I ask myself how is it possible? and why do I stay? What is wrong with me? and others wonder why? When most people know they cant believe their ears...They say you are to good for that you can have anyone! what is wrong with him is he blind? I begin to think something is wrong with me and that I dont deserve to be loved by the one that I love! It must be a sickness.. that is all I can come up with.

There is something wrong with you to stay and love a person who hurts you. I have been in an abusive relationship as well. I think that the underlying cause is win-lose thinking, not being able to see that there is a possibility of finding win-win solutions to problems. I also think I thought that I could change my behavior so that my H was not abusive. Not true. The change had to come from him. It started when he broke my arm. He realized that he had done it and nothing I could have done deserved that.

Here are two books that might help:
Angry All the Time
Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders

Here's something I typed up from Harley's radio show:
Bill: Why do people do things that hurt other people? And the answer is that part of it is we don’t care about other people. We only care about ourselves, and when we are only caring about ourselves and we’re not caring about other people, people should run for cover. And the question is: What is it we can do to make ourselves safe in relationships with other people and that is to create environmental factors – environmental rules, regulations – to live by that consciously and purposely protect other people from our own selfish instincts.

Joyce: What is the percentage – How successful can couples be after infidelity and having a good marriage? … An affair happens in your marriage. What is the likelihood of success that your marriage will become happy again and maybe even better than before the infidelity?

Bill: It’s very low, very low. Most couples that have affairs end their marriage in
divorce. Most of those that remain remain unhappy…

Joyce: I seem to get the impression that her husband is blaming her for not being happy with the infidelity…

Bill: Not being happy with her so he ends up -- he says he’s not happy with her so has an affair

Joyce: Oh, so it’s her fault he’s having an affair…

Bill: And if she’d be a little more cooperative I wouldn’t be having so many affairs… And it’s the same argument people use that are physically abusive. Basically, if my wife would stop irritating me, I wouldn’t be beating her as much. The question is: What can she do to get him to quit having affairs? The answer is: Nothing. There’s nothing she can do. It’s really all in his court. If he has one affair, my argument has always been that that is sufficient to divorce. Now, the question is: Does he want to straighten things out with her? If he does, then the question is: What does he have to do? Well, he has to never see or talk to the lover again. He has to create extraordinary precautions, make sure he doesn’t have that affair rekindled or any other affair and he has to make sure their marriage is restored. When somebody has an affair, it isn’t so much what should the person who is betrayed, what should they do, to get him to stop having an affair.. Yes, indeed, you need to have emotional needs met, but it’s still no excuse for having an affair.

Joyce: And it sounds to me like he is just using his wife as an excuse to justify what he really wants to be doing – and he doesn’t want to be faithful.

Bill: Yeah. And anybody that says, well, the reason that I hit you is because of what you did or what you said, it’s the same kind of a thing. The first step toward overcoming domestic violence is to recognize that there are no excuses for domestic violence…What’s the first step in anger management counseling? And that is to convince the violent spouse that they have no right ever hurting their spouse regardless of what their spouse may have said or done.

Joyce: But how do you convince them of that if they can always justify their outburst of anger?

Bill: This is where counseling is important. Counseling from my perspective is an opportunity to change somebody’s mind, to change somebody’s thoughts, to change somebody’s attitudes, to change them. And a lot of times you got to begin with their attitudes. But that’s not where you end. You can’t end with attitudes, because you have to end with behavior. I’ve known a lot of people that fully believe that they should not be beating their wife, and yet they can’t stop because they haven’t learned to stop doing that…So the first step is to recognize that there is no excuse for an affair. If her husband were to tell me, every time I have an affair, I feel guilty, I feel like I’ve sinned against God, I’ve sinned against my wife, I’ve sinned against my children, I’m a horrible person to be doing this. Then I would say, “Now, what we have to do is create an environment where you’re not going to have another affair. And it’s going to be very restrictive, at least at first. You’re basically going to be watched 24 hours a day. You’re not going to be able to do and say what you want to say. It’s just like with helping a person overcome addiction to alcohol. You can’t be working in a bar when you are trying to recover from being an alcoholic. This woman’s husband says, “It’s your fault that I’m having an affair.” And I’d say, “What can she do to get him to stop?” And the answer is “Absolutely nothing. There’s nothing she can do. She has to walk away. She has to turn her back and walk away from him. Otherwise, she’s going to continue to be hurt by him the rest of their lives. The same thing is true of men that beat their wives. The same thing is true with men or woman who are verbally abusive. The question is: “How do I get my spouse to stop being abusive? How do I get my spouse to stop hurting me?” The answer is, “There’s nothing you can do. It’s all on the part of the person who is doing the damage.”

Cherished

<small>[ July 18, 2004, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

Hey Torie,
Nope, you are not blind but you are vulnerable... you love your spouse and you are stuck in a dynamic which has been encouraged by the two of you... every abusive situation has the active abuser and the passive recipient of that abuse which only encourages more abuse. If you think you do not deserve to be loved, it is because your situation is having it's effect on you. If you read any documentation on abusive situations, you will read that every abused person's self esteem, sense of self-worth is destroyed. It's only natural, after-all, in our minds know "we do not hurt the ones we love and the ones which are important to us... we value and cherish them instead." It's normal that you are feeling unworthy of being loved. BUT let me tell you something here because your mind is confused and your spirit down, maybe broken... YOU are worthy of love, everyone is. God wants you to be whole and happy... God's love is boundless, His grace free for the taking... for Him, you count just as much as we all do.
Sweetie, abuse is a sickness, it can be chronic, your life will be marked forever by it, BUT you can overcome it, put an end to it, it takes a lot of support to refuse to be a part of it, alot of willpower, alot of inner-strength, alot of the stuff which you probably don"t have much of right now given the destructive effects that the abuse has had on you. You need counselling, your spouse needs counselling... you need a specific type of counselling, try to find someone who specializes in abuse. Many women's and men's shelters, community organizations and abuse hotlines can direct you to a good and experienced professional who can help you.
I don't believe in marriage at all costs, unlike many of the folks here, I don't believe that God wants us to suffer abuses, I don't believe he wants our spirits to die within us or that we should live in darkness, I don't believe that He who gave us and is Himself love would want us to feel unworthy of love or deprived of it, I don't believe that He who gave us life would want us to be at risk for losing it in the hands of others.

Please take good care of yourself, leave if you have to, if you find yourself in danger at the hands of the one you love nad who is supposed to treat you as loved... even if it for a short while... take a break from the abuse... find some help.

I will pray for you...

Peace,
Odyssey

Torie,

I know where you are coming from. I am separated and going to file for divorce from my abusive husband of 6 years. He verbally and emotionally abuses me and I have finally had my fill. I deserve and can do much better than him...even if it's living by myself.

About a year into the marriage, he told me 'one night with Michelle was better than a whole year with you'. The next 4th of July he threw dishes with food all over the kitchen and I was on my knees at 4am scrubbing up dried up food and broken glass shards. He has put his foot thru my car window, punched numerous holes in walls, broken countless things--tho, thank God, he has never put a hand on me...but I can foresee that if I stay with him. The worst things he has done, however, is the mean, hateful things he says...calling my kids 'half-breeds'...called me a 'f*cking ***** whore' (while I was recovering from surgery no less)...stayed out all night at friends...I can't even think of what all he has done to destroy my psyche. The above is just the tiny tip of the iceberg.

All my friends (and me, too) say I'm crazy to stay with him and that it's only a matter of time before the violence turns on me. I really don't deserve to be treated like this. I am a delicate flower (emotionally, anyway)...a gift that God put on earth...just like you...and I deserve to be treated with respect and care.

Your relationship is sick and toxic. It's not love, Torie, it's co-dependence. It's not healthy in any way and cannot even be called 'love'.

I know it's scary to end it...and I'm not suggesting that you do...only you can decide that...but the abuse is only going to escalate...your spouse is like a child that keeps pushing to see how much he can get away with. And you are a permissive 'mother'...you love him despite his faults. The 'children' don't see this as love, however,they see it as weakness on your part.

Torie, I'm 45, grossly overweight and the best years of my life are probably behind me. My chances to find someone new are so slim but you know what? I'm still not gonna put up with anymore of his sh*t. I don't need it. He has been gone 5 months now (back home to his mommy)and my home is peaceful. I can do whatever I want without the shadow of him hanging over it. Plus, I have more money now than when he was here. He didn't work steady and he cost more than he was worth...even if he did work steady...he cost more emotionally than he was worth.

Torie, please get some counseling.

If you want to talk, I am here. Email me at dedendlyfe@aol.com

Torie, I was reading 'stillreeling's' thread and something else came to mind.

Mature, healthy relationships are give and take...sometimes you give more and sometimes you need to take more. With abusers, it's all 'give' for us. My stbxh actually has the nerve to complain about my housekeeping...when he had been sitting at home on his fat [censored] for months doing nothing...while I have held down my job for nearly 19 years. But I was supposed to work 40 hours a week, do the shopping, and clean while he did nothing...not even draw unemployment. I swear...he was too lazy to even go get unemployment.

I cannot thank you enough for this post...I had been feeling kind of sad and lonely this morning and even thought about calling him and asking him to come visit (ok, I need sex)...now I wanna puke just thinking about him. This was just what I needed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Torie,

I know exactly what you are thinking. I thought that myself the entire time I was married to my first husband. He physically, emotionally, and verbally abused me for over 10 years. I wanted to leave but I couldn't. I was afraid to leave. Afraid of what he would do, afraid of what everyone would say when they found out, afraid of raising my kids on my own. And I hoped that one day he would change and become the husband and father that I needed him to be. He couldn't.

He was the one who ended up leaving. He had an affair and moved in with her. I was devastated then, but now I am so glad he left!! After he left, I told my closest family and friends about the hell I'd lived thru. It felt so good to finally say something. Everyoen asked me why I put up with it. I didn't have an answer. I told them they would never understand unless they were in that position.

You don't deserve to be abused. No one does. Really think about the life you're living and decide if it's worth it!

Good luck!!
Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />