It's been a while since I have been on this board. I guess I thought all of my marriage problems would just simply disappear, but that is certainly not the case. I finally graduated from school in May and I am now looking for a job, with of course no luck. My husband is still in FL in the Navy and I and our son moved back to AL to live with my parents, since He didn't really want me down there with him anyways. He told me before I left that I could stay down there in another off base apartment because the other one was too expensive and the lease was running out on it. But he said that he would not be the primary signer on the lease that I could be, now how do you expect me to do that when I just filed for bankruptcy a year ago because of enormous hospital bills and no insurance before he went into the Navy. So basically I feel that I was really pushed into having to move in with my parents. This is all really a nightmare can't really believe it and don't want to believe that it is happening. He said that he can't keep me in limbo forever so he is going to go ahead and get his lawyer to send me papers through the mail that I have to put my income down on which is 0 and sign the papers. But my lawyer told me a few months ago that he's never heard of anything like that and it is best that I do not sign anything. My H said that I should sign them now and child support for our son will be figured solely on his income and that he will have to pay more child support which was fine with him because he wants to take care of him and because I am his mother. He said that if I get a job before all of this gets figured up that child support will be less, which I already know. I dont' want to sign anything which I am not sure of.

Sometimes I really do think he has something wrong with him mentally. He did go to the on base counselor to tell him about his problems. And the counselor told him that he thought he might have depression. But he told my H that he didn't want to refer him to get a mental evaluation because it could mess up his career in the Navy. So in other words he is not going to get any help and I am going to loose my marriage because of it.

Who knows he might be cheating, two weeks ago when he came up to see our son I looked in his wallet and found a condom. I confronted him with it, and he said that a guy that was in one of his classes said that someone gave it to him because he believed in abstinence and wanted to play a joke on him so that guy gave it to my H because he didnt need it so in turn, my H just goes ahead and puts it in his wallet, doesn't make much sense to me, looks like he would have thrown it in the garbage. We don't use condoms, I'm on the pill. So that just really makes me wonder. He acted like a few weeks ago that he wanted to try to work things out, he said that I was going to have to trust him and I just blew it when I went looking in his wallet, I told him that I was sorry. Now he said last night that he is going to get started with everything, that he shouldn't be putting me through this pain, but I am in pain without him. It is soo hard living away from him and seeing him 2 weekends a month. Everytime he calls he ends the conversation saying that he just wanted to speak to our son, why does he feel he needs to say that? That maybe I would get my hopes up or something? I have had my hopes up many times since this all started in November just to have them shattered again. I can't take much more of this. It's crazy. All of this talk with him telling me that he does not feel inlove with me has been going on now for two years, guess I should be used to it, but it hurts so bad. I guess I just need some advice or something, don't really know.

Don’t sign anything without your lawyers approval. You can file for child support though if your spouse isn’t sending money. Next, don’t stress about not finding a job yet. The economy is gearing up. In a few months, provided there are no more attacks on us, the employment rate will be up again.

As for your H, don’t buy into that whole thing about trusting him. Men do not walk around with condoms in their wallets unless they’re looking to score. And looking in his wallet is not a reason for him to file. It’s an excuse.

Have you considered Plan B?

Greengables, you are right men do not run around with condoms in their wallet unless they are looking for something that they have no business looking for when they are married. The sex in our marriage has never been a problem, it has always been good. My H has had so many problems in his childhood that I believe it prevents him from feeling feelings for a woman, so that itself puts me in a pretty hopeless situation.

I guess all that I can do at this point is to give him the divorce that he wants so bad. He says that he has tried so hard to get back feelings for me, but it isn't happening and he is tired of trying and waiting for it to happen. I have been following Plan A since around December, when I finally realized that something had to change, and I changed the way that I reacted to the things that he said to me, things that would normally send me over the edge. I know that sometimes I deserve someone that does not have hangups all the time in a relationship, but I also know that no marriage is perfect.

I feel that I don't need to give up on him because he may very well have a mental problem and I don't want him thinking that I just gave up on him. But also, I am not the one wanting the divorce, so I guess he is making his life what he wants it to be and that is not with me.

I fear for our son he is only 4 will be 5 in July, he will be starting kindergarten this August and his life is just beginning, I wanted him to have both his parents around when he did all the first things that you do in school, I just feel sad for him because he is not going to have the same type of childhood as I had when I was a child. This really puts me in a sad sad mood when I get to thinking about it. I could never let someone keep me from missing memories of my child, so why does he not feel anything? Maybe he does and I just do not see it because he is not around.

I guess it really does not matter anymore if he is cheating, he wants the marriage to be over and you can't force someone to be with you if they don't want to be, it just hurts, I don't know if I will ever get over this, I love him and I don't see a real life without him.

Hi Angie,
My stbxw is acting the same way. THERE IS ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING WE CAN DO TO CHANGE THEIR MINDS. I wish there was and do try every now and then like a jerk only to have it blow up in my face. I am going to present her with a divorce agreement and put the ball in her court. We'll see how quick she wants out. You can hold on to the hope if your heart and mind can take it. I am holding on inside but letting go in every other way. It is hard and it hurts but it's a choice we each must make for ourselves. I have been holding on since November so I guess I am a novice compared to you. My children are 16 and 14 and it is affecting them in a very bad way. They need closure more than I do. This is why I have to move this along regardless of the outcome. I wish you luck, patience, fortitude and the love of God.

David A

Hi David A,
Thank you for responding. I know that you know exactly what I am feeling, I could tell by reading some of your past posts. It really is unreal how all of this came about. I just don't understand it. A few months ago H said that he felt he needed to get divorced to get rid of the old relationship with me and then start dating after we get divorced to see if he could love me again, what kind of talk is that? Did he really believe that I would believe that.

He is the type of person that does not like to see anyone in pain. He said that it hurts him to cause me pain. I don't know why I put up with everything. I mean he has shouted in the phone when we had been talking that "Angie I don't love you anymore" and I guess I still want more pain because I still love and want to be with him. I wish that I could just turn those feelings off but I can't do that anymore than he can stop the madness that he is putting us through. His whole family has nothing but divorced pasts' in it, so I should not expect him to be any different than them. His brother ran off and left his wife and got married to another woman, had a baby with her, stayed with her for like 2 years, she left him, he went crazy and tried to kill her. Now he is back with his first wife and their two kids. I think that my H is thinking that he might do that with me, try to come back to me when he sees that life is not what he thinks it is going to be. I just don't know how to feel about that. I have an overwhelming urge to tell him if he goes through with this divorce then this is definently the end of us and that there will be no more talk of any kind of relationship between us in the future. I am so bitter about all of this. I don't even know if I can be friends with him at this point. I am only 24 years old and my whole life has really been nothing but a lie, it really is crazy and I feel crazy and out of control. I will have to go along and give him his divorce that he so desperately wants unless he has a miraculous change of heart all of a sudden, which more than likely is not going to happen. I feel so dead.

<small>[ June 17, 2004, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: angielt ]</small>

Hi Angie,
Don't feel alone. There are many of us right beside you suffering the same fate and asking the same questions over and over again. I had a very tough afternoon myself crying for over a half hour. Our anniversary is on the 26th and It has been a source of great pain for me. Not only for me but for the kids. What am I to tell them about our anniversary. Forget it kids I don't think your mom and I will be married through the end of the year. You see she still hasn't been able to tell the kids she is going through with the divorce. She likes to assume everyone knows what she feels and that she is going to divorce me. Your husband and my wife sound like twins. She doesn't like to cause anyone pain either, but guess what honey you are creating the worst pain in the world. I have heard and read all the cliche's on this board and many of them are true and have much merit, but lets face it, until our minds have worked through all this and can see beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no hope left, we will hang on. Or at least part of us will. But as long as that part exists, the pain and suffering are it's bedfellows. Sooner or later we all reach our breaking points and have to let go completly for the sake of our own sanity. I beleive it's an automatic trigger built into our psyche that protects us from driving ourselves completly insane. Those of us who lack that trigger, well, that what the asylums are full of........... I know for me that point is drawing near, perhaps that is why I have been so emotional lately. I feel like such a jerk sometimes telling my problems to people that don't have a clue about the pain this causes. That is why I have turned to writing more on the board. At least people here have a clue as to what everyone here is going through and except in the worse of scenarios are willing to help you save your marriage instead of giving you advice and opinions on how to end it and stick it to your spouse like the majority of my stbx's new friends are doing. She even working with another woman who is doing the very same thing to her husband and trying to find out how to get their marriages's annuled by the Catholic church. They are trying to find a way to shed their guilt, their husbands and still find acceptance in the church. The shame of it all is that with cash in the right place their annulments will get processed and they will be accepted back into the church and foriven without ever trying to reconcile their marriages.

I'll get off my soap box now. Really Angie we are all here for each other and if you need an ear or a shoulder, feel free.

Take care and God Bless,

David A

The only thing I wanted to say is please read "The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz. It will change your perspective and you life. I benefitted from this book tremendously and I think you will too. Good luck dear one.

Jill

David A,
Sorry about your situation and the upcoming anniversary, if it is any consulation to you, my H didn't even acknowledge our anniversary until I brought it up to him. That really hurt. But I shouldn't have expected him to, don't really believe he is capable of any kind of positive emotion toward me at this point in time. I guess all I'm waiting for are the papers to arrive to me. Then and only then maybe it will make me see just how serious he is about all of this.

I was talking to my brother today and he said that it would not seem like to him that he would be willing to just leave the family and not look back without someone waiting in the wings for him. I hope that this is not true. He does not realize what type of pain that this would cause me. My H sees nothing wrong with riding other females from the base to the store because they do not have a car and he said that they pay him like $5 to take them. I don't ride around with other men in the car with me other than my family and I would think that he should show me the same respect. He doesn't get it. He probably does not even let people know that he is married considering that he does not wear his wedding band anymore, said that it hurt his finger. Excuses, Excuses.

Then my brother said that you have to look at it from his point of view, Would I want to be in a marriage that I am unhappy in, and my answer would be no, but I would surely use every type of avenue to prevent getting a divorce, no good can come of it in my opinion. We are not like two teenagers who can just decide one day that we are going to break up. We have a child together, that it where it complicates his little plans. I thought I knew him well, but I guess that you never really know anyone, you put your heart out there for love and devotion and you always take the chance of not receiving what you give out so freely.

My Dad was telling me its not over till its completely over, which he doesn't really know the full extent of things yet and I really do not have the heart to tell him, I think I would just really break down. My Dad has always said before any of this happened with my H that I could look the world over and never find someone who could be as good to me as who I found. For once my Dad was wrong, but mostly he is right about everything, and if I had listened to him and forgot about dating and marriage and children until after I had my career and life settled then maybe I would not have these problems. I love my son with all my heart, but I feel so bitter at my H at how hard he is going to make my life with having to raise our son by myself while he is out living the good life, it is not fair. We made him together and he should be here helping me, he let me down. Our son loves him so much he asks everyday when Daddy is coming. So he will be here next weekend and I hope I can hold back my anger from him. One day at a time, that is what I keep telling myself.

GG is right. A man does not carry condoms around for a joke.

He is probably having an affair and that fact alone could also cause a shift in the divorce and legal dynamics as well.

You have been thru alot as we have here too. He might try to come back and then again, it might rain tomorrow and there are alot of things that could...could happen.

Well you can sit here and feel bad and yes, we validate your feelings, but you need to get serious and do what's at hand. That is to protect your son.

I just reread your first post and he is in full swing affair mode. One second he wants to try, the other he punishes you for seeing something like a condom in his wallet. I once got pushed down a flight of stairs for accidentally finding his mistress' baseball hat in his overnight bag when I was doing HIS laundry. When you discovered his "guilt" he announces "it's over". Pure WS stuff. He's making you feel guilty for what he's done ok? Transference.

It's like saying...ok. you found the condom and I am going to use this as a tool to continue my very bad and immoral behavior and make you feel bad about yourself.

They will blame you for what they choose to do. And my x said EXACT SAME STUFF btw. He said he "didn't want me to hurt anymore" yet he did horrible things. This is the same man who after three court appearances still didn't pay me close to what he should have owed me.

Don't believe what you hear. He's in affair mode thus he's in liar mode ok? Believe less than fifty percent of whwat you hear and same amount of what flies outta their mouths. He's foggy and is making decisions based only on his feelings.

And yea, sometimes it seems like WS' are mentally deranged. You want to help him and your help only pushes him further away.

I suggest learning plan A but tossing in some divorcebusting tactics as well. You're always there for him. He's taking advantage of that. I'd be all different next time I see him for sure. I would act differently, maybe look a bit differently, and announce he can have his divorce as you've "had a wake up call in your own life and you want to explore life as well". You need to show him somebody independent and not the same person he's used to. He's probably in his foggy mind thinking he can indeed do the same thing as his foggy brother.

And I wouldn't sign anything right away either. I'd get an attorney to do that. Look over and also get evidence of his affair...look for cell phone bills, long distance calls, ...

There used to be a list here somewhere of signs of an affair. Some are right out there and some are subtle. One tip I can add is that my xh when he was on business trips (really on a trip w/OW) would turn off cell phone. He'd turn it off and pretend he didn't get my calls.

Since he only sees you two times a month, he has chance to live a secret life there. And is probably doing just that.

And yes, I think infidelity runs in families. My x's father was a serial cheater while serving as a deacon. Man can spout out every bible verse and make you think he's a real man of God but can drop trou in a heartbeat and cheat on his wife.

It's a learned behavior I believe. My counselor once told me (this was when I was still with a counselor over a year ago) that when somebody gets mad at you for doing something small...ie, opening a bag or opening their wallet..that they 1)have something to hide 2)they are afraid of the consequences when that something is found and 3)if they can use it to their advantage they will. Partners should be able to do anything they want. If I remarry my H should feel like he could open my purse or briefcase. And vice versa except for the fact of the purse...lol!

I say it's time for an attitude adjustment and to stand up to what's at hand. You've got a precious child and he's almsot same age as mine. Stand up for him and don't take this kind of passive abuse from your H. I guarantee if you hired a P.I. for the weekend when he's gone, you'd find out all you need to know.

Hi folks,
About the condom thing. Maybe I'm just a Boy Scout at heart but I carry one myself. I haven't thought of using it as I am a faithful husband even after all I have been through. But you never know human nature and what we may be enticed into doing and I want to be prepared. BTW I'm not looking for anything or anyone so the point is really mute anyway.

It really doesn't matter if we know the details of our spouses secret lives. They don't want to be with us pure and simple. Does the reason really matter. We can play the what if game forever.

My stbxw filed for divorce last November. She has done nothing to move things along. I think she is waiting for the mandatory waiting period of 6 months and leaving it up to the judge so she can be innocent of whatever happens. It wasn't me it was the judge. These people don't want to take responsibility for anything negative. I have an attorny working on the divorce agreement as we speak. She will get it sometime in the next week or so. Granted she doesn't have to accept it but at least she will know I can't take the waiting any more.

My morals won't allow me to move on with my life and develop new friend / relationships unless I am divorced. I've tried and I just can't do it. No matter how you slice it in my book it's wrong.

As far as the secrecy thing goes I told my stbxw she could mount a camera on my shoulder 24 / 7. She can look in my wallet or any of my records. I have nothing to hide. I wish she could say the same.

My only source of release is to have someone to talk to about all this without feeling like a burden. I have yet to find the person or persons who can fill this role for me. Other than my counselor who I have to pay to listen to me.

I have much more to say but my kids need me at the moment so I must go.

Peace and calm to you,

David A

Well just talked to H and he said that he would be coming to see our son this weekend and to also bring me the income statement papers that he wants me to fill out with my income on them and sign them. I'm not going to though, my lawyer already told me not to, I guess my H is never going to get it through his head that I am not going to fill those papers out. I'm not going to sign my name to something that I know nothing about. He said that he did not have to stay at my parents house with me to see our son if I did not want him to. He said that he knew there was going to be alot of tension there. I told him that I have not told my parents that he is bringing the papers for me to fill out. I just don't want to involve anyone in this crap. My Dad is liable to say something to him that he will regret if he found out about it. He thinks that my H still needs time to think things through.

He was nice on the phone today like I am really at peace with this. I've been doing the 180 and I guess he really does think that this is what I want, since I do not protest against it. I don't know if I am doing the right thing. Should I tell him that I do not want the divorce or should I tell him that whatever makes him happy that I will agree with it?
Just don't know what to do. I will be glad when this is all over and done with, I'm so tired of dealing with someone that simply does not want to work on things, it is really tiresome. I sometimes feel like I am loosing my mind.

Any advice on what I should do this weekend would be appreciated. I only have two weekends a month with him.

Thank you everyone for the replies so far, they really do seem to help when I am at my lowest points.

Hey Angie,
There is no right answer to your question. It's a matter of trying certain things and see what works. This is where patience in large doses comes in very handy. Personaly I don't like playing games and being someone I'm not to impress anyone. Don't get me wrong I have changed in my way of thinking and reacting and learned much about emotional needs and the mechanics of relationships.

I have simply been honest about my feelings with my stbxw. I have told her I don't want the divorce, that I feel there is still much between us that is unresolved. But if she believes that being divorced is what she wants and will make her happy then I will give her a divorce. You can't change their feelings, all you can do is change how you feel and act. I am still in a modified plan A. I am trying to act as though I have a relationship with someone I love. I belive she thinks I am crazy for being so nice and carrying on like there is nothing going on. I cook and clean and do laundry. I invite her to dinner and drinks every now and them. ( She hasn't gone yet ) I have built her a horseshoe court, her latest fad, etc. I won't be my own worst enemy and return the anger and the bitterness. It serves no purpose. This is how I handle it. At times it is very painful. At other times it is satisfying. Will it work ? Time will tell. The most important thing, regardless of how it ends is, I can hold my head high during the day and lay my head on the pillow at night knowing I took the high road and did everything I could to give our marriage every possible chance.

These are my opinions and ideas. I have been reading these boards for 6 months and have been in individual counseling for about 5 months. I have not found my peace in this yet nor will I for some time to come. But I believe in my marriage, my family and the strong moral and religious convictions I have been taught and acquired through my life.

Good Luck to you and God Bless

David A

Hi David A,
Thanks for the advice, I am trying to be nice and civil towards him because I do realize that my bitterness and resentment is not going to do either one of us any good. It's hard to control it sometimes. I listen to him and what he has to say especially about this divorce situation but he really does not value what I have to say about trying to save the marriage, I guess we can't have it two different ways. Somebody is going to lose, looks like it will be me. We are all going to lose in this game though, me, H, and our son. Nobody has anything to gain out of this situation except pain. Since this has been going on for around two years, it is time that something has to give.

I still have my strong suspicions that he is seeing somebody. He has the perfect opportunity to, he is 350 miles away from me, he hasn't got to worry about me catching him. He says he would never cheat with him trying to be an officer in the Navy, but I don't believe that for a minute. It doesn't matter though if he is seeing someone, nothing that I can really do about it, except accept that is the way that he wants to live his life.

I am nervous about this weekend when he comes up, I hope I don't end up saying something that I shouldn't.

Hi Angie,
It's a tough situation. All you can do is remember it takes 2 people to have an argument. If 1 person is unwilling to participate in the hostilities then you can't have a fight. He will try pushing any or all of your buttons to bring you to his level but don't let him do it. It will hurt as these people will get nasty in order to get a reaction out of you. Just stand you ground and swallow your tears and you will be a better person for it.

I had such and occurence this afternoon with my stbxw. She tried for 20 minutes to light my fuse but didn't have a chance. I've felt like sh*t ever since but now I am happy I didn't sink to her level and join the fight. She finally gave up and went for a jog. She was trying to tell me how miserable I was making her because I moved back home. All I can say is if your not happy here then leave. She knows I feel that way without having to say it. I want my marriage but not a hostile or loveless one. I hope your weekend goes well for you. You may need to vent to someone in the middle of it all or when it's over. I suggest you do and not let it build up inside you as it will make you miserable. Anyone on this board will be willing to help you out. I talk with a woman in Illinois every now and then and she is very kind and patient as she has been through a very abusive marriage and divorce. If you need someone to vent to let me know. Cell phones are great with free long distance ;-) I know a couple of the other ladies on this board also help people out who have a need to vent to someone. Just ask and I'm sure you will get a response. Talk with ya later

David A

It's one thing to worry and give in. You say you'll just give him the divorce and that you think he's seeing somebody.

I am pulling for you and am asking you to NOT sign anything without having your legal counsel advise you first. Secondly, you need to do some legwork and hire the darn PI and find out as adultery is serious especially if he's in military. If OP is in military is even more serious. You are in good position if you find things out.

Get tough now. Don't give in. You're hurt but think with your head. When you see him , do the one eighty. It's great. You've got enough distance between you both that it will be very evident if you do it even a little.

The one eighty is a complete turnaround. You don't like divorce, and you're not "giving it to him". It's for YOU> Change the way you word things. Make him think you've had an awakening and you've seen the light and you want a change now. That you are different. You act a bit differently. You're upbeat, positive. YOu don't ask about him or what he's doing or who's he with. Not even if you want to. Nope.

And you look great as well. Confuses the heck outta them. I used to use this on my x and it worked for a while until he did it yet again. We reconciled for a few months before I filed....but he's worse than most WS' here I think.

Jethro: I am glad to see that you're trying to accept the fact I am unable to be faithful and that we need to end things.
Me: Yes. Exactly. I got it. In fact, I want something else too. It has dawned on me what I've missed. And while you can have your freedom then I can too. It is what it is. Gosh this is great. I'd love to stay and talk to you but I am going to the gym in a bit for my latin cardio funk class and I don't want to be late. Ciao.

He would freak out. He actually accused me of cheating on him. I think this works with most WS...for a while until they are able to decide to commit to the marriage and finally to counseling. My x never went and maybe if he did he could have gotten some help or something.

But, you have a chance to deliver your own spin on this speech. You look great, and aren't available to have some long, drawn out conversation. You are a woman on the move with places to go and people to see. You could be wearing your workout gear and have your gym bag with you...oh yea, I really go to that class and I would have my hair and a tiny bit of makeup on as where I live, the gym I go to is crawling with guys. And he knows it. You look differently. You're showing him that YOU WANT TO BE HAPPY AND YOU'RE IN IT FOR YOU AS WELL. That you have seen the light and you are wanting to be a single carefree woman and watch out, stand back, here she comes.

If you present it that way, happy, upbeat, smiling, looking good, and on the way out the door he will be so darn confused that he won't know whwat to do. I guarantee you this works one hundred percent.

I am doing it right now. The guy I am dating, very good guy actually, is the receiver of the dating one eighty now. We have been dating for 2 mos. and I got asked out by somebody else to a Harry Connick Jr. Concert last week w/fourth row seats and a backstage pass. Asked by a guy/friend who's in the same political group I am member of. He's a nice guy, financial analyst, but not somebody I'd date. I mention it to RR, the cute guy and ask if he was glad I couldn't get a sitter and didn't go? Well it started a chain of events last night over the phone and it ended with me saying that "well since you haven't said anything and that you aren't sure what you want (he said that he was just waiting and seeing where we are going), that I should probably begin dating around again." He freaked out but tried not to show it. He said "well it's not like we have a formal committment or anything. We're not officially bf or gf or anything. I haven't said I love you. Not yet anyway." I say, "You're exactly right." I am with you on this one. We need our space don't you think? *he is very quiet at this. I mean, we can see each other but I haven't seen anybody in several months and you haven't either. He then says "well if you did I might not be very happy about it. And it could possibly make me rethink alot of stuff on my end." I say well I want you to be happy. I want to be happy too. (foggy stuff freaks them out).

There is a long silence and we get off the phone. We haven't spoken today as he is probably thinking really hard. It's gonna be hard as we work for same practice but he's in the hospital ER/rounds this week so I won't have to see him much and that will add to the one eighty a bit more. What is wierd is he gets internal emails and they tell if there's a catered lunch from a pharmacy/drug co. and we usually have 2 or 3 a week and he will come from hospital for that and try to visit with me. I will this week announce that my patient schedule is far too heavy (it is) and thus, I have to bring my lunch into the lab this week. See? The one eighty works well. You just gotta work it well. Work it better than the three sixty they put on us.

Justpeachy,
You are right about alot of the ideas that you are giving me. I have tried the 180, but I believe in his eyes it just reinforces that he is right in his decision to get a divorce. When he has been at the house I have fixed myself up curled my hair and looked really nice and the first thing out of his mouth is "are you going to see your boyfriend?" Which I don't have anyone else waiting for me.

He was supposed to come to AL to see me and our son this weekend but he said that he couldn't because the command sprung up Petty Officer training on them this weekend. Maybe they did, or maybe not, I don't know. He called today and I was real short on the phone, said I had to go and take care of some things in my office and he said Bye like I was inconvenienced by talking to him, guess he can't take some of his own medicine that he has been giving me for so long. It felt really good to do that, like I have just a little control over this situation. I am an attractive woman, just 24, have a college education, I have alot to offer someone that is mature enough to handle it, seems like he isn't. But I loved him when I married him and I want to see this situation to the end no matter how it ends. But I also know that I will hopefully find someone else in the future when I am ready for it, if my H decides that he doen't want a future with me.

I only have about 10 weeks left until he will be moving to his next duty station at Virginia, so we won't get to see him every 2 weeks then. I guess we won't have much of a chance when that goes down. We'll have to wait and see. I think that is why he wants to hurry up and get his divorce going, because of the distance thing.

Thanks for all of the advice DavidA and Justpeachy, you two seem to know alot about what I'm going through, it helps to know that someone knows and understands the frustration that I feel. Thanks

The 180 isn't working because you're acting as though you're defeated already. One eighty isn't about being pretty, it's about change.

It's about showing a different side of you and making them rethink everything.

If you want to accept this situation, then keep doing the same thing ok? I posted over and over to another guy here this quote. It's from this guy that some people said had a few brain cells. A Einstein once said "the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting the outcome to be differently."

You're in "poor me" mode. It's time to show a change in attitude.

Print off the 180 and post it on your mirror until you can repeat it. But learning it isn't enough. Put it into action if you want results. Do that and a flawless plan a. But also have attorney retained at same time. After say these ten weeks pass, if the flawless one eighty and plan A aren't working, plow ahead with divorce and then do a plan B. Cut him off cold turkey at that point.

You don't have a clearly defined plan do you? How can you work something effectively if there is no clear plan?

Don't just curl your hair or look good. Attitude is what it's all about. Change is what it's all about.

Please really try. I know it's easy to get down and to think that nothing you do is noticed, but it will take consistency and time. But not forever. Set a limit on what is acceptable for the 180 and a plan A. Then go to B and divorce if all fails only.

Learn all about MB principles too here. You need to do LB deposits, not love busts. When you look pretty but ask him over and over about the marriage, if you are seeing somebody else, or if he still loves you or wants the divorce, only makes you look unattractive and needy. He can't get past the pleading and the attitude to see you. That's what I mean by the whole attitude change. Please just really try something different.

And I may be divorced, and I did a killer plan A, 180 and plan B, but it made me a better woman. There are in the end some people that won't change. But that's fifty percent of them. Your h could fall in the fifty percent who can change. Don't give up hope. And btw..I am happier than ever and have the complete peace that I did ALL I COULD POSSIBLY DO FOR MY FAMILY. I did the best I could do and that in the end made all the difference and makes me feel all the better for facing the world each morning.

Talked to my H yesterday. He wants me to meet him halfway to bring him our son so he can spend next weekend with him in FL. I said that I could do that since he hasn't seen him in over a month, he couldn't come up this weekend, had Petty Officer training.

We also got very heated on the phone and he let it out that he had filed for divorce already. I asked him when and he said that it was none of my business. He just said it was recently. He said that he really knows how I am now, knows what? I have been nothing but nice to him for the past couple of months except for a few slips now and then and he tells me he knows how I am. You know, I am getting to the point where I just don't care anymore. This man, you really can't reach him, I thought I could save him and the marriage if I just gave it a little time and gave him his space, which is a state away, but he has already taken that away now.

He said that tomorrow he is going to mail out the income statement papers to me and I could either sign them or take them to my lawyer and let my lawyer call his and go from there.

Then he resorted to calling me names on the phone, and disrespecting my parents, which I don't go for, they have been nothing but good to him, gave him a place to stay when he was 18. He wouldn't be where he is today without their help, he knows this, doesn't want to admit it. Had a very mean attitude. He said well I guess I'm going to start being a Bast@rd to you since you changed your mind on signing those income statement papers. I told him that I was not signing anything until my lawyer says it is ok. He said well you backed out on what you told me a week ago you said that you would.

He expects me to just lay down and take what he gives me. He doesn't want me to have a lawyer, says I don't need one, since there is nothing really to divide. I told him that he has no say so on that, I could have a lawyer if I chose to.

He has moved in to an off base apartment with one of his guy friends in his unit. He doesn't want to come up here and see our son, I guess because he does not want to have to face my parents. That is ok though, I don't know what else to do. I guess I will have to go along with the divorce, but I want to have a say so in it, just not going to give in to everything that he wants. I have tried EVERYTHING, and he is just having none of it. Last night I cried like I haven't cried before. I'm at a loss for words, don't know how to explain how I felt, at an all time low, is probably the best way to explain it.

I told him if you had to talk to me mean, just don't talk to me at all. He said he could see how much money he could give me and our son after I get down there with him. He has been giving us $350 every two weeks to live on, since I haven't found a job yet. I asked him so what does that mean you are not going to give me the $350 like you have been doing? And he said why should I? He said that because I will not sign those income papers like he wants me to.

He knows that I have no other means for money at this time, and he is going to use the money that he gives me as a weapon to just give up anything that I might want in the divorce and agree to everything that he says.

I guess what I really need help is how in world am I going to get through this, I know I will be ok eventually, but I want the hurt to go away. I cried on the phone yesterday to him, I look like a real fool now.

Just need someone to listen.

Ok. Here are the tips. You are not agreeing to try the 180 and the plan a or b. You are not doing either. You're just going along with things. You can't continue in the same direction doing what you're doing b/c it IS NOT WORKING.

And yes, he is in full WS mode now. How are you doing reading the MB principles? How are you doing learning the 180 list? That should be something you're doing now.

Here is what is happening play by play ok? One. He is moving off base. As a former military kid I know that officers usually live on base unless they are wanting to do stuff that isn't allowed on base. It's cheaper and should be what he's doing. He's not b/c it would mean his family would move with him. Do you get this one? Two. He's having an affair. Big time. He is being aggressive for no apparent reason and lashing out at you for nothing basically. That is how they get when they have done something awful and want to blame somebody else for THEIR BAD BEHAVIORS AND CHOICES. Three. You do NOT send your child to visit him for a weekend unless you ONE HUNDRED PERCENT KNOW who your child will be around. Odds are he will be exposed to the little adulteress. That is wrong and not what any good parent would do. Four. He is threatening you passively with withholding monies b/c you are seeking help of a lawyer. Why? He wants his way all the way. In his little mind you should not have a lawyer and just go "paws up" (like Dr. PHil says) and accept everything he's done. You want to review everything before signing and by not doing this you're angering him. Sorry so sad, but you're NOT going to give in.

When the man blames you for stupid stuff end phone call asap. Also purchase tape recorder for your telephone and record all calls from here on out. It is verbal abuse when they swear at you. And if he is living in sin and wants to expose the sin to your child under same roof it is going to go very badly in court for the man if it's found out.

Here's what you need to do. Follow this for peace of mind and serenity. You need to know you did ALL YOU COULD DO to save your marriage and if that fails that YOU DID ALL YOU COULD DO TO secure a positive future for your child. I had one of the most toxic x's here on the boards. I have dealt with much more than you and know almost immediately how to handle a man like this one. And yes, you will most likely have to enlist the help of your parents financially for this. But please do it. You need to.

1)follow one eighty one hundred percent of time and do a Plan A for next times you see him until the ten weeks are up. Instead of fighting with him or saying how you want to save it, act like you've had an awakening and you are agreeable to everything except finances and lawyer. You are happy. Unusually happy and looking content and great. You already know he's filed. What's to lose? If things go really south, I'd do a plan B.
2)hire the PI. Borrow some money from your parents and talk to them about this. It will be important for your case. It will show the existance of the other woman. It will also show his intent of bringing this homewrecker around your child. You need this to file on specific grounds. And also this one...COUNTER FILE AGAINST HIM WITH YOUR LAWYER. You can already file on grounds of cruel treatment as he 's sworn at you, been emotionally abusive. You can then file adultery after that. Plus it will follow MB plan of EXPOSING THE AFFAIR TO THE LIGHT OF DAY. If she is in military it will have serious fallout. This has to happen ok? HAS TO HAPPEN. You can't save something if the WS is in pure denial and living in fogland. AFter all, why the secrecy in his life? Why? It doesn't make sense.

3)File your grounds when you figure out the adultery part asap with your attorney and file for sole custody. If he becomes more emotionally abusive immediately switch to plan B which is no contact and issue restraining order. If he is threatening to you especially but there must be a specific threat as I do not believe in ro's unless it's in your best interest and a safety issue. If you contest the grounds it will make things harder for him and will buy time for you...this is important for the facade to break down with the affair partner. The stress of having to go to court possibly and the fact the object of their illicit affection might have to face the music and that their sin will be publicly uncovered and that the military might find out if both are officers is HUGE!!! That will be the thing that drives them apart.

4)THINK WITH YOUR HEAD; NOT WITH YOUR EMOTIONS ANYMORE. This is key. Must make good decisions asap.

Find my buddy Orchid also. She has come back from verge of divorce and has done much more than even I have. She is cool and will be of good advice. Seek her out on GQII. Page her.

This is not easy what I am telling you to do. But if it were ME this is what I would do. I did similar but wish I had done things a bit more QUICKLY than I did initially and think that might have made the difference. If I had acted faster, come down harder, and done a 180 instead of just a plan A and then to plan B, think things might have a slightly different outcome. Either way if you think and do not react, you will be fine.

I outghta know. I went from being a single mom with no home, living in an extended stay hotel and no family or friends here in GA to help me to getting a good job, going thru a divorce hell, to making it to the other side. Have my son about sixty percent of the time, managed to get a few pennies outta the wayward one, and have my self respect, decency, and a bright future. You cannot give up. Your kids depend on you. I am praying for you and want you to get tough and do what you need to do instead of just sitting there and hurting and doing very little.

Please get active. If you DON'T, you will wonder for the rest of your life what would have happened. Plenty of people here will be glad to help you as well as you try to save things and all the while continue with this divorce.

Remember, your WH is trying to get a quickie divorce with no holdups or accusations of his affair. He's trying to cover it up and do things quietly and quickly and then suddenly pick up and move to a new town for a new assignment. You are the only person standing in the way of his affair fantasy. That's why he's projecting anger onto you. You are the one in his mind holding things bck. He is WILLING to make you take a fall financially and become a single parent and at the same time give him carte blanche with the finances, his lack of willingness to be responsible financially, and his wanting to blindly have you give up your child to him for visitations when you don't even know who or where is going to be around your child.

I hope that makes YOU MAD WHEN YOU READ IT. It's supposed to. It's supposed to wake you up and make you want to take action.

Get going and best wishes and prayers are on the way.

Hey Peachy,
What can I say after that. If your not counseling you oughta be. Love the Eienstein quote. The most commom sense logical statemnet I've ever heard. As a matter of fat that's why I moved back home. 5 months and no change in her, but kids getting worse. Moved back home and got blamed for making the kids worse. Oh well I have broad shoulders. I guess I waited to long to plan B and with the kids involved it is very difficult to do. I believe she is still having the affair but what is one to do about that. Give them the divorce and let them crash and burn. Maybe I'll be around to pick up the pieces maybe I won't. It still hurts like hell though.

Angie please try and follow Peachy's advice. I wish I had done many of these things earlier as well. It really hurts and seems like the wrong thing to do at certain times but the alternitives DON'T WORK.....

My 22nd anniversary was Saturday and it was one of the most difficult days of my life. Stbxw got drunk the night before and didn't come home or call me or the kids. Have company gotta go...

David A