Ok, I need some major advice here… I will be posting this on both the D/D board and the GQII board as I feel the overall tone of advice differs greatly between the two. This may end up kinda long… but please bear with me as I feel the M may be at a major crossroads.

Some background for those who aren’t too familiar with the saga that is my M…

My sig line give the necessary details of the beginning of the end, currently we are in the opening stages of a custody evaluation which will take 3 months, figure another couple of hearings after that and I figure the D will be final around the middle of October or the beginning of November. I figure I have about 4 months to turn this around. I did a lousy plan A, a half @ss plan B, a pathetic plan B II, and communication kind of deteriorated into bickering for a couple of months with me being consistently monotone and emotionless with her for the past couple of months. Since she moved out I have tried to not have communication with her at all, but found that I needed to with regards to the kids and at their request I have invited her to attend some events with us which she made certain I understood she would not go to. Short of that though there was none. She has been bitter and nasty until recently. She is pretty much living with the OM whenever she doesn’t have the kids.

Here is the dilemma… in short, assuming that I want to recover the M, do I try to plan A her or do I attempt yet another plan B??? The way I see it, both have their drawbacks. The first issue though that needs resolving is the question of whether or not I even want her back. There is still a spark there… something, I can’t put my finger on it. Yet, I know logically speaking that I would be much better off without her. I am willing to give the M another run for the kids though. So I guess I kinda answered my own question there…

In the last week or so she has been noticeably more cordial and nice to deal with. I have heard from some of the neighbors that the bets are on the table so to speak about how much longer the A will last. The party days seem to be coming to a close and I hear of troubles between the OM’s daughter and WW… which can only help my cause! Also, it is becoming pretty common knowledge around the neighborhood how immature the OM is…. Rather, he is a frigg’n child. I have some theories that WW is only especially nasty to me when the OM is right near her. I think he is so insecure that she feels she must prove herself to him by treating me especially badly. I have no proof of that, just an assumption. And he has a temper… he has gone off on me a couple of times. I mentioned to her that I have noticed that she has been nicer and I really appreciate it, that it makes dealing with the kids allot easier. She agreed and thanked me for saying this to her. I spoke with her in person for a minute on Friday night, as she was visiting with my neighbor. She looked GREAT. She has lost about 20 lbs. (bringing her down to about 105 or so) and was nice and tan. I missed her allot all weekend.

The problem is, short of what I’ve heard from the neighbors… there is no evidence whatsoever of the A ending… infact it appears they are progressing along towards a M of their own. Like I said, she practically lives over there and he has even cleared a spot in his garage for her car… how sweet. They partied all damn night on the 4th and she couldn’t figure out why I was distant with her on the phone when she called Monday to talk to the kids. She seems to be trying to engage me in conversation more and more lately. I can’t figure out if she is trying to figure out what her options are, if she’s cake eating, or if she is only being amicable for the sake of the custody evaluation… in order to appear willing to co-parent with me. I can’t tell… but she hasn’t been this nice in a long while!

So, where does that leave us… assuming y’all have been able to follow my ramblings here (my mind is going 100 mph here and I’m trying to get this all in one shot). I don’t know if I should try to engage her in a sort of plan A and maybe try meeting some of the needs that @sshole isn’t… assuming I could figure out what those are and she would let me meet them. I don’t want to be her safety net, I don’t want to enable her to keep this crap up, and I don’t want to open myself up to getting crushed by her again… I don’t think I could handle that another time.

Of course, maybe she IS cake eating and I should go back to being dark… let her go thru this alone. Her parents just moved 300 miles away and now she is “here” all alone with regards to family. I don’t know if that is a good or bad thing… she has a semi-volatile relationship with her parents. Although they sure seemed to be supporting her thru all of this… paying her rent, attorney’s fees, ect… Maybe plan B is more in order. But I want her to be able to trust me, if I keep being nice and going dark, being nice and going dark and so on I don’t see how she could trust me.

I really feel this is at a crossroads but don’t know how to respond to it. Nothing seems to have changed on the A front, other than her behavior towards me. How do I respond???

Ok, that’s it… please feel free to respond… anyone! Also, if there are any glaring holes in the story, please feel free to ask and I will fill in the necessary info… like I said, my head is running 100 mph right now and I’m sure I left some important stuff out. Thanks for your help and reading all the way thru this.

Ryan

<small>[ July 07, 2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back??? ]</small>

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

Laura-

Amen! Well stated. I too, second the motion.

Hang tight- with his vanity and pride issues- oh what a fall there is too come, without a word, watch the walls come crumbling down.

Learning this my self the hard way...

Prayers, and hugs...

Thanks guys… this is exactly what I’ve been doing. My WW (or EW is you wish) has been calling more and more lately. I think she expects me to be rotten to her and it just makes her day when I’m not. I talked to her last night when the kids called to say goodnight to her. She was at @ssholes house and sounded all bummed out and really down. We had discussed earlier yesterday that she would drop off our sons backpack and lunch box because he forgot it in her car. Well, I guess this dude must really be more childish and insecure than I thought… WW asked if I had run to the store yet (she knew I had to go to Wal-Mart last night) and I told her that yes I already had. Then she stated that her girlfriend would be dropping off the backpack for her. Now, keep in mind that WW and the girlfriend were both at OM’s house… about 150 ft. from my door. For some reason it seemed that if I was going to be home… WW couldn’t bring the backpack down. Strange…. but I get it!

Yeah, she sounded really down when I started talking to her but we ended the conversation laughing and in a good way. She sounded at least a little cheered up. I asked her how her day went, she sounded pleased that someone asked. Then she asked how mine went… “Can’t complain…” I replied and she seemed genuinely glad to hear it. I can’t wait to see how this goes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I can see the merit in both Plan A and Plan B right now, which is why I've had a tough time coming up with any advice. In this circumstance, Plan B might be what is needed to allow her to hit rock bottom as the fantasy with OM disintegrates for her. However, at this point, Plan A could also provide a valuable opportunity to show her that you are her knight in shining armour. But you seem to have a tough time executing a solid MB A or B. Your hurt and anger has gotten in the way in the past...understandably.

I like Laura's advice on taking this time to shine.

Be careful, be smart, and be strong - protect yourself.

But also, be kind, be light and cheery, be levelheaded and be reasonable.

Ditch the bitterness!

My 2 cents. Are you capable?

Levelheaded and reasonable... me???? You know who your talking too, right??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I was going to throw "logical" in there as well....but that would really be pushing it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yeah… you are probably right, that would be pushing it… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Things are going well… operation “Flirting With The Enemy” is going off without a hitch. So far I am remaining emotionally detached enough not to be affected by the subtle changes in her demeanor or the fact that she is still sleeping at this @sshole’s house anytime she doesn’t have the kids. I just go on being happy and cheerful and ever so slightly flirty. I can see in her eyes (we seem to be having A LOT of eye contact lately) that she may be having some second thoughts about her life right now. I’m not ready to say I think she wants to come home just yet… mostly because I don’t think she has realized it yet. But I can see where she will if this goes on much longer… we may end up divorced first, but I can see she is having some second thoughts about things.

I’m having a bit of trouble not denigrating the @sshole OM though. I have been able to stop with the multiple cursing descriptions (ex.: Low Life Piece of Sh*t cockroach maggot @sshole) but still find myself referring to him in a derogatory manner. For example I may simply call him a maggot or vermin. She is quick to point out that she doesn’t appreciate that from me. I am trying to hold my tongue in check and just call him “that guy”… it is tough but I am trying.

The last couple of time I have talked to her on the phone she seems to be down when she answers but cheers up considerably once we get to talking. I can’t help but think this is a good thing. Also, she took the kids to a parade last night… this was my day and we agree that she could take them for a couple of hours. Well, I spoke with her yesterday afternoon and she wasn’t sure if she wanted to go or not. She thought maybe we could all go out for ice cream or something. I just played it off cool saying “well, ok… yeah what ever you decide to do is fine with me.” But by the time she was off work… they were back to going to the parade and @sshole’s daughter was with WW when she came to pick up the kids… I think there may have been pressure from the daughter and/or OM. WW didn’t seem too thrilled to be going. Funny thing though, when WW came to drop the kids off at home after the parade… OM’s daughter wasn’t with. Also, WW appeared to be in a bit of a hurry when they first got back home… like she had someplace she had to be… yet managed to stick around for about 15-20 minutes without any prompting from me to stay. I invited her in the house for a few minutes… she declined with a suspicious “Why would I want to do that? Why am I suddenly allowed back into your house? Why are you being so nice all of a sudden?” I just relied “This is all because you are being decent. I have been very consistent in how I have treated you. The change is yours and it is nice.” She didn’t really have much to say about that. We just stood in the driveway and chatted for awhile before she finally did leave.

All in all, it was a pretty good night and the kids seem to be really enjoying our getting along. My 4-1/2 yo asked WW if I could come to the parade with them when she picked them up… I told him I needed to mow the lawn and then turned to WW and assured her that I didn’t put him up to that. When she left after dropping them off… the same kid asked where she was going. I told him “…home I think.” He just looked at me with a devilish grin and said “…but this is her home dad.” Then he ran off to do what ever it is that almost 5 year olds do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

Yes, this is all good stuff, and really good to hear.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

But be careful...she might just be seeing through small breaks in the fog, but the fog may still remain for some time. She could waiver and jump in and out. Before recent developments, it was almost as though the fog was sooooooo thick there was no way out for her. Keep your guard up - protect yourself and your children from false hopes.

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

The emotionality of all- where we get stuck in turbo hyper gear.

Everything is so supercharged and so hard to regain the steering wheel of our minds.

God is such a better driver that we ever can be. Especially, when others want to drive us off the road.

Glad he can step in at times like these, grab a hold of the wheel, until we can collect our selves, helps us to shift our emotions down, hit the brake, to get us to slow down. Look up straight ahead and see the on sudden dead end.

Your ES seems to know how to manipulate your emotions in keep you engaged locked in turbo gear. She knows she crashed, and wants you too, crash along side. Why else is she messin with your gear box. Is she worth all this?

I wonder what happen if you shifted down to neutral, or first gear with her, providing her with no emotion at all.

Keep things in brevity, neutrality, no reving, no sparks, your heart and soul is in park, locked and safely protected.

Treat her as you would a complete stranger in traffic, just sharing lanes, obeying the signs, keeping safe until the traffic jam is cleared and redirected.

She and the other Om can cruise on by, the faster the better, to drive their own relationship to the dead end street, where they are headed anyways. They both are not going too far, wanted you too, accompany them. Misery loves company, and attempts to alway take hostages.

Maybe what the two of them need to come to their senses and grow up. Wish them well.

Hope today will be a better day for you, it's not that easy when our emotions and wounds get deliberately provoked, and poked at.

Maybe for all the hurt, suffering you have endured might be a good idea to take off for the weekend. Just drive somewhere enjoyable and get the pair out of your rear view mirror.

Enjoy, the skies, hills, country side, sea shore or what ever and see how much God loves you. Gaining the bigger picture really puts into perspective, to help us decide what we really want and need.

Relationships and marriage is really a two way street, meant to serve both people. How WS think that relationship is only a one way street meant for them, is a gross misunderstanding, imho.

Everyone, also has the same co exist rights to get off a bad situation. Works both ways.

Take goof care,

Well said sky diver.

There are personality and behavioural issues that need some serious work and effort IF reconciliation and recovery are on the table. These issues and wounds don't magically disappear just because she's making eye contact and no longer telling you to "F** off and die".

Being positive and optimistic are great, and good traits to work on for yourself, but you are well aware of her manipulative, controlling, dramatic tendencies. What makes you think she isn't just testing you a bit to see if you still care about her....with no real intentions of wanting to get back together? It might not be the case, and perhaps she is genuine in her sudden interest again....but what if she's not? Do you want rip all those wounds wide open again....just when they were in the beginning stages of healing?

Read and haven't posted in a while here b/c I have actually gotten a semblance of a life again and also powers that be I think have been monitoring the online stuff @ work...

Here's my .02

1)She is for sure waffling...and thinking of cake eating again after having OM for a while now.
2)It may be her being nice b/c of the custody hearing.
3)Do a GREAT plan A and stick to your guns there for at least two months. Also implement the divorce busting one eighty ok? This works AWESOME with plan A.
4)Don't get false hopes up. We read FAR too much into what WS say b/c they lie, cheat, and live a double life. We aren't given access into that world so we analyze any little thing they say...at least I used to.

And yea, my xh did same stuff at beginning of the move-out period. And he ate lotsa cake at that time. This is why you must ESTABLISH BOUNDARIES AND HAVE A FIRM PLAN so that your SANITY IS KEPT IN CHECK. If you continually to give and give to somebody else and ignore your feelings and your own needs, you'll go bonkers. That's why you get a plan and stick to it.

Also
5)play to YOUR STRENGTHS. Try to not even concern or mention OM at all. Just gives him energy and draws her attention to him again. If OM is demanding and has a temper, then YOU be kind and caring and understanding when you talk. Talk about her. Be the opposite of his bad traits and emphasize your good ones.
6)ok...so she lives close by and can monitor your every move. I say when the time is RIGHT, be gone or absent and give no mention of your activities. Keep on being nice and calm. Just allow her to see that you're not home every so often and that's good. She needs to get a bit more off balanced and see you slipping away. That might help too.
7)If she mentions OM and his bad temper or anything like that, just open up more dialogue anf say something like "how does that make you feel when he belittles you like that?" or open up questions and get her to talk.
8)Remember that a custody battle is still going on and that the divorce is still on at the same time you are doing all of this. Sure, it's a bit doubleminded, but you don't wanna be left holding the bag with nothing should she decide she is going to go zonko and remain with OM and divorce is finalized...you want best case scenario for you and the kids period.

This is a tough time but you can do it. Women, and I can say this one for myself and why as of recent, I have ended a few dating relationships...we need emotional closeness and validation of the relationship. Like a pretty flower garden on a hot day in heavy sunshine...we need lots of watering and attention. If you show a new you and do the one eighty along with the plan B, she will be utterly confused. She will have on one hand a good guy, a dependable guy. The father of her kids. The man who stood by her. A man who has also learned how to communicate with her and takes her seriously. Or else she can choose a man who doesn't listen to her, belittles her, and wants her to wreck her whole life and change her entire family life forever. Make her understand the positives for staying and reconciling. But you have to do so by living it...means not being clingy and showing her also what she might loose if she keeps you hanging on and OM in the picture.

Woahh--Jilliana and Peachy up to bat.

Grand standing, home run quality advice and of course, Laura-Lee's straight pitchin advice from high heaven!

The bases are loaded now.

Perhaps, a better question might be, what does your EW have to do, to get you back.

Eye bat just doesn't cut it and make the grade in the triple A league of the heart.

What do all you ladies think? EW, seems to be playin, toyin, tossing, spinning, making a false play moves, here. Doesn't seem to sincere, or serious.

Have you considered what she would actually have to do to earn your trust, love, respect back?

Let's play fair ball...batter up!!!

Smiles

Hey guys… or gals as it were… I know what y’all are saying… and I agree, to a degree. I am certainly not exposing all the wounds that are just scabbing over… I am playing it safe… but more importantly, I PLAYING. I sort of view this as a game. She is nice, I am nice back and up the ante by being a little playful and flirty back. I didn’t give up the farm and throw down the red carpet for her. I didn’t say the “I love you” ‘s to her. I’m not being sappy at all. I’m being calm, cool, and collective. I’m being the “ME” that she fell in love with in the first place. Not for her though… for me. This is fun. I get giddy over the idea that this flirting business wrecks havoc with the relationship with OM. The nicer I am, it seems the more controlling and insecure he becomes. I have no proof… just reading the writing on the wall so to speak.

You guys are right though… and I have given this some thought. The dynamics of this thing have certainly changed. I have taken residence in a new and wonderfully comforting place right now… a place called INDIFFERENCE!!! You see, at this point I really don’t much care if she comes home or not. Life goes on and we will be just fine with or with out her. On top of that, logically speaking I know full well that I am probably much, much better off without her anyway. So your right… the question is not what do I need to do to get her home. The question is now what does she need to do… what does she need to show me… what do I have to see in her for me to LET her come back. I like it this way much, much better. The ball is in my court. I am calling the shots. I like being in charge…!!!

Another thing… perhaps the hardest thing about this “game”… as it occurs to me… is that despite how well her and I are getting along, I still need to be thirsty for blood in regards to the divorce and custody evaluation. I still need to go in to the meetings with the evaluator with ice water running through my veins. I WANT BLOOD. Not for spite, but because I truly feel that what I want, what I’m going for, what it is that I am seeking out is really the best thing for the kids. They are my primary focus… the only ones that truly matter in all of this at this point… as far as I’m concerned. As such, I’m not going to soften my position soften just because WW and I are making “goo-goo” eyes at each other… The hardest thing for me is going to be preparing for the fight, while at the same time playing it cool and nice to the WW. It already feels like I am stabbing her in the back… I’m just not this kind of person. I think I just have to remember that the fight is for the kids and not against her.

Any advice on how to do this???

Ughhh... just drove past @ssholes house (remember where he lives... I have to drive past anytime i leave my house) and he was mowing hs lawn. The [censored]'n child he is... he felt the need to hold up his hand int he shape of an "L" towards me... So, what... he was calling me a loser??? He has done this a couple of times to me. Boy if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black... I just smiled and waved. Man, this killing them with kindness is killing me...

(should have just veered the truck into his yard and run his fat, dumb, homewreck'n @ss over.... shoulda....really)

Down, down simmer, down, I know it hurts, but we need to lower the heat.

Your supercharged and need to blow steam off phyiscally. You every right to be angry, totally legit, own it, feel it, release it.

It needs to be released, channeled.

What works for you, heat is risin. Run, swim, baseball, bating cage, golf, gardening... feel the dirt. Get it all out...

PS--- Loved the drive by smile and wave. I have done it. Grace under fire. Feels good.

Underneath it all it is *&*(&$*(@&HUDHJSH_QE-9q8e-

I can feel the emotions.

Too, bad all of us at MB community couldn;t connect and play a community sport. Man with all the torc rage, untapped enegry we all could generate bet we could collectively raise tons of monies for charity...

Your handling thing well! High five <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hey there SD… thanks for the kind words.

UPDATE:

Man last night was a little weird. The kids were with WW this weekend and the town neighboring ours was having a community sort of festival… complete with a rodeo. Well WW, my neighbors (WW’s best friend is my neighbor), and @sshole all took their kids to the rodeo last night. Afterwards WW brings kids over to my neighbor’s house for a bit. I was outside and saw them pull up so I walked over there to say hi to my kids and get a hug and a kiss from them. WW seems fine… in a decent mood and relatively nice and decent towards me. I pick up my son and give him a huge hug right as @sshole drives up and pulls into his driveway… he goes right into his house without a word. I chit chat with WW and the kids for a minute or two… the kids love rodeos and were very excited to tell me all about it… well after a couple of minutes I tell the kids good bye and tell my WW to have a nice night and I go back home. I wasn’t invited to be there and didn’t want to horn in on her time or her get together with the neighbors… and in general I didn’t want to overstay my welcome or for WW to become aggravated… so I left. As I was setting up my sprinklers in my yard, my youngest son was trying to ride the neighbor kids bike but was having some trouble with it as he is too small for that bike. I yell over to him and ask if he wants me to bring him his bike… he says yes and I do. I ask WW to just let me know when they are leaving and I’ll come and get it. I go back home. So there I sit, talking to an MB buddy across the country on the phone, having a beer and watching my sprinklers and WW makes about half a dozen rips to either her car or the neighbors garbage can and spends most of her time looking in my direction. I wave and smile… she waves back… each time. About 45 minutes later my son come to the property line (where the sprinklers were set up) and asks me to come and get his bike. I go over there and WW comes around the corner and stands there… I ask if they are leaving, she says they are soon. I hug and kiss my kids, tell them I love them… in a loud, playful, kinda over the top sort of way that a parent does with their kids. WW pops back around the corner for a second. When I am done with the kids I stick my head around the corner to ask the W to have the kids call me before bed. When I do… there is the @sshole… standing on my neighbors front step… chatting it up with WW and the neighbors… a mere 20 feet from me. I couldn’t believe it. We make eye contact for a split second (felt like about 10 minutes…) and I just say to the WW to have a good night and I’ll talk to her later (very polite and calm, almost cheery voice here…). I did ask her about 5 minutes later from my yard, as she was getting into her car to have the boys call me before bed… she nods in agreement. The MB friend, by the way, was on the phone with me the entire time and COULD NOT BELIEVE this was actually happening and how polite, calm, and in control I remained.

Here is the kicker; I mention all those details to put this next part into perspective… The kids call me about 20 minutes after WW leaves the neighbors. I talk to each of them for about 5 minutes each. WW gets on the phone; she is cold, short, and to the point. I ask her if she had fun this weekend and how the rodeo was… if the kids behaved, ect… She is lightening up a little, then catches herself and goes back being cold. I ask about some details regarding a day that she needs me to pick up and have the kids (on one of her days). This is the same week as my birthday. She mentions to me that she thinks I should use the day to do whatever it is that I want to do with the kids for my birthday. I say to her that the custody evaluator has stated that it is pretty much a given that each parent gets the kids on their birthdays… these types of special event and holidays trump the normal schedule. As such, since my birthday falls on one of her days, I get the kids for at least part of that day anyway….she knows this and yet tells me to forget it, no way, if I disagree then we’ll have to have our lawyers figure it out. Then she starts in on me about being nice to her. How she doesn’t want to be my friend, how she know I’m just going to end up screwing her in the end. She starts rewriting history, telling me how this is all my fault, not even letting me get a word in edge wise. Then she goes to hang up and I manage to sneak in a last second “…have a good night.” …before the hang up click.

I was never at any time mean or angry or defensive. I did disagree, but I didn’t argue. I tried to work out the details with her and she only wanted to fight. Makes me wonder though… what caused the change? Is it fog? Did she just dive back into the fog bank??? And if so, what caused that? What did the @sshole say to her???? I mean after he pulls up and I’m there right next to my WW and holding our son while joking with her… then I am nothing but sweet and nice to her while he is standing there 20 feet away… I can’t help but think that this dude must be rather insecure about the R with the WW… so I expect this stuff to bother him… hell, that is half the reason for doing it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> But wow, what causes the change in the WW? How do I deal with it? If I’m plan A-ing… how do you respond or deal with the angry outbursts and revisionist history of the WS? Any thoughts here…???