Hi All, first time caller.
Where do I start?
Been with my wife for 14 years since highschool, was an awsome relationship till now, she seems to be going through a mid-life crisis of sorts, wondering about love, kids, buying a house.. and the big 3..0 fast approaching.

She hasnt had a very easy or happy childhood, a victim of a messy double divource when 6, both sets of parents didnt want the kids, so the kids were pushed and pulled halfway across the globe while the parents tried to offload them onto each other.

Both sets of parents are now in the same relationships since then, but her mother seems to be very unhappy with her life.. and trapped..

My wife has always been reasonably persimistic and a "the glass is half empty" kinda person, and internalises a lot of her problems\concerns and Ive always been the opposite and usually have to coax some dialog out of her.. my parents were incredibly loving and still going strong today after 53 years of marriage, I know theyve worked hard to be where they are..(committed through thick and thin).. so most of my values come from them

Probably in the last 2 years leading up to this, we failed to invest in right places of our relationship, and fell into the common trap of working hard all day and then sitting in front of the TV etc..
So now with my wife going through this questioning period of her life, she isnt sure she loves me anymore as a husband or the meaning of love, she internalised her concerns and stewed on this for a couple of months till it got so huge in her head.. that she thinks that there is no alternative but divource.

She doesnt have the ability to believe that it will all work out, and to commit to attempting to repair whatevers wrong in our relationship (she has no belief in hope), her taker is at full speed and my giver is working hard at keeping up, and I fear I may not if it goes on any longer. I tried to get her to talk to her family and her friends or even a therapist, about her thoughts and methodology she fought against it all the way. She's always told me that she doesnt want to end up like her mother (trapped in a unhappy marriage for the last 22 years) and I'm afraid that this is what is pushing her to divorce, instead of recognising that we're in a bad place, and beliveing that we can recover from it.

After spending some time talking and several self-help books recently (we're still on good terms considering), we analysed how we got to this stage, it was obvious we just stopped doing the little things right, that we were doing well earlier on in our relationship. But for her right now, the grass is greener on the otherside, commitment and hardwork would be too painful and she says that she harboured no hope of recovering what we had.. and that she didnt deserve my love anymore or to be treated like my queen....I asked her again to go and see a therapist, and she admited to me that she had already been to see one the previous week (not sure, (I think she may have wanted justification for her decision etc - just my thoughts I could be wrong), and the therapist asked her to list all the good things and bad things about me and our relationship, there were heaps of pro's as there was only one con.. that she felt that she didnt love me and that she didnt think there was hope in getting that love and intimacy back, so the therapist asked her to bring me in with her, which she wasnt going to do.. until I started asking her again to go see a therapist..

I know where I went wrong, Im commited to fixing it, my questions to you lovely folks are:

1. Do you believe that love and intimacy can be rekindled, even with one so depressed and without hope\self-belief? My belief is 'yes' but am starting to doubt myself the longer this has gone on.

2. What should I be looking for from the therapist when we do go in for therapy?

I asked if the therapist wanted to see me on my own to get my impressions, she said 'no', she wanted to talk to us both, Im worried that she will take sides (although a good therapist shouldnt.) From the first session with my wife, she said that perhaps I'm seen as a father figure/protector in my wifes life, when there were no male role models around, (we grew up in a violent and turbulent country..now that we've moved to a safer environment for the last 9 years, and with her considering the big questions about kids, love, commiting to buying a house.. she may feel that she doesnt need me anymore so shes breaking out, to find herself..

3. Is it too early for a therapist to be making a diagnosis? how soon is too soon?

4. Do you folks believe that Love and intimacy is simple as making a decision to do or to be?

5. I know theres a healthy alternative for me with someone else out there, but I dont want to give up on what we have, self-doubt is starting to kick in (I think the taker is making a showing) I guess the most important question is how long should I try/give before I give-up and move on? (I'm doing my best to be caring, kind, giving, loving and giving space when needed)

Apologies for the long post (if you're still reading), I felt it neccessary to paint a picture. Suggestions\advice\feedback much appreciated.

Confused,

I don't feel like I'm a pro on here by any means, but I'm wondering if your premature coming to the divorce column.
You may find more help on the emotional needs, or gen. questions.

From what you have written, I see hope.
I see you as a loving and caring H.
And from what you have said, I'm not getting the impression that there is someone else that is causing your wife these issues.

Your wife may feel shame for needing to get help from an outsider. Its hard to admit we have flaws.
I see hope though, that she has sought help.
If the two of you can go to marriage counseling, that would be positive, as well as independent counseling.
You may need it just as much as her. To have someone coach and help you through this too.

I did both marriage, and independent counseling.
You may not like the first one you see, (as I didn't), but don't let that scare you off. There are good ones to find.

Best of luck to you and your wife.
K.

thanks Karona,
unfortunatley my W's mind is not full of hope and has definatley given up on the hope that we could get any of our love back..
she wants out.. The therapist after the 2nd session concluded that there was no hope.. because my W's mind has been closed to any other option.. any further therapy in joining us would not work.. Ive decided to let go, as my giver has run out.. it was an awsome rewarding relationship... I guess I should look at the good points.. and grieve and move on.. totally numb right now.. dont know what to feel.

should add. She's so unhappy and can see her pain as well as mine, even though I love her to bits.. I can see now that she will not accept that there is away back in her current state of mind.. so after a lot of thought.. I've decided and have been convinced reluctantly to work towards a D. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> very painful decision.. )

Through all of this, I will remain true to my character and my faith... and have hope that I can find someone else that I can love and connect with that deeply again..

on the face of it, it feels like Im giving up, but I think I have to just to keep my sanity.. I have been fighting it hard.. and atleast I can say that I really gave it a 100% in the last 3 months.. she jokingly said that she may come crawling back.. but Ive resolved myself to move on once the D is finalised.

Hi CNA--

I had been wondering about you, but had hoped you would say something different.

I'm very sorry to read you recent post.
I did have hope for you and your marriage.

You will be glad knowing that you put everything you had into saving your marriage. D is a very hard decision, and to know that you gave it your all will give you peace in the end.

I hope that you continue on you own to see a counselor for awhile. It was beneficial to me.

I don't know why more people didn't respond to your question, but don't give up on this site.
There is much to be learned here from other people's experiences.
It will help you get through the bad times, and help you know your not alone.

Again, I'm sorry to hear your news.

I believe you will find love again someday. You are young, and have plenty of time for that.
I hope your wife also finds happiness. I would hope that she would continue to get help also.

Take care of yourself.
K.

thanks Karona for your kind words,
Im going through the "if only" stage at the moment .. if only I found MB sooner, if only we tried counciling sooner.. etc..

Have to look at the positives like you said I guess, Young, fresh start and hopefully will find another significant other.

Am not to sure about going back to counciling, because I felt that it was a bit of an ambush.. and the Councilor didnt ask the hows and whys of the W's decison, rather accepted it at face value.. so dont really trust it too much at this stage even for just myself.

Hi again Confused-

I think that is a normal feeling, the "if only" stage.
I bet all of us have went throught that one.
It's that hind site thing.

Maybe counseling isn't for everyone, and like I said, I didn't care for the first one I went to. I did go to another one, and liked them much better.
You know yourself better than anyone, and what is best for you.
The best thing you can do though, is talk, talk, talk.
If it's here, or a friend, or a counelor, just to be able to vent and get it off of your chest.

Take care of yourself!
K.

I am in a similar situation. It has been 2 months sicne my WF filed and 1 month since she moved. I am not ready to make any hasty decision to move on. I am trying to continue with Plan A and also being kind to myself. I have been in and out of the "if only" stage and Don't be hard on yourself.

I would consider making the decision to move on only if you have Lost the Love for her. Otherwise if you do it just because you think it will help you move on, you may have regrets.

That is my opinion on my own situation and I wish you all the best of luck..

Hang in there !!!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> the W hasnt moved out yet, it will be 2 months before she can. I still having to drive her into work till then.. its so hard, because I think of all the love that we shared, and what shes giving up on... my feelings are a mess - I go through moments of clarity.. and thoughts that I will be fine.. then.. everything comes crashing down again.. and I feel like I have to convince the W to stay.. I dont know if I should be keeping up this hope, or just let go.

we've invested so much love in this relationship.. I cant believe that it took 6 months for everything to go from perfect to here... its so hard seeing her every day.. shes intentionally being extra cold.. I think from her point of view she doesnt want to get my hopes up if shes shows the slightest warmth. Our friends are a bit confused about her behaviour, but seem to accept it and expect me to move on.. I just can't

- I thought I knew my W better than anyone else in the world .. she gets me.. and I get her.. but its so hard seeing a cold\selfish side of her that Ive never seen before.. its so hard to think that she can so easily give up on everything..

Confused--

It would seem to me that as long as you are together, there is still hope.
I understand that you say she is cold, but I wonder if she wants out so bad, why she hasn't left then. Two months is a long period of time to know someone is moving out because they are not happy.
That makes me wonder, is she really sure??
Just a thought.

I'm sorry your friends are not more understanding. I'm sure that is hurtful to you.
This is a very hard situation, and not something you will get over quickly.

I'm not sure if this is right to say or not, but what would happen if you were cold back to her?
Would that make her second guess? Or would that be too much of a game??
I'm not sure what the right answer is.

I still wish you the best.
K.

So I finally told her to get out and stop delaying. After all her negativity and stonewalling. She out of the blue sent an email saying that for now.. she wants to get out.. but her mind is open to the 'possiblity' that she 'could' come back... which leading up to today absolutley NOT possible before.. *groan*.. mind games..

I think this is her reason for all of this.. a chance to go and sample other relationships .. because we both havent had any other..

We have 2 years before we can legally divorse.. Im not sure if Im strong enough to take her back or wait for her while she 'sorts' herself out.

<small>[ August 22, 2004, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: Confused-NZ-Auckland ]</small>

Welcome fellow JAFA.

I post on the GQII board and have done since February. I was flicking through the posts this afternoon and came across yours.

I'm sorry I haven't actually read your story, I was so gobsmacked to see another Kiwi on here. I think that makes two of us on the whole board.

I hope you don't mind me butting in.

Jenny

Kiora <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Confused--

I'm sure you are getting very tired of the games, and you may have done yourself a favor by pushing her a little.
Seems like all the sudden, she is rethinking that maybe this isn't such a grand idea, and wants to keep your door open to her.

She just may find that she had things pretty good, and it is not what she thought it was out there.

For you, 2 years is a very long time.
"IF" she does do this trying out thing with others, that will be very painful for you.
Separation is a very painful time.

As always, I wish you the best.
And hey, looks like you found a buddy on here from where you live! Neat!!

K.

thanks K and MB, much appreciated,

in the last 2 days, I have steeled myself and moved on emotionally. I do get sad patches, but Ive got a good group of friends around me for support, I slept a full night finally last night for the first time in 2 months, I think I will be fine.

The sooner we move out from under the same roof the better, Im keeping things amicable, and letting her take most of the stuff.

Shes really feeling sorry for herself at the moment, because shes isolated herself away from friends and Ive also pulled away my 24/7 love and support, since I have no obligation to do so anymore.. I think she is feeling the huge hole thats left... I do give her a hug now and then just to pick her up (we were huge huggers) but I feel like I'm ready to move on and I will be ok.

Unfortunatley she still wants me to do things like help move her things out (shes taking quite a lot), sorting out her landlord references, pay her bond and settle her bills.. I still am not sure if I will do it as Ive given way above the norm already... A quick dose of reality her parents called it.

Im not taking any pleasure in cutting off my love and emotional support, but since doing that I have felt a lot better (I havent been outwardly nasty Ive just resolved to treating her only as a friend).. but I think I wouldnt have been able to do it without the grieving period that I just came through (hopefully that was the rough part - because it was terrible.. crying at every song or thought..).. it will probably hurt for awhile.. but now and then I have moments of my old self.. so I must be on the right track..I am known around the office as the "shineshine guy"... I guess a good example of positiveness winning all the time.

Its an interesting feeling when thinking that you dont have to put anyone else first in everything anymore and you just have to look after number 1. Sometimes the feelings good, and sometimes its bad... will have to see how it pans out.. but the future doesnt look so dark anymore.. thanks all.

so Ive slowly started the healing process which I know will take months or years, finally get my head on straight, work was finally coming right.. then I talk to the W's family and they rally to try and talk to the W and see where shes coming from.. showing the same desperation and confusion that I did a couple of months ago.. kinda opened up those wounds that Ive been working to start closing... everything seems to be repeating again.. she is finally moving out in 3 weeks.. perhaps the wounds are opening again because of the finality of it all with her moving out.

Confused~~

Have you ever heard in this whole mess, the word "rollercoaster"?
This is it!
There are so many up, downs, twists, and turns for your heart.

Hang in there.
You will get through whatever is yet to come.

It's nice that her family is trying hard for you.
I didn't have that support system on his side, and it's hard fighting alone.

Keep coming back and letting us know how you are.

Take care.
K~

Your situation sounds parallel to mine. She internalized things so much, I had no idea how severe our problems were. Nothing bad happened, we just stopped doing the little things for each other. My wife's afraid that things won't get better and she'd end up trapped with kids and no career. It just seems like she wants her independence, as she was promoted at work and no longer needs me. We've been together for 5 years and the last 6 months have been spent trying to fix things. After 3 or 4 joint sessions, my wife goes to therapy individually now, and says she our "emotional connection" is broken and she has no hope that it can be fixed. She says she has doubts, which is why we still live together. I want her to stay and work on things, but I am torn between asking her to leave and begging her to stay (she could not afford our house if I left).

I guess I am offering my sincere sympathies and still looking for answers to questions #1, 4, and 5, if you all have them. I wish I knew how to convince my wife to have hope.

Hi, I am feeling for you, cause my marriage is in the same predicament. My husband has given up and I beleive that God can fix anything as long as we are willing. I don't beleive my husband is willing. I think he thinks that starting over will be easier. I disagree... This is his second marriage and his parents had a miserable marriage. I think he doesn't have the skills to make marriage work and unless he aquires the correct skills he will be having the same problems with someone else. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing the same way and expecting different results. Have you read some of Dr. Harley's articles and read his book "Love Busters" Have you met your wife's needs in the area's that are important to her? My husband and I have failed to do this for each other. I don't know what will happen with our marriage, I hope it gets better and I hope and pray that yours does too. I will be praying for you...

thanks all, I'm still riding the rollercoaster, splitting assets almost got real ugly, but turned out easier than I thought.

My question now is about mutual friends. The ex has now been gone for a couple of weeks, I was living out of a suitcase at a friends for awhile, but finally found a nice place to move in. So I am collecting myself and trying to move on, but now Ive discovered that the ex is contacting all my/our mutual friends and wanting to spend time/contact with them. All of them were people I introduced her to and were my closest friends first.. how did you all resolve the issue of mutual friends? did you break away from them? Something inside me just doesnt feel right with knowing that they have both feet in two camps and I feel that the ex is just rubbing more pain in my face. My friends are too fair and loving to choose sides, have any of you choosen to go your own way just so you wont be reminded constantly of the pain? I know good friends are really hard to fine, but is the pain and memories worth it? I dont think I can make a clean break and recover if I know my friends are still talking and hanging around her and her new 'company' Am I being too sensitive? I feel on some level that by them not choosing sides or by accepting her, theyre accepting the pain and the wrong she did to me, because the breakup wasnt mutual and she did it reasonably heartlessly in the end.... comments, suggestions?