I should have also mentioned she had no desire to go to MC. In hindsight this was huge. I mean, why stay someone who you really cannot talk to about important issues between 2 people in front of a professional, I mean why not at least TRY?

I was trying to follow the Plan A thing for about 8 months (but I did not expose the A early on) and was probably viewed as a complete idiot by her and was enabling her A to continue. I finally wised up about 1 month ago and we filed jointly for a D..and I have gone totally dark, sort of Plan B-like..now I am starting to hear small peeps from her that maybe she is second guessing the D thing. Too late in my book!

I would really be on guard and search and snoop...and then confront her with your evidence if it is ongoing. Does she use a cell phone? Do you have access to it or the call log? Again, my wife hid these from me which of course you would not do if you had nothing to hide.

So, be careful out there....and start thinking of yourself and not her so much. Big, big lesson for me to learn...and I am now living it, meeting new people, a few women, having fun again, etc.

I love your line about being secret agent man. You gave me a good laugh with that one.

OK the female 2 cents worth (and I do fear we are getting off track here)

She knows full well that after you have been holding her for a while you are going to be ready to kick it up a notch. That is no secret. Not unique to you. That doesn't make you some sort of sex starved monster - just a man. (ok, it happens to women too, but you don't want hear about that right now)
I also agree with this:
course of the A my drive and desire for her GREW IMMENSELY.
It happened to me as well - with my WH. As soon as he was gone, that was all I could think about. I think part of it is a desire to prove that you are desireable - that you can be "better" than the other person. But after throwing myself at WH numerous times, only to be rejected (he would tell me that he ahd "committed himself to someone else". Apparantly in his mind he could committ himself to anyone, at anytime, regardless of the whole marriage vow thing. Where do they come up with that stuff?

I don't think I was any help this time - only wanted to share that as a WS - I had the same increase in desire that you two have had.
Only I was not wise enough to turn secret agent, shop at night, etc.......

WICKED WEEKEND!

and no, it's not a good thing. Spent time together Friday night and things came to a head again. I asked WW if she had sent a NC letter to OM and she said yes that she'd done it earlier that day. We had a discussion on the other topics (deciding if she could be satisified with me and meeting my needs) and things went downhill fast. She stated that she had to take small steps in order for her to be comfortable. Also stated no SF until we established emotionally intimacy (?). I told her it was difficult for me to lay it all down on the table and trust her not to hurt me and she stated she was afraid of doing the same based upon her fear that I would abandon her. I told her that 'Something had to give'.

Nothing forthcoming. Then WW states that she couldn't do anything while DD was living there. That she has a problem focusing on me while DD needs attention as well. She say after DD moves out she would be able to focus on me.

ARGH!!!!!

I blew it. Told her I was done. Told her that this was just another excuse for not doing anything about us. Told her that after DD moves out there will just be another excuse for her not to do anything. Told her I wasn't going to wait around to see what the next excuse would be. Told her to sign the papers and let's be done.

She agreed! She said she was tired of the whole thing. Said she'd had it with me pushing her. Always talking about what I needed.

Then she signed one of the papers (one that did not have to be notarized) and agreed to go with me the next day to sign the rest.

UGH!

I was shocked and very unprepared. I waffled.

Spent the night and the next day spent the day together shopping and stuff. No relationship talk at all and had a fairly good time. That evening no talk and she asked me to spend the night again. I laid in bed with her while she fell asleep, but then decided to protect myself a bit and left.

Went back over there last night to talk to DD and watched a movie. After the movie WW asked me to spend the night and I said no. She looked a little upset, but didn't push it.


So here I am again. Right back where I've spent the last 18 months. No needs being met and no progress in sight.

It doesn't sound all bad. You needed to get some stuff off your chest - and you did. You needed to speak up for yourself. You didn't say anything wrong - she has been neglecting you, and she always has an excuse, and if DD were to move out tomorow she would still have another excuse.
The only thing that might not have been a good idea is your question to her about "are you willing to start working on my needs". I'm not saying that is a bad thing to ask - it just doesn't seem to be consistant with the MB prinicpals. The way I understand it, when the WS first goes NC, they have a time of withdrawl, and during that time they are not able to work on your emoitonal needs. If she just wrote the letter Friday, then she is going to start the withdrawls now, and this is not the time to work on your emotional needs. That is the way I udnerstand it anyway.
However - you may be getting to the point where you have waited long enough, and need her to "throw you a bone". No one could argue with you there.
I do think it is time to stop sleeping over there - after all, she agreed to sign the papers Friday. She told you she was tired of being pushed into it. She needs to be faced with reality. Once the D is final there will be no more sleepvers! I am thinking that she needs to find out right now what it is going to be like. I don't know if I am saying to go completely dark - but you are sleeping over, and going shopping,and helping around the house. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal for her. Wish I could get a realtionship like that. Free to go out with anyone she wants. Doesn't have to contribute to your realtionship on an emotinal level, and yet she still has someone to help out around the house, go shopping with her, and even spend the night so she never has to feel that awful lonliness.
I don't think she really understands what a divorce is - that she will be ON HER OWN!
You need to insist on the MC - sounds like that needs to be a deal breaker. She needs counseling. Not only to deal with her own marriage crisis - but also that of the DD. How in the heck can she support her daughter, and give her adivce on healing,when she is such a mess in her own relationship?
I would be getting an appointment with a counselor for this week before you get really fed up with the whole mess.

womanoffaith5,

A bone would be nice. Oh a bone... yes a bone! A lucious, flavorful bone. Bone. Yum.

Ok, I've been good! No sleep over's, even though she still ask's every night (uh, ok the last 2 night's doesn't quite equate to *every* night). I politely decline and when she ask's I reply that under the current circumstances it just doesn't feel right. She hate's that answer.

Went over there last night after work. She wasn't home yet so DD and I sat talking. WW came home and we exchanged 'hi's' but I didn't get up to greet her. She was very distant and aloof, but I tried to act like it didn't affect me. Later she just went to bed without saying a word. I went in to bedroom to get my keys to leave and she hit me up to stay. She then walked me to the door and stopped me as I was leaving to give me a kiss on the cheek.

WooT! A CHEEK KISS! Glory!

Anyway......

Today I decided it's time for another counseling approch. Wrote counseler an email asking for her open appt times (getting several) and then post an email to WW asking if she'd be interested. WW replied that it'd be ok as long as it didn't interfere with work. I sent her the appt times and she declined all of them. Told me that she only wants evenings.

Ugh, still trying.

*hugs harrys
aww harry, youre going thru alot right now and i just wanted to say that i feel for you and send you all the warmest wishes of getting thru this that i can.
you have been kind in your posts to me and for that i thank you... good luck with your ww... i place no comments on your ww... just the wish that you get thru this.
mtinside <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

MT! aka sheildmaiden?

What's up with that? Sounds like your headed to war or something like that. Now that you've landed on my thread I expect constant advice and good karma.

BTW what's up with the no comment? I don't stand on ceremony here girl, kick your shoes off and tell me what you REALLY think.

Ok.... Went over there last night. I decided I'd be a nice guy and stopped by the store to pick up ant killer for the lawn and a bag of fertilizer since I know she'd not done it yet.

Got there and spent a few minutes talking with DD. WW was in bathroom (door open) so I went in there to say hi. Changed clothes (into grungy holey clothes) and went out to strut my Mr. Lawncare persona. After that I came in and she was in the office doing some work. I asked if she'd had dinner yet and she said no. I asked if she had anything planned for dinner and again she said no. I asked if she'd like me to make dinner and she said "if I wanted to".

Man I love these intense conversations. She was very subdued all evening, but I refused to comment on it. Maybe it's the withdrawl from OM, or maybe it's more guilt.

Went in and made dinner for DD, WW and myself. While I was doing that I took the trash out, cleaned under the fridge and organized the spice cabinet. Dinner done called everyone to eat and talked with DD since WW seemed very distant and subdued. I did try to draw her out, but was met with flipish curt answers.

After dinner I decided I was done being handyman and play some xbox with DD. After a bit of this I decided to leave. WW was still in office and I went and told her goodbye. She hit me up again to stay which I declined polietly. Got a lip brush kiss as I left.

WooT! Lips touched! That's like 2nd base right?

Counseler called and gave me another appt. sent that to WW, but haven't heard back from her.

ARRRRGGGHHH!!!!


WW never sent me answer back so I called her. She says she's just too busy to take time off work to go to counseling.

Told WW
"Well I guess I know where I stand on your priority list and how much interest you have in putting our marriage together" then hung up.

I'm just about done, actually I think I'm overdone. I am not going over there tonight, nor will I call her again.

I'm going dark.

Oh, I forgot. Got a new neighbor in the apt next to me. She's cute <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and likes my smile. Too young, but I do like the occassional ego boost. She even gave me a cookie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

HARRY!!!
Go back to being secret agent man <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> - hide behind the bushes when the neighbor comes out so you don't run into her. If she offers another cookie, take it and throw it out in the street, screaming at the top of your lungs "POISON! SHE IS TRYING TO KILL ME!"
You are still doing great - IMO. You are taking control back of your life. You are pulling yourself up from the door mat. WW is starting to show signs of chasing you - a little tiny bit - cheek kiss, lips brush. She is starting to see what the future holds without Harry - she may even have to go to the Walmart and buy a new damn door mat!! Just for fun - why don't you go buy her a new door mat. That way every time you go over there you can look at it and smile to yourself, knowing that it holds a hidden joke. (I really am bad).
I also would like to take a minute to clarify something - you say that as lawn care man you bought a bag of fertilizer, and stopped by the house to put it on the front lawn. In other words (you know whats coming here, don't you?)
You stopped by the house with a bag of $hit! And threw it on the lawn!
I crack myself up.
I am just trying to make you smile. Sometimes, we all take ourselves so seriously that we forget to take time to laugh.
I also want to jack your thread for a second - you were very kind in your response to me on my other thread, where I talk about how my now ex BF has a "problem with my weight". Rest assured, he is no longer on the list of eligible men for this woman. On a happy note - I did want to lose 20 pounds, and I am down 7 pounds with only 13 more to go. Not that HE will ever get to appreciate it!
Ok, I'm done now.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

womanoffaith5:

Kind? I was being kind? Hummmmmmmm.. I might need to reassess somethings here.

WTG with curbing that A$$. You know if it wasn't the weight he'd be on something else. You know your size may change, but he'll always be a jerk.

People like that are never satisified no matter what you do. The #1 thing is being happy with yourself as you are and the rest will follow.

As for the cookie girl...

Refuse a cookie? Throw it in the street? Your KIDDING!

Cookies are my weakness, but brownies are my kryptonite. Either one will get my full attention, but the later will keep it.

Please go back and reread my previous posts.

IMO, you will only continue to hurt yourself by your seemingly "nice guy" approach. Stay dark, please do not call her or go over there.

This will be hard, I am also doing this as we speak...but then again, I have already filed and moved away from LIMBO LAND...where you always are LOST!

My sincerest wishes to your happiness.

Nature

p.s.
the following advice, recently given to me by a good friend, would be well used the next time you are offered a "cookie, little boy" or even, the "gasp" devils own dreaded brownie from hell:

note, if I'm ever asked about weight in any way I suddenly get short of breath, roll my eyes back in my head and grab my chest and if that doesn't work I start slapping my head with a handy salmon)

Only, instead of "asked about my weight" please insert "asked about a tasty little treat"

I am on a roll today.......

Nature:

I too have already filed divorce on my WW. Here in Texas there is a 60 day waiting period (that has expired) and all I need to do now is get her to sign the papers. Then I go before the judge and fini.

BUT

Here's the rub... I'm not 100% positive I want to walk away just yet. Granted I'm about 98%, but that last 2% nags me. Something tells me she's about to fall off the fence, which way I'm not sure, but I'd hate to be the one to nail this while there was something left to be saved. I still love her and guess I always will, but turning my back on her just yet is not something I'm completely comfortable with.

womanoffaith5:

Hey you... I'm safe and even have another cookie to boot! She was outside when I came home from work tonight and we chatted a bit. She's from out of state and going to college. Just moved here and has no friends, but here's the kicker... she's only 18 (same age as my youngest daughter) so she's safe. No way I'd ever, or in her case she'd ever cross that line. Age difference is just too much.

So with that said I have a new cookie friend and someone safe to chat with.

So roll on girlfriend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

No call from WW tonight, stayed here at the apt and caught up on some work. Trying to keep that whole thing on the back burner for a bit.

<small>[ July 14, 2004, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: HarryS ]</small>

Nature:

I too have already filed divorce on my WW. Here in Texas there is a 60 waiting period (that has expired) and all I need to do now is get her to sign the papers. Then I go before the judge and fini.

BUT

Here's the rub... I'm not 100% positive I want to walk away just yet. Granted I'm about 98%, but that last 2% nags me. Something tells me she's about to fall off the fence, which way I'm not sure, but I'd hate to be the one to nail this while there was something left to be saved. I still love her and guess I always will, but turning my back on her just yet is not something I'm completely comfortable with.

womanoffaith5:

Hey you... I'm safe and even have another cookie to boot! She was outside when I came home from work tonight and we chatted a bit. She's from out of state and going to college. Just moved here and has no friends, but here's the kicker... she's only 18 (same age as my youngest daughter) so she's safe. No way I'd ever, or in her case she'd ever cross that line. Age difference is just too much.

So with that said I have a new cookie friend and someone safe to chat with.

So roll on girlfriend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

No call from WW tonight, stayed here that the apt and caught up on some work. Trying to keep that whole thing on the back burner for a bit.

Well done Harry S. - Well done
I guess the occasional cookie thrown your way ain't all bad.

do I denote a bit of sarcasam there?

Ugh.

2x4 time?

I hope it all works out for you. I can only say to keep snooping and decide for yourself if you can stay with someone who has continually lied and deceived you....that was my final boundary line and I decided enough is enough...but only you will know when you are ready.

I, like you, always wanted to save my M....but finally realized it takes 2 to make it work...my WS returns next weekend from a 3 month out of state internship (she returned here 4x and I spent 3 of those weekends with her but blew her off the last one as I found out she was already seeing a new guy...who apparently just dumped her). So, my conviction is clear. I think this may be what is now attracting her (a little bit)...I do not call, phone, etc. and have stayed in the dark...meanwhile the papers were filed 31 days ago and we just turned in our financial disclosures.

Is there a chance our M could be saved? Slim at best. I mean, how can these WS' change? They are habitual liars for god sake! I cannot forget this simple fact.

Brace yourself if you decide to stay in this rollercoaster. I got off about 5 weeks ago and feel better, at least most of the time. It helps to get out and meet new people...I actually met a 25 year old and took her on a date, good to know I still have what it takes!!

Good luck.

No sarcasm intended - its not my style. It sounds like you are being cautious, and that is a good thing.
believe me - I am good at handing out advice, but not so good at following it!

Nature:

I got off the rollercoaster a couple of times. First time when I filed D back in Jan. I stayed off for about 7 weeks and yes, I had a great time. I let myself get pulled back on in March. She said a bunch of stuff that made me think she was going to work on it. Just talk. Talk, talk, talk. No actions to back it up. I bailed again in April and had a pretty good 4 weeks. Then in May (our anniversary) I let her pull me back on. More talk. No Actions.

I got off again about 2 weeks later and preped myself for the final round. Right before I was about to finish it for good, I got pulled back on with a family crisis which I'm still dealing with.

All I can say is that I'm sure glad they don't charge you each time you get back on, cause I'd be poor now.

Ms. Faith:

Ok fine, give me some advice not to follow, or cough up a cookie.

MT:

Where ya at girl? I need an update on Mr. Wrong and Mr. Wronger. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Well, I feel for you, I really do. I guess you can only say "enough is enough"...and truly stick to it. That is what I have been trying to recommend because it is obvious she is still not willing to work on your M. So, why try to save it on your own? This will not work, it will always be one-sided. Take a leave of absence and go get a new L...SERIOUSLY!!!! This may be the wakeup call she needs. If anything, now begin to take care of yourself, worry about yourself and you only. I know you have a family sitch as well, and of course you need to deal with that too....but, really try and begin to think of you, not her or the M....and you know this will help you whether you stay together or not.

I know I am also vulnerable...and realize my WS returns soon...so my plan is to stay away as much as I can and keep busy with my daily routines.

Do no forget how deceptive these people have become...they only think of themselves, not us, the BS....only they can wake themselves up. So, words are meaningless in my book. Only action will suffice, and Time is running out.

So, get out and smell the roses today while you can!!!