Still standing patiently (in Finland).

Question of the month. Do I now, as a last resort, send a letter directly to the OM asking his intentions regarding a future with my x-wife. Doesn`t the Bible recommend that we resolve our problems quickly by going dirctly to the source of our problems?

When I ask my x-wife whether she would ever consider reconciliation, she is just silent. She gives me no feedback whatsoever. Do I interpret this as "yes", "no", or an "I don`t know"?

If, "yes", great; we `ll get to work.
If "no", sad, but I will survive.
If "I don`t know", then I guess I have no choice but to continue waiting.

The problem is that she can`t know what she wants because her lover does not know he wants. What a game of dominos!! It seems as long as there is any hope for a future with him, she seems willing to hang on.

Ergo, I feel I must now go to the one who holds all the cards; direct to the OM with a few simple direct questions. What is the worse that can happen?

Before I do though, I wanted to do two things; first consult my crystal (no answer yet) and then ask opinions from my friends at MB.

Haven`t I been waiting long enough or should I contínue to stand patiently (in Finland)?

No. You shouldn't. Why would you ask somebody who's doing something immoral to justify it? It will make you look desperate as if the guy writes back to you and says "well we're just having fun dating now and I don't know where we will lead" then you'll turn around and show it to your xw hoping that it will have some effect on her to leave him.

I think it's best to leave well enough alone. I would personally get wierded out if a guy, even my xh, wrote the man I am seeing now and asked him even a little about this. I don't think it will accomplish anything in the end...plus, doesn't your xw make the decisions about who she dates, sees? Unfortunately, she's now free to see who she wishes to see and it might make her think by writing him because you think he holds the cards an insult to her.

And no, the real reason you are wanting to contact this man is to find out what's going on between he and your xw. It's not primarily about going to the guy and your primary motivation is the Biblical justification you gave here...it's not because you are wanting to work out things brother to brother in faith. You're wanting information and that's that. I think writing him will do much much more harm than good and will make you look wierd and push the xw further away...

Thank you Peachy

Are there any other opinions?

Standing

I agree with peach, contacting OM would look bad for you.

If his intentions are not in her best intrest, she needs to find that in her own time on her own.

I say continue to be patient. Concentrate on your own intentions and what you feel is your best intrest.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When I ask my x-wife whether she would ever consider reconciliation, she is just silent. She gives me no feedback whatsoever. Do I interpret this as "yes", "no", or an "I don`t know"?

If, "yes", great; we `ll get to work.
If "no", sad, but I will survive.
If "I don`t know", then I guess I have no choice but to continue waiting.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I found after time that when STBXW could not give me an answer it was because it was not the answer that I wanted She couldn't lie so I would hear what I wanted and she didn't have it in hear to tell me the truth that I didn't want to hear. Sometimes I got an uneasy "I don't know" other times I got no answer at all. This usually meant "NO".

WIWH

WIWH

Only thing that temporarily worked for me was doing combo of either plan B or divorcebusting 180. Since you're still sort of doing a plan A on your xw, it would work to also do divorcebusting 180 on her as well to go along with it.

Flies come to honey, not to vinegar.

Make her feel empowered and not put down. Become the logical choice by showing a strong, and self confident and assured guy. Again, don't pummel her with Biblical doctrine or him as well. It will only push her futher away and instead let your faith shine thru in your newfound confidence and actions to her. I think it's much wiser to instead become "the logical choice". What's a logical choice for a girl? Well for me it would be somebody attractive, fun to be around, very intelligent, educated, good job, and brings out the very best in me. That might be what she's looking for and maybe you need to tweak your approach as what has happened so far isn't really working for you ok?

Please don't do it... you will look foolish and pathetic. Don't!!!! please don't. and i agree with peachy to , expecting him to justify something immoral is not good. And what if he gave you an answer you didn't like or one that really hurt? The bottom line it wouldn't look good for you. John

Thank you all for these valuable opinions. I must say that You have pointed out things I have not thought about.

I come back now though with a second round of arguements for why I think I should write this letter. Your ideas would again be very welcome. I am really in a dilemma.

Their relationship, from the beginning, has been in roller coaster turmoil. Every few months, the OM has tried to call it quits. He points out that they have nothing in common, that the fact my X-wife has children would make things very complicated. (Footnote: after a two year relationship with my x-wife, the OM has not yet met my two children. My children live with me and, of their own choosing, they have very limited contact with their mother. This is so sad, but it is my x-wife`s choice.)

I never really know when their relationship is in an "up or down" phase, but I do see her mood swings, and from her family, I do hear things. I, and so many around me, question the long term viability of this relationship. It is as if the OM has her in a kind of spell. He has her hooked so viciously that she has changed 180 degrees in every respect. It is really quite scary. During a few of the "down times", she has indicated that her life is not worth living, so we are all very scared indeed. My x-wife is very prone to this kind of deep emotional dependence. Her father left her cruelly when she was just four years old. She was also deeply dependent upon me in the beginning of our relationship, and now history is repeating itself. I am really scared what would happen if he suddenly let her go.

So, my feeling is that this OM has no idea what he is dealing with. He can`t know how much she has changed because he never knew her before. He has no frame of reference. He also cannot see the real her because she is an expert at painting everything rose-coloured when she is around him. She will do anything to keep the relationship going; sell herself completely. She is a very gifted actress in this respect.

If this OM tells me that he is in Love with her and wants her long term in his life, I will truly accept it. I am ready for this. I have waited two years and have grown from this experience. I have many supportive friends and family. I also know I could find someone special with whom to share my life; God willing. I can honestly say I am ready to move on, but I do not want to move on if there is still a chance of reconciling our family. I do not believe in divorce (except in extreme cases involving non-repentance) and I want to do everything humanly possible to reverse it before I finally throw in the towel.

But I can`t know anything for sure until this relationship is exposed for what it is. The OM likely has no idea that I still Love her and want to reconcile. I did date a woman last year for a while and if he heard about that, he may believe we are still together and that I am content. He needs to know the truth.

He also has no idea how much my children are suffering. My x-wife tells him that they are doing just fine and, of course, he believes her. But how can she know? She is basically out of their lives. It is all a farce. I feel I must shake the trees and see what apples fall. I feel I must give this a guy a reality check because he has no idea how much his actions are hurting so many people. In the very beginning, he told me that he does not want to complicate his life. Well, with two hurt, bitter teen-age children, he ain`t seen nothing yet.

Finally I will remind you all that this is Finland. Finns have an incredibly casual attitude towards divorce. In the OM`s view, all this is just life as normal. Everyone goes through this here. He likely thinks that I have casually moved on, which would be the norm in Finland. Well, I am not a Finn. I take marriage extremely seriously. His motto is live day to day, just think positively, and be happy. My x-wife has adopted this motto as well. This is simple when one only thinks of themselves; simple and selfish. There is no appreciation in this country for the long term emotional devastation that divorce can bring. Because Finns never show their feelings, most go to their graves with unresolved bitterness. "Better to be bitter, then show your true hand and lose your face." Well I want to show him the truth and what he is really dealing with. If he really Loves her, he will withstand it all. In this case, Bless Them. If not, he will go away. Either way, all I want is the truth.

Standing

<small>[ June 15, 2004, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: StandingPatiently ]</small>

So, Standing, it is really all about you. You want it all tied up in a tidy package. I can’t say I blame you. That’s normal.

I see no reason why not to write a letter OM. Probably all that will happen is OM will tell you to mind your own business and your X will say “How dare you!”

At which point you’ll be left with the same decision you have right now? Do I move on or not? How does God want me to use this gift he has given me?

As to looking pathetic, I wouldn’t worry about that at this point. If you X is interested in you, she won’t think it looks desperate. And if she isn’t interested, then it doesn’t matter what she thinks. As for OM, well.. nough said.

Unfortunately she is your x and that would be the same as me meddling in my xh's business because I have learned via a phone call from his new W/former OW that she believes he's a serial liar...

What would my interfering in their relationship accomplish? Most likely it would only be viewed as you vs. THEM. And not positively.

It's sad that your xw has placed this relationship as a higher priority than the kids, but THAT IS HER DECISION. You can't "shake the trees" and see what happens. It's NOT YOUR TREE TO SHAKE ANYMORE. I think there will be very negative fallout if you try this.

IMHO, you're wanting one last ditch effort to find out if there is any interest there from your xw.

And imho, if this man has been with her 2 years and still NOT met the kids, then my instincts tell me he wants a "for now" thing vs. a "forever" thing.

You want some sort of validation from him and you're not going to get what you are looking for. If you want to send a letter, then it's your darn decision to do so or to not do so. But I would not under any circumstances.

Did you ever try any of the divorcebusting 180 tricks on her? Honestly, I'd do a month or two of the 180 and then ask her out to lunch after she sees somebody that is happy with themselves alone as well as happy with her. So far you've not shown yourself a challenge to her.

I just completely think the way you've approached everything is off. Way off. You're off base in what a woman wants from a man ok? We want a bit of a challenge, not somebody who doesn't believe us strong enough emotionally and has to resort to letter writing to a boyfriend or somebody that would (even though it is from the heart and as I believe moral)make her feel a bit degraded as a sinner b/c of her rebound affair after YOUR OWN AFFAIR...Give her what she is really seeking and try something completely different. Your OLD APPROACH IS NOT WORKING OK?

If you want to give things one last try, then give it an all out effort. I posted to you at least once maybe twice before this quote from Einstein: "The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect the outcome to be different".

Show her somebody cool. Somebody calm and content with themselves. Somebody she has to pursue for a change. Add in the 180 and do that for a few months and then take her to lunch and incorporate the 180 into the lunch all the while "NOT ASKING ABOUT HER RELATIONSHIP", acting as if you've moved on, smiling, being happy, showing her a man who has taken pride in his appearance and is somebody she's gotta take seriously as he's single and might not be much longer.

And in doing the 180 there is nothing wrong. In a way it will help you move ahead as well. You're not shutting the door completely by doing this, you're just working on you and not acting like a man betrayed licking his wounds.

Treat her like the woman you met many years ago. Were you a bit of a challenge then? What dynamics are different now? You both are single and pretend you are meeting her for the first time and wooing her. How would you do this to her? Start thinking on those terms.

Quit wondering and wallowing in their relationship. If it were so good or so permanent, he would have already made it legitimate and given her an engagement ring and a date and met her kids. A real man also would encourage the woman he loves, if he truly loves her, to be there for her children. And if you want to ONLY PUSH HER TOWARDS THIS GUY, then keep doing what you've been doing because nothing has changed in the last two years.

I'm rooting for you but want to see you do something new ok?

THE OLD WAY IS NOT WORKING. OM IS NOT THE KEY. YOU ARE THE ONE HOLDING ALOT OF KEYS AND YOU'VE BEEN TRYING TO JAM THE WRONG ONE INTO THE KEYHOLE FOR TWO YEARS NOW. TRY ANOTHER KEY.