Last night I got a call from my ex. Said he was off Thursday and Friday and would like to come and get our daughter for a few days. He has never done that in the last 3 years. He never came and got them on his scheduled visitation. Never. Last year he spend a total of 3 hours with her. He already pretty much screwed up his relationship with his boys because of that.

Anyway - he asks if he could have her before school starts. I told him it was up to our daughter, (she is 12)but I said where and with whom do you live with. He stated above the lake and them said in a muffled voice I finially moved in with OW. I said what. He said it again then asked me if that would be ok. That he would like to take her school shopping etc. I was dumbfounded for a minute because he has lied to us about this OW for 3 years. I mean lied.

In my moment of shock I told him it was up to our daughter whom said yes. I left the room and tears just began to roll. And why did I cry. I have known about her for 3 years. It just seemed to bring it up all over again. I would of him to rather tell me he lived with some other person than here the OW's name.

My daughter knew I was upset and I told her it was just something that hit me. Now I don't know if I did the right thing telling him it was up to daughter. I don't know!

Bladybug - you did the right thing - no matter what he did he is her dad - I too struggle with this - my ex also has and continues to lie about the other woman - even though she lives next door - he actually went there once and told my daughter that his car was there but he wasn't.... Anyways I think that you need to tell your daughter or your exhusband has to tell her that he is living with another woman... My ex has seen my girls three times all year - a little better than the three hours I might add but this week he has decided to be wonderful - took one daughter to the movies last week - is taking them to Six flags next week - and is taking one to buy some school clothes this evening... Does this bug me??? YUP - but the simple truth is I let them go because it isn't about me it is about them - and they deserve much more than he has given them in the past couple of years... And as for finding out that it was her - well it hurts because on some level you always knew it was her but yet his lies had you wanting to believe him... And it is like really real.... So try to just let it go - let your daughter go and enjoy herself .... And you will be ok....

Thanks Maw64 - you are pretty right! Yep! I am upset! I knew all along, and I guess I just wish he would of come clean 3 years ago so I could of let go and stopped wondering when I was going through my worst! It just makes me sick to think that the OW came first over his kids.

I have talked with my D and she thinks I am mad. That I am working through somethings. And I told her that the truth has finialy set me free in a way(if you can understand what I mean). I told her NO I was not mad at her for wanting to go and this is about her and her dad having some time together. Nothing more. I told her if she felt uncomfortable she could come home. She may have the time of her life. Heck I don't know.

I just hope that he will chose now to start visitation with her instead of that once every 3 year quilt trip.

Thanks for your words.

Bladybug - You are right if they had come clean in the beginning - I think everything would have been normal about now and there would not have been so much suffering... In my case - ex is still denying they are anything but friends or that they are dating- whatever I know the truth - and the simple truth is that if they had come clean in the beginning instead of my private life is my private life crap - then yup it would have been a rocky couple of months for everyone involved but the kids - my two and the ow's two - would have probably accepted them together as a couple - I probably wouldn't have liked it - but then again I would have never said anything to my girls - but now my ex has made a mess of the situation that I don't think that they will ever accept her.. Therefore he still feels the need to lie...And that is funny don't you think - I mean I begged, pleaded you name it I did everything to get him to admit the truth to me - just so I didn't feel so insane - so that I could have accepted it a long time ago and moved on quicker - but nope - still feels the need to lie - and then that gets you to thinking -my god I have been with this man for 20 years - married for 15 years - did he lie to me my whole marriage - was he cheating on me with other people - and I was just so naive and trusting that I didn't know??? And that as you well know throws quite a monkey wrench into one's self esteem - or in my case lack thereof... But your daughter will understand that you are not mad at her - just mad at the situation - I always told my girls that I loved their dad that I didn't want any of this to happen but that he chose not to be married to me anymore - and yup that stuff that happened hurt me very much - but that he is their dad and he would always be their dad - and it would make my life a little easier if they did in fact have a relationship with him... But I have got to tell you - My ex blames the lack of their relationship on me - well I cannot change the way I reacted to the actions the betrayal and lies - yes I was extremely emotional and did my kids clue into that -yup but I cannot apologize for that... I want my kids to have a relationship with their dad - but will they ever have a normal dad and daughter relationship I don't think so - there unfortunately is to many secrets, to many lies .. and they maybe be children but they are not stupid.. I look at it this way - I am ticked off at my exhusband when he doesn't call - I am ticked off and my feelings are hurt in some way when he does call - so pretty much in my book he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't - you just have to find a way to accept it...that is what I have been doing - ok well he doesn't call for two weeks then well he calls and wants to take them to the movies - they go because well why shouldn't they.... As long as you are a great parent to her - then she will grow up having a healthy relationship with you - there is nothing that you can do about the father daugther relationship - that is up to them... And by the way I hope your daughter gets more school clothes than mine did last night - she got two pairs of jeans, a t-shirt and a skirt - I am not complaining because believe me anything helps... I hope that you are ok - while she is gone - try to keep busy - enjoy your alone time..... You can email me if you need to talk - mimiw64@yahoo.com -I truly understand the not liking the ex and not wanting him back - but still being totally devasted that he is still with the OW....

Similar situation here; X still denies seeing OW.

If he were ever honest and told me, I would have accepted it, and move on…
Actually, he doesn’t admit partially because he doesn’t want take responsibility/guilt for divorce itself?… but more and more I think, the real reason is – he does not want to let me go… no, no to be with him, but to be alone… (' don’t love you but I don’t give you to someone else either', or, if it doesn’t work with OW, I still have that old fool... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Well he came and got our daughter around 2:30. I wasn't sure how I felt. He made small talk, looked at my car as I was in a accident and told me the body shop did a good job, told me my tires are holding out good and then told me he bought a pond and some goldfish for it.

Like I wanted to make small talk.

Daughter is nervous. About spending an overnight visit with her dad because she hasn't done so in 3 years and also meeting the OW. I told her to just be respectful and have fun and if she is uncomfortable to call me. He even actually gave me his home address and told me I can look it up on mapblast. Like I want to!

What the heck was all that about anyway. Like I am suppose to be ok with this and no big deal. I personnelly think this is all happening because 1) he is tired of hiding his OW or 2) they are getting married.

Our middle son is upset with his dad because there Dad really hasn't had anything to do with them and why didn't there dad want them to meet the OW. He then said prob., because he knows that he (son) would say something not nice to the OW.

Anyway - I will sit and worry and wonder all weekend. I will want to know everything when daughter gets home but when she does and starts to tell me - I know I will have to tell her I don't want to know. I am so tired of the hurt! And I really don't want to know ANYTHING about the OW at all.

Let me ask you! If she wants to tell me do I let her tell me - or do I tell her NO! I don't want her to keep things from me if she feels like talking. I am not sure how to handle this.

Well he came and got our daughter around 2:30. I wasn't sure how I felt. He made small talk, looked at my car as I was in a accident and told me the body shop did a good job, told me my tires are holding out good and then told me he bought a pond and some goldfish for it.

Like I wanted to make small talk.

Daughter is nervous. About spending an overnight visit with her dad because she hasn't done so in 3 years and also meeting the OW. I told her to just be respectful and have fun and if she is uncomfortable to call me. He even actually gave me his home address and told me I can look it up on mapblast. Like I want to!

What the heck was all that about anyway. Like I am suppose to be ok with this and no big deal. I personnelly think this is all happening because 1) he is tired of hiding his OW or 2) they are getting married.

Our middle son is upset with his dad because there Dad really hasn't had anything to do with them and why didn't there dad want them to meet the OW. He then said prob., because he knows that he (son) would say something not nice to the OW.

Anyway - I will sit and worry and wonder all weekend. I will want to know everything when daughter gets home but when she does and starts to tell me - I know I will have to tell her I don't want to know. I am so tired of the hurt! And I really don't want to know ANYTHING about the OW at all.

Let me ask you! If she wants to tell me do I let her tell me - or do I tell her NO! I don't want her to keep things from me if she feels like talking. I am not sure how to handle this.

Yes, you let her talk. No doubt she will have some issues over it. But don't YOU talk about your adult feelings about it to her. I was 12 when my parents split, and I can tell you from experience, telling her stuff that is not appropriate will only injure your daughter in the long run.

When my kids spend time with their dad and his new wife, I sometimes have to listen to them talk about NW (new wife, alias OW) and I do so without outward judgement. I do not put her down nor do I put my issues onto the kids. If they are disrespectful in their comments, I tell them to cut it out, ONLY because she is an adult, and I don't want them being disrespectful.

The reality is that if your kids are spending time with OW, they need to somehow get along. It is a difficult balance for you.

By the way I waited almost three years for the truth too, although I knew by then they were living together before marriage. I just needed him to admit he left us for her, which he did. The truth DID set me free in a way, because I got concrete proof that I wasn't paranoid about it all. I got my sanity back.

I hope you can move forward now too.

Love and light,

Jacky

I believe that you should NEVER order your children to respect someone. Respect is EARNED. No one deserves respect merely because they happen to have reached a certain age or for any other reason. Whether or not to respect someone is up to the children.

Sometimes, even frequently, it is necessary to be civil to people - if you do not act civilly to the police, you might get arrested, if you do not act civilly to your teachers, you might get detention, and if you do not act civilly to your coworkers or customers you might get fired. It is probably a good idea to treat everyone civilly until they give you reason not to. But there is absolutely no reason that you should have to respect any of those people if you do not choose to, and if they give you reason to not respect them, it seems foolish, at the very least, to do so.

Hi bladybug,

I think kids will always have a very strong need to be with their parents despite their bad behavior.Only until they are adults and can understand in more depth do they withdraw.Right now,your D was probably excited at the thought to see her dad after so long a time and probably just wanted him to love her,have fun with her and listen to her even though the homewrecker(HW) would be there too.She(HW) might just have been an afterthought.

However,not having really heard or seen from the Ex WH in so long and not knowing the OW I would have been rather worried at what the home situation was like.There is so much about the home and the OW you don't know,it's like blindly letting your D go into unchartered territory,you know? I would have suggested a different meeting place perhaps,at least for the first few visits and I DEFINITELY would have opted for DAD and DAUGHTER only for this time.No other destructive homewreckers allowed after a 3 year hiatus.

In my case,the rule of my home is that I do not ever want to hear about the homewrecker or her name.That is a rule I have right now.I am not D'd yet but I have already put up boundaries that I can live with and that my daughters will live BY should worse come to worse.No one in both the families accepts what my WH is doing or accepts the homewrecker(HW) and never will.That is my WH's cross to bear.There's a very good chance he will not see his family as much because of that but they have already told him that the homewrecker will never be allowed in the family or welcomed for all that she stands for and all that she has contributed to.My children know this as well.I wanted to empower them to be able to say NO if their dad ever asks them to do anything uncomfortable.

I am sure there may be some who don't agree with this but myself nor my daughters EVER have to accept someone like the HW.It would be different if we were first D'd and THEN he started seeing someone new and got remarried.If my daughters want to be with their dad that's great but they DON'T have to be with the HW.They certainly know how I feel and it's not mean spirited it just matter of fact,like telling them about the dangers of drug use.

It's my personal opinion that we are a bit too lenient on spouses that stray and expose our kids to more than they should be for *adults benefit.This is a prime example.Kids love their mom and their dad.Anyone else is just confusing to them and hurts them when they are "forced" or pressured to "like" the OP or thier parent's new "loves".It's sad but necessary if they remarry but in the meantime,it should be kids and their parents only.JMVHO.It's hard enough on them knowing that their parents are divorced but then to introduce more people into the family is just painful.That's also my experience growing up with D'd parents.

Whew! That's a mouthful.I guess I'm done.

O

<small>[ August 06, 2004, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Nelli1 - first of all I did not order her to be respectful to anyone. I asked her to be respectful of her father and to try and have fun with HIM. I would NEVER order her to do something she did not feel was right. But she wanted to go spend time with her father - and yes I had reservations about that but it was her choice and HE is her father no matter what.

I mean ok! I could of ORDERED her not to go because I hate the fact that he is living with the OW. But then she(D) would of ONLY been CIVIL with me because I did not respect her feelings on this.

Octobergirl - I did have big reservations about letting her go to his new home.

Why? Because he knew he was going to be with the OW for the rest of his duration so he should of come clean 3 years ago and introduced this OW to them first slowly and also include the older boys (19 & 18) in this introduction and I had big reservations about her going because of the OW!

But in the end I let her go because it was her choice.

Bladybug,

I am sorry that you thought I had thought you had told your daughter that she had to respect the OW - actually I was responding to Nina's comment that children should respect someone merely because she happens to be an adult.

I think it is really sad that my kids feel they have to walk on eggshells around their father and around the OW, because if they displease them they risk never visiting their father again. Getting mad and yelling at your friends may cause them to withdraw, but children should never have to worry that anything they do will cause their parent to do the same. Children should feel free to express their emotions in front of their parents.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He even actually gave me his home address and told me I can look it up on mapblast. Like I want to!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uhhhh, that would be a YES! "Parents...do you know where your children are?" I would be very concerned with exactly where my DD is and with whom.

You could have chosen to take you DD to him rather than have him pick her up. This way you would not only know exactly where your DD is and the conditions of her surroundings but you might also have gotten a better feel for your XH's SO (whom your DD will probably be spending time with BTW). As painful as it may be, you may have to put your personal feelings aside and kick into parenting mode when your DD spends time with her dad and SO. (Not using the term OW...not sure if it really applies any more since you are divorced.)

It's unfortunate that your XH can pick up on the parenting schedule whenever it suits him. You also have to be careful however, not to deny him parenting time in accordance with the decree. Whether he shows up once a year or every other weekend...unless you legally change the parenting schedule, it is a binding agreement.

The sad part is that some parents think that they actually have a choice whether to honor their parenting time per the schedule. It is even sadder that many courts agree that they DO have a choice....that the parenting time is "available" if the parent so chooses to take advantage of it.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I told him it was up to our daughter, (she is 12) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She may be near a level of maturity whereas the courts will allow her to actually make that decision on her own...in lieu of the parenting schedule. You may want to touch base with your atty. and discuss this matter.

edited to add: Hopefully, considering the circumstances and the amount of time he has previously spent with your DD, he will agree to bring her home if she is uncomfortable there. It may take a few "day" visits for her to get more comfortable before spending the night(s).

<small>[ August 07, 2004, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: ba109 ]</small>

If you didn't think I new where he lived all along - think again! I was just waiting for him to tell the truth about it...

Daughter got home around 4 p.m. Sunday. Dad and yes "OW" took her school shopping and bought her some cute things. I didn't question her. Just asked her if she had a good time. Answer - YES!

She said the "OW" look a lot like me! Just what I wanted to here! NOT! She said that she asked her dad about his having an affair. But then she got upset with ME because she said that her dad told her that it was a lie about him having this OW before the divorce. That they worked together and were just friends while he was married to me and they both new not to due anything before the divorce. WHAT! Why tell daughter that? (To hide his guilt I guess) She then asked me if I was jealous of the OW!

I start to say something about this to daughter but clamped my mouth shut. Daughter said she wants to believe her Dad but wanted to believe me too. I told her NO I was not jealous and that she can believe anything she wanted to believe. But, I knew the truth and one day when she was A LOT older if she wanted to know the truth I would be glad to tell her. I told her that she knows that I never lie and that I would not lie to her if she asked me.

She said that her dad and grandma told her I would be asking all these questions of her and blah! blah! blah!! I didn't!

I told her I thought we should not talk about it anymore and that all I wanted to know was did she feel safe and had a good time. The answer again - YES! 10/4!

GREAT I tell her! We then looked at the new clothes she got!

Well as I am writing this her Dad calls as it is the first day of school. I can see her look at me and he must of asked if I asked a lot of questions. She stated "Just a few". Then she said that I had to go into work later this morning. WHY DID HE ASK THAT of her! I just smiled at her and am now letting it go.

Anyway! My vent for the day!

Bladybug - Well if he is anything like my ex - and he sounds somewhat similiar - he has been probably telling people for years that you turned his daughter against him because you were upset that he left you for the other woman.. But we just need to ignore it - because we know what the truth is... That sad thing is that even if we wanted to turn our daughters against them - we really wouldn't even have to lift a finger to do it -because they pretty much did it on their own.. but I just think that it is easier for their conscience to put the blame on us... And it is tough when they tell us things about our exhusbands but unfortunately for us - we just have to say that is nice I hope you had a good time.. My ex was always mad at me - becuase when they are with him they come home and tell me everything minute to minute - and I don't even ask and have even gone as far as to ask them not to tell me - but then he accuses me of asking a bunch of questions - why do I ask - well I don't they just talk to me - that is the relationship that we have... So you did right when you asked her if she had a good time.... Don't worry about what he is asking her.. I to have sat my girls down and said you know what I will never lie to you - if you need to ask me something I will tell you the truth - he is your dad and you need to have a relationship with him. -- but I don't want to be directly involved - you girls need to establish that with your dad... So far there isn't much of a relationship to speak of - it has it good moments and definately alot of bad moments - but the kids have to see that they are my number one priority and they definately are not his... But anyways - what are his future plans does he want to start seeing her on a regular basis??? Have you set anything up??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Daughter said she wants to believe her Dad but wanted to believe me too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I knew the truth and one day when she was A LOT older if she wanted to know the truth I would be glad to tell her. I told her that she knows that I never lie and that I would not lie to her if she asked me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Be careful not to paint yourself as the one and only truth. This infers that her daddy must therefore be a liar if your stories don't match.

I had this similar dilemma with my 10yr old. I used an analogy that she could understand to help her understand why her mom and dad might have a different "version" of the truth.

I told DD that if we each looked at the planet from opposite sides we would each see something different. One side would be illuminated by the sun and display spectacular shades of blue oceans, with large land masses and clouds which form large storms on the surface. The other side would appear dark and cold with little or no color reflecting off the surface.

Each of us would be looking at the very same planet yet each of us would give a completely different description of how it appeared to us and neither of us would be lying.

I tried never to portray her mother as not telling the truth...only that her mother believed what she said to DD to BE the truth. In her mind it WAS the truth.

I also believed what I knew to be the truth, even though my version differed from her mothers.

I explained as you did, that it will be easier to understand as she matures and enters into relationships of her own.

I hope you and your XH can avoid putting your DD in a situation where she must decide which of you to believe. It's not her battle. As she gets older she will need to develop a comfort level with what occurred between the you and your XH. She needs to understand that there are two sides to every story and that they can differ greatly at times.

<small>[ August 09, 2004, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: ba109 ]</small>

There are conjectures and matters of opinion, and then there are statements of fact. When it comes to statements of fact, there are NOT two sides to a story. If her father said he and the OW were "just friends" and in fact they were sleeping together, which was undoubtedly the case, then he IS a liar. I doubt if anyone here, or pretty much any adult with half a brain, would believe they were "just friends" - and I wouldn't want my children to grow up to believe such drivel - either in the case of their father or their future spouses.

I would like my children to have to critical thinking skills necessary to be able to recognize nonsense when they hear it - no matter who is spouting it.

It is the parent's lying that is harmful, not the fact that the child knows about it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...her dad told her that it was a lie about him having this OW before the divorce. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...he IS a liar. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nellie,

The point is that comments like these made to a 12 yr old about their mom or their dad are not going to earn either of them brownie points. All it does is put the child in a position of choosing sides. They should never be put in that position.

No child wants to be told that their parent is a liar, a cheater, a loser, etc.

At 12 yrs old Bladybugs DD has no concept of what relationships all entail. They do understand when someone calls their mommy or daddy a liar...and they will often go into defense mode for the accused parent.

<small>[ August 10, 2004, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: ba109 ]</small>

What comes around goes around is my motto. Lies only bit you in the butt eventually. So all I can do right now is sit back and watch until that lie bits him in the butt.

My older children know the whole truth about the OW and that is why I believe the EX has not introduced her to them because I am afraid they would say something to OW. They (Older kids) want to tell there sister and set her straight about their father. I have asked them not to say anything because she is still to young to know the whole truth.

Like I told my daughter - I believe one way and EX believes another. Just like she believes her way. That it all will be real clear to her one day.

But now I feel like I am walking on egg shells around her because she is starting to just plain ignore me. I have heard that it takes a few days for kids to get back to their old self after visiting the other parent.

But I can be playing too much into that. She is going through puberity right now (God help me) but time will tell.

Bladybug-

I just wanted to chime in and say keep taking the moral high road and don't paint your XH as the liar. Your daughter is too young to understand it and it will come back to bite you. You are so right about what comes around goes around, it just doesn't always happen as quickly as we'd like.

It is normal for your daughter to go through a transition phase especially in light of the fact that it has been three years since she's been with her dad like this. Try your best to just be your usual self and she'll come out of it.

It is also normal for your daughter to want to see her dad no matter how many mistakes he's made or the fact that he blew off the visits for three years. He is still her dad and that is all that matters to kids. Don't let it get to you too much though because he may still be her dad, but you are her mom and you have been the one who has stuck by her and loved her when dad went missing. She may be excited to see dad, but she knows where home is.

Keep doing the wonderful job. This is tough, but you are not alone.

Take care and God bless!
K