My XH met with the Guardian ad Litem today and low and behold I get a phone call this evening from him asking if I would be willing to sit down and work this custody thing out with him. He goes into a long speech on how we will waste thousands of dollars, hurt the kids, put their future in a stanger's hands, etc., etc.

I calmly tell him that I really don't think we have anything to talk about and that the time for talking was months ago before he started this whole legal fiasco. As usual he says it is time to put the past behind us and now work together in the best interest of the kids.

I ask him what he wants and he tells me he is totally flexible and wants only what is best for the kids. I ask him to explain what that is and he says 50/50. I tell him that I disagree and am not going to go into it again. I told him that if and when he legitimately wants to sit down with the kids' best interests in mind I'll think about it, but for now I wasn't interested.

He then blew and went into a string of insults about me, my selfishness, my parenting, my housekeeping, you name it. I told him that he could hurl whatever insults he wanted, but it wasn't changing anything.

He told me he couldn't believe I would keep a good father from his children. I reminded him that he drew up our present arrangement and that he sees them twice weekly, with every other weekend, plus he calls them regularly, they are free to call him, but much to his dismay rarely do, I keep him supplied with all their activity schedules, and I go out of my way to accomodate his requests whenever possible. I am hardly keeping him from them.

I told him that although I am pleased that he is making attempts to turn his life around that doesn't mean he simply gets to have everything his way. He has been inconsistent at best and although I believe they deserve a relationship with him, I do not believe it is in their best interests for it to be 50/50.

He was unruly and rude for most of the conversation. I did my best not to throw back the insults, but I am not going to lie to him. Once again he told me I was unreasonable and I told him since his definition of unreasonable means not giving him his way there really is nothing I can do about it, nor do I care. I told him that is OW's problem now.

Obviously he didn't hear what he wanted from the Guardian ad Litem and is hoping to deal with me because he is worried about what he will be handed in court. I am sorry, I simply won't do it. My kids' futures are at stake here. I would rather spend thousands of dollars and keep them stable then bow to his pressure.

I guess I really don't have a point here and am not saying anything new, it just really irritates me that he won't get it. How many people need to tell him?

Thanks for letting me vent!

Take care and God bless!
K

still, venting is good!!!!

Sounds like you did a steller job in keeping your cool. I don't know if you know anything about Love and Logic for discpline, but it makes the person responsible for their own behavior and you are to ask questions to make them think about their behavior. My x hates it when I use it on him and so does my son, but it works and puts everything back on them where it belongs.

My friend has an x that sounds a lot like yours and when he starts on the insults she tells him if he cannot speak to her nicely or with respect she is going to hang up on him, that she does not need to take his abuse any longer and she hangs up. The next couple of times he talks much nicer but then by the 3rd time he lose it and starts with the insults or what ever. It kills him that she stays so calm and does not attack back, gives him nothing to use against her!!!

Anyways wanted you to know that someone had read your vent and can understand where you are coming from!!!

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Great boundaries.
And you are probably right. He didn't hear what he wanted, so he thinks he can get it from you.
These people threaten to use the courts, but then don't recognize the court's authority. And if they do, it just gives them someone else to blame.

Keep on the high road. It's working. Yeah!

Thanks for the replies daybreak and newly. You two are so right boundaries are great things. I did get to a point where I told him I was going to hang up yesterday, but he backed down quickly only to build up again. I did loose it myself briefly. He said we were equal parents and it was time I accepted it. I totally snapped. I told him that the only thing that we were equal as parents for was the fact that we both are their biological parents. I told him from the time that I got pregnant with our first child we have never been equal parents, during our marriage we were never equal parents, during our separation we were never equal parents, and since our divorce we have never been equal parents and I am sick and tired of hearing him say it. I can honestly say he was temporarily speechless.

I guess after dealing with the stress of living under the threat of this coming for over a year now, now that it is here it is almost calming. Each step of the way I am hearing more support of me. I know it shouldn't surprise me, but this is such an important deal that my paranoia has set in many times and I fear that someone will believe his line of bull.

When I listen to him it is scarey as he really believes the things he says. He has rewritten our history to make him seem like a totally different person than he really is.

He is such a manipulator and I know he still tries to manipulate me as I always allowed it when we were married and I am assuming it works with his new wife as well. He comes on all quiet and acting like we are friends. His whole tone is different. Then when he doesn't get his way he turns into such a bully. I have long abandoned listening to the negative things he says about me as they simply aren't true. He had so much control during our marriage and I know it drives him nuts now to see that he has none over me. I have to admit to seeing him react so is so empowering to me, oh how the tables have turned!

I get to see him tonight as the kids go with him for four hours. It will be interesting to see how he acts. He has had a night to ponder things. He is very impulsive and acts without thinking, that is what yesterday's call was about. He basically came home from his appointment and called me without even taking the time to digest what had been said - big mistake. I don't want to get over confident as he is really sneaky and only God knows what he'll resort to as the walls start closing in, but so far justice is being served and doing the right thing has prevailed. I hope this continues.

Take care and God bless!
K

Well, I've seen the XH three times since Monday for drop offs and pick ups and he hasn't said boo to me about talking. I see him in a couple of hours so it will be interesting if he says something. His pattern is to bring something up and then give me a few days before bringing it up again.

Yesterday my six year old threw a major fit. When I calmed her down and was talking about how it wasn't acceptable etc. she looks at me and says, "Well I can't do it at dad's because he has rules." I looked at her and asked her what she meant because we have plenty of rules and she said, "Well that's what I thought, but Dad says you don't have any rules." I looked right at her and said, "Well your dad must have misunderstood something because we have lots of rules" and then I went on to name some. She was like, See, I knew you had rules, I'll have to tell Dad."

I could just strangle him. Now he's loosing in the courts so he's bashing me to the kids. I haven't called him on it because it would be wasted breath. He'd deny ever saying it saying it was our daughter who got things confused. I just want to be done with him, he can be such a jerk!

Take care and God bless!
K

Second verse, same as the first...........

You know the drill.

Don't talk to ex - unless you absolutely have to - otherwise, you run the risk of actually starting to believe the lies that he says - even though you know they are not true.

Stand your ground. Hold firm to those boundaries.

Oh, and did I say don't talk to ex unless you absolutely have to...... use e-mail about the important stuff. Remember, there is NOTHING that you really have to talk about in person.

This is still too weird.. every time I read one of your posts it's like de ja vu.

Keep strong.

K

Hi K-

Thanks so much for reminding me of how important it is for my well being not to talk to my XH. He is so manipulative and controlling and it does me absolutely no good to talk to him, try to be fair, etc. I truly believe he believes all the things he says - YIKES! Denial is such a powerful thing!

I am trusting God to see the kids and I through this and I am reinforcing those boundaries. Oh, what great things they are.

Thanks again for the reminder friend!

Take care and God bless!
K

Oh my GOSH....our husbands (ex) have to be clones. He says and does the exact same things. Remarkable.

I always have to be wary when he is nice...there is always something coming in the near future...And if he doesn't get his way..he is pretty ugly.

He has said the exact same thing to me about being equal parents now and when we were married. What a crock!!!He was never home, and when he was, he often didn't participate a lot. He has also informed me that he and bimbo provide the kids with a stable environment. Well--we know that is out to lunch. His comments never cease to amaze me.

Take care Pat

You are so right Pat-

Now I am hearing that his OW wife has been telling people that the kids need to be with them more because they too provide the more stable and structured environment. Whatever! The scariest thing is that they believe the bull they spread.

My XH was rarely home either and when he was he was generally uninvolved. Now his wings are clipped as he hasn't had a driver's license for a year and a half and still has to wait a year. Therefore he is dependent on wifey to run him around and basically tied to home.

Since his wings are clipped he is bored and says he wants the kids more. I guess they make a nice time filler. Yet when the kids talk about stuff at their house they say that it is the new wife making all the decisions and doing most of the parenting. They talk about Dad napping and all the excuses that I used to hear. It makes me so irritated.

I spent yesterday, at the request of the Guardian ad Litem, going through my documentation and locating actual requests by my XH for extra visitation. The Guardian wants to have proof of how much extra time my XH has actually spent with them and trust me it isn't that much. It was however a total pain in the butt to read over my stuff and find it. Yet another example of how he starts all this stuff and I have to do the leg work. It was the same way with our divorce. UGH! Will it ever end?

Thanks for responding.

Take care and God bless!
K

Hey Pat-

This is too weird, but in addition to our XH's being alcoholics and their other similarities, I just read in another post that you are a teacher. Me too. Ironic isn't it?

Take care and God bless!
K

SR and Pat:

I read through this post and a strange thought came over me....

Why are either of you even the slighest bit concerned over the loss of these men? Sure there is a history and they are the fathers to your children, BUT and I mean a really BIG BUT... they made choices to become something less than what you signed up for. They chose the easy way and due to their choices they fell prey to declining values. They are like a sinking ship that you are tied to. You can let them pull you down, or you can cast off the lines that tie you together and sail off on your own. There are men out there that are stronger than that and both of you deserve more from life.

Being a BS myself and dealing with my WW's A is hard enough, but if she were an alcoholic as well I would seriously have to reassess my situation. I mean yes I love her, but do I really want to bring a person like that back into my life? Into my children's lives?

Well in my case...there was bad and there was good. It is just hard to get rid of the "complete family" ideal in my head. I do miss our life as a family....altho you are right...definitely could have been better. We could have been a great family--in fact, people thought we were. I miss that. I don't miss the alcoholic mess, the verbal abuse, the unpredictability that usually just the kids and I saw.

Still working on getting that man that I truely loved out of my head...and replacing him with the lowlife he has become. He doesn't feel like he has done anything wrong either--deserved to be happy. He still doesn't sound very happy now tho either--of course he still blames that on me. His relationship with his kids is awful--I wouldn't want to be in that position at all.

My ex believes all the hogwash coming out of his mouth also. He has rewritten history...and I think he believes it. He has told so many lies and has convinced his mistress (now wife) of all of this crap. I think he is mentally ill. I think it is the only way he can live with himself. Pretty sad.

K...we also had an ad litem for the kids. She was an airhead...fell for my husband hook line and sinker. He is a good looking man and can come across as being so genuine. He used to be a pilot and he can be very believable. He used to whine to her all the time about the kids visitation--and how I was obstructing him and interferring. He couldn't stand that the kids loved me unconditionally and would run to me at games and such when he was supposed to have them. He tried to get me barred from their activities when he had them. Didn't work. Right before we went to trial, the lawyers met with my kids and interviewed them for 4 hours--and they gave testimony on tons of things I didn't even know they knew about. I was sitting in the lobby, had no clue what was said until later. The following week (my last week of school by the way), my lawyer made a settlement with my ex's because of the kids' testimony. My lawyer said that he would have been masaquered in court based on their testmonies(which was to have been in front of a judge only) When we went to court to sign papers--the ad litem came up to me when it was over , tapped me on the shoulder and said "You are a great mother...keep up the good work". I guess the truth does eventually does come out. That gesture meant a lot to me because until that time it seemed that everyone believed the crap he was throwing out.

This is getting to be long....you are probably already doing this...but this is what I have had to do with my ex....because he is still trying to manipulate, and control...and twist everything around.

1. I keep an incident log on the computer and jot down daily events with him. It doesn't take long...I record incidents when he has talked to the kids on the phone, weekend visits with him. Times when he has brought the kids back early, times when he has cancelled his visitation. Angry phone calls, drunken phone calls. I jot down info my oldest daughter tells me from college. When he has called her 5 and 6 times at school drunk.

2. This summer I have also started a notebook where I record all expenses I pay for the kids, the money he has sent me for child support or lack of money he has sent.

3. I have a 3 ring binder where I put copies of the bills I have paid for the kids and the bills I have sent him to pay.

This sounds excessive...but it has saved me 3 different times. One time I got a letter from his lawyer threatening to take me back to court on contempt charges because I wasn't allowing my ex his visitation rights and wouldn't allow the kids to call him. Luckily, I turned on the computer and printed off 20 pages of entries that showed his visitation and phone calls with the kids.

The thing I didn't do was save this...and when my computer went down this summer--I really panicked. Now I make a hard copy periodically and also save it to a disk.

My ex is behaving the same way right now. He finally emailed me when he would like the kids for his two week visitation. He wants to pick them up on the 26 and then he said he has to shorten it and bring them back on the 6th. He then demanded that I drive them up to the airport and come back and pick them up from the airport.

I wrote back to him and told him that the kids have activities that week that they would like to attend. (He wants to bring them up to his parents home on the east coast). I also told him it wasn't my responsibility to drive them to the airport--it is 1 1/2 hours away. I emailed him again saying that he could stay here and get the kids to their activities. (My son wants to attend his baseball championship tournament--they went undefeated this summer).

He wrote back saying, "Understand you refuse to give me the kids for my visitation. Understand you refuse to help me out by bringing the kids to the airport"....Guarantee I will get a letter from his lawyer saying how I have obstructed his visitation again.

It never ends---so keep your documentation. Since I started doing that he doesn't do it half as much as he used to.

Sorry for the long post. Take care Pat

Harry-

Let me clarify. There is not part of me that longs for my XH or what we had. Yes, I was very codependent and have worked long and hard to break free of the hold he had on me, but since I have I realized it I have discovered it was definately his loss, not mine. Life is good without him. The only thing I want from him now is to leave me alone and to let the kids enjoy the stability they are now enjoying.

Movinon-

Thanks for all the ideas. I do actually do everything you have said, it can be so annoying at times, but is definately needed. Also, once I made it a habit it got a lot easier. I can't imagine pulling the things out of memory that I was able to pull up off of my logs for the Guardian ad Litem just yesterday.

You know, denial is a wonderful thing. I get so infuriated at times as I listen to the crud my XH throws out about our history together and his parenting ability. To hear the OW wife support it and believe it too is almost nausiating!

My Guardian ad Litem has been great so far. He seems to be really on top of things and luckily since he is a male, doesn't seem to be effected by my XH's manipulative personality. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I haven't heard another peep out of my XH about talking. It has been a week and a half. Hopefully he has gotten the point. Unfortunately his attorney is known to be a bit lazy and money hungry so I can see them fighting it until the very end. I keep praying for them to gain clarity and stop this nonsense.

My XH and I only live five minutes apart so we haven't had too many issues with visitation. I also have really tried my hardest to work with him and he is finding that his claims of my interference are falling on deaf ears as they simply aren't true and I have proof to back me up.

I really feel for everyone who has to endure this. My XH got what he wanted, but it still wasn't enough. The fact that he can change his mind and with the simple filing of a paper, get all of this reopened, leading to all the problems, stress, work, and costs that come with it is really infuriating.

Take care and God bless!
K

wow, thanks all. i feel much less alone and silly with this kind of struggle. husband is not alcoholic, but behaves just like those described in this post and replies... i can identify a lot! so sorry we ended up this way, but really ready to make life better. have been feeling a bit bad about the feeling of sneaking around to make preparations (i have to be ready to leave the moment i have the conversation with him... i am not sure i will even be physically safe), but i know i have to do it to protect myself. gotto go now. thanks, thanks, thanks.

kwi-

You are not alone. Come here for advice and support. Take care of yourself and your children and stay safe. Keep us posted.

Take care and God bless!
K

Maybe there should be a test?

Yes! Like they used to do blood tests maybe there should be an abuse and alcoholics test prior to marriage.

If we as a society start treating alcoholics and abusers like the leapers and outcasts they should be treated like we will be a much richer society.

I'm sorry for my stance here. I've seen too much evil and pain wrought by this to take a compassionate stand on it. This is a hard core issue that requires an iron rod, not a kid glove.

Way to keep your cool!!! Remember to document everything......most important keep track of his phone calls what he says to you the verbal abuse. If possible don't answer your phone when he calls and hopefully he will leave messages that you can keep and let the courts know about them. The Guardian program has worked for us. We now have full custody of my step-son because of all the documentation I kept and her phone calls where she was caught lying many times. Kids need structure and stability that 50/50 junk is just too hard on them. So keep up the great work and good luck!!!

LSchmidt-

Thanks for the support and advice. Unfortunately my XH is a master manipulator and keeps his cool whenever he thinks someone might over hear. He never leaves incriminating voice messages, nor does he write. He is sneaky so it is basically his word against mine, but thankfully I have the better reputation both socially and criminally so people are seemingly listening to me.

Luckily I do have documentation that proves he really hasn't taken as active a role in the kids' lives as her portrays and also proves me to not be hindering his relationship as he claims.

I am hoping the Guardian system will work for me as it has for you. Thanks again for the support.

Take care and God bless!
K

Harry-

I happen to believe in what you are saying. I know the hell my XH's addictions put our family through and now I watch him starting all over again with the same lies and manipulations. It really is a tragedy. Unfortunately many good people are sucked in by toxic people like my XH.

Take care and God bless!
K