Since he is making me go back to court just so I can move our children into a clearly better school, I am considering the idea of asking for sole legal custody instead of the current joint legal custody we have because of the way he is unreasonable about every little thing and will likely continue this way until they are 18!

What kind of information do I need to document to prove my case? I understand that in Michigan, joint legal custody is pretty much a given, unless one parent does not fight for it. So I will probably need really solid evidence.

snipped from another site:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
JOINT CUSTODY: LEGAL AND PHYSICAL DISTINCTIONS
By Henry S. Gornbein

I was recently e-mailed a question about different types of custody. Custody is a very important issue. The term joint-custody is often misunderstood. I am going to discuss this in terms of Michigan Law, but I believe many of the concepts are applicable anywhere. In Michigan, we have a presumption in divorces that where there are minor children, there is to be joint legal custody. Joint legal custody refers to joint decision making. It means that both parents are to share in decision making authority over the important matters effecting the welfare of the child or children. These would include education, medical care, religious upbringing, elective medical procedures and issues involving psychological counseling, certain extracurricular activities and summer camps. The important concept behind joint-legal custody is to make it clear that even in a divorce situation a child has two parents and there is to be communication encouraged between both parents with regard to issues effecting the children. It must be borne in mind in Michigan that in most cases, one parent has physical custody and the parent with physical custody is responsible for the day-to-day decision making as it effects the health, welfare, and best interests of the child or children.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

another snippet:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Joint Legal Custody and Relocation Issues
by Lynelle Morgan, MPLP

In the context of relationships involving domestic violence, making parents joint custodians is rarely a good idea. Domestic violence frequently involves the batterer's desire to control his or her partner. Placing relocation restrictions on domestic violence survivors increases the ability of the batterer to control his ex-partner after separation, and increases the danger to that partner and to the children.

A review of Michigan law on the subject is therefore troubling. Particularly where parents are awarded joint custodial rights (legal and/or physical), Michigan law imposes a number of restrictions on the ability of parents to move the residence of a child. Although such restrictions may be appropriate in custody cases between non-violent partners, they can be a judicial sanction of a batterer's desire to monitor and control the movement of his or her victim.
{edit}
Although domestic violence is a consideration in cases involving the 100 mile rule, the other "move-away" factors can cut both ways for survivors. In particular, "the degree to which each parent has complied with the parenting time order, and whether the move is inspired by the relocating parent's desire to frustrate parenting time," sounds eerily similar to factor (J) of the Child Custody Act, MCL 722.23(J), also known as the "friendly parent provision." The "friendly parent provision" is often used against survivors of domestic violence, who may be afraid to cooperate with parenting time orders that grant batterers unreasonable access to them and that make survivors and their children vulnerable. Likewise, the desire to move away from a violent ex-partner might be viewed as the survivor's effort to exclude the other parent from the child's life, although distance is exactly what the survivor needs to be safe.

As troubling as the 100 mile rule and change of domicile rules are for survivors, Michigan case law restricts the ability of a parent to move even further. Where parents have joint legal custody, courts have held that a parent can be properly restricted from moving a child from a particular school district against the other parent's wishes. This line of cases basically says the following: "joint custody" by definition means that parents share decision-making authority with respect to important decisions affecting the welfare of the child and, where parents as joint custodians cannot agree on important matters such as education, it is the court's duty to decide under a best interests analysis. In at least two instances, the Court of Appeals has upheld trial court decisions disallowing a parent with physical custody to move children to a different school district against the other parent's opposition, even though no such restriction exists in statute or court rule. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I know most states are pushing for joint legal, so I believe it will be difficult to deny him legal custody.


However, did you see the news on the Pledge of Allegience? The father who brought the suit did not have legal custody so the court threw it out!

What does "MPLP" stand for behind Lynelle Morgan's name, and where did her article come from? She argues for mothers to have presumptive sole custody and relocation privileges because of the potential for domestic violence? And not quoting any statistics? Would statistics even matter in this argument?

Anyway, if the school change involves relocation, you can search the Internet for somthing called the 3-point Gruber test, which my state uses but I don't know about MI. Also in my state, you would probably have to adjust your schedule so your ex gets a similar amount of parenting time after the move, but again I don't know about MI.

This is just my opinion. If your proposed change involves relocation, or more money from your ex, then he has legitimate reasons to contest it. But if not, and he still contests it, then you have a stronger argument for sole legal custody and you should probably ask for it.

tmmx-- I posted that info specifically because it had to do with DV and that is in my history with XH. (Michigan Poverty Law Program, I believe.)

Joint legal custody is the norm for Michigan. But it presumes that the parents can and will cooperate for the children's best interest. I do not wish to bar him access to the children's school or medical records-- I need to be able to make decisions without his permission because he threatens court over every minor detail.

doofus and I have joint legal custody. I agreed to it only when my atty assured me she could get it written so that I had decision making power. I have primary care. And the decree is worded so that I have decision-making power as long as I keep the dad informed on major decisions. He does not have to agree. I can decide what I want. And there is really nothing he can do about my decisions.

But I know that it is in the children's best interest for me to keep him informed before decisions are made and for me to ask for his input and hear his opinions. It helps the children see that we can talk and cooperate and, usually be respectful. And it lets them know that we are both concerned about them. But it is not always do-able.

But I had to have it this way. The man does not believe in getting mad - he believes in getting even and he has been so wretched as to say that one of his goals in life is to make my life hell. So, I knew cooperating would not be possible.

He could have joint custody only if it still gave me the power to do what I thought best for the children - without really having to deal with him.

I wish I had my papers here at the condo... unfortunately they are stashed somewhere at Mom's - well, maybe not unfortunately, I'd probably use them as scratch paper and write things on them in crayon like every envelope and paper plate in this place... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

[censored] had this huge hangup about "legal custody" it had to be joint. No matter he couldn't watch them unsupervised for 30 seconds, he just had this issue in his dame bramaged head that if it didn't say joint legal he was not the father.

So, creative Mr.Expensivelawyer fixed it.

Something like this...

Joint legal custody is granted except in the case of decisions regarding the children of the marriage, ie: education, right to marry, permission to obtain a drivers license, health care, blah blah blah for about 2 whole pages. Then it states 'these decisions revert to the mother'.

It lists every possible and some impossible situations where a decision would need to be made regarding the kids, and falls back to me.

It's kind of creative - gives him his obsession about "joint" and gives me all the power.

Muahahahahah!

Iffin you wants I can grab them papers and fax/mail/scan&attach em for ya.

E <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

edited cause i catn smell

<small>[ June 16, 2004, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: justthewife ]</small>

I'm guessing his parents will be paying for his attorney...

It is quite amazing what kind of information you can find online. I was just looking for Friend of the Court information on the county site.

If you don't pay property taxes within 2 years of due date, you forfeit the land... and he's been cutting it close... paid within the very last few days to pay, the last couple years.


Delinquent Tax Amounts If Paid By: 06/17/2004

Tax Year — Status — Last Paid — Base Tax — Base Tax Due

2003 — Delinquent — $1,153.38 — $1,153.38 (plus $92.28 late fee)

2002 — Paid — 01/02/2004 — $1,141.76
2001 — Paid — 02/28/2003 — $1,095.46
2000 — Paid — 02/15/2002 — $1,031.84
1999 — Paid — 02/27/2001 — $1,008.45
1998 — Paid — $1,031.15
1997 — Paid — $1,040.77
1996 — Paid — $881.63

Xprincessbuttercup............
I felt a need to respond to the domestic violence issue..........
I was the victim.... I was the victim of a vindictive wife....who used the system to get what she wanted....
I'll be the first to admit our marriage of 17 years was not perfect, we were both verbally abusive to each other, more childish behavior than anything else.
Now I was the parent who stayed home with our kids, I also worked, My wife worked also, she was the main breadwinner, she had the career, and I had the kids.
Towards the end or our 17 year marriage she let me know she did not want to be married anymore, she wanted to find someone else, I wanted to save our family....then over the last month of our marriage....she started claiming abuse, she said she had been abused the whole marriage....
She was quoting the local domestic violence brochure....I kid you not....quoting it.
She said she hated me, that she never loved me, that she wished I was dead.
That she had visions of blowing my head off.
So one week after finding marriage builders and showing her what had happended to our marriage.
That we never spent time together, that what had gone wrong with it.......I found myself on the the recieving end of a restraining order, one with out any reason, one with some truths one which took away all my rights, made me leave my house never to return, one which gave her tempory custody of the kids, didn't allow me to see them for 3 weeks. GUILTY AS CHARGED BY HER..

See she chose this way out.......a very vindictive way out......a way out to continue her RELATIONSHIP WITH HER CO-WORKER....

See the truth is....she was involved with someone at her work....she had been telling him that we were already split-up, that I was not living with her....her way to show that to him was to have me not around....hence the r/o.
I'm sure that r/o's have their place in our society, but I'm sure the way she used her's was not what they were designed for.

I'm still paying the price....
She has sole-custody, she would not agree to joint-custody....(even though I am the parent who had raised the kids) so she has all the rights you were talking about....during the whole divorce process she demonstrated her assertiveness, see she was the boss in our house.... she was still demonstrating that.

Now you can accuse me of being an abuser, not admitting to abuse, that might be a typical response for me to expect, yet you don't know me or know my kids.

I have my kids everyday for nearly 10 hours, you see I watch them during the day while my ex and her boyfriend work (together).
I am the parent my schools and coaches know.
Yet I found out the first day of softball practice for my daughter, my ex was sure to let them know she was the custodial parent, they weren't even sure who she was.
I do have the support of the school and other parents, most don't trust my ex.
I have had more than one parent complain about the way my ex acts at games....she is very loud....very....how would you say it....wants to be in charge (control), sort of she is better than anyone else attitude.

I'm not sure where I was going with this, but anytime I see the words DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, it raises the hair on my back.
Because I was the victim of a mean spirited wife who took this road, and ran me over with it.

One last point, there are organizations that take in to shelter women, yet when I was served my r/o, I had no place to go, no family, just a motel.
Yet, I heard my ex say, that when I was served, she had almost went to one of the shelters....
I found that weird....she had her family all around her, plus she had all the money.

So bash me if you must, I expect it
But some people use the system.

I wanted to say one more thing....
My ex still has the r/o on me, why, because she can.
So I have to use my daughters, (6,10), to call her set up trade off times, coordinating games, me taking one daughter one place, while her taking one the other way.

Is this good for the kids?

I am sorry it was used against you. I also had TWO restraining orders against me, because the XH and his mother got there first. The judge would not sign mine because he already had one against me, that he was later made to cancel so we could exchange the kids for parenting time. He lied his face off and so did his mom, and they kidnapped the children and kept them from me for 4 days.

So I know the system isn't perfect ... but the DV stuff has to be there for those who truly need it.