Hi,

I was reading in Dr. Harley book that there is this notion going around today that divorce is not that bad on children. He says that is devasting to them, and that to say anything else is cruel. I believe this is on page 180 of his needs her needs...

Our couselor says current research does not say this at all. I was wondering if this is Dr. Harley's opinion or if this is based on some research from somewhere.

Thanks.

thats devastating...

It really depends on a lot of different factors. I was divorced when my children were 2 & 5. Their dad was a father of convenience only. They are now 19 & 16 and are super great kids. Very respectful, good grades and no trouble. It was a lot of hard work on my part but I was always there for them at all school events & sporting events. I also had a very supportive family that helped me out when I needed a break. It isn't easy but depending on your situation they can be alright.

attheedge,

I do not know why Dr. Harley wrote what he wrote--whether he had specific statistics in mind or what kind of qualifiers he had for his statement. However, I suspect that the folks who say that divorce is NOT devastating on kids are looking at it from a different point of view than Dr. Harley. For example, they might say that divorce is not devastating if the kids eventually survive and adjust emotionally...or that divorce is not devastating because the kids are exposed to less fighting...or that divorce is not devastating because the kids do not end up in a mental institute, etc. (heehee)

I can not speak for Dr. Harley, but my guess would be that he considers divorce as devastating because the children have to somehow emotionally survive the loss of their family. To children, their biggest point of emotional safety is "mommy and daddy"--and when they do not have that safety net of an intact family, a lot of other stuff also feel unstable. Children do eventually survive and adapt emotionally, but so do people who have had other devastating losses like a death or a trauma or a tragedy. Just because they survive and adjust does not mean that it does not haunt them for the rest of their days or create unhealthy issues around trust, self-love, betrayal, sex, etc. Yes--they may survive but eternally feel that they are unloveable (for example).

In addition, there are statistics that support that children of divorce are more likely to do poorly in school, run away, have a higher pregnancy rate, have more dealings with the courts, have mental health issues, more run-ins with the law, more often involved in domestic violence, etc. Thus, the long-term effect would certainly seem as if it is devastating...if you define devastating as the emotional fallout of not being able to trust others, low or no self-esteem, entitlement to abusing their partner, a messed up concept of sex, and personality disorders!


CJ

Yes, divorce is difficult on all children but so is moving, a sickness in the family, the loss of grandparents, etc.

In addition, some children are more devestated than others. My ex was a father of convenience and he saw the children as existing to meet his needs. Now that we are divorced and he has visitation, he actually spends time with them and takes them places. I will not say that it is better that we are divorced but I will say that they gained a father out of the deal and it wasn't a total loss.

Also, now that divorce is common, most children don't have the "nobody understands how I feel" syndrome. Their buddies already have the same problem which makes it less devestating.

It is awful and anyone who says otherwise is a fool but you can overcome some of the more obvious problems by being their for your children and teaching them that life goes on and roses are still red, the sky is still blue and mommy is still going to your piano recital.

Make no mistake; divorce is devastating to children of all ages! Mom & Dad will always be the primary role models for their children and will always focus on our actions moreso than our words. If you question this; go talk to an adult friend of yours from a divorced family. Tell them that this conversation is important to you and that you will respect what they say. Then look them in the eye and ask if their parents divorce affected them. (Don't say another word. Wait until they speak or react.) Within moments; the expression on their face will tell you all you need to know. Divorce of M & D are the worst signs of abandonment that our children will experience in their life.

The typical "psychological" viewpoint is contradictory. "Kids learn to adapt", "Kids are resilient"... and are classic examples of missing the obvious. Yes kids adapt; but in reality they learn how to cover/mask the pain. Not deal with it! They are not equipped to deal with this kind of rejection yet, so they simply don't think about it.

It took both of us to bring our kids into the world; it is our further responsibility to show them how to stay together; even in tough times. Once we teach them that "quitting" is OK when things get tough - we'd better not complain when they quit school, marriage and life's other responsibilities!

I realize that divorce is certain in some situations and this is unfortunate. But it's important not to justify divorce by thinking the kids will not be greatly affected.

FR

yes, the kids with be affected, of course, but like was said earlier, there are lots of things in life that "affect" us. I just hate it when some people act like the kids are "doomed" because the parents divorce. Not true. my 13yr old honestly shows no negative signs. Been seperated from his dad almost 2 yrs. He is with him now on 6 wk visit. I think it bothers me alot more than it bothers him. I don't know if he just hides it from me and cries himself to sleep or not. If there are any of you out there who is a product of divorced parents, I would just like to know what bothered you the most when your parents divorced and what can a parent do to make it easier on our kids?

My parents divorced when my brother and I were small. My father didn't talk to us about it; he pretended everything was normal. Very wierd. My mother told us that she and my father just couldn't live together anymore, because they were very unhappy with each other. But she told us in no uncertain terms that she and our father would always love us very much, and we didn't need to worry or be afraid about anything.
My father always nursed a fantasy that they would get back together. That must be why he failed at 3 more marriages.
My mother married soon after their divorce. My stepfather is a wonderful man who has loved my brother and I as his own. 30 years later, we are still a happy, strong family, and my parents (mother and stepfather) are very much in love.
I think the best thing a parent can do for their children in a divorce, is let the child be a child. Don't tell the child reasons for the divorce; reassure them that their parents will always love them; and ADAPT. A happy, well-adjusted parent makes for a happy well-adjusted child.

My mother and father divorced when I was still in diapers so I have no recollection of the actual event. I did, however, live with the results. Don’t kid yourselves . . . it was horrible. No matter what you tell the kids they will probably harbor the illusion that it was somehow their fault. “What did I do that caused Dad to move away.” I know that it really wasn’t anything that my brother or I did . . . maybe just the fact that we existed that help cause the stresses that broke my parent’s marriage. I don’t really know. I think you would be making a profound mistake to dismiss the significance that divorce plays on the way a child thinks of the world, their place in it, and their sense of self.

I’m close to 40 and my parent’s divorce still affects me . . . to this day. Every holiday is a hassle, someone is always disappointed because I can’t be at both places at once . . . there is still bitterness even after all this time . . . and on and on it goes. I agree with the poster that said to find an adult that came from a broken home (a very apt description I might add) and ask them how if affected them. You will probably be suprised by the answers you get. I bet you will find precious few that say that it was a great experience and they are so much happier for living through it. I’m sure there are some folks that feel this way, but I would posit that that situation is at the extremes of the bell-curve.

Finally, no matter what, the children are cheated by divorce. There home life is shattered, they are robbed of one parent’s company most of the time (shared parenting and all that), they will be poorer (parents now must maintain two separate houses, etc.), they are exposed to the parent’s new “friends”; these people do not necessarily have the best interests of the children in mind.

I really didn’t mean to paint such a dark picture . . . it just sort of happened. I guess I just wanted to say that dealing with divorce sucked as a kid and it sucks as an adult. I did survive it, so if that was the question . . . “will the children survive?” Sure, they will.

Comfy Numb

Awesome post! Congrat's for your honesty. Your post exactly describes the emotions of my (adult, boomers) friends who come from broken homes. Most are excellent at hiding or dealing with it; but it's always there! One male friend (Engineer) described it as a "toothache that never completely goes away. Sometimes it doesn't bother me, but if I think about it; the dull pain starts again."

Just so the rest of you know; I am not saying that there are no good reasons for divorce; because I know there are. (I've been there, done that) But at 50+% nationwide; I feel that our "reasons" have become too easily justified! Sorry for the preaching! JMHO!

My parents are still married but I'm one of those kids who don't think they should be, despite being on a marriage builders site..lol. Yes, everyone can change. But my mom is SO unhappy and my dad just doesn't seem like the kind of person who will ever ever change because he is RIGHT, NO MATTER WHAT! But you know what? If they called me up right now and told me they were going to get a divorce? I think I'd be a wreck. I remember when I was in jr highschool they took my sister (older than me) and I out to dinner. I don't remember what the start of the conversation was, but could see it heading to the possibility of them getting a divorce. I started getting upset and crying before they ever could utter a word about it and it was never brought up again while I lived at home. Several years later when I was married to my first husband, my mom left my dad. She had just had enough. Well my sister flipped on her and my mom ended up going back. i couldn't believe it. I had thought my mom finally came to her senses (I didn't understand what my dad was really like when I was younger). I was actually angry with my sister for guilting my mother into going back to my father.

So, they're together still and sometimes I'm glad for that and sometimes I'm happy. The fact that they're together, though, has affected me in such a way that I know I sometimes put up with more than I should, and that I tend to be the one always trying harder to fix problems in my marriage(s).

My first husband's parents were divorced and even aside from that he had a very dysfunctional family. It didn't affect our marriage greatly (visiting different people, etc), but it was much easier for him to consider divorce as a viable option to trying to work out problems.

My current husband's parents are divorced. His dad has been married to his 2nd wife for..well..a long time now. His mom has been married to her husband for a long time, but has been married several times. This has created..well, not ISSUES..but we've got my parents to visit in one part of the country, his dad in another part and his mom in yet another part. And yes, someone is always disappointed that they don't get visited or feels like someone else is getting visited more than the other. Celebrations (like when he graduated from college and when we got married)..while not unpleasant, can be a little tense.

And now I'm in the same position again. My husband sees divorce as a perfectly ok alternative to trying to work out our issues. Don't get me wrong, neither of us really WANTS a divorce, but he sees it as a better option than I do. And at this moment I am the one trying harder. This is something I expect right now, but hope it will change.

What I want to know is...how do I get drawn to people with difficult family situations?

I attended a "Children of Divorce" class on how to help the children cope with divorce.
There was a 65 year old man taking the class because his parents were getting divorced.

He said he could not believe it and he was crushed as well as his 5 other siblings.

I've been divorced for 2.5 years now and my kids have "adjusted" pretty well. Mom left when they were 8 & 13 and has only seen them 4 times in the last 5.5 years.
Me & ex haven't had any communication to speak of (in the whole 5.5 years) so there were no "issues" between us concerning the kids (such as visitation, child support, etc) which would negatively affect them.

Devastated? Well, I can't say they have had many "problems" to speak of.
My oldest did really poorly in school for the two years after she left but she did straighten up.
The youngest has been "okay" considering the divorce.

It's pretty difficult for them to grow up with mom leaving/not having much contact and not being a role model for them.

A good book on the long term affects of divorce is The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce : ...lerstein, Julia Lewis, Sandra Blakeslee

I was 21 when my parents divorced. My world was turned upside down. To this day, my life is divided into two sections: pre-divorce and post-divorce.

That said, I often wish my mother had divorced my father much earlier.

My parents rarely fought. The problem was more the insaneness in the household. Just prior to the divorce my father was diagnosed with a personality disorder. It was recommended he have ongoing, intensive counseling, as in twice a week, for the rest of his life in order to get a tiny bit better.

I’m currently seeking a divorce, my 35 year-old sister and my 30 year old brother haven’t married. I think our chances of marital success would have been enhanced had we witnessed a healthy marriage. Plus, it would have been better if we hadn’t had so much contact with a sociopath!

So, while divorce is devastating, it’s not always bad. It’s kind of like surviving cancer. You have to have the cancer cut out, you have to be sick, and you never look at life the same again, but you survive. And maybe you’re life is even better.

Well said, Green Gables.

I agree with the cancer analogy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, divorce is difficult on all children but so is moving, a sickness in the family, the loss of grandparents, etc.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Moving and losing one's grandparents aren't even in the same ballpark as divorce in terms of being "difficult." Even events that are clearly tragic - having both parents die in an automobile accident for instance, do not involve betrayal, because they are not CHOSEN by a parent. It is not merely growing up without the parent that is devastating, bad as that is - the fact that one or both parents chose to screw up the child's life is what makes it truly devasting.

After my H left, before the affair was uncovered, one of my children said that he obviously hated me more than he loved them. How can you say that that is not devastating to believe that?

It is not true that children no longer feel alone. One of my children's friends in high school said the exact words that a poster claimed children of divorce no longer say, that no one understands because everyone else's parents' are married. Except for this high schooler and my child, ALL of the parents of this circle of friends are married.

Research has shown that much of the devastation doesn't show up until years later, when adolescent and adult children of divorce have a much more difficult time forming and maintaining relationships.

My parents separated and then divorced when I was six. I cried when they told me, but I don’t remember really grieving over it a lot. I don’t remember ever thinking that I hated that they were divorcing. In fact, I remember once seeing my parents kiss deeply while they were separated, and I was not thrilled to think that mommy and daddy were getting back together – just uncomfortable. Instead, I hated some things that happened after the separation that they should have been mature enough to avoid:
-being grilled by my father and grandparents about my mother’s new boyfriend
-hearing my father say vile, ugly things about my mother’s boyfriend – it was clear he was testing my loyalty and it made me horribly uncomfortable
-my father’s general pettiness (usually over child support – only in the first couple of years)
-the fistfights between my father and my mother’s boyfriend/husband – sometimes one started it, sometimes the other one did
After the ugliness of the divorce calmed down, I had to deal with being a step-child, which I also hated.
But I turned out good. I was very successful in school. I now lead a happy, healthy life. I recently married and am doing well. I’m on great terms with both parents. They don’t lay any guilt trips about where we go for the holidays – that’s my MIL’s job!
I think different kids take divorce differently. Some take it terribly personally, others don’t. For me, the angst came not from the divorce itself but from my father’s terrible behavior and the injection of a new person into the family dynamic. But having my parents live under separate roofs and no longer be married – not a big deal.

To Nellie’s point, who’s to say whether the reason adults from divorced homes have trouble in relationships because of the divorce or because they patterned a bad marriage?

Who’s to say that it’s better to stay miserable, bitter, and full of hatred for the sake of the children?

I’ll grant you that both parents should do everything possible to develop a happy, healthy relationship. But, when that is impossible, then what?

And divorce is a much better alternative to murder. I’m not a violent person, but if I had stayed in that house with my husband another year, one of us would have been dead through murder or suicide.

Green said:
<strong> And divorce is a much better alternative to murder. I’m not a violent person, but if I had stayed in that house with my husband another year, one of us would have been dead through murder or suicide.</strong>

Divorce is a lot better option than murder or suicide. I think what some of us were trying to get across is that it is still one of the most traumatic things that can happen in kids lives and it will change children in ways that are not easily predicted.

I’m glad my parents divorced if the only other choice was murder or suicide. Part time parent is better than no parent at all.

Children of divorce learn to run when things get hard. Children of parents who stay together and work through their problems learn commitment.

Children of divorce learn to run when things get hard
Because they are forced to do it by two parents who think only of themselves and try to believe it will not hurt the kids. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Children of parents who stay together and work through their problems learn commitment.

Exactly right.