this.
Daughter to dad - "Daddy, why doesn’t mommy call or ever visit us"
Dad replies, "Well daughter, We didn’t get along. But it’s okay, I love you."

If "mom and dad didn’t get along", what do you tell them why the ws moved across the country? Why didn’t they move to another house? Why doesn’t the ws call or visit?

Suck it up. If the other parent is awful, then let the children find this out on their own. They deserve that much. Don't poison their minds.
Telling them why the ws doesn’t call or visit or why they moved out or why mom/dad has a new bf/gf is not poisoning their minds.

<small>[ June 06, 2004, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

There seems to be three (actually only two because 2 & 3 are the same) issues being discussed here.
1 - Tell the kids the simple facts & truth (without being mean or cutting down the other parent)
2 - Tell the kids everything, including the other parent is an SOB, slut, etc
3 - Tell the kids anything but the truth, but be very nice about it.

I'm all for #1. (Not #2 as some of you seem to think is what happens bby telling them the truth).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Tell the kids the simple facts & truth </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good points Chris.
However, when someone is in a blaming mode, what they perceive to be the truth and the actual truth may be very different.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Chris -CA123:
<strong> I'm all for #1. (Not #2 as some of you seem to think is what happens bby telling them the truth). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I concur...100%.

As usually happens with this topic, it appears this thread has pretty much ran it’s course. Looks like there are people on the far “left” and the far “right” and some of us somewhere in the middle.

The thing that disturbs me though is that somehow not telling the kids every intimate detail has become a lie. And the word “truth” is tossed around without knowledge of what truth really is. Who’s truth are we talking about? The children’s truth, the BS truth, the WS truth, or the supreme truth which I find it hard to believe that any of us really know.

One of my daughters asked me the other day to buy her something expensive. I told her I didn’t have the money right now. According to some here, that is a lie because I didn’t go into the details of the court actions I’m in with her money hungry mom who’s screwing one man in bed and the other at the bank. I, personally, believe that the answer is just fine.

I’m not going to touch this thread from a Christian point of view because it would obviously fall upon deaf ears.

Best of luck to y’all.

The thing that disturbs me though is that somehow not telling the kids every intimate detail has become a lie.
Where in this thread does anyone suggest that the kid should be told every intimate detail?

The input from this forum is as diverse as the guidance that has been given to me from "professionals".

I do not intend to give children lurid details. I believe that truth can be told without being disparaging toward myself or WS. Age appropriate discussion starting with the youngest is important.

The seeds of pornography and adultery have already been planted in the hearts of my children. My real question is how do I best display my love for them and afford them protection from the bomb that will eventually go off in their life as it pertains to this stuff.

Is it best to tell them now with discretion...is that the best way to express my love. Or is it better to wait, and at a time in the future discuss the issues when bombs are going off in their life or when they ask specific questions?

A counselor today who is very familiar with our circumstance said 2 things. First, the kids will know eventually and that has been echoed by virtually everyone. Second, whether they know now or not, they will try to protect each parent, and try to "fix" what went wrong as best they know and are equipped.

I still hope to reconcile. There was an enemy in my household called pornography. I brought it in, my wife allowed it to stay too long; it has finally been removed by me with her help. WS now has a different enemy called adultery. The home is the kids too. If they are going to fight anyway doesn't it help if they know what they are fighting?

I have been taught...sin, rebuke, repent,and forgive. The kids are going to attempt to repair. Wouldn't it be better if they were given an opportunity to rebuke instead with a specific target (i.e. adultery). Doesn't this also create an opportunity to forgive by knowing the age appropriate things that need to be forgiven rather that "mom and dad can't work it out" smoothing over and generalized advise some people are suggesting?

If you're looking for justification for your actions, you'll be able to find it here but that doesn't necessarily make it right. You're definately in a pickle and the bottom line is that you are going to have to seriously evaluate what it is the best interest of the kids and proceed. After reading the responses on this thread I can tell you that I feel sorry for a lot of youth who are forced into the middle of their parents problems.

I'm just talking from my personal experience. My mom told me way too much and even though it was "age appropiate" it caused me to harbor bitter feelings for my father that still exist today.

They are your children, not your buddies, and not your counselors. They should not be put in a position to "fight for your marriage". Your marriage is between you and your wife.

You mentioned sin, forgiveness, and repentance. Which is great but it's not your place to ask for forgiveness for another person.

Again, Best of luck.

Personally, I would give them a very stripped down version of the situation.


"Mom and Dad are getting a divorce, there were some major issues in our marriage that have brought it to this state. I wish we could fix them but that does not seem possible.

I will answer any questions you ask as honestly as I can. I want you to know that we both love you."

It seems to me that they can then ask "age appropriate" questions and you can be honest. If the general explanation is sufficient then leave it at that.

Those are my thoughts on this. I do know having had teenagers and still having one at home that they know far more at just about ANY age than I did at their ages and further they do pick up far more than parents realize. So the offer to answer questions leaves doors open without assuming what they want to know.

Hope this suggestion helps you.

God Bless,

JL