So, his lawyer (which he doesn't have yet) fee would come out of settlement as well? Or just the one who initiates the D?

My L takes credit cards, so I just have to "charge it"!!!

Fogman came home tonight, so onto another whacko weekend. Thank goodness I work this weekend, so I don't have to deal with him as much.

I'm not an attorney, so DON'T hold me to this...

From what I understood from my lawyer all legal fees related to a D are "marital debt" just like anything else incurred during the M, and would usually be split 50/50 in a no-fault state such as Iowa. That's why it's so important to agree on as much as you can, to keep the fees low.

I hope your weekend isn't too bad. With my WH having moved out in February, and living out of a duffle bag and only coming home to unload/refill every few days for a month before that, I don't think I've even seen him on a weekend for probably 7 months.

Lonely...but peaceful.

LL

Hi LL,

I havn't been on these boards for a couple of weeks & find you over here.

Here's a cyber hug ((((((((((())))))))))))))

Trust God and He will bring you thru.

D.

WGTT,

Yeah, it's been sort of busy week. My brain is a bit scrambled right now.

Thanks for the hug. I can use them!

LL

WH just called me to check on his son who had all four wisdom teeth cut out yesterday.

He's being very calm. Told me he doesn't want either of us to fight about this--wants to keep it as painfree as possible for both of us. Told me he has not received the papers yet from the process server (??--so I have an email in to my lawyer).

I asked him if he's so calm because maybe this is what he was waiting for. He said no, actually it wasn't, and that he was quite pissed when he found out I was filing. Said the OW's aunt told her to be wary, because he's been helpful with paying bills, etc, and she told OW that this is not normal when people get D.

WH said he then told OW if she wanted to be funny about it, he could easily peddle her ticket to Paris (they've pushed off their trip from Sept to Nov to get a better deal, but he has put the deposit down on this one).

"Or," he said, "I told her I could just take LL."
-------------------------------------------------

I told him this wasn't how I wanted things to end up, but I feel I need to protect myself and keep on living. I told him that his having a girlfrield for almost a year has been a bit of a problem for me, and that I can't deal with his drinking. Asked him if he's still cranking (meth). He said yes.

It all just breaks my heart. I know in my mind that him being the way he is right now, there's no way to have a M. I know I'm better off to get myself away from the chaos of his life. But the love remains. It breaks my heart to see what he's doing to himself.

I asked if OW is still M. She is. She's made no moves to D (doesn't have the $), though she and her H will never get back together. They were apparently only together a little over a year and it must not have been a good one.

Sometimes I think maybe I should have held on the 2 years or whatever the Harley's recommend--to see if the A will end. It's definitely not paradise for them, though it hasn't been almost from the start and yet they're going stronger than ever.

And if I think back, WH and my 4 years of dating prior to M were pretty volatile. Yet we M, and we stayed together for the better part of 19 years after that.

I don't want to put my life on hold. I don't want to get sucked back into a drug/booze/porn/affair filled mess. But it's hard to give up my best friend of 23 years and his family whom I love as well.

For any of you who may read this who are D or are going through one, do you ever struggle with doubts like this?

LL

Doubts?? You betcha! My xWS was a typical cake eater...wanted security from me and flash from her...plus she ended up pregnant, having his child.

Let's see. I went to see an attorney. Left the office to think about it...Went back another day to fill out paper work but still needed retainer...Took cash advance from credit card...turned it in to attorney's office...called that same day to tell them to hold off on filing...One week later I called a cell phone number, on a whim, that my exWS had when he had moved out for awhile (I had noticed that the cell phone had disappeared shortly after he moved back in...he "didn't know anything about it!")...OW answered. Called attorney, said to go ahead and file...Talked with WS,,,allowed myself to start questioning my thoughts and feelings...AGAIN....called attorney the next day to put papers on hold....OOPS the papers had already been filed!!! Thank goodness...a blessing in disguise. We even worked on reconciliation for one year after the divorce...but same ole, same ole..all talk, no change. And yes, I still have a place in my heart for him, but he has no "place" for me...I am moving on with my life...dating again...

Regardless of whether you are the one who filed...and wants the divorce...it's still a "loss" and will need to be grieved.
Blessings on this challenging Journey.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> I told him this wasn't how I wanted things to end up, but I feel I need to protect myself and keep on living. I told him that his having a girlfrield for almost a year has been a bit of a problem for me, and that I can't deal with his drinking. Asked him if he's still cranking (meth). He said yes. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lordslady,

Your STBXH has known for a long time that there are three things he needs to do to make things right with you: end his drinking, ending his drugging, and end his affair. This is not confusing, nor is it an impossible or unreasonable expectation. You and STBXH can not work on or build a healthy relationship while there are addictions involved, and you know in your head and heart that this is true. Yet, he continues to consistently make the choice to continue his drinking, continue his drugging and continue his affair. LL, you may "feel" indecisive, but you are facing reality...and in this case, reality sucks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>It all just breaks my heart. I know in my mind that him being the way he is right now, there's no way to have a M. I know I'm better off to get myself away from the chaos of his life. But the love remains. It breaks my heart to see what he's doing to himself.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Truer words have never been spoken! It is virtually heartbreaking to see the ones we love hurt themselves. It tears your heart in two to allow them to experience consequences. It puts your heart through the meatgrinder to know that the one you love is losing SO MUCH all for the addiction, and they are willing to lose it all for one more high. The love for them remains...and yet the most loving thing you can do for him is to not enable him, to not clean up after his mess, and to ALLOW him to suffer the consequences of his choices. Please love him one last time and let him be responsible for what he chooses.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I don't want to put my life on hold. I don't want to get sucked back into a drug/booze/porn/affair filled mess. But it's hard to give up my best friend of 23 years and his family whom I love as well. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep. That is the hard part. Like you, I lost not only the person I thought of as my best friend, but also his mother, sister and family, and brother and family. I loved them more than I loved my own family, in some ways, and losing them because of his addictions was REALLY hard on me. I thought they loved me too, and I thought they would support me in trying to get him help and recover our marriage. Instead, they hid their heads in the sand and chose to ignore the mental illnesses and sexual addiction. I think it was too much for them to face, and denial was easier.

LL, this isn't about putting your life on hold. You were married for 19 years and knew him for 23 years. That's your lifetime!! Your life has been on hold, and for the longest time you kept hoping that the drugs/booze/porn/affairs would really end this time. I know! So, LL, your life has already been on hold, and now you are deciding to protect yourself from being harmed any longer. Now you are deciding to face the reality that it isn't going to change. Now you are deciding to accept that he had pretty consistently chosen his addictions, and you cannot change that. Now you are finally being courageous enough to change the things that you can--you can change YOUR life and protect YOURSELF from being harmed by his choices.

Keep reading this when you feel like second-guessing yourself. Inside yourself...you KNOW!!


CJ

Oh, yes, I am very sorry I (XBS) filed, I could never stop (it seems( to be mad at myself!

Not that I did but WHEN I did - should be MUCH EARLIER... Two nice years of my life, my first pregnancy, first 2 years of being the mom - would be happy part of my life if I just filed on time.

Now, I rush to compensate those two years, enjoying MY life, my life with my son, BREATHING FREELY AGAIN!

Second guessing, of corse!
I was doing that for 2,5 years, and OW came just like the last drop in my already full glass of unhappiness, frustrations... OW came in my life much earlier than I learned... I guess that was one of reasons he was the way he was... I just didn't know... and without OW I think we would finish the same way..., otherwise, I'd fight for him... and this way, with her around, I did not... and not feeling sorry either...

Dr. Phil says - file after you tried everything... I don't think I did everything... because I had no a gram hope it'll be with any success... and now, almost one year I left him, I see I was right... yes, he still wants to reconcile... but nothing to change...

So, yes, I am sorry, sorry I didn't file one dayh after first signs that he cannot make me happy!

Latest from WH: Called to give me the dates of his Paris trip (I need them in order to have the attorney reschedule the pre-trial hearing in December).

So then he says, "This D is going all the way, isn't it...?" (or something like that.)

I admit, it sort of shocked me that he even asked that. I really did think he was okay with it all. Maybe he's not. He tried to explain to me that Paris isn't meant to be this "romantic" trip, but is just a once-in-a-lifetime trip he wants to take.

I told him, it's not a problem so much that he's going but that he's going with her--that it should have been something he and I did as a couple when we were together, but that it is irrelevant right now.

Then I said (as well as I can remember this):

"WH, this rests in your hands. I've told you before, OW has to go..be done...finished...never spoken to again, you have to get help for your drinking...no more, and the drugs have to go, too. It's up to you. I love you too much to continue to watch you destroy your life."

So...did I make it clear enough? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Not trying to beat a dead hourse here but can I rest assured that this statement should make it very clear what my expectations would be to even consider reconciliation, and that at this point I can stop feeling guilt? That it really is all in his hands? (He's heard it all before but now he's heard it once more.)

LL

Couldn't BE more clear, LL. You are doing so awesome! Strong is an understatement. You sound calm today...

Don't listen to his foggy talk babble about the trip is a once-in-a-lifetime blahblahblahblah... he is looking for you to cave so he can continue to indulge in cake.

Hang in there!

LL,

You made it very clear. You have made it clear before and there is no way that he can mistake it or misinterpret it.

Let me share with you something that a friend shared with me that hanged my life. Often those who are addicted or passive/aggressive witll say "Yes" when they mean "No and have no intention of following through. Occassionally there's even a part of them that wishes they wanted to do it, but in real life they do not have the courage to tell you "no" to your face.

Soooo...do not listen to promises and lies. Look to their ACTIONS ONLY. If his actions demonstrate leaving the OW, going to AA on his own without you nagging or reminding him, and going to NA on his own without you because he knows he needs it for himself WITH OR WITHOUT you...then he means it. Until then...NOTHING WILL CHANGE AND IT'S JUST MORE EMPTY PROMISES.

Don't forget that, okay? Your boundaries are crystal clear. It really is his choice to make now.


CJ

WH is being very nice...almost creepy. I dropped off his mail and some files from my computer that were his this morning on my way to work. Ended up talking for a good half hour--again something we haven't done in quite a while.

I did break down a couple times and start to cry when we were talking about "us" and long term wherever this may lead stuff. He told me he didn't think it'd be that much of a problem giving up OW (things are not well in adultryworld, I surmise), but that he truly didn't think he could give up the alcohol and drugs. He looks so beaten, like he's just giving up on all good things.

He says he doesn't see this necessarily as a permanent situation, but he says he understands that I need to do this to feel peace financially. It's really more than just that; however, getting his name off my assets is important in the event he has a DWI accident (pray he doesn't). I don't want someone to be able attach a claim to my assets. Worked too hard for that.

But at the same time, this man I love (yes, still do) is killing himself and booze and drugs mean more to him than I do, and that is SO sad.

He is really trying to work with me on this D and while I probably won't fight to keep more than 50% of my retirement (he'll get a sizeable chunk given this situation), he is being very agreeable on other things. In fact, right now he's leaning toward not making me pay him out any of the equity he has in the house. He may just deed it over to me. That would be fabulous.

His statement: "LL, who knows what may happen in the future. No sense in fighting. If someday we get back together, it won't matter anyway."

-----------------------------------------------
So he calls me tonight at work (has called more since the D was filed than he's called in weeks). OW and friend are at the state fair. He'd like me to come see his place while she's out--has been asking me to do this for quite a while but OW is always around because she's unemployed.

I know...weird...but he was telling me when he rented it how it's this antique place in the historic neighborhood in town and I told him I'd be interested in seeing it.

Okay, so I did stop by. It needs a LOT of work, but it does have potential. He talked and talked and talked. I kept saying I needed to go--he kept talking. I could tell he really didn't want me to leave yet.

OW's baby girl was home with him. This is the first time I've met her. If I seperate out my anger and hurt at what her mother has done to my family, the baby is a sweet little girl. She's cute, and friendly, and bubbly and kept asking in baby-talk I'm not used to anymore for me to read a book, or play with her toys, or sit. I did spend a little time with her--good thing she can't report back to OW that another lady was there.

I told WH that while I'm glad he pays attention to her because I don't believe her own mother gives a crap, it hurts because I feel like he's falling in love with her and putting her before his own children. He was out partying so much of his own kids younger years.

He called to tell me after I left that she had a toy bucket on her head and was dancing. I could tell he was enjoying her, but I just think "why did he have to miss all that with his own kids?"
Seems when he calls me in the evenings he's home babysitting a lot. I think OW just dumps her on him.

Rambling. Just sad, I guess. Great conversation with WH. Played with an adorable little girl. Too bad it's all a screwed up mess. Too bad WH is living with someone other than me and that it's HER baby.

Kind of feel like I'm losing my sanity sometimes. It's just so weird and unbelievable.

LL

Oh... (((((((((LL))))))))))

I'm so sad for you, LL. He is still spewing fogbabble and screwing around with your precious sweet heart. I wish I knew a hitman so I could "take care of him" for you!!!! You need to let him feel the realness of the consequences of his assinine activities. He's still doing drugs and such AND babysitting???? Yikes!

I can feel the longing in your post today... I am so sorry.

Drug addiction is no fun... Fogman is a diehard pothead. If he comes back, there will always be the pot to deal with. YUCK! Been there, done that! I've had a sh*tty crybaby week myself, I've decided to go dark for now. Hard to get used to so far.

I hope you feel better tomorrow.

WAID,

Yeah, I know he's completely fogged. And I do feel for the little girl. She's so oblivious to what is going on right now. She has no idea what a normal family could be like, and probably never will. Sometimes I just want to say, "You know, if you guys feel so possessed to party your weekends away, how about bringing the baby to my house instead of dumping her on some other lowlife. I'll make sure she is cared for. (But alas, not highly likely. OW has pretty much forbidden me from even driving past their apartment--she'd FREAK if she knew I was sitting in it for a good hour tonight! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

OW doesn't realize as she's ignoring her DD, how fast the years fly by and how much of an impact what they're exposed to in their early years impacts their later lives. Sad.

(But although WH had indulged in a couple beers tonight, he seemed to be pretty together all-in-all. If I ever have proof the baby is in serious danger, I'll call social services. I think he does most of his serious substances on the weekends the the baby's father has her.)

As for substances, they all suck! Meth is dangerous, but weed has it's own issues. Addiction is addiction. I feel for you, too. It's hard to deal with the A and an addiction.

You're right, there is longing. I'm not sure for what though. Maybe for what should have been. If he came back to me right now, I think I'd freak out and run. I will always love him, but when he was saying a couple days ago that he was about ready to kick OW out (and her suitcase is sitting in their BR, packed, btw), I started to panic. I don't want to be in the situation where I feel like I have to take him back, because I don't want to be in a M with him the way he is right now.

A LOT would have to change, and even then I'm not sure I'd want to jump back in with him. But nothing is impossible. I'm not writing him off completely unless we D and one of us remarries.

I probably would be better going a little darker. I did better emotionally just talking to him about once a week, but we're getting along really well during this D process which will make it less painful and ugly for everyone, and also a LOT less expensive than it would be if we argue or make attorneys communicate back and forth on our behalf.

So I'm going to try and be strong and get through the next 90 days and then once it's over, figure out where I go from there.

I'm having fewer doubts about going through with the D, just more grieving over lost possibilities.

LL

LL </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "WH, this rests in your hands. I've told you before, OW has to go..be done...finished...never spoken to again, you have to get help for your drinking...no more, and the drugs have to go, too. It's up to you. I love you too much to continue to watch you destroy your life."

So...did I make it clear enough?

Not trying to beat a dead hourse here but can I rest assured that this statement should make it very clear what my expectations would be to even consider reconciliation, and that at this point I can stop feeling guilt? That it really is all in his hands? (He's heard it all before but now he's heard it once more.)

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are pretty much in the same boat. I put those same thoughts in writing to WH. I can and do pray that he gets clean and sober someday & thinks of my letter. I know numerous alcoholics and addicts that when they got sober they wanted thier wives / husbands back but they had already moved on.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> His statement: "LL, who knows what may happen in the future. No sense in fighting. If someday we get back together, it won't matter anyway."

A LOT would have to change, and even then I'm not sure I'd want to jump back in with him. But nothing is impossible. I'm not writing him off completely unless we D and one of us remarries.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A LOT would have to change to be able to have a relationship. FNCJ hit it on the head, ACTIONS NOT WORDS

Don't do what I did, let WH come back on just a promise - he took actions for a few weeks now he's back into the crap. He stays gone most of the time, which is for the best considering the state he's in.

He's torn through our finances again, now I wished I had filed a legal separation, when there was still money left. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

((((((((LL))))))))

D.

{{{{{{{{WGTT}}}}}}}

Addictions suck! Nothing more powerful I can say than that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I am so sorry to hear yours is continuing down the wrong path. I have given in and given in over my years and taken my WH at his word, only to be disappointed over and over because he didn't hold to it.

This time, no matter how hard it is, I'm planning on going through with the D unless something REALLY BIG happens. I don't want him to ruin me financially or emotionally. Even my pastors are telling me this is not the wrong thing to do at this particular point--that if he does change (ACTIONS...and for a good long time), I could consider remarriage as long as he hadn't M the floozie in the mean time.

When I first came to MB I was sort of discouraged because I thought no one understood my situation because it seemed mine was the only one with addictions involved. Not so, I am finding more and more as I post on here. While I now have people who understand, this also means more of you are in the same sucky situation.

LL

LL,

It took me a long time to really get the whole alanon thing - I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it.

Today, what ever WH does, DOES NOT affect my self esteem or my self worth. He may have brought our finances down (more than once - shame on me for trusting someone who was untrustworthy) but he can't touch my emotional or spiritual condition.


To me, it's amazing how many pastors reco or endorse DV. Mine did too, but a deacon at our church suggested I consider another direction. Each of us has to do what we gotta do.

It took a lot of soul searching, but I figured out that I made a vow to my husband and to God, and I will honor that. So many times I thought I would get a DV, but God would jerk me in another direction sometimes in the most bizarre ways. I just had to be listen, be open and obedient. There may be a time that I decide to legally separate, but I will always continue to pray for my WH. Rejoice Ministries had helped me so much with all of the above. I feel like God is saying "Trust me, focus on me, and everything will be OK"

This weekend is an AA - Alanon conference. I get to hear a lady speak whose tapes I play all the time. I went to my first alanon meeting in 1987 & really "got" the program in 2002. Talk about denial.

(((((((((((((((((((((((LL))))))))))))))))))))

We all need cyber hugs here!

D.

<small>[ August 19, 2004, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>

My pastors don't exactly endorse D in general, but are saying that in my situation they feel I'm in the clear and that it is probably the best option for me. They wouldn't say that, however, if blatant infidelity wasn't involved. They don't endorse it for just substance issues--they'd recommend, at best, a legal separation in that case.

I feel guilt in a way because I'm not one of those people who are willing to wait on my WH forever, but right now I just want away.

I won't elaborate but some things happened tonight on the phone and he was drinking and got accusing and kept saying, "Are you a F**ing RETARD???! HUH? ARE YOU??"

I don't need that. I don't miss it. I want away from it.

He, the man who didn't even see his own DD from May 12th until August 4th (and he only lives 10 minutes away), accused me tonight of never having enough time for my daughter (because I told him I didn't want her antics messing up my day moving DS to college tomorrow).

I'm angry. Very angry. I know it's the disease of alcoholism that makes him this way, but I really don't need the verbal abuse right now.

LL

oops, don't know what hapenned but posted on this thread instead of somewhere else - sorry!

going to cut and paste <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ August 20, 2004, 05:44 AM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

My xWS was an addict/alcoholic. I lived with him for two years when he was in his alcohol phase. During that time I remember saying "I almost wish he was having an affair rather than drinking and drugging. At least with another woman, I might have a chance of winning him back...I know I'll always lose to drugs and alcohol." Well, he got into Recovery (after mutilple times of trying before.)After he had in 3 years clean and sober, we married. He'd wanted to marry much sooner, but I needed to be assured that he had changed. We had some good years together when he was working his 12 step program. During our third year of marriage things started to change. He said he was working a second job at night...never any extra money from it...never where he said he was..hard to track him down as he was a painter and worked at different sites. Was going to 12 step meetings sometimes twice a day. I asked to go to the social part of his recovery club with him, since it was such a big part of his social life..Always had excuses why not... I thought he had started using again...all the same crazy making behaviors were there. I later found out that he was having an affair with a 21 yr old whom he had met in Recovery. Me and my big mouth about an affair, rather than drugs! It was no easier winning him over in this situation. Promises...lies...etc. She got pregnant...and "won". In my opinion...having a spouse who is addicted is having a spouse who is having an "affair". It just so happens that the target of his affections is non-human. But when using...they get in a "fog"..become extremely self-centered..ignore the needs of their wife and kids, look for a high, or way out from daily stresses from their drug, would sacrifice all they have built up in their life for the substance...turn their backs on God...mess up finances...lose jobs over the substance....They are just as unavailable and unfaithful as if they were commiting adultry. JMHO