I hope you don't feel like I'm targeting you. I don't spend much time here so I tend to follow just a few threads with familiar names.

We may have gone through similar crap, but we are very different women. I have written much to you, and deleted most before posting. I am not wanting to be disrespectful, and whack you with the MB 2x4 all the time. I've been belted with it many times myself, deservingly and otherwise.

I don't "get" dating either. Maybe some enjoy it. I don't. I am a one-man woman. Luckily I didn't have to look far. I don't need to do a background check. I don't need to search his pockets. I don't have to search the history on his computer.

He's not perfect. *gasp* But he will never cheat on me, and he treats me like a princess. Do I really need more than that? I'm not kissing all the cute toads in town to find out!

The thing is, I'm not so sure you even enjoy dating. I don't think it is supposed to be that stressful.

Well it's not that I don't enjoy it, I am deep down fearful what happened could ever happen again...

I mean, mine wasn't the typical adultery and divorce scenario. He got incredibly bad.

And learning to trust is key. My best friends are helping me right now learn that I don't have to worry as much b/c I am soooo much more attuned to things now and have grown so much as a result of what happened.

I guess I am just going to be rather picky and make darn sure that what has happened will not ever happen again.

Incidentally, he and I decided jointly that it would probably be best to wait a while before he goes on any overnight thing with us...I in the end believe that a committment is necessary for that. Flat out told him.

So XP I thank you for being "tough but loving" over the years and trust me, my best friends aren't always loving either. But they know that I am moving ahead as best as I can. Sometimes i just wish I could have my memory erased of what happened and only remember the parts involving my son. I'd never change that part for sure.

Please keep my family in your prayers ok? Found out that the closest relative to me is dealing with finding out her husband six years ago had a brief affair with his first assist in surgery. He had been going to a mens' bible study and was broken enough and humbled enough to finally tell her of the brief 3 week affair that happened six years ago.

Sometimes I've wondered why this was allowed to happen to me or to good people and to friends I've met here. It has been a prayer of mine that I be able to help somebody heal and a marriage heal due to infidelity. That's been b/w me and God and I sure thought I'd help somebody maybe here on the forum. But guess God had somebody else in mind...the closest person in the world to me in fact.

Using what I've learned here, I've steered her here and she and her H are going to heal from this revelation. They are totally committed to getting beyond this and he has not seen nor heard from this woman, this OW for 6 years now. It had been a huge burden on his back and in his heart.

Even if the D day is years past, it still is like stabbing somebody in the back.

Thanks to all here and your kindness and insight and honest opinions, I am able to somehow be a comfort and hopefully a help in healing that little family...

And in case anybody wants to know...

This is huge!

Yes! Being a WS is insanity. Temporary insanity. He told her that he was 1)stressed beyond belief with his work schedule, almost working four days straight at a time. 2)when he came home she was helping with their two year old child and she worked full time as well. 3)He remembered feeling confused and out of control. He could not explain why he did what he did but said that he was NOT THINKING CLEARLY.

Wow.

Words from a man I grew up with who I've been friends with since I was a kid. It's confirmed imho. That when you're involved in an affair, it is escapism pure and simple. And it is a matter of taking care of the most basic needs of the WS..Not having somebody to talk to, or being overworked or exhausted..All of that contributes but is not an excuse. And definitely overwork and lack of sleep can make one well...have diminished capacity. They feel out of touch and out of control and confused.

He kept it a secret for six years only telling our best friend's husband who advised him to stop it immediately or else he'd lose his family. What a good friend. So much for calling the cakeman a cakeman. Set him straight.

It is a real shame alot of the WS here do not have relatives or a best friend brave enough to confront them and tell them not what they want to hear but to do the right thing. I know in my former M, the outlaws never did encourage X. Just enabled his negative behaviors.

Keep praying for their marriage renewal. They are now going to a counselor this week and are going to the Greek Isles in Jan. to renew their vows and make things new. And they're reading HNHN.

I was floored when I first found out. When she called me. I cried with her for an hour before the reality set in and I was able to clearly answer her questions and help her see through the betrayal...even if it was six years ago.

We can help others heal. But it takes a friend who's willing to be brave and hold the WS accountable, and a real turning point moment for the WS...the edge of the cliff moment for them to stop and turn around and end the addiction.

In the end, he told her that it was like an addiction. Made him not think clearly, act irrationally, he was not eating or sleeping properly, and it only fed his ego...OP put him on a pedastal, listened to everything he said, and was somebody that was around him over 10 hours a day...much more than his wife...He became short tempered, said his fuse was very short if anybody crossed him, and only wanted something to make him not feel pain or the feeling of being miserable....

That's key. His W didn't make him miserable. His kids didn't make him feel miserable. He was working way too hard and disconnected from them and felt totally separated from his family. He told her today btw that "if she told him to, he would quit his job and sell their home today even if it meant making 1/10th of what he does not to show her how much he is committed to their family."

It is in all how the WS de-fogs himself and if somebody close to them is willing to walk into the fog with them and show them the way out.

Boy Peachy, I've only been away four days and look what you've been up to in my absence.

I say the two month things sounds good. It definately sounds like RR has some things he needs to clear up, and this will give both of you some time to evaluate what you want from life and each other. However, if at the end of two months you two are still waivering I'd have to say cut your losses and move on. By then you'll have given it six months and that is plenty to establish if you want to be committed to each other.

As for Florida, don't do it. Sure, he may get his own room and do some of his own stuff, but he will also be spending a great deal of time with you and your son. Don't confuse your son by having him there. Kids are very perseptive and he will start connecting the two of you. This is fine if you are a committed couple, but since you aren't, hold off. Your son has endured enough in his short life. Don't let him start spending time with someone you aren't sure will remain in your life. Spare him the heartache. There will be plenty of time for them to get to know each other once you are in an exclusive relationship.

As for these other dates, oh to have so many men to choose from. You must be a real peach Peachy! I say enjoy yourself. They say, date around just don't sleep around. Since you have confirmed you are in the convent you have nothing to worry about. So with that said, date, date, date, and enjoy yourself!

It sounds like Atlanta is quite the city. I'll have to make it down there sometime!

Take care and God bless!
K

Thanks guys.

RR is NOT going to FL with us. Nope. We already decided that and it was me in the end who made the judgement call. He said he agreed with my decision though.

He came by last night after he got outta er. We're doing ok. He did the acting wierd thing again with the whole not looking at me thing going on.

So...the 2 month plan is in force. He said, again with minimal eye contact, that they're having a meeting with his professsional peers to discuss their fall rotational schedule and is going to get his schedule set and set aside some time to hopefully do the Key West thing with me...and yea, the 2 room thing.

But...if it's past my 2 month limit he'll have to go on his own. I am sticking to guns on that. He has no idea on the day circled on my calendar and what it means.

Tonight I am going to check the dating site and see if he's been online recently. Judging from the actions of last night, I'd say probably so.

Today stunk. Got horrid migraine headache today and came home and took some med they gave me at work and also 2 tylenol and fell asleep until about 30 min. ago. Son comes home tomorrow. Am going to jog tonight and wash and pack for trip.

I mean, a migraine almost was expected after the revelation of my family member's problem, and also about something I didn't post about yesterday..Jethro being...well, Jethro.

Am damn sick of him giving me conditions and stipulations as though he still has the legal privilege to do that.

It's manipulation and a control ploy and him being nosey and wanting to find out about my personal life.

He calls yesterday and we talk about son beginning kindergarten on monday. Being I am a responsible mom, I remind him that we are going outta town but we will be back early in evening (about five or six) pm and he'll be ready for his first day of school on monday. He gets angry and says that I am a bad mother for taking my son outta town the weekend before his school starts. Bad mom? Tons of my neighbors are at the beach this week..last week before school.

He asks me to change my vacation plans or switch weekends with me...and asks "are there any other adults going with you...if so, you can just switch weekends with me and take him another weekend."

He then suggests me to cancel our reservations and to take him to a waterpark nearby or something better to Jethro's liking. The beach is 5 hours away.

He is prying and is a control nut freak. Nobody told him to cancel his FL reservations 2 weeks ago. I did not suggest anything for his vacations. I don't. My life is my life and his life is his now. He has no right to question me as a mother as I've never given him reason.

And then the $^#$@$# tells me that basically by virtue of being a working mom (because I have to work b/c he doesn't pay us much...if he did, I'd gladly stay at home if he offers better support btw.)that I am not putting my son's needs first..What???He says that if our son is sleepy at school and that the teachers inform him of this then...he'd..well he never got the inferred threat out.

He hangs up on me after I tell him that I will not tolerate any inferred threat from him.

This is from same man who took his son on 2 vacations with Mistresses and lied to me, the mom about who was going. This is same man who allowed OW to move in with him and lied about it. This is the same abusive man who pushed me down a flight of stairs with his son watching and this is a guy pretending he's man of the year?

Arrrrgh.

He is angry b/c he can't control me. He is trying also to find out if I am seeing anybody (are there any other adults going on trip?) He wants me to basically go to work, take care of my son when he doesn't feel like it, and live like a nun pining away for him for the rest of my life.

Will let ya know about the personal ad thing...btw, mine is off and has been off for about a week now.

Talked to cute resident yesterday as well. He's being really nice. Might give him a chance. heck, there's no ring on this finger.

Cold busted.

He is working in ER and is actively on line at the site.

The looking you straight in the eye part is so key.

Not sure how to proceed with this or if I should one more day...Not sure if the two months thing should continue.

Advice?

I am not going to initiate any contact for now and will do so for how long I am not sure.

One more thing to really help my migraine today.

Another unusual thing...have not talked to him as of today.

I am thinking this is what has happened. He's talked to some girl yesterday and today. Thus the reason why he can't look at me much when communicating with me. When I am outta town, he will most likely probably go out with her..thus, the way he's acting.

Oh well. Let him do that. I will also do what I am doing and seeing other people as well.

And to think I left him a vmail today asking him about my migraine/med...

AFter going thru so much with my xh, I can tell almost immediatley if somebody isn't being straight up or is being evasive.

Warning Peachy: This is a rant you might not want to read!

OK, JustPeachy I can hold silent no longer. I read your daily vents/threads and just go "HUH ????????????????????" I think you should really cut out these games you are playing. I just don't get it. You seem like a very intelligent, capable, and articulate woman. Why in the hell are you playing these games with this guy who VERY CLEARLY is not interested in a serious relationship with you. Why? You post on here daily whining about this guy and you say that you are upset about his dating site ad, Why don't you just stop messing around with this and let him know your true feelings and intentions? If you want something more than "casual", why don't you ante up and go for it. You have been estranged from your husband for 3 years, that is long enough. You can't continue to play it safe, "hoping you won't get hurt". If you want big rewards, you have to take big chances. Why all of the games with this guy? ???Silent treatment??, 2 month dealines???, brush offs at work???, internet surveillance???

You may not want to hear this, but I still think you have a big case of "woe is me". Your XH clearly has a lot of control over you. He is still easily able to tweak your emtions and "control" you. You may try and tell yourself that he isn't, but just from reading you daily rants, it is clear to me that he can still control you. He may not be doing it face to face but he still has the power to push your buttons. I don't know you well and you may want to tell me to "**** off", but I had to pipe in on this one. I obviously don't know your whole story and you got dealt a bad hand with your XH, but I think your daily rants have a lot of self pity in them. I could be wrong about this (and it won't be the first time or last time), but maybe you need to hear someone's different opinion on this rather than the majority opinions on here who agree with you. I apologize in advance if this post offends you , I don't mean it that way, but I am just giving you my slant on things. Take that for what it is worth (maybe nothing).

Wow Lemonhead - I just don't think that Peachy you should play the games with this guy - I mean I agree the deadline thing - it all seems like alot of work -- I mean if you saw him online - I would just tell him you saw him on line and don't try to analyze the way he treats you and stuff - and as for your exhusband - Well don't talk to him - there is no reason to - email him and/or fax - you do not have to communicate - and you sure in hell do not have to answer to him - Stop letting him get this control over you ..... And I think that maybe you should stop thinking about all of the bad things that he has done to you in the past and just be thankful that he isn't going to have any opportunity to do them to your in the future...Frankly I think you should be lucky that this man is out of your life and I think you should be thanking all of those woman - instead of cutting them down for their values...

Reading this makes me want to swear off women altogether. Is this really a window into the typical female mind?

If it is I now understand why the gay population is increasing.


>looking for a rock to crawl under<

Peachy,

The man is obviously lying to you...for sure by omission, and probably directly too.

You have a few other guys interested in you. Drop THIS one, and move on.

He is stringing you along in the hope that if whatever he is pursuing online doesn't work out, that you will be waiting in the sidelines. Well, sorry, I have BTDT, and it is no fun.

Cut your losses and move on. You do not owe him an explanation, since you are not seriously dating, so just keep to no contact, and the next time he calls just tell him you don't want date anymore.

I promise you it will feel very liberating. He is a cakeman, are you going to be the cake?

Love and light,

Jacky

Am not going to FL but got money back. Home issues. Am going instead to hotel on large lake with a beach for son. Cheaper too. Rearranged schedule so that labor day will be the FL trip.

Lemon, you don't know me. Not even close. And maw, I know you also have issues with your x too. Luckily, yours just stays away. Mine doesn't. I vent b/c it is a way to express something. I ask about specific issues. My xh is just a continual headache but a contained headache that I only have to deal with every so often. And Harry, that was really harsh...but I guess we'll miss you in the hetero world...I did take much offense to your words btw.

Nina, thanks. I did take care of matters myself yesterday and it is something I can write you about...and it turned out a bit different than I had expected it to.

I think no more vents are in order. Unless you really do know somebody, they only offend the writer. Advice has been appreciated. When it was on the subject at hand. I haven't dated in 10 years and it is foreign to me somewhat. Am not going to say any more , just that I took care of matters on my end and things are better than expected.

Peachy - yup I have huge issues with my exhusband who wouldn't he sleeps with the lady next door - he put me through complete hell for the last three years - I mean gee of course anyone would have issues - and I also believe that you have issues with your exhusband - But - my exhusband stays away because well he is an *ss and thinks that talking to my kids once a week or once a month or seeing them three times this whole entire year - is him being wonderful - The one thing that you can say about your ex is that as twisted as he may be and as twisted as his morals may be - he still in fact takes and active interest in your son and for that you should be thankful..Because your son will appreciate it someday.. I was not trying to offend you - but I just think from reading all of your posts - that you are a beautiful intelligent woman and I don't know why you would even waste your time - putting so much thought into why your ex does what he does - and why you would even bother with someone that well you like but you already don't trust and you are only dating..... Don't get me wrong I totally can relate to everything that you have gone through with your ex and believe me I know it sucks first hand - but it has been a long time and yet he still screws with your mind - and you let him... I absolutely hate my ex and I do not speak to him at all - I email him when I have a money issue - that of course he doesn't feel the need to and will not pay for but I try - and then I have been just letting it go - and believe me it is better.... I haven't dated in 21 years - and you know what I still havent' - I will be 40 and the thought of dating freaks me out - but I will tell you that - all of this crap happened for me starting in October of 2001 after 15 years of marriage.. And I was and am completely devasted... because I thought that something like this would ever happen to me... Am I happy yet no - but I have realized that though this happened to me - the only way to go through it and live a normal life is to let him go... Absolutely totally and to do that I have had to give up all contact - because like you I was analyzing his every move - his every action - what he was doing and why he was doing it.... And frankly I would never know the answers to those questions.. His wife now - may have had a huge part in the break up of your marriage but why you even give her a second thought is beyond me.. I live next door to the other woman - I refer to her as the *hore next door by the way very catchy huh?? And everyday I have to look at her - and you know what I look the other way or look right through her because well you know what I wouldn't give her the satisfaction of thinking that she won and or got the grand prize - because from where I am sitting my ex is no prize and he is actually no one that I would ever even consider dating now... My main issue with a person will be trust - I dont' trust anyone - and that is why I don't understand why you are trying to figure out this guy you are dating the same way you are trying to figure out your ex - You need to be upfront and honest with him... Sorry again if I have offended you - I didn't mean too.. And frankly unless you walk a mile in someone's shoes you don't really understand what they have been through.. But pretty much everyone here has had their lives turned upside and inside out - so I pretty much thing that everyone understands - Though I don't know about you I always wished I was one of those people who would just wake up one day - and say ok yup he cheated it is over..unfortunately for some of us it takes a lot longer....-

I don't really know you either, but I have to agree with lemonman....at least the part about you continuing to play this game. This is high drama...I know because I've been there, done that.

I think you know in your gut that this guy is NOT for you. So why are you hanging on? I think you're going to look back on all this later and think..."what a dork I was!" Learn the lesson now...that is you really quiet all the drama and really listen, you can trust your gut. You're not going to be able to open up, trust or love again until you learn that, imho.

Also want to say the committmentphobe article was awesome!!! Wow. Thanks for sharing that.

Thank you Ms O for your opinions...I might add I am a flowery writer and was editor of both hs and college...maybe I am just a little too descriptive.

And to maw, thank you. I know you struggle as well. I just have to deal with this guy and when I totally ignore him he will not allow that to happen at all. He will find a way to get "in my face" over any issue big or little. I just wish I had a dollar for every time he threatens me with legal recourse for any little thing...like taking my son on vacation.

And Jacky, you'll be proud as I had "the talk" with R yesterday and laid it on the line. I will let you know about that via email. Not for here.

Am closing this thread.

Peachy-

I haven't written lately as I have been out of town, but it sounds like you have come to some conclusions about RR. Whatever they are I hope they are going well for you. I hope your trip with your son goes well. I hope to talk to you soon.

Take care and God bless!
K

Peachy,

I for one have enjoyed your vents re: dating after divorce as I was learning ALOT from your experience. In fact, I want you to know I always read your posts because and found them to be insightful, helpful and enjoyable (if you can say that about this horrible situation we have/are all weathering). Just to let you know I think you rock for everything you have been through and how strong you have come out of it all.

Regards,

Brit's Brat/BS-43
XH-45
DS-almost 3
Status: D-Day 5/02, Divorce final 5/04 after 2 years of trying to recover marriage.

PS...I'd ditch RR - he sounds like a "player" to me...and believe me, I know them when I see them because I have met so many!

BB

Maybe (maybe!) he is not a player. He could have misunderstood all this dating.
180 degree taken not as JP's wish to 'accelerate' his commitment, but as JP being not interested 'enough', or being even unstable!? (changing her 'moods' or plans every now and than), not mature for a serious relationship?! (especially if he knows about 'going out with other guys'(??)...

From not-only-my experience, men are very bad in 'reading our thoughts'... I guess we do the same... but men are worse, because women's mind is more complicated that that one of men (more colors in their thoughts, or - nothing is black and white, more thinking, more analyzing, more giving significance to little things men wouldn't even blink about...)
In general, of course...

Communications! So much talked about, and as much rarely applied in our lives.

JP reminds me of myself... when I was VERY young, e.i. teenager...

There is a huge difference between wish to have someone for a while, or for a much longer... that huge the way or 'tactics' you apply is...

If a long-term relationship wanted - less playing games and more open conversations...
Nothing wrong in telling - hi, I fell closer and closer to you and I want commitment, what do you think about that?
Yes, you can 'scare' someone, to push him away... but THAT one would go away sooner or later, so, better sooner (less waste of time)...

JP, I would first have a good talk to myself - do I REALLY want HIM (not relationship with him, but him!), do I REALLY need HIM, can he make ME happy in the long run, could I LOVE him for a long (forever?) time, do I think I would solve my own inner problems, frustrations, loneliness, unhappines, scars from previous relationship by not being alone, or I solved all of these and am going into a new one with pure soul and eager heart because IT IS HIM I want to be with, with only ONE reason - want to share LIFE with HIM... That I am happy already with myself and I don't need him to make me happy, but I need him (and me) to make us BOTH happIER in our lives...

Then, I would make a nice romantic occassion to tell him - where I am and what I am looking for.

He accepts and commits - fine.
He does not - well, it is NOT HIM then...
And we know that LIFE goes ON either way.


Cheer up.
and don't rush - THE ONE is waiting for you regardless if you are looking for or not... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ August 08, 2004, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>