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#774858 07/24/04 12:46 PM
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Alot of people here are involved with this guy...or gal...Very toxic.

I personally divorced him. And they can't be alone. Ever. Jump from one to another.

Please read this as it might be of some help to those who think they have to CHANGE before their WS WILL CHANGE.

If a WS tells you that everything hinges on the BS and how much they are willing to change, then something's desperately wrong.

Read on ok?
___________________________________
Cakeman
Dr. Roger A. Rhoades


There is no telling how many men at any given time are cheating on their wives. To get an accurate reading would be almost impossible. You would have to ask men about something that they normally lie about and then expect them to tell the truth.

Probably the best way to get an accurate reading is to ask men how many of them feel they have been driven to an affair by their wives. I am sure men would be more than glad to own up to being a victim of circumstance and not having been the bad guy in the situation.

As long as men keep looking to blame someone or something for their infidelity, women will be lost on how to change their cheating ways.

It is hard to say how many men get into a marriage for all the wrong reasons.

They want to have someone to have their babies.
They want to fit in with other people in their social circle.
They want to have someone to be at home with them, now that they no longer live with their parents.
They want someone to take the place of their mothers and baby them.
No matter what the reason, some men do not get in a marriage to be faithful. These men see their wives as the next step on the ladder of adulthood. They have become unable or unwilling to keep up the pace of single life, but do not want to give up the thrill of the chase.

These men are what I call Cakemen.


Cakemen are men who want to have their cake and eat it too. These men do not leave their wives. These men stay with their wives and date someone else at the same time.
They like the fact that they can have someone stable at home, taking care of business, while they continue to play single guy with other women.

They have no real desire to leave their wives and move on to someone else, unless their activities are discovered.

If they are discovered, many of these Cakemen dump the girlfriend and stay with the wife, only to go back to cheating once the dust has settled.

In a man's way of thinking, staying with his wife makes all the sense in the world.

If he leaves his wife, then they will have to split up their possessions as well as their bills. In many times it takes a man several years to recover from this.

On the other hand, if he keeps the wife, he gets to keep his lifestyle going with only a minor glitch. The minor glitch is that he will have to act like he is real sorry, dump the old girlfriend, wait awhile, and then go back out and find a new girlfriend.

One of the major reasons men become Cakemen is because they do not want to grow up. It takes a mature adult to handle the day to day responsibilities of a monogamous relationship.

When a man has to see a women everyday and negotiate bills, affection, cooking, cleaning, shopping, and personal undesirable behavior, he longs for a simpler way of living. He wants to be a grown up, but somewhere in his soul he wants all the benefits and none of the responsibility.

Having a woman on the side allows him to play two different roles at the same time. In his mind the pressures of married life can be released by having a sexual relationship with someone else.

In his marriage he can play responsible man and co-decision maker, while in his affair, he can call all the shots and be the lord of the relationship.

The second major reason a man becomes a Cakeman is to keep the feeling of being a player.

When a man gets married, many times he sees himself as being caught or conquered. It is now time for him to go out to pasture and be used as a stud service.

In his eyes, he is slowly, but surely becoming his dad. His days of being a major competitor are over. It is easy to see how this type of thinking would make a man feel old before his time.

One of the easiest and most available ways to feel young and in the game is to get into an affair. Now he is desirable. Now he is a man's man.

He is now feeling young and, even though his conscience might be bothering him, the thrill of being a player certainly outweighs those negative thoughts.

The final reason that men cheat on their wives, but don't leave them, is that it is a safety net.

Very few men get excited about a full blown gamble. They want to believe that they at least have a 50/50 chance of winning. If there is any way to stack the cards in their favor, they are going to do it.

This is the thinking behind having a wife and a girlfriend. If for some reason a man's wife is unwilling to be affectionate when and how he wants, then he has his girlfriend to take up the slack.

If a man wants to be the center of attention and the mister know-it-all, but his wife deflates his ego, then he can go to his girlfriend for a good dose of hero worshipping.

It is not just the wife who gets the short end of the stick, the girlfriend also suffers. At some time, most girlfriends who have heard a man say he hates his wife will entertain the subject of divorce or even marriage.

When a Cakeman is confronted with this issue, he is able to make excuses and fall back into a dilemma of commitment or what is the "right" thing to do. This position successfully keeps the girlfriend at bay for fear that she might lose him.

The sad part of all this behavior is that seldom if ever does everyone come out on top. Usually one or more people suffer deep, long lasting wounds from this type of situation.

Some women are unable or unwilling to trust another man after being with a Cakeman.

These men also suffer from this type of behavior. They never really grow up and take their place in a responsible society. They fill their lives with lies and deceit, which in the long run affect their coping skills and their performance on a job.

Women are putting their lives on hold in hopes that their Cakeman will finally leave their wife and make them the center of their lives.

Finally, if children are involved, the destruction is unbelievable. Counseling offices are filled with children who either caught their father with another woman or had to live in a family where lying was the major form of communication.

The best advise is to play your life honestly. If a relationship is over, then bury it. If you are in a marriage and have met someone else, think before you act.

The emotional stability you save might be your own!

#774859 07/24/04 03:49 PM
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I read most of the article - not all of it. I thought it was good.

You did well, Peachy, when you found this. Do you hear me clapping.

(Men hate to leave a marriage because it means they might have to split the bills and it might take them SEVERAL YEARS to recover? Give me a break! I will probably never recover from doofus idgit man leaving. And of course it was my fault that he was so unhappy. [NOT] Where is Ed McMahon when you need him?)

#774860 07/24/04 04:14 PM
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Dear Peachy,

Let the great man speak:

"Life without sex might be safer but it would be unbearably dull. It is the sex instinct which makes women seem beautiful, which they are once in a blue moon, and men seem wise and brave, which they never are at all. Throttle it, denaturalize it, take it away, and human existence would be reduced to the prosiac, laborious, boresome, imbecile level of life in an anthill."

"A man's women folk, whatever their outward show of respect for his merit and authority, always regard him secretly as an [censored], and with something akin to pity. His most gaudy sayings and doings seldom deceive them; they see the actual man within, and know him for a shallow and pathetic fellow. In this fact, perhaps, lies one of the best proofs of feminine intelligence, or, as the common phrase makes it, feminine intuition."
Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956)

Boy I wish I could say things like that! H.L. says it so much better than I ever could!

#774861 07/24/04 07:39 PM
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Just re-read Cakeman b/c of my crappy dating sitch that has revealed its ugly head.

Thanks Cindy. And I understand that sometimes it is the dinero which motivates, or should I say de-motivates a guy to leave or file...They want the comfy place that's simple.

And Bumperii...thanks bud...

Yea, I believe for sure in intuition. Am a for sure believer.

I would have some cake of my own tonight, chocolate cake, but I am instead beginning this evening (son is asleep) a bit of a liquid diet...skyy vanilla and either diet coke or diet ginger ale and crushed ice.

Ah...the life of the cakeperson. Gotta be fun. No responsibilities. No thinking. Just doing what feels good whenever and having no regard.

I think I am going to learn to eat a tiny bit of cake as of now. Just a little. A girl can't have too much cake or as my old beauty pageant coach used to say "an instant on the lips means a lifetime on the hips." Or something like that..But a little of anything, say except cyanide, never killed anybody. So cheers.

In honor of tonight's discovery, I shall watch "Bridget Jones' Diary
and then follow it up with my ultimate man screws girl over movie...... "Legally Blonde".

And at that, the "medically blonde" peachy is signing off and skoal to all ya'll. Will check inbetween the double feature and hope I can write legibly then.

#774862 08/03/04 09:41 AM
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YEP - I married a Cakeman...too bad it took 10 years to figure it out.

#774863 08/03/04 10:09 AM
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Oh yeah, it has taken me 33 years to find out that the man I married all those years ago has been a cakeman right from the start.

I found out about his latest "soulmate" in Jan 04, he moved out 3/04 and yesterday called me to ask if we could get together to "talk about things". What things, I don't know...most likely what the timeline for divorce will be. This was the only affair I ever caught him in, the many others were revealed to me over the course of the last few months. But now this one has turned into some grand love affair that has brought us to the brink of divorce.

I love this man but I need to keep telling myself that I would never be able to trust my heart or my future to him again. It hurts so much!

#774864 08/03/04 10:53 AM
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Hi
I usually post over on GQII, but I am on the brink of filing for divorce, so I thought I might get aquainted with you fine people. I've been lurking for a couple weeks while contemplating ridding myself of my Fogman.

You'd think that there is a mold that these cakemen are struck from! Fogman doesn't want a D but still wants to have his "special friend" (the latest name he rationalizes her with). CLASSIC cake-eater!

He cannot handle the rogors and discipline required of simple ordinary life... his decisions mean well, but are not based on logic.

We met in our teens. His parents are D, which he always has said was the worst thing in the world to him. I really think I fill a mother role to him. Strong, steady, loyal to a fault...the rock.

Well, the sledgehammer of the A will not break this rock, will not break me...I'm outta here, and plan to enjoy watching his self-destruction. I've Plan A'd my best, but I don't think I want his immature butt back anymore.

Boy, sorry I'm in such a negative mood lately. Not a very good first impression, huh? I promise to vent nicely!!!

#774865 08/03/04 03:57 PM
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I am so sorry for your sitch. We'll help any way we can.

Imho, there are 2 types of WS.

1--pure cakeman. Ultimate liar. Sociopathic tendencies. Wants both worlds and is center of his or her universe. My x is this one. Self pleasure and self serving only. They suck you into their drama and you beg to get out in the end.

2-I call this one the "autopilot" guy or gal. They have serious life issue and suddenly they turn to the person whom they happen to be communicating with on some level. The addiction isn't self serving completely, it is to escape whatever their stress is. To detach. They completely ignore the BS and many times the BS will never know or suspect. They just seem under stress. The WS is just getting by in life. They are confused, walking around feeling pain and hurt and displacing it with a short term feel good fix. They are like being a pilot on a plane who enters the cockpit and switches on autopilot because they aren't wanting to take control of the flight. They may have hundereds of passengers who are depending on them, but they just want to sit there and do nothing while the plane spirals and nosedives. They're hurting and in pain vs. the cake eaters who are wanting to feel good all day every day 24/7.

Not all WS are pure cakepersons. But these are just the thoughts/rants of a person with only a psych minor. Major in something totally different.

#774866 08/03/04 06:01 PM
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I was tremendously benefitted by reading this Cakeman post. In my case, my exWW left me. Nevertheless, thanks Peachy! This has real value.

I think the only hope for Cakemen/women is the same route that must be followed out of all addictions...as in 12 step, etc.

#774867 08/04/04 10:21 AM
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Wow.

#774868 08/04/04 11:16 PM
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Peachy,

I'm married to the "autopilot" guy and it is very difficult for me. I will never know which one of life's issues will send him over the edge again and into the arms of another woman. I always feel that I'm never good enough as his wife or partner.

Kati

[QUOTE]Originally posted by justpeachy:
2-I call this one the "autopilot" guy or gal. They have serious life issue and suddenly they turn to the person whom they happen to be communicating with on some level. The addiction isn't self serving completely, it is to escape whatever their stress is. To detach. They completely ignore the BS and many times the BS will never know or suspect. They just seem under stress. The WS is just getting by in life. They are confused, walking around feeling pain and hurt and displacing it with a short term feel good fix. They are like being a pilot on a plane who enters the cockpit and switches on autopilot because they aren't wanting to take control of the flight. They may have hundereds of passengers who are depending on them, but they just want to sit there and do nothing while the plane spirals and nosedives. They're hurting and in pain vs. the cake eaters who are wanting to feel good all day every day 24/7.

#774869 08/04/04 11:30 PM
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I too am a GQII person, meandering towards divorce....

And this post really impacted me.

There has been a few times through this, where people have passed information along that just stuck, and this may have just stuck with me.

While I don't feel that WW has a desire to "be a player", some of this stuff seems to be right on par.

Some of these fit so much that it was scary....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> They have no real desire to leave their wives and move on to someone else, unless their activities are discovered.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Check.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If they are discovered, many of these Cakemen dump the girlfriend and stay with the wife, only to go back to cheating once the dust has settled. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> On the other hand, if he keeps the wife, he gets to keep his lifestyle going with only a minor glitch. The minor glitch is that he will have to act like he is real sorry, dump the old girlfriend, wait awhile, and then go back out and find a new girlfriend. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See WW's A1. Check.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> One of the major reasons men become Cakemen is because they do not want to grow up. It takes a mature adult to handle the day to day responsibilities of a monogamous relationship. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Check.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When a man has to see a women everyday and negotiate bills, affection, cooking, cleaning, shopping, and personal undesirable behavior, he longs for a simpler way of living. He wants to be a grown up, but somewhere in his soul he wants all the benefits and none of the responsibility. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Check.

Wow.

While its intent is to portray the behavior of a straying H, it definitely opens my eyes to a lot of what I've seen from my WW.

And it definitely chips away at my desire to remain in this M, b/c I really, REALLY don't want to end up in this again.


Ethan

#774870 08/04/04 12:02 PM
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This post helped me HUGE TODAY as I was somehow in a funk. I almost somehow forgot why the hell I am doing a D, and this reallllly hit home.

This really hits right on and FM pulled the same quotes I hilited!!!

My STBX WW is the type 1 cakeeater. And part of the funk was I believe due to some actions last week by her...in addition, she returns next week (she moved out of state) and I will not see her but we have a 4-way conference call with the lawyers. She will be paying alimony and I believe will freak out quickly on this call so I am a little nervous I guess.

Also, she tried to drag me back into her drama after threatening me with a RO last Monday. Four hours later calls me in a deep voice, "hey, it's me, I thought I might have cut you off before and you might want to talk".

I mean, WTF??

Thanks for posting!!!

#774871 08/04/04 01:36 PM
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I think I am going to print this out and frame it....Anytime I wonder if D is really the answer, all I need do is read it and weep.

So many of these "flaws" are "owned" by my WH. My recently finding out really has put a big damper on our working on our M...I bet you can add that they rarely seek therahy - they are happy with who they are - they don't want to change. Everytime I think - Maybe he can change - I better sit down and read this again - he will only cause me more pain in the long run.

I do not want a D - but, I may be forced to proceed. He keeps saying he doesn't want a D - if I'm unhappy I should go file..If he continues his A - by the first of the year I will file. I can't do this anymore..I can't be second, third or fourth best...I deserve more...I want more...My finding out just had him put up walls so I can't get to him - sick that's for sure....

Maybe we should all print this and have our WS read it...Hmm, would that help???

#774872 08/04/04 01:41 PM
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Ironically, this article is posted on the "The Other Woman" site.

By the time I ran across that site, I was gathering resolve to end the relationship--and I had experienced, in one way or another, many of the insights in the article.

#774873 08/04/04 03:59 PM
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Hmmmm

Fogman is a combo of Type 1 and 2. He always has to be different!! LOL

He called me today at work, saying he was thinking of me. I feel absolutely nauseated when he calls. He still doesn't want a D. He wants to cake-eat instead. He's always asking me to do stuff for him usually when he calls. What ever is he gonna do when I'm gone? OW is an idiot, can't see her filling my shoes any time soon!

He still blames me for everything. I guess I'm just a b*tch to him. No one else has ever said I was a b*tch. Oh well, the FOG rolls in once again. He is not sorry, not even a glimpse of remorse. He loves having two women, and free access to his kids. What an [censored]!

I think my own fog must have lifted.

#774874 08/04/04 05:35 PM
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Yes--most of these men are perfectly happy having their needs met by two women.

I deplore the part of me that became and remained emotionally involved, and for so long, given the circumstances.

#774875 08/04/04 06:31 PM
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I think I was feeling OK until OW moved to Maine 2 days after him. All of a sudden, SHE has always wanted to move there, HE has always wanted to move there and I NEVER wanted to move there. Whatever...Kids and I still live in Vermont. At first I told him "I am your wife, I am coming with you..." I was "harrassing" him. He then proceeded to move into her parent's camp there. Ooops, he also forgot to tell me that was where he was headed, had it planned for weeks. Says he has no where else to stay.

I'm done, and will never move to Maine unless the OW dies or something (fat chance, but I actually have dreams of killing her! I love those dreams...).

This sweet piece cake is moving on...now if I can just get him to quit whining about not wanting a D, I'd be all set. The usual rules will apply, of course...NO CONTACT, cake-boy... CLUNK...that was the sound of me putting my foot down (finally) instead of playing his game.

#774876 08/10/04 09:10 AM
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I like this post...

#774877 08/13/04 03:20 PM
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Good grief! I just found out that I'm a cakeman 1 and 3!


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