My emotions of calm returns to a low tide again and relinquishing high tidal wave of emotions on the OW on Friday evening was quite the exchange of verbal carbon. (Warning another long post, some shocking things written, As I blow yet another gasket.)And feel so much better...

After having my son come into my home several weeks ago, in the middle of the night crying and throwing up from starvation, because his dad is still starving him to accept his latest girlfriend. He broke down in the middle of the night and consented he would accept food from OW. He was desperate.

EX usuage of starvation tactics as means to feed him only if his OW can come over,visit with him. Twisted, evil minds meld.

My son, had gone several days without food, and OW of convienance lives across the street supplies everything else for XH. XH only pays, rent untilties at his bachelor pad, won't help my son with anything else while he is in school.

The starvation part, seems to me is typical pyscotic tactical ploy of what DCL will do to break their captives minds down,while indulging them in drugs, alchol and other loathsome depraved activities.

Sad thing XH flaunts in my son face all the monies he has for his every weekend ski weekends, golfing, bar bedding,entertaining lavishments for he and OW only.

Since, my son is considered to be an adult, supposably all is well with society. Divorce today, no big deal, adultery no big deal, devasation no big deal, lets just put on a happy face of denial.

As I repeatly hear from the well meaning job comforters in my life, that I am so desperately working at getting away which saying to me over and over like a broken record "we give our children roots and wings everything will be ok."

How far from reality and truth, that very statement is especially when a parent is deginerate jerk that actually shoots their own child wings, and lays axes at their tender fragile roots in the first place.

I ask the basic question then how do damaged birds fly then? What kind of nest do they build, do they breed for fun, only to, devour their young, too?

I doubt things are going to be ok. The healing of a broken hearted, shattered family may take life time, generations. Ah yes, though if crimes, devastion touch the civic levels, it becomes hot news and compassionate outreach concern. Sad the dissolvancy of a husband, wife, children family home means so little.

Oh, small minded low lifes parents who operate at these abyssmal levels to harm and drag their kids with them in their selfish self absorbed process.

I decided that have enough my EX OW hooks, manipulative tenacles reaching out to, continuely angling herself, into my children lives since last christmas. What business is it of hers.


I decided it was time for remedial action and get down to heart of the matter. What on earth is this woman problem besides insecurity, wanting power/control, sick something. XH must not be satisfying her, no, must be deeper. Major bonding formula between them must be chemicals and sex more chemical. Chemical relationship not based in reality.

So, I decided to treat the core of the issue of this woman,I had picked up a Women's Alchol Treatment Center phamlet and put in an envelope, with her name on the outside it. Nothing more, no letters.

I drove over to her home, rang her door bell, to confront her deviant behaviors to deal with her life and leave my kids alone.

No one came to the door, her screen balcony was opened, and her cat. Not home, so I poped the envelope into her mailbox, came home, rang up her number, left a firm message on her service saying" I am aware of what she, XH are doing to my son, that she perhaps focus on her own gargage, keep her hooks out of my children, focus her life on my XH mind her own business. Reminding her that I too, am aware she has a son, and that two could play at messin with kids minds. Back off.

As I came home starting to write about my confronting the situation on MB in high tide of my emotions. My phone rings with a nasty message OW ranting and accusing my avoiding her, I was a coward, wouldn't meet her face to face.

Convinced, now more than ever, I have a feme fatal bimbo on my hands as I did go to her door rang her door bell in person. How else would the envelope in her mail box sticking out reach her.

I instantly called her back, said I wasn't avoiding her in the least, but welcomed a face to face encounter.

Obsiously, the honey moon hormones are starting to fade for her to be calling me back so soon. Well, into the verbal, swamp arena we did go and potty mouth as well. I was surprised she started her colorful verbal obsenties,of calling me F*** B****. She threw quite a bit of emotional weight into words. I must confess I too, was very happy to accomadate her at equal speed, force and truths.

Guess all my old bottled up dark emotions of frustration of all the years of oppression with XH burst like a wineskin, surfaced, and verbal reflexes probably left over from my old junior high playing sports days kicked into high gear to. Of equal emotional verbal obsenties matched hers but higher, lower, hitting the jugulars with many verbal upper cuts back.

It was obviously through her violent verbiage that she was too, a hurt person and bully. Well, one can walk away so many times, turn the other cheek, I have done so many times, but my nerves worn thin, exhausted to take the high road. The right thing to do was not to respond, but I wasn't certain of her intelligence levels that she would get the message I told her several times prior. I want to end the drama with the XH.

In a namo second, Thomas Jefferson words also came into play in my mind, and off it sparked. saying " a little rebellion every now and again can be a good thing. Off came my civility gloves. Whooo, hoo.

I frankly told her to deal with your own addictions, leave my kids alone, respect the boundries, keep her hooks lodged into my XH. Divorce was done and the two of them should F***on, F***Off, and slide you slithering HO. I couldn't believe what was coming out off my heart and mouth. Where did that come from.

She then accused me of my doing this as I was still in love with my XH, trying to get him back.

Jealous of her and my XH. I said no, I wasn't in love with my XH and that all his sexual escapdes means to me, is his acting out with his other HO's others , just really meant what an en extrodinarily good teacher in the bedroom I was. He was always so threatned by my adventursome and inhibited views of relations between wife/husband.

But actuall by his acting out reveals his real incapicity to really love, give, satisfy. Truth be known actually how dissassified I have been throughout the yrs.

To deal with baneful, uptight immature sexually dysfunctional, baby on my hands was simly annoying. I actually perfered real man, who could love be a real partner, husband, father...

Those statements set her back, to pause slirp another drink to another shot. Saying how great their sex life was, she was teaching him and my response was PLEASE...I said I glad she getting some benefits from the left overs from our marriage.

My next jab was I WAS DEEPLY RELIEVED TO BE RID of him, as I never want him back. To get it straight and clear. Maybe, she needed to hear this for herself case she had some lingerings or wondering where he spends the rest of his unaccountable time with.

Guess, that hit a nerve she went on rabbling how she has been doing teaching,how sexy she was again. I actually yawned and sighed said good on you.who cares.

I countered with good and who cares. She countered with I was obviously jealous knowing they were having lots of sex, and her knowing that I wasn't getting any, ha, ha, ha...

Wow, what a comeback. My response was no, sorry I was,nt jealous of thier sex life, in the least but, just very selective.

Truth, is I told her, I have been turning many dates, romp in the hey invites away actually over the past two yrs, as I do posses self respect, values, carely deeply my children griefs, have dignity, something she didn't possess on any level. (If her brain cells actually transmitted she would know I don't call my XH other than business.)

Then I shot back it obvious that she, XH, other 2women from his HS, were the biggest sexual loser sluts back then and still now. Have fun sharing, swingers swinging lifestyle, with your sexual ski weekends. She shot what I don't even ski...swingers, pause laughing at me very nervously...

I said yeah that's right... oh don't you swing? Well EX does, didn't you know. But he's all yours now honey, all yours now to deal with, all of him and all of it.

I said next to her in her confusion, so do you enjoy boating? She said what, yes I said do you enjoy boating, as to can deal with that too.

Oooops, I not wanting leak something out..... so I guarded my mouth not to say anything. (Probably, doesn't know XH told my son he's a playboy now and it's second chance in life.

I should think she serves as his aid to help him over the hump of the divorce to comfort him for awhile and while the next paperclip attachment come down the pipe, on to the next,next, next..

If she is looking for long term committment from him, she has enough clues, doubts to needle him with or pressures. With her vicious temper, seems like it will be just the two of them, in their own face off.

Refocusing, coversation back to. Yes, I said what actually is true is that I made a mistake once, with a loser that I learned my lesson.

Obviously, she hadn't learned from her own prior divorce since she was on loser # 2 with myXH his affairs, as she is still to busy putting her legs before own child. She really screamed then calling me F**** B*** over over and I raised my tone * she was lost troubled HO* Ho**Ho **

That winded her enough to permit a silence gap so she could slosh back another drink, since I was sober, in full mother bear mode.

Her lull provide me with a quicker opportunity to insert some plesantries, shift down the hostilities to a calmer stable tone, remembering to relocate my manners switch again, and start the de-escalating process to leave things to remind of what the issues actually were.

This conversation was to thank her in fact, I wanted to thank her so much for all her efforts in helping me out personally. That floored her into deeper silence.

And to tell her how much I sincerly appreciated her helping me to get my seperation agreement and divorce. What a favor I couldn't have done with out her to get away from my XH.

Those statements shocked her so, that she twisted her viper self into wanting to know about our actual relationship. Saying that my XH was such an upstanding good man, paying the bills, a great provider, with food in the house. .

Sensing, her wanting to dig for more information. I said you can then talk to his doctor and two pyschologists. As the food in the house, you ho I said, it has been me providing food care packages, while they went off to be swinging ho losers at my family expense and destruction. *(*(*P#U$!

That between her and I there WAS NO CONTEST, NO COMPETION. I don't care........leave my kids alone, go to a treatment center, mind her own business, be a better mother.

That sent her in quite a ripping rage----saying if I ever showed up on her property again, she would call the police. I ripped right back in her saying, good make my day, I would love to tell them exactly what she and my XH have being doing to my son in thier sick relationship, and have their persivity looked in as I have already reported to my lawyer. That spun her into a spewing rage from the swamps. Guess the Truth got lodged deep into her soul.

What I didn't tell her is that I actually asked my lawyer if lawyers these days still believed in the principle of fudicary duty towards one's client? To speak the XH lawyer to advise him to go to a treatment center, to at least start the process of making amends to our children be some kind of decent father in the future.)

Actually, this is preciously what should of happened in the first place, I wonder how get someone out of their own right minds make wise decisions, good judgements when soaked in booze and drugs.

Ohhh, guess that sent her into a tin lizzy. Proceeded to tell me what a low life my son was. Now that hit my nerve. I countered if she wanted to talk about low lifes to look at the model, she was screwing... Pair of bottom feeders.

Out of my mouth came F Off to the both of them HO, XH.. I am totally a free woman, now she gets all the baggage, lousy sex , his cheating on her... I walk and hung up.

I guess a phamplet hit the right target, and hit the core of her soul. It's all hers now. Hope they can peacefully evaporate.

My kids didn't know about the encounter. This year on Sunday my daughter didn't even call her, or see her dad on father's day.

Really, if OW model 8 and XH were so happy, why would she being wasting a good friday night, precious valuable several hours, venting her frustrations on me. I should think if his being a good man to her so she says and having great relationship wouldn't the evening warrant spending a delightfully lavishly romantically,light up the stars evening two some, on a friday night. After it all it's mid life crisis time. Let's have at her.

Now that missions are completer, marriages are all destroyed done away with, children out of the way, divorces done with. Well where's the action, hot wild nights of entangled bliss. If things were so good, between the two misfits ,actually perfect evil fits they are, why waste time.

I now if it were me, I wouldn't taken that brochure tossed in the garbage, taken heed, focused on a wonderful evening.

Wonder, sounds like the two them were bored, lonely, sex must be sizzling down on low burn. Probably, another night in front of the mindless gigo tube, garbage in and garbage out mind set, which my XH did day in day out, hours, hours at time. Skewed priorties I never found to exciting to be around with.

Yes, I had yet another human experince of being myself. To protect my kids was certainly worth it. Not handled perfectly, as XH doesn't belive in intelligence, and only think, speak, understand on a levels like this.

What I have learned from the XH throughout the years is that patience, long suffering, has been is only to be taken advantage off. Guess I found my limits. Hope I will never hear from either of them again. Bonus.......

Yikes! I bet that felt good! Maybe I can have you come talk to my WH's OW. I have always been polite to her.

Getting the good out of the legitmate anger. Yes, I feel much better.

The potty mouth part on my part, could have definately left out, definately wrong and error on my part. Not to be condoned.

Definately, there is a great place and time for politeness. Good for you for being so strong.

Maybe we could put together a very well thought out letter circular, we could all agree upon with no potty mouth conditions. (smiles)

Just mail to it to the wayward spouses, and their significant others. Not waste precious emotional engeries. With the highly gifted talent pool on MB, imagine what things could be said.

I guess the forgiveness process can start to kick in now.

Take care,

A circular. I love it! But it can't be completely boring. I think you could start one.

Why in the world is you son not living with you? I can't imagine my son sticking around for me to starve him into submission and he's a lot younger than yours. Encourage your son to get away from them and you stay away too. Nothing good will come of you trading filth with a person like that. Can't imagine you looking back on this a year from now and thinking highly of yourself for your part in this fiasco.

If you feel the need to tell the woman what you think again, try writing it all out (several times if necessary) in a journal. Take the high road Sky...it'll make them look even worse.

Just MHO.

I can only imagine what raw stewing beef of emotions must be simmering on low,low boil, tonight.

Well, we know my stew spilled right over the lid, down the pot, over the burners and stove. I guess these things do happen even in the kitchen. Simmer, simmer, down. Time for clean up.

How about we do an excerise for the just the fun of it...(smiles)... safety, or real neccessities should something come up. Pratice makes perfect, and we are so fed up when our children hearts get walked on all over by these bullies.

Title "To say or what not to say, to those who take advantage of weak, vulnerable and innocent, this is really the "real" question?"

So if you were given the moment of pen, opportunity, concentrated thoughts, you do have the platform and forum now . What would want to really say, it's your turn????

Here's more stew beef served up moments in by cast iron stove wear moments...smashed potatoes, mashed up, mangled lives.

ohhhh it's all in the gravey. Meant to poured on laps, isn't it. What a lovely thought. What we struggle with the hardest is in who's lap do we ahh accidently drop the gravey boat on. And to check in asking our selves is this appropiate? What would Madam Julia Child have to say? Keep it runny or thick burning hot.

Probably, drop the stew and entire coleslaw salad with it. But really would Miss Manners approve of such ungracious hostessing. I bet Martha Stewart would, develop a whole menu especially from her prison tour of sampling the slishy, sloshy, sloppy.

How about just a simple sentance" You fool no one... nor my children.

We are not amused. We see clearly the values witch you fashion, of jealously, greed, pathetic need, bottomless pit of insecurties, possesiveness, antagionsism, bitterness, resentment, selfishness, and above all your deep seated rooted hatred of children, that's what your game is all about, distain for all that is good, just and decent.

Or we are saddened for your misery, pain. That you thrive on hurting/harming others. We sincerly hope you will find the help you need and obviously deserve, that which was done to you to cause you behave the way you do. You are to be pited, for being a perputal victim of your own doings.

May mercy find in you in impoverished state, deep pit of affairs, during your time of need. My children and I deserve so much better, will have better as we have true riches and love of the heart, which you will never know, experince or be able to extract, no matter however you disguise your manipulations. More to life than sex, drugs, rock roll, or a wallet. Respect our boundries. Remember you barely may have any left, more of us , no more nonsence. Enough.Grow up or simply wither where ever.

Between you and I, honey...please know I could descend to your level in less than 5 minutes, any time and anywhere. Takes not much effort to bend. I too, could be as embittered, spiteful, resentful and use people to. I prefer being human, humane and joined into the ranks of humanity.

I choose otherwise, it would take you another lifetime for you to develop a backbone. Cowards simply slink, slither no back bone, and counterfeit that which do not truly posses or can create of thier own doing, just replicate what's seen on TV.

Remember, if I were low enough, I still could come back now, then reverse the duvet covers on you too, then be the OW, in your lives just for the heck of it. After all, we all wired for having affairs. It only takes a spark to inginite a forest fire. There once several sparks at one time. Who knows if they there have been put out.

Therefore, Thread very lightly, show respect and do not step on my children hearts, lives, or deprive them of what is rightfully theirs time with their dad or thier rightful finacial support.

Reversing too, can happen to you. Want mess with minds. Yours to can be messed up, kids and I are very creative. I too could have you checking for cell phone bills, credit card purchases, wondering, too. Be fair and reasonable.


What do you think we should call our "Grow Up" circular?


Would one page be enough? Or two pgs? To say it all? Get it all out...

Or would putting back on our civility gloves be preferred route to take instead. Oh yeah, joy of what fun, it is today to be divorced. I never imagined that I di- graduated today.

By purchasing and sending them a giant classic hallmark "thankyou" card. Small note saying, Born Free,intend to keep that way, I am set free from the zoo, cage, him, I've bored kept in woman to long. Have at it primates, go sex crazed monkies go, remember cages aren't curtains, bars and plexy bars can't hide you both from full public view forever. Hugs from, Wild, Set Free now to be Jungle Jane, again which I always was, until I got captured... I just know that the real tarzan is still out there.

Or next option. How about a lovely hand written no saying "Thankyou, so much for getting him away from me, ohh you clever girl. I just knew you along you really were my ticket of escape, along. Over the edge with gratitude.

One could even go so far as inserting of course, a pair of gift certificates for your XH/OW, to any shrink in your city, several brochures tucked in to any addictions treatment center instead do? Business iz good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

How about a appreciation hall mark card special sent to your WH, from the new mystery X man. (I am sure we could find someone here at MB with a funny bone.)

We come here to cry and laugh.
We're definately a hearthy bunch here to endure the maddness of heartbreak hotel that we didn't choose. On our better days the fare served here is, we just love eating adversity for breakfast, some else created misery for lunch, insane pain for dinner.

So they say, bitter herbs of deceit, thrown into our diets of life, can makes us sweeter, stronger, witter, wiser,even more prettier, or handsomer, thinner, even taller, in not constantly, being hunching double over in pain, from all the shock and winding, in the end. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

(With less stress, agony, torment, crazying making, heart ache, cheeper medical bills, or minds, hearts healed. Leaving us more free quality time to focus on the important things in life and those we love and can love back.)

Choosing wisely this time to love, distinguishing those who are the incapable of loving, not to avoid them but not entirely. Considering vesting time to give some generous acts of charity purposes for those of poverty of souls in confusion.

Yes, make it a mission, instead of marrying those incapable of loving. Iron out the irony here. Give them too, some brochure, but don't I repeat marry them. There's just not capable.

Adultery on the other hand makes for a mighty bitter pill of swill, when fully ingested in the end, time released fog capusle which poisons the mind, heart, liver. Reduces many to a loaf bread.

(Remember we of course keep it here as a fantasy, I just thought of.)
How about a Romeo Mystery Man card:

Beautifully written scripted with dripping emotions of savvy, gratitude on the inside.Saying...to yours X

Thanking him, for relinishing such a rare, precsious, treasure of polished, exquiste diamond find of woman, which your xw (u) are, beauty to be released back into the world and fully appreciated and savored upon.

I have searched a lifetime for her, and can assure you, she will be divinely cherished, greatly valued, nutured, brillantly re- polished, back to shine, with brillance that only the finest silk bed sheets can delightfully shine. Yes, I am that man. She will be protected and kept safely in the deepest chamber vaults of my heart, forever.

Wonderful, gems your children are too, which I absolutely adore, and treasure.I will enjoy the rich, splendid legacy benefits, which you left behind, which to undue circumstances, of my own skewed priorties of what real life was about, self confusion, could not produce myself.

I proudly with honor, what you reject, I accept and will look forward to providing them with the best love, provisions, protection, guidance, education, security, stabilty and saftey forever.

I look forward to your beautiful grandchildren to come, warm celebrations of a lifetime, proudly give your daughter away. Yet the best is yet to come, savored, sipped on, delighted and my thoughts to know I was truly loved, appreciatated for who I am just for me, as to world, corporation, trade wanted my soul only for my vast accomplishments, nothing more.

A new life to be tenderly comforted and savored by my adoring wife, children, to my last evaporating breaths.

I am now completed finally as a whole human man, a free man to enjoy life to it's fullest. Thankyou, my brother for this second chance in life to escape materialism rat trap, which I foolishly slaved my life for. For my most excellent wife, who connects me to the heavenly bridge where I cross. My crown. Thankyou, my friend and above all, for giving me your greatest, set of family jewels.

Enclosed. Sending him gift tickets for two to the opera,& classy dining resturant. Enjoy...

(PS) Drop us postcard anytime at our new summer house adress in tuscanny, Italy. Well, we're all off to Africa, on photo shoot safari!!! Cheers, check mate... Carlos

From tradegy, to comedy, to triumph just might be the right remedy...

But in the end "silence" and ignoring a person as if they didn't exist, complete shut out too, can be sometimes can effective thing do and of course living well.

Old Italian Proverb" Better to be a lion for one day and than spending an entire lifetime as mouse."

"There are people who take the heart out of you, and then there are people people who put it back."

I am now done being naughty. Now let's hear wasz stewing in your pot.

Smiles... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hi feminine side.

Sadly, before the breakup and serious tradegy in our home. I found out my XH and his friends were smoking drugs, lots of drinking were being given to my son.-I blew a major gasket headed off to counceling.

Things got progressively worse as XH as dug his heels in was so permissive, mutiple issuses happening all at the same time.

We battled constantly about this for some time. Consequently, he premitted our son to do anything as long as I was disrespected. I raised our son and daughter with values, morals, manners one way and XH, his family members, friends would undo constantly undermine basic standards.

Telling my children they could do as they pleased, only listen to him. Disregard basically I said. He was absoultely awful coming home in drunken rages, etc.

I was actually ready to file for a divorce three years ago, since XH blew off our councelor and I intervention to get treatment.

I just couldn;t tolerate the situation and left with all the responiblies. He was begging again to give our marriage another chance, needed my help, support. I relented tried helping him. But hooked in again after discovering his involvement with other woman. That opend a whole new can of worms.

We even had marriage counceling with Dr. Harley before he really went off his rails, we discovered XH maddness that he didn't have good intentions towards me, was deceiving us both. We both caught on right in the nick of time. Dr. Harley had requested my XH to contact him, he has refused to do so went on partying living it up in a most dispicable manner. Our whole family has had a melt down.

He was using MB the program as new way to sharpening his playboy skills and obviously it's getting him more women than ever before. So crazy....

He tried to pose to our children he was an honest,responible, God fearing loving man, husband, father, struggling.Denying his affairs, saying I was off my rockers, etc....

I have been threw the washer, wringer and dryer.

The Sad thing reason he was doing all this is to justify his own deviant behaviors acting like a teen ager. If they were encouraged and doing it too, well then he was justified could have their support. Can you see the twisted logic and sick manipulation.

Working with two psychologists, family doctor to get him to act normal. His hatred of me is so deep. Giving our children quality love, attention, etc drove him crazy, his family crazier. Due to his unresolved baggage undermined his authority. I too, lavished a great deal of love, time, attention, affection on my XH. Belived he was entitled like his dad to do anything, everything he wanted.

Insistant throughout the years he was going to run our marriage/family according to his own severly dysfunctional family system. Dad did whatever, women, boozing and tryannt at home. Master/servant relationship with wife.

Sadly, when I moved XH out--my son was basically torn split into two persons.Treating me as my XH, bringing in the wrong crowd into my home for the weekends doing the wrong things.

Took over where his dad the new dicator, calling me names, ordering me around things very, terrible.

Dad being the cool playboy flaunting his new conquests, taking my son to his new cool friends places to smoke drugs, drink etc. XH negatively influenced him and the combination of hanging with wrong crowd of friends. At a dance club, a 42 yr older woman started latching on to him. So battling that situation. Dad told him, it was prefectly ok and not to listen to anything I said. No respect.

Sadly, anarchy took over in my home, and my trying to establish basic decent order, having to rid these characters gone brought on alot of hostility, family violence, alchol, drugs brought about a highly unstable situation, started treating me like my XH.

And had to have my son leave for a cool down period, agree that when he show respect, agree to counceling he was very welcomed back.

He choose in to go to his dad, in rebellion, but I never imagined he would sink, sink so low to him. XH is wicked man,
to destroy with the emotions and heart of my kids.

My good son, the loving part of him is still there. My heart just breaks. It's been a very frustrating long out drawn battle...

Holding up the standards, while being compassionate loving is difficult. I had to be the dad model to hold order.

Now the XH has moved out his bachelor pad, but his girlfriend lives across the street. XH turned his place into a flop house, permitts my son to have his friends come over and party...

Although I have seperation agreement that XH is to continue to provide a environment of social, moral development. It can't be enforced because of his age.

I do lose it--- it's been a nightmare. I hope I never have anything to do with XH and hope my son will reach out for help he so needs. Have done my very best standing up, standing firm.

If I had a few more nerves left I too, agree to write out a letter in a journal.

First off, (((((BIG HUGS)))))

Your story reads like a true tragedy. Makes my heart weep for you and yours. So much hurt caused by the father to his children and then wife. The only advice I can give you is to stay away from this man and whomever he is with. Nothing good will come to you by talking to them. Only hurt, anger and pain. Protect yourself.

Your son is old enough to not be starved by anyone. He's been put through hell, but rest assured, he will not allow his father to starve him. As a grownup living in someone else's home, he has two choices, either eat what is provided or buy and cook his own. Can you get him to counceling? Sounds like he could really benefit from it.

My prayers are with you and yours.

I thankyou for your kindness, compassion, outreach and heartfelt prayers. I can feel them very deeply and my soul is touched.

I am in mighty agreement with you in not having anyfurther contact with X/OW....

I want nothing to do with wicked,depraved persons ever again.
I didn't realize until yesterday that last friday when I had the encounter that I was officially divorced.

What relief that this disgusting union went out with a huge bang.

What's so disgustingly sad, which annoys me is I learned this year X made $71,000.00 this year. Most he has ever earned our entire life dragged us through needless povery for 15 yrs.

Dragged my legal bills up $10,000. Needlessly, I had everything divided nicely fairly. How I prefer to do things.

But X dragging our legal bills to such absurd lengths is again maddness, wasting his own children college education, paying for his laywers kids education, and playing a very rich man game that he can't afford nor has the brains, savvy for.

I wonder if having a lawyer, the drama, attention gives him a feel of power, esteem, exaggerated self importance. Puffery.

The sad part here is that there was no food absoultely zip in the frig or house. Only a few spices in the cupboards. What does one do in that case?


I would definately have compassion and happy to help out, if X and my son were on their own, hard up due to the unseen misfortune of losing his job or something. But this is outrageous.

So how can one eat when their is nothing to eat. No freezer. Any groceries bought were crazy cans of beans, hashbrowns.

My son has milk algeries and irratated bowel syndrome, ADHD.. so his needs are bit more complicated.

Positive note here is X has moved out of the house. I helped my son with job hunt, is now working receives his first paycheck this week.

My goal and prayer is that my son will feel the need to see an addictions councelor and get back on track with GOD.

What's your xh like does he have any addictions, was he at least somewhat of a reasonable father role model or good husband to you in front of kids?

Some people do have fairly low conflict relationships to be gin with and fairly decent martial family structure, and even though the marriage might end.

Not all spouses are wildly abusive like mine who would comprimise their their kids or spouses.

Plenty of spouses still put their children as their top priority, needs, future secured and can be very generous, fair and reasonable.

Counceling,my kids will no longer go, I have offered every avenue and route. Injury done to them is discouragment, throughout all their lives, disprited. Also, though they would have to look at their own lives too, if they look at dad who trained them.

By watching dear ole dad get away with his behaviors and never being held unaccountable, at counceling everyone tells the story, lots of nods, in so many counceling sitatutions and church setting experinces they have lost confidance.

Dad does what he wants anyways in the end and can do what he wants in the home.

Knows full well he will never confronted, just a wrist tap.

The cycle starts all over again, dad inflicts his tryanny at home we bear all the conseqences. So they have become somewhat jaded.

I did manage to get my son to see a great pastor with me last summer, great session, suggested to hold X accountable, my son is to afraid of dad to confront or be judgemental. Gave my son his card to call anytime-son doesn;t want to go back.

I have offered to have three way conference with Dr. Harley to helping our kids in getting a grip in facing the reality of orginal family tradegy and dynamics of the last two, yrs. Our family doctor has offered but kids refuse.

I arranged for my kids and I to attend an anti 6 week violence program to debrief. Councelors at the women's shelter have offered councel they have declined, in home coucel but they have declined.

I sought out two councelors. One a trauma counciler my son with me once, attended one time only as a support to me.

When son was involved with that 42 old friendship last year, we even brought the issue to MB.. for discussion. When my son got to challenged he refused to be accountable respond back.

Both my children know they can privately bring their grievances, hurts, to MB if they want to.

Choose not to. Up, down, sideways, all around I feel I have offered everything I can think.

I have even given my son a street guide survival booklet of all the places he can get help and food banks. Also a street ministry that loves to help people with their addictions and get back on the right path. Called up many prayer lines for prayer.

I even built quiet an extensive library of self help, filing cabinets of information printed off the net from a to z. They refuse that. Offered bible study, what ever is needed it has been resisted.

My children are so severely damaged by thier dad for years. He has used alchol, drugs and his perserve modeling to break down and dismantle their consciences.

I have had sincerely done all I can possibly to get the right interventions.

What has sadly been entrenched on a unconcious level they learned as X has modelled, rebellion is has more benefits, it's fun, enabled, rewarded, and basically one can do what ever one wants, no consequences.

From their friends side who offer more confusion, who's parents are pretty much divorced even from good families. Their friends tell them as kids they sucked up all the garbage, rejection, as they could and pain is still there. Only way to deal with the loniness, hurt is dope to copes.

Adults are pretty mueen wooping it, changing spouses like no tomorrow, bombarded, Media imposes the same lack of values as X. Many of my kids friends tell them who's parents divorced at younger ages
they went through all the motions, blended families that don't work, useless councelings sessions to accept their parents waywardness.

So many of the kids develop polite behaviors, hit their teen years, feel the pain that never goes uncommitted sex multiple partners that's fun. It's their turn, right to experminent all the fun their parents had during their phony selfish lives. It's all so complex.


I guess it's all about love the heart.

I pray you never experince this.

Blessings, blessings, blessings hugs your support means so much thankyou for reachin and reachin out.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

If your son is an adult, he needs to find a way to act like one. You may need to help him with that.

I think I would offer to let him come live with me only after he started counseling - sounds like he has some drug/alcohol/behavior problems. I would have none of that in my house.

But, if he wants to get the help it sounds like he needs, and - where I live - there are community mental health organizations that can provide help on a sliding-scale based on the person's income, if he could play by my rules, I would offer him an alternative home. But no partying.

Is he in school? There may be resources available through the school.

Sky Diver,

I'm sorry your going through all of this but, to me, Your first post doesn't sound like your being a mother bear--it sounds more like your getting your own frustrations and hurt's out at the expense of someone else--who may not have the same moral's you do--but have you considered that she's probably never been treated with respect--and therefore doesn't understand what it is??

Her actions may not warrant respect--but as a person she's due respectful treatment--even when your hurting--because of her actions--

You can not blame HER for your ex-husband's refusal to buy food for his home--but the reality is Your son IS an Adult--and could very well BUY his OWN FOOD!! And feed himself--ADD/ADHD or not--
so you can not use those as excuses--as your son apparently KNOWS his own medical condition and what it takes to care for himself--

I am glad to hear your son has gotten himself a job and is becoming what appears to be self-reliant--as he should at 23 years of age--

Personally, if it were my child, and yes, I love them dearly--and they refused to work or even find a job in order to support themselves at that age--and only wanted to party and be irresponsible they could starve--NOW, if they were TRYING and showing some type responsible behavior--that would be different--and I would do whatever I could to help them--if they were struggling and needed help
as that is what good parents do--

When your son came to your house complaining there was NO food and that he was staving--because dad wasn't buying it--the response should be--I'm sorry things aren't going well--what do you think you can do to make sure YOU have food to eat??

and then you could list out some options for him to consider--not say--Ohhh, I'm SOOOOOO sorry your dad and OW aren't feeding you---here fill up on some yummy food here---and then go blast someone who also HAS NO CONROL over whether or NOT HIS DAD
bring's food into THEIR HOME!! She doesn't live with them--she's NOT responsible if he has food to eat or not--even if DAD tries to BLAME HER for HIS CHOICE of NOT BUYING FOOD!!

Your son apparently understands your hatered for this woman and his dad--and so instead of taking the responsibility for HIS choosing NOT TO go out and get himself some food--it's easier to blame dad and OW--for his not eatting--

But maybe now, that his dad has moved out--your son will start to see that being drunk and drugged up all the time--takes away from the basic needs of life--and will start to be a responsible adult--with a new job maybe it will bring a new give confidence in him--

Thak you, TR. You were going, on the issue of the son, exactly where I thought I was headed.

At 23, he is old enough to be responsible. If he came home, he'd need help and he'd need to stay clean and sober. And he'd need to be working. You know, at that age they need to contribute to the food budget if they are living at home. They need to be responsible for their clothes. They need to be more responsible for their own lives.

Not working and whining about not having food is not a good choice at 23.

There are tons of children who turn 18 and are booted out of their state's foster care programs each year. They are forced to become responsible for their own future education, their own clothes, their own food, their own housing, their own utilities, provide their own dishes, furniture, and everything else they need for life. No partying at dad's for them.

Granted, that is not ideal. But a 23 year old needs to get a job.

Cinderella,

Thankyou for reachin out, and am in mighty agreement with you on your same points. Dido...we're on the same wavelength.

Check, I have offered all the above alternatives and presented the same mulitple options and set firm boundries for my son.

XH has programmed into my son the I am man and excerising " extra entitlement priveleges". Sex, drugs, rock and roll.

The situation is quite a travesty, complex and quite muddled actually.

If you had the entire facts and history time line our martial/family circumstances. You would see the larger picture and understand better that my son poor behaviors, attitudes, poor judgements, is largely linked into his father poor modeling and negative bonds between them.

My son has spent an entire lifetime of watching his dad shift his personal responsibilties onto myself and our councelors, etc throughout the years.

XH clearly knows better, has all the correct information, knowledge, still chooses to do wrong, ENJOYS doin wrong and will not return God, sobriety, or his senses. His mission is to drag our kids down with him.

I cannot undo what his dad is all about--and I hate his terrible misconduct, wrongdoings and destructive attitudes towards my son and daughter.

I donot hate my XH as person, heavens no just his evil doings which I am in strong disagreement with his negative lifestyle.

But he too, is an agent of free choice, but upset he flagrantly lives out his immoratilty in front of my kids.

I am very angry, and legimately so as I don't approve of his message of careless reckless free sex multiple partners he flaunts to my children, in age of aids, other deadly STDs, as well.

I also hate that he teaches my son and daughter that women are good for sex only , other degradation. So I don't respect or admire my XH on those conditions.

I don't like alcholism or chemical addictions this is quite true, it has ruined our family, and billions of others.

What is clear though when a person isn't in their possesion of their full faculties, they often lose their rational capacity and often make very poor judgements, and choices.

Both my XH and I had come from severly dysfunctional families. I chose not to repeat the negative harmful patterns of both my parents, take responiblity for my own life, baggage and be a decent wife,parent.

For what ever the matter is worth, I had worse life than my XH. I could could easily, equally justified a depraved lifestlye, had the same equal opportunities to do drugs, choose to wild immoral lifestyle, hang out with bad influences, dumped my XH so very long ago.

I simply chose a differnt path.Not that I am better, superior, above or below but pain, heartbreak for me taught, certain paths only produced more trouble, and more heartbreak. Why would I want to subject two innocent kids to horrible lifestyle.

XH chose differently to repeat the negative patterns and do worse than his parents, as his siblings did, by not taking responsibilty for their own lives,baggage. XH chose not to be a decent husband, father and likes it that way.

The impact of our seperation and now divorce is showing is ugliness now in my son life. Sad, what keeps my son in bondage to his dad.

He loves his dad very much, as does my daughter and sadly naive in his thinking by joining his dad ranks, mimicing his dad behaviors will get his dad to love him.

Painful reality to face that his dad doesn't feel the same way, to put his own selfishness aside for his own kids. Indifferent and jaded.

Until, my son gets the addictions dealt with and regain his faculities, it will be a difficult time for him.

Perhaps, with his dad gone hopefully out of his life, for the time being at least, he might start feel the need to get the help he so deserves. I am 100 percent behind him on that and will help him.

I guess, some kids personalities are not so difficult to begin with. Ulimately, this case is really a case for God and my son to get him self right with. He is self deceived, hurting, misguided, these harmful chemicals etc, only add to his confusion and fog.

My XH has always been and is a strong negative influence and wrong model for him in teaching him to be weak, unmanly and many wrong things.

My son, is quite aware and welcome to move back home under the above conditions to finish his college, work, prepare for a good life of his own.

My focus and soft spots are for my children only and not my XH or his mistressess.

XH and his women are adults. As long as they do not interfer in my life, or kids. If the older adults aren't growing what incentive do young adults or children have. Or is the old do as I say but not as I do, or secretly perhaps doing or want to do, or have done.

I feel that is reasonable and quite fair legimate request XH to keep his depraved lifestyle at least out of my kids faces, which he will not relent, but has escalated.

I do pray for him and his conquests never the less.

My son knows I love him very much, so you and I are of one mind and accord in setting limits.

In fact amongst all the confusion. To reduce all the super charged emotions.

The task I gave to my son, the other day. Is to get a piece of paper out and write out three things for me.


One: What he thinks all his problems are?


Two: What he has personally done to solve his own problems?


Three: What he expects and wants me to do about them?



Thankyou again for all your kind concern, thoughtfullness. It's just a frustrating situation and overwhelming time.

Hugs