Jacky,

Congratulations and good luck to you.

HappilyEverAfter, after reading your note:

"The boys will know after they meet her that they should treat her with the respect due an adult, but they will also know that she is the reason Daddy left the family and isn't going to come home. They deserve that truth.

I will always harbor some hope that he will realize that the grass isn't really greener in that pasture, only different, and that if he wants his extended family (sister and her family) to speak with him again, if he wants to see his sons everyday, he has an option. I think I will have to wait for reality to set in."

I think you are building yourself a long, miserable time ahead of you by doing this. First of you, your ex could argue that you are guilty of instilling Parental Alienation Syndrome in your children. That could cause you to lose custody. Secondly, using his family as leverage against him will only come back and bite you in the end.

I hope things are resolved peacefully for you, but I don't have a lot of hope, based on what I read between the lines in your statement.

Liliane ,
I appreciate your advice and concern. I would not be saying anything against their Daddy, and I would tell them they have to treat OW with respect. I would simply tell them the truth about why Daddy left. I don't believe that telling the truth would be considered alienating. But in any case, only my very mature older son would be told; the 7 year old is not ready for this truth.

Regarding his family.......I did nothing to influence the decision they made to not talk with him. He visited them to tell them his plans, they spent his entire visit trying to convince him that he should not do what he was contemplating, and while he was returning home, they called me to offer their support to me. Yes, I have been in close touch with them and taken the boys to visit them, and that makes them know that they can still see their nephews/cousin whether or not they choose to accept his choices. (The Dad of my husband and his sister held a grudge against some family members for decades and never resolved it, so this is an observed pattern of family behavior for them since childhood.)

As it turns out, my husband had his affair partner and her children over to visit the weekend before last. As far as I know, he has not yet told the children that he is not returning. I don't think I have to do ANY "alienating"; my WH is perfectly capable of doing that all by himself. Last weekend my sons and I (mostly me) set up for a birthday party at our house....by ourselves. Lots of work! My WH DID come to the party - late; and left early. I did not say anything about that, to him or the boys. (I had earlier let him know that he would be welcome to come early and stay late if he wanted.) I gave him party goody bags for his OW's children, which he accepted. (I feel sorry for them, the children are all innocent in this mess.) Then the boys and I (mostly me) cleaned up after the party. (One of the men who picked up his child offered to help, but I thought that was not a good idea.) Later on that evening, as we were playing together, my son said, "Daddy didn't stay long at my party." and I simply replied, "No, sweetie, he didn't."

What do other people think? Is it parental alienation if you tell a child the truth about the reason the marriage ended?

I'm sure kids SHOULD know truth, at some point... I admit I don't know when (at what age)...

It might go through phases, I guess... You answer other questions of theirs according to their age, so is telling this truth...

Until they are really ready for your true story, they will already get this PAS or not.
If they did, nothing changed.
If they did not, the same - 'because of that' did not have any impact on WS being a good parent, and truth then would be - mom and dad couldn't make it... at the end that is true indeed...

<small>[ August 23, 2004, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

Until they are really ready for your true story, they will already get this PAS or not.
If they did, nothing changed.
If they did not, the same - 'because of that' did not have any impact on WS being a good parent, and truth then would be - mom and dad couldn't make it... at the end that is true indeed...


Not sure I get what your saying, but for you to post that the truth is that mon and dad counldn't make being true in the end is not correct, because if the ws is involved in an affair THAT IS THE REASON for the marriage not making it and that WOULD BE HER TRUE STORY marriage is between 2 not 3 people and the bit about the ws being a good parent a good parent is their with their child on a regular bases not a week here and an weekend there but in the house with the child full time not living with someone else while his/her kids are left with the bs, that is not being a good parent that would be the bs who stood up for their vows when their spouse spit on them, the ws traded their childrens security and happiness for their own...so no that is not being a good parent

Just read the thread - had to find out how the day went. I'm glad WH and OW broke up so I won't have to be put in that situation someday (unless they get back together again...)

I am also REALLY glad my children are older and that they insist on the visitation being at THEIR discretion. So any false accusations of parental alienation won't stick. Two oldest daughters won't have anything to do with him and have no difficulty articulating that it was HE who destroyed their faith in him (with HIS lies and broken promises).

WH did try that parental alienation bull for a while but now everyone knows he was lying.
Also, the family counselor told daughters that she met their daddy, likes him, would like to help him, but that he won't come to counseling. She was honest with them - telling them that he has problems, that their mother (me) tried to help him but it nearly destroyed my health (physical and emotional). She also told youngest daughter that when a married person gets a girlfriend or boyfriend before they get a divorce it's an indication that they aren't thinking straight. Counselor also didn't tip-toe around the fact that what their father has done has caused their hurt and anger.

The notion, although popular, that the betrayed spouse should be required to lie to the children, to cover up for the adulterous spouse, or else be accused of turning the kids against the adulterous spouse, is VERY harmful to the children. My WH was raised in a home where he was expected to pretend he was not upset by his parents' divorce. It certainly did NOT help him heal! And now he is doing the same thing to his children, and ALL he cares about is them pretending they're OK with it so as not to spoil his fun.

My daughters would feel even more betrayed and angry if I went along with his everything is OK lie. He hurt them deeply and they feel he left US - not just me. They don't even want to hear any explanations about how his behavior is because of fog, typical for somebody caught up in adultery, because of unresolved childhood issues, etc. They say there's no excuse for what he did and are disgusted by him. Trying to get them to talk to him or spend time with him only served to alienate them towards ME too!

So I respect their feelings and their right to decide for themselves what relationship, if any, they will have with their father. Of course, if they were much younger, it wouldn't be up to them. I thank God my kids are old enough to make their feelings clear and to not be bullied into hiding their true feelings. Sure, I hope they will heal and even forgive. And I will do whatever I can to help them. But they are not possessions that I or my husband can simply lay a claim to and demand a relationship with. Their continued love and respect is something I cherish enough to not risk losing by hurting them the way their father did. Unfortunately, their father took their love and respect for granted, thought he would be simply entitled to them...

<small>[ August 27, 2004, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

No doubt I will have a similar situation at sometime in the future. It will probably involve our children, though at this time I do not see either of them inviting or tolerating OM's presence at one of their events.
I will be indifferntly proper for the sake of the children. However, if the OM tries to be friendly, chatty or in any way engage me in conversation, I will cooly treat him like he is nothing.

Congratulations, Nina, on how well you handled the situation. Now that you've done it once, it will never be so hard again.

I have to agree with HNA and MM. Lying to your kids is never a good idea. That doesn't mean telling them every sordid detail, of course. Kids are much more aware of what's going on, especially on an emotional level, than we realize (or remember). Why risk your kids not trusting you, too, when they already realize they can't trust the WS? I like how MM's family counselor put it - honest, not blaming.