After a long and exhausting day, I came home last night to a note from B. With a pit of dread in my stomach, I picked it up to read expecting the same accusations, blame and guilt trip I usually got. Instead, I found two paragraphs that seemed to be … sensitive to my needs and feelings!

Wow! I was exhausted so when the girls called B, I thanked him for the note and said I’d respond when I was less tired.

The second paragraph was an invitation to join him and the girls at the circus tonight. B said I shouldn’t do it just to please him, and not to feel any pressure. It was so nice because usually I feel a huge amount of pressure when he invites me to do stuff.

This morning I said I appreciated the invitation, but that I’d better tackle the front lawn since I hadn’t been able to start the mower on Sunday and mow it. Given yesterday’s note, I figured this would be taken at face value with a “Oh, too bad, maybe next time.”

Instead, B responded with a depressed “oh,” followed by silence. Obviously, I gave the wrong answer. The silence and response during the old Anne days would have elicited all kinds of panaceas. “I’m so sorry.” “Maybe I could rearrange my schedule…” Followed by excuses and defensiveness “You know I can’t afford to get behind on the chores, if I don’t do it now, I’ll have to do …”

This new Anne said nothing. I just felt a trapped in a cage, and then felt a wave of rebellion.

Ok,

I'm trying to follow here, and maybe I'm joining the program in progress, LOL

You seem to be disappointed that he was disappointed. I get the impression that he did something he felt was good, and he was disappointed that you didn't respond in the fashion he had hoped.

I don't see where he attacked, belittled, or did anything other than say, 'Oh' in what I believe was a disappointed or dejected tone.

Is he not allowed to be disappointed?

Now, just because he is disappointed, you shouldn't necessarilly feel guilty about it. However, it sounds like you are making some sort of DJ about how he felt regarding your response.

I also have to ask, what about what he did made you feel trapped in a cage? Sounds to me like he made a gesture and was disappointed you didn't decide to go.

Maybe I'm reading this all wrong. I dunno, I reserve the right to be wrong.

Tony

ps, I'm wondering how healthy it is to characterize your answer as the "wrong answer"

That can't be good for you, can it? Maybe it's the answer he didn't want to hear, but I respectfully suggest that you don't characterize it as the "wrong answer" as I believe it to be disrespectful to both yourself and to him.
t

<small>[ June 15, 2004, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: javaSansContour ]</small>

I dunno Tony. Maybe if there had been any other "normal" conversation afterwards, I wouldn't feel like that.

I do know during our life together, he set the rules. He decided just about everything and because I dislike conflict, it never seemed important to me.

Also, B. would respond with silence and withdrawal anytime I said I didn't like something.

Later, if I disagreed with his actions, he would respond with yelling and physical intimidation.

Others, including professionals, have suggested Verbal Abuse.

I think what really gets to the heart is for once it looked like I was being taken into consideration. My feelings. But, the way he reacted, didn't seem to take my feelings into consideration at all.

I know he was disappointed. And he has a right to feel that way and a right to react the way he did.

I guess his reaction just reinforced my belief that we are too different in all aspects of our being. Our understanding of life and the manner in which we live it are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

It's like we speak different languages, we care about different things.

His disappointment that I'd chose to mow the grass over going with him to the circus far outweighs my disappointment that he chose to do anything or everything instead of get his inventory out of the basement, the sheds, etc, and remove the rusting vehicles by June 1st (his deadline, not mine.) At least from where B. sits his is deeper and more important than mine.

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

GG,

I know it has to be hard when you feel you haven't been heard or considered, and still feel this way regarding his "stuff" that is still so close to your life.

(BTW, I thought the books would be gone by now. I've thought renting a storage unit in his name, pay the first months rent, move the books and give him the key and a copy of the lease. If he wants the books he can get them or pay the lease. Otherwise, the rental place will "dispose of them" and it's no longer your problem.)

I just know that it is disappointing for both of you. I read here that he did try in his own way, and it didn't meet with your approval, so you judge him here.

I believe you do have a valid beef about the books and cars and stuff like that, but his being disappointed that you chose the lawn over the circus with his is a pretty harsh blow.

He is after all, still a person, exH or otherwise. I know I'd feel pretty diminished if the lawn was more important than me.

Tony

Tony, if I didn’t work to pay the majority of the girls’ expenses, and do all the maintenance on a home and have my schedule thrown out of kilter to accommodate his, I guess I’d have thought about it.

Personally, I’d rather go to the circus. Who wouldn’t? But, I’m mowing an acre of lawn with a 21” push mower all by myself. Currently, grass needs to be cut twice a week. That’s 4 hours a week on mowing alone. I do all the girls’ laundry as well as orchestrating their lives. I’m maxed out. I have no time for men. Least of all a man who continues to show me that I’d still be doing all this by myself even if he were in my life.

Should I ever be crazy enough to consider marriage again, I shall run an ad that includes “Don’t do yard work and home projects? Don’t waste your time on me.”

90% of the books are out. About 100 framed paintings and maps are in the basement still, plus probably another 100 – 150 unframed prints.

He said, “If I move them out, our relationship will be over.” It seems he doesn’t want me if he can’t have the books, paintings etc in the basement plus a small office. I don’t want anyone working out of the home I’ve worked so hard on.

I wish I could have jumped up and down after I got a pleasant note, and said “Oh, this is so wonderful! Everything is all right now.” How can I?

It’s sad. It’s sad for him and it’s sad for me. The difference is I already did the majority of my hurting. The scar tissue has formed on me. Plan A is great for building scar tissue (and resentment) on the person following it, and that person handles Plan B and separation comparatively well. The other person though is set up for extreme pain in the event of Plan B because the Plan A was executed well.

If I had left him before Plan A, he wouldn’t have hurt so much. Heck, he probably would have been very glad. Two years later, he felt rather differently.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by greengables:
<strong> Tony, if I didn’t work to pay the majority of the girls’ expenses, and do all the maintenance on a home and have my schedule thrown out of kilter to accommodate his, I guess I’d have thought about it.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You must have nice looking legs now after pushing that mower around, LOL.

Well, I hear what you are saying. I understand the pain followed by numb scar tissue.

FWIW, I too cut the grass with a 20" push mower. The front lawn is Zoysia so while it doesn't get really tall. It is very thick, so the 6HP 20" mower cuts it.

I don't know if my legs or my eyes are my best feature. Maybe it's my mind, LOL

Tony

WOW, Anne, you broke the pattern here!

And I am wishing for you that you never have to see the (------) ever again under any circumstances! He did not add to your life but detracted from it in many ways.

I know you have to deal with him because of the kids and books. But you DO NOT HAVE to deal with him past that! YAY!

I dislike him for the hurt he put on you. And I personally want to come over and have a "BOOK BURNING BONFIRE"!

A "BBB"!

KKKAAAAAABLLOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!

<small>[ June 15, 2004, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

I love Tony's comments about your legs.

And b has an odd way of looking at things. As long has he keeps personal items somewhere, he is in a relationship/marriage. As soon as they disappear - it is no longer????

Oh, heck, I have zoysia too! It's a bear! That's why the front lawn was put off until Sunday. And it does help.

Tony, you know I really don't mean to be disrespectful of B. We were both disappointed. That happens a lot with people who are very different. Until a year ago, in my heart I disrespected my husband's choices. But they are how he wants to live and that's great for him. I tried his way, and almost went mad. I can't live that way.

So where does that leave us? Worlds apart.

Lord, I wish we had never married!

Scratch that. 2 beautiful girls who love their daddy came out of that marriage.

Hey, you could send two men with a U-Haul (checked out with cash in his name) filled with his books "to the circus" park it near him and the kids, and have them hand him the key while they are there!

It's paintings. Prints. Maps. Oh, my.

Baba, he does have good points. And he's not a bad person. JUst different. Bohemian. With a sense of entitlement.

GG

I,ve been off the boards all day but I'm gonna catch up.

I am gonna pick ya apart a little but first.

I know exactly what you mean by his disappointed "oh" it is a very good way to show a person that you are disappointed with their answer and a prompt for them to reconsider. I know that I've done it before myself.

I'm not saying its right but it is a good tool of manipulation.

One angle you should look at this from is that he is a beginner at meeting your needs. From what I know, this little bit is significant progress for him.

That said!

"I found two paragraphs that seemed to be … sensitive to my needs and feelings!"

" thanked him for the note and said I’d respond when I was less tired."

Bammm he scored. Now he's got his fingers crossed for the gold!

"The second paragraph was an invitation to join him and the girls at the circus tonight. B said I shouldn’t do it just to please him, and not to feel any pressure.

"This morning I said I appreciated the invitation, but that I’d better tackle the front lawn since I hadn’t been able to start the mower on Sunday and mow it"

OOOOOOOh didn't even get the bronze!

"Instead, B responded with a depressed “oh,” followed by silence."

Revert back to what has worked in the past to get my way!

"This new Anne said nothing. I just felt a trapped in a cage, and then felt a wave of rebellion."

The new Anne did the right thing but was not trapped. She showed B that she was no longer trapped. Now perhaps B will see that the way things were don't work anymore and he needs to become a new B

I know you don't want a new B but you never know. You may like the new B. He may be learning and changing. And like I said, think of him as a beginner. He still needs more training and I think his first lesson was a good one.

He saw that the disappointed "OH" doesn't work with the new Anne.

If he continues to learn, next time perhaps he'll say. "What if I come by and help you with the mowing to free up some of your time, I need to work on my sexy legs too"

It’s funny I remember when zoysia grass was popular. Didn’t you just plant that with plugs and let it spread? Sounds like hair club for men! (And no I’m not a member yet)

Also, I agree with Newly. His “Stuff” is his attachment to the relationship. Without his stuff in the house, he has no need to ever be there with his family. Again, he’s a beginner, reverting to options he thinks will work like self-pity


I don’t really think that you wish you never got married, I think you wish it worked out the way you expected it to.

I don’t think that B will ever turn into what you want him to, but you don’t want him to turn into something that he is not.

I do think that you should look at his attempts to change with a positive attitude. Not an attitude that means everything is OK, but an attitude that he sees things that were wrong and need to change.

“LL
Then, doing all you could not to be dragged into negativity... at the last... you did plunge when he plunged.”

He plunged and brought you down. Think of the positives that started it!


WIWH

Thanks everyone. All day I knew my emotions were out of time with what happened. I guess it is rough that I see mowing the lawn as more important than the circus. On the other hand, we never had a problem "dating." It was things like mowing the lawn and other every day life that was the problem.

Hey, Newly, how did you get your legs? Mowing the lawn or... planting daffodils?

Anyway, for the record, Newly's legs are awesome.

It's hard when there is still some contact and when they want to be "friendly" on their terms...

Wish I could go out and smell the flowers and sit in the grass, but I had a horrible allergy reaction which was really just the beginning of what is now a sinus infection and I can't smell a darn thing...

Zoysia feels good when walking barefoot.

excellent response. . .

my X just hates calling me. . . because there is no emotion. . . i listen, like today, point out where the stuff she says is impossible or stupid, because of the way she says it, like, "we are leaving Aug 4th, returning august 6th, for a two week trip." (said today)

I don't LB, i say as little as possible. She calls during my job, and does not ask if its a good time, but impulsively calls me because she if she doesn't right then and there, she will forget, or so she thinks. .. or doesn't. . .

its an excellent strategy, because to NPD< you are no longer a supply, but an equal, one they have to deal with, but realize that they have lost all their perceived power. . . or entitlement over your actions. . .

excellent. . . now, when the calls come, like at 6AM to b!tch at me, i just hang up. . . irritates the cr@p out of NPDers. . . they just can't stand being insignificant. . . and ignored. . .

way to go. . . and yes, damaged radar is for sure, and i talk about my son's radar being damaged from his mom quite a bit, so he is even open to some counseling. ..

wiftty

<small>[ June 15, 2004, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</small>

GG,

I'm Shocked <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

You said the D word <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

And I wish you mentioned how great Newly's legs were earlier(like yesterday) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

WIWH

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> irritates the cr@p out of NPDers. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I get upset when I don't get responses. I don't think this is just NPD, although X does it frequently. I am reminded in every interaction of the words of his counselor "he has no communication skills".
And I personally must be just a beginner.

Thanks GG for the compliment. Genetics are a wonderful blessing.

Hi GG,

Well I don't really know your story, can you tell me a little bit? And more importantly what you want now?

Graeme